What's your opinion: parenting issue.... - GoFuckYourself.com

chase · 06-16-2005, 09:35 AM

I'm about to get divorced, and we have two kids together, both girls, almost 2yo and almost 4yo. He hasn't seen the girls, paid child support, or even called them in two weeks. I have left messages at his place, and he doesn't return my calls. I finally caught up with him today, and we argued on the phone....me saying that it's fucked up that he doesn't AT LEAST call to talk to his kids, and him giving every stupid excuse you can think of to explain why he hasn't bothered.

Now he's asking to take the kids down to his grandfather's for Father's Day. I don't want him to..I think he's been blowing their child support up his nose, so I don't trust him to care for them properly. He says he isn't, but I've know the guy since I was 14, and I'm pretty confident that he's been partying and that's why he's been avoiding seeing or supporting them-he knows I'll be able to take one look at him and know if he's loaded.

I've never been the sort to keep the kids away because I am mad...even without a court order and a custody suit filed against me I still let my son go see his dad when he was alive....and my ex is welcome ANYTIME to come see the kids. All I asked him is to call me before he pops in-even if he calls from the corner store, just so I have a few minutes to wrap up anything I am doing with the kids so he can have their full attention.

He says it's wrong for me to keep him from taking the kids on Father's Day. I said he's welcome to see them all day if he wants, but I don't want him taking them anywhere. He says I'm just being nasty because of the past due child support, and I say, I'm not, because I've worked with him on child support every other time he asked me to.

What do you think?

ronaldo · 06-16-2005, 09:46 AM

I dunno.

The most important people in this equation imo is always the kids.

Do what's best for them, even if it means swallowing your pride, or letting him look good for a day.

If you keep them away, they may resent you in the end.

If you question whether or not their SAFETY is in question, than simply tell him to piss off and fight it to the end of the world.

If you're not worried about that, then "I" think it's probably best for the kids to see him....if they WANT to see him. That's another story.

Father's day is only once a year and it's not single guy day, it's father's day because of the kids.

Furious_Female · 06-16-2005, 09:55 AM

Tough call... they need to bond with their dad before that gap widens. 2 weeks quickly turns into 2 months... but if he's "partying" or whatever, that's no way to be around children. If he's going to his father's house for Father's Day, do you really think the kids would be in jeopardy during that time? I don't know him, so it's your instinct to follow. Even at 2 and 4 years old, children are very observant. Choose your words and actions carefully, they understand. Good luck.

Chris · 06-16-2005, 10:00 AM

I would not go accusing him of doing drugs unless you are 100% sure
they are his kids aswell
if he has been a good parent for the past 4 years there is not any reason you should not let him spend fathers day with his own kids

pretty damn selfish of you

you are willing to let him come see them anytime but he wants to take them tos pend a day with HIM on HIS day and you tell him no

Great way to mind fuck him

We all know why he left you now.

chase · 06-16-2005, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo

I dunno.

The most important people in this equation imo is always the kids.

Do what's best for them, even if it means swallowing your pride, or letting him look good for a day.

If you keep them away, they may resent you in the end.

If you question whether or not their SAFETY is in question, than simply tell him to piss off and fight it to the end of the world.

If you're not worried about that, then "I" think it's probably best for the kids to see him....if they WANT to see him. That's another story.

Father's day is only once a year and it's not single guy day, it's father's day because of the kids.

Their safety is foremost in my mind..his grandfather lives right on the water and if my ex is distracted for a second, that's all it would take for my 2yo to fall in and either be in the water, or fall a few feet onto rough rocks.

However, there will be several other adults there, so that's is a bit of an assurance. I'm just not sure it's enough for me to feel comfortable with them going.

I really do wish he was responsible enough to take them for the weekend here and there..I could really use the break. I've had one weekend, my birthday, away from the kids since we split up in February. But if I have to worry about them the whole time...I dunno, it just doesn't seem worth it.

Monique Niccole · 06-16-2005, 10:04 AM

You say you want the kids to see him, then when he asks to take them on Father's Day of all days, you would choose to say "no"? If he shows up and he's fucked up out of his mind, then don't send them. Otherwise, he has every right to spend some QT with his kids.

escorpio · 06-16-2005, 10:08 AM

Sounds like you're using the kids to control and punish him. Unless you can prove the kids are in danger being around him you need to lighten up with the "I'm pretty sure..." and "what if?" excuses and let him be a father.

chase · 06-16-2005, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JupZChris

I would not go accusing him of doing drugs unless you are 100% sure
they are his kids aswell
if he has been a good parent for the past 4 years there is not any reason you should not let him spend fathers day with his own kids

pretty damn selfish of you

you are willing to let him come see them anytime but he wants to take them tos pend a day with HIM on HIS day and you tell him no

Great way to mind fuck him

We all know why he left you now.

Maybe you should ask for the whole story before you jump to conclusions..I asked HIM to leave, because he kept doing drugs. because he kept failing piss tests for DCF and they were threatening to take my kids away. because he wouldn't keep down a job. because he kept buying cigarettes and pot while we were struggling.

He doesn't beat them or anything, but he passes out on the couch while two toddlers are running around, and he skips baths because he's just too lazy to give them baths, and he will go out to pick up McDonald's because he doesn't want to bother with cooking a nutritious meal. I KNOW he does drugs around his kids because I'VE SEEN HIM DO IT! But then I was there to make sure the kids were cared for...if I'm not there, who the hell knows what will happen.

If HIS day is so important to him, why isn't HE acting like a father and visiting his kids, calling his kids, supporting his kids?

ronaldo · 06-16-2005, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

Their safety is foremost in my mind..his grandfather lives right on the water and if my ex is distracted for a second, that's all it would take for my 2yo to fall in and either be in the water, or fall a few feet onto rough rocks.

However, there will be several other adults there, so that's is a bit of an assurance. I'm just not sure it's enough for me to feel comfortable with them going.

I really do wish he was responsible enough to take them for the weekend here and there..I could really use the break. I've had one weekend, my birthday, away from the kids since we split up in February. But if I have to worry about them the whole time...I dunno, it just doesn't seem worth it.

Suggest taking the kids out WITH him AND you for a fun day. Games, the park or whatever.

THEN take everyone out for a nice dinner. Make it a day to remember and maybe the two of YOU can ease some of the tensions between yourselves as well. But don't make a point of trying to do that in front of the kids.

All of that of course, is if he's willing to do that as well. There's also no point if you guys can't stand being in the same room together either obviously. The kids will be the ones who suffer most from that experience.

Be the bigger person and you can still make sure your kids are safe.

chase · 06-16-2005, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Suggest taking the kids out WITH him AND you for a fun day. Games, the park or whatever.

THEN take everyone out for a nice dinner. Make it a day to remember and maybe the two of YOU can ease some of the tensions between yourselves as well. But don't make a point of trying to do that in front of the kids.

All of that of course, is if he's willing to do that as well. There's also no point if you guys can't stand being in the same room together either obviously. The kids will be the ones who suffer most from that experience.

Be the bigger person and you can still make sure your kids are safe.

It has actually been a very amicable separation until he's dipped out on the kids this month, so I wouldn't see that being a problem..in fact, it's pretty much what we have done every Sunday since we split up.

Chris · 06-16-2005, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

Maybe you should ask for the whole story before you jump to conclusions..I asked HIM to leave, because he kept doing drugs. because he kept failing piss tests for DCF and they were threatening to take my kids away. because he wouldn't keep down a job. because he kept buying cigarettes and pot while we were struggling.

He doesn't beat them or anything, but he passes out on the couch while two toddlers are running around, and he skips baths because he's just too lazy to give them baths, and he will go out to pick up McDonald's because he doesn't want to bother with cooking a nutritious meal. I KNOW he does drugs around his kids because I'VE SEEN HIM DO IT! But then I was there to make sure the kids were cared for...if I'm not there, who the hell knows what will happen.

If HIS day is so important to him, why isn't HE acting like a father and visiting his kids, calling his kids, supporting his kids?

maybe you should post the WHOLE story before asking for peoples inputs. I read what you posted - I responded. You didnt like my responce so you rubutle telling me I need to know the whole story ?

Move the fuck on - POST THE WHOLE STORY IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW IT.

Dont say half ass shit and then when you get a comment you dont like start going off about how we dont know the whole story

you are a fucking whack job.
Just by your post you are making me want to throw a line up the nose

jesus christ women
SEEK HELP

EroticySteve · 06-16-2005, 10:24 AM

If he wont support them and wont be responsible he should have no right to see them. The kids are young and it's unfortunate but they should resent someone that wants to be a casual "fairweather" father.

Sorry to hear that it didn't work out between you two. The kids are the real victims here. The best you can hope for is him to be a responsible adult and father. However if that's out of the question he should be cut off from them 100%. You're not the bad guy for doing that. You're doing what is or should be right.

Choker · 06-16-2005, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

I'm about to get divorced, and we have two kids together, both girls, almost 2yo and almost 4yo. He hasn't seen the girls, paid child support, or even called them in two weeks. I have left messages at his place, and he doesn't return my calls. I finally caught up with him today, and we argued on the phone....me saying that it's fucked up that he doesn't AT LEAST call to talk to his kids, and him giving every stupid excuse you can think of to explain why he hasn't bothered.

Now he's asking to take the kids down to his grandfather's for Father's Day. I don't want him to..I think he's been blowing their child support up his nose, so I don't trust him to care for them properly. He says he isn't, but I've know the guy since I was 14, and I'm pretty confident that he's been partying and that's why he's been avoiding seeing or supporting them-he knows I'll be able to take one look at him and know if he's loaded.

I've never been the sort to keep the kids away because I am mad...even without a court order and a custody suit filed against me I still let my son go see his dad when he was alive....and my ex is welcome ANYTIME to come see the kids. All I asked him is to call me before he pops in-even if he calls from the corner store, just so I have a few minutes to wrap up anything I am doing with the kids so he can have their full attention.

He says it's wrong for me to keep him from taking the kids on Father's Day. I said he's welcome to see them all day if he wants, but I don't want him taking them anywhere. He says I'm just being nasty because of the past due child support, and I say, I'm not, because I've worked with him on child support every other time he asked me to.

What do you think?

The worse thing you can do is to not let him see the kids. Unless you can prove in a court that he is using drugs, it is just heresay. If you mention to the judge him not paying child support and you refusing to let him have visitation in the same breath, the Judge will lay the smackdown on you. NEVER ever try to tie visitation and child support together. Even though he does not have court ordered visitation, let him have visitation now or he will use this against you later.

ronaldo · 06-16-2005, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

It has actually been a very amicable separation until he's dipped out on the kids this month, so I wouldn't see that being a problem..in fact, it's pretty much what we have done every Sunday since we split up.

Okay, then I don't really see a problem-of course I still don't know the guy.

Since you split up, of course the guys gonna go letting off some steam. That's normal. I've been married for 15 years and have to let off some steam from time to time.

I'll make the assumption that you were the primary caregiver PRIOR to splitting up. You're now the full-time caregiver. Both you AND he are gonna have to get used to your new roles as parents.

While it may appear that he's neglecting his duties as YOU see them to be. Have they been clearly defined? If you say you can be civil with one another, sit and talk and TELL him what you expect from him and let him tell you what HE expects in return.

As a father, I sadly don't see my kids as much as I'd like and admittedly take for granted that when I WANT to see them, they'll be there. He's going to have to make a conscious effort to make time for them, as do I, or he'll find out that they WON'T be there, because they won't want to see him.

I think you need to cut him a little slack to find that out perhaps and maybe try looking at it from his point of view. He just lost his wife, his kids, his home...his life is in a high state of flux right now (not to say that yours isn't). Hopefully he'll get it back on track, but after only a month of "Neglect", it's to soon to tell imho.

howard · 06-16-2005, 10:29 AM

1. YOU MUST LET HIM SEE THE KIDS ON FATHERS DAY even if you drive the kids and pick them up at his grandfathers and no matter how far it is. It shows him what kind of good person you are and that the kids come first..

2. Try to meet somewhere for a cup of coffee and explain the importance of the children, how important a father is, how you want whats best for the kids and that you support him and then bring up that you are concerned about drugs. Yelling gets divorced parents no where.

TondaB · 06-16-2005, 10:31 AM

There are two options here, at least how I see it.

1) You talk to your ex and explain to him your fears. If you feel comfortable after the conversation you pack a day bag for your kids and let him take them for father's day.

2) If you are concerned for their safety then you should go with them. Even though it may not be the ideal thing you would want to do, you do it.

These are your kids and they deserve to see their father. The child support, no phone calls etc. is a matter you should bring up with your ex. Don't put the blame on your children. Two seperate issues. IMHO

dready · 06-16-2005, 10:33 AM

He sounds completely irresposible and no way I would let him near them EVER... unless he really got his shit together, which obviously he hasn't.

Choker · 06-16-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

I KNOW he does drugs around his kids because I'VE SEEN HIM DO IT! But then I was there to make sure the kids were cared for...if I'm not there, who the hell knows what will happen.

If HIS day is so important to him, why isn't HE acting like a father and visiting his kids, calling his kids, supporting his kids?

LOL, you are not exactly Mother of the year yourself are you? The moment you saw him do drugs around the kids you should have left but you did not did you? You are as much to blame as he is for putting your kids in a situation like that. I've seen your type before, you want to use your own kids to get back at him. Pathetic

eroswebmaster · 06-16-2005, 10:38 AM

what does the divorce order / decree say?
Regardless of what you "feel" is right, the law may not be behind you.

Just because someone doesn't pay child support, or call their kids does not negate their visitation rights. It takes a court order to do that.

By not allowing visitation if he somehow got his life right and you continued to do this he could take you back to court and possibly get his visitation increased or quite frankly get custody.

If he is still doing drugs and you think that the kids would be a danger around him you should go for supervised visitations for him.

It will cost money, but that would be safer for your children. In the meantime you could maybe apply for a temporary restraining order until you get in front of a judge...of course using the drug issue around the children as the complaint.

MetaMan · 06-16-2005, 10:41 AM

maybe you shouldnt have broughten kids in the world with a guy who does drugs and then you suddenly expect him to be the "father figure". you said you knew this since you were 14 but the kids popped out anyway.

give him the dam kids, its fucking fathers day, even if he is a loser let him at least try to start being a dad before you drive a bigger fork in the road.

Monique Niccole · 06-16-2005, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

I'm about to get divorced, and we have two kids together, both girls, almost 2yo and almost 4yo. He hasn't seen the girls, paid child support, or even called them in two weeks.

Ok. I just noticed a few things.

You mentioned that he hasn't paid child support in two weeks. Yet, you've been seperated since February, so you're so upset that you're considering not letting him see his kids for a single 2 weeks late payment? Was he paying you weekly so that you would be able to have money every week? [I'm not sure how it is wherever you live, but aren't most child support payments sent monthly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

It has actually been a very amicable separation until he's dipped out on the kids this month, so I wouldn't see that being a problem..in fact, it's pretty much what we have done every Sunday since we split up.

Then in response to Rinaldo's suggestion that you both take them out, you said that they has pretty much been what you all have done since the breakup -- go out as a family.

Could it be that you are just upset now because as the divorce gets closer, he wants to cut you out of the activities and just do things one-on-one with his kids?

I'm not trying to be mean, but I think you might need to step back and look at your reactions to certain things a little more objectively.

chase · 06-16-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JupZChris

maybe you should post the WHOLE story before asking for peoples inputs. I read what you posted - I responded. You didnt like my responce so you rubutle telling me I need to know the whole story ?

Move the fuck on - POST THE WHOLE STORY IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW IT.

Dont say half ass shit and then when you get a comment you dont like start going off about how we dont know the whole story

you are a fucking whack job.
Just by your post you are making me want to throw a line up the nose

jesus christ women
SEEK HELP

You assumed he had been a good parent before-I never said he was. I shouldn't need to post my life story to get an opinion.

And you are the one who appears to be a whack job for speaking to me like this when I haven't done anything to deserve it.

chase · 06-16-2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrekete

Ok. I just noticed a few things.

You mentioned that he hasn't paid child support in two weeks. Yet, you've been seperated since February, so you're so upset that you're considering not letting him see his kids for a single 2 weeks late payment? Was he paying you weekly so that you would be able to have money every week? [I'm not sure how it is wherever you live, but aren't most child support payments sent monthly?

Then in response to Rinaldo's suggestion that you both take them out, you said that they has pretty much been what you all have done since the breakup -- go out as a family.

Could it be that you are just upset now because as the divorce gets closer, he wants to cut you out of the activities and just do things one-on-one with his kids?

I'm not trying to be mean, but I think you might need to step back and look at your reactions to certain things a little more objectively.

We agreed that he would pay $300 a month, but then he asked to but it to $150 every two weeks..then he asked to do it as $75 a week. Like I said, I've always been really flexible with him, so it was all good with me, however he wanted to do it, as long as it was done. In fact, I COULD have gotten quite a bit more. $300/month for two kids is pretty damn low for child support. But it's enough to cover his share of what the kids need, so it is good enough for me.

I'm not upset with him wanting to spend time alone with them. I just want to know that my kids are safe, and if he's doing drugs, I don't want my kids around him unless I am there to supervise the situation. The reasons I think he's doing drugs? Well, because he can't seem to stop. he gets into treatment, goes to counseling, etc. and it lasts for a while, and then he falls again. I think his absence has been because he's fallen. I know the same people, and he's been hanging around with the snowman. that coupled with the fact that he suddenly can't come up with a lousy $75 a week tells me something is going on.

chase · 06-16-2005, 11:11 AM

Look, I fucked up by allowing his addiction to affect my family, but i fixed it. i did what thousands of women across the world don't have the balls to do-I stood up and said NO MORE! I refused to let drugs be a part of my kids' lives...so how can you throw what I allowed before in my face as a reason to let him do it now??

It's not about the child support. I keep telling you that but some of you are not seeing past the cliche of a money-grubbing mom using the kids to hear what I am saying. i want objective opinions, and I am getting a few, but some of you are telling me to send my kids with someone who is likely a coke-head..and then if something happened, you'd be telling me it's my fault for sending them, wouldn't you?

i'm scared, and maybe i did post because i wanted reassurance, but what I consciously hoped for was a compromise. I am not telling him he can't see the kids. i wouldn't mind if he stayed here from the moment they woke up til the moment they went to bed, in fact I have encouraged him to see them as much as he possibly can. HE has chosen not to. He has chosen not to call. Had he not been able to pay the support, but had still been interested in the kids, I wouldn't be so afraid, because I wouldn't feel he is trying to hide a relapse from me.

ronaldo · 06-16-2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrekete

Then in response to Rinaldo's suggestion that you both take them out, you said that they has pretty much been what you all have done since the breakup -- go out as a family.

Could it be that you are just upset now because as the divorce gets closer, he wants to cut you out of the activities and just do things one-on-one with his kids?

I'm not trying to be mean, but I think you might need to step back and look at your reactions to certain things a little more objectively.

Good post.

However, it's ronaldo, NOT Rinaldo.

Platinum Red · 06-16-2005, 11:26 AM

ok just my 2 cents here for what it is worth, I have a 7 year old son. I have not gone to court for support or visitations though I have had the papers drawn up and witnessed. My sons father and I seperated when my son was 3 months old

I have had to stop him from visiting from time to time cause he did something that was unacceptable in front of my son. when this happens i tell my son what was wrong with it and why it is unacceptable. My son's father is just now starting to be a real "Father" to his son and has realized why I did what I did and tells me all the time how much he thanks me for it.

If you KNOW your children are not safe make sure that there will be someone there that you know and trust to watch over your kids. Call his family if you have to and say "hey listen I am sending the kids with ... can you please keep an eye on them for me thanks" he does not have to know about it and you are reasured that your kids are safe and they get to spend the day with them.

If that is not a option then just tell him that you are not comfortable with him taking the kids but that you really really want him to see them cause they miss him and that you would like to cook dinner for him or get some take out, or what ever but that you want him to come see him at your place or in a nutral spot.

take you time with it if anything happens it all comes back on you being the primary care giver and parent

for what it is worth

Barefootsies · 06-16-2005, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

I'm about to get divorced, and we have two kids together, both girls, almost 2yo and almost 4yo. He hasn't seen the girls, paid child support, or even called them in two weeks. I have left messages at his place, and he doesn't return my calls. I finally caught up with him today, and we argued on the phone....me saying that it's fucked up that he doesn't AT LEAST call to talk to his kids, and him giving every stupid excuse you can think of to explain why he hasn't bothered.

Now he's asking to take the kids down to his grandfather's for Father's Day. I don't want him to..I think he's been blowing their child support up his nose, so I don't trust him to care for them properly. He says he isn't, but I've know the guy since I was 14, and I'm pretty confident that he's been partying and that's why he's been avoiding seeing or supporting them-he knows I'll be able to take one look at him and know if he's loaded.

I've never been the sort to keep the kids away because I am mad...even without a court order and a custody suit filed against me I still let my son go see his dad when he was alive....and my ex is welcome ANYTIME to come see the kids. All I asked him is to call me before he pops in-even if he calls from the corner store, just so I have a few minutes to wrap up anything I am doing with the kids so he can have their full attention.

He says it's wrong for me to keep him from taking the kids on Father's Day. I said he's welcome to see them all day if he wants, but I don't want him taking them anywhere. He says I'm just being nasty because of the past due child support, and I say, I'm not, because I've worked with him on child support every other time he asked me to.

What do you think?

Interesting diacotomy.

After Shock Media · 06-16-2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eroswebmaster

what does the divorce order / decree say?
Regardless of what you "feel" is right, the law may not be behind you.

Just because someone doesn't pay child support, or call their kids does not negate their visitation rights. It takes a court order to do that.

By not allowing visitation if he somehow got his life right and you continued to do this he could take you back to court and possibly get his visitation increased or quite frankly get custody.

If he is still doing drugs and you think that the kids would be a danger around him you should go for supervised visitations for him.

It will cost money, but that would be safer for your children. In the meantime you could maybe apply for a temporary restraining order until you get in front of a judge...of course using the drug issue around the children as the complaint.

Hmmm logic enters in and the sound of crickets prevail.

chase · 06-16-2005, 12:02 PM

I have offered for him to spend the whole day with them here. I thought I made that clear in my initial post, but if not, I apologize. In fact, he's welcome to spend ANY day, all day, with them here. He knows that.

I will likely take the suggestion that I call his family by calling his sister and just asking her to keep a close eye on the girls while they are down at Poppy's. That does help most of my safety concerns.

I am trying to put my kids' safety first here. That is paramount to anyone's feelings, and everyone's rights.

Anyone who knows me at all will tell you that I have done my best to put the shambles of a family we had back together. I want them to have a good relationship with their dad. I want it for him as much as for them. I don't hate him. I still love him, actually, but I just can't live the way it was with him. I don't want my kids to miss out on a moment with him, but it is more important that I make sure they are safe than I be fair. I don't make accusations just to justify being bitter. Anyone who can assume that after everything I've said is seeing things colored by a chip on their own shoulder. I have valid reasons for my fears, and when I explain them, then I get attacked for them, too.

It's obvious that some of the fathers who have responded here defend their right to father vigorously, and I welcome that. But not every father is safe for his kids to be around. If you ignore that, you are really seeing the world with blinders. Not every dad puts his kids first. Some dads would rather get high then be a good father, and that is why I asked him to leave. Did you ever consider that HE is doing this to get back at ME? I'm not saying he is..but it's at least as possible as the scenarios some of you have suggested.

I'm not a wicked bitch like some of you have assumed I am because I didn't just throw my kids to the wolves. I would love nothing more than for him to get his shit straight, and take the kids every other weekend, and take GOOD care of them, like they deserve. I have gone over and above in trying to keep the connection between them strong...I bought him a webcam so they can see each other when they talk on the phone...I nixed my plans to move this summer because I don't want to interfere with him building a strong relationship with them...I drive the kids to see him when he can't get out to see me. I'm the one he calls when he gets in trouble, and I'm the one who always helps him pick up the pieces. When he got arrested last month..it was me he kept calling, and it was me who picked him up. When he lost his wallet, it was me who loaned him money. So just because you had a bitter divorce, or know of people who have, doesn't mean I do. This is the first problem we've had since the separation, and it is not about the child support. It's about my kids' safety.

jennym · 06-16-2005, 12:14 PM

Bottom line is....they are children, and they DEPEND on you to insure their safety. Only you know your true intentions. If you are just being a petty bitch (not saying you are, but MANY women are) then send his kids with him.

BUT, if you are not CONVINCED your children will be safe and cared for properly, then NEVER EVER EVER send them into that situation. I would never care what other people thought. If my daughter wants to go somewhere, and I have to WORRY about her, all bets are off. I don't care if it's with Dad, Grandma, or Jesus Christ himself. I would not send my child into a situation I was not 100% comfortable with.

Edit: I was typing while you were posting.

Hell House Vic · 06-16-2005, 12:26 PM

I'm impressed. Great advice.

ronaldo · 06-16-2005, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennym

Bottom line is....they are children, and they DEPEND on you to insure their safety. Only you know your true intentions. If you are just being a petty bitch (not saying you are, but MANY women are) then send his kids with him.

BUT, if you are not CONVINCED your children will be safe and cared for properly, then NEVER EVER EVER send them into that situation. I would never care what other people thought. If my daughter wants to go somewhere, and I have to WORRY about her, all bets are off. I don't care if it's with Dad, Grandma, or Jesus Christ himself. I would not send my child into a situation I was not 100% comfortable with.

Edit: I was typing while you were posting.

Yeah, there's also a fine line between protecting your children and not letting them do anything at all out of risk they may get hurt.

If you won't let your kids do anything because you're not 100% sure they'll be safe, lock 'em up in the house and home school them. The worrying never ends.

You worry when they go to school, when they ride their bikes, when they go swimming, when someone else is driving them around....

You take the best precautions you can and let them live. Otherwise you're kids will grow up sheltered and entirely unprepared for the real world. When they get older, they have to be able to make their own mistakes and learn from them.

They're kind of like people that way.

jennym · 06-16-2005, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Yeah, there's also a fine line between protecting your children and not letting them do anything at all out of risk they may get hurt.

If you won't let your kids do anything because you're not 100% sure they'll be safe, lock 'em up in the house and home school them. The worrying never ends.

You worry when they go to school, when they ride their bikes, when they go swimming, when someone else is driving them around....

You take the best precautions you can and let them live. Otherwise you're kids will grow up sheltered and entirely unprepared for the real world. When they get older, they have to be able to make their own mistakes and learn from them.

They're kind of like people that way.

Ok, I agree with you completely. The point I was trying to make was a little different than that. That is why I stated "cared for properly". I must admit to being a little over-protective of my daughter, who is 11. But, she has been riding motorcycles all her life (she is taught safety, and supervised) participates in cheerleading, which is actually fairly dangerous (again safety and supervision), and many other things. The key here is safety and supervision. From what I gather in Chase's post, these are her main concerns. If I did not feel my child would be cared for properly, and supervised appropriately, they would not go....no matter who it is with.

Edited to add: These children are almost 2 and 4...not even close to old enough to care for themselves in the slightest bit.

iwantchixx · 06-16-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Suggest taking the kids out WITH him AND you for a fun day. Games, the park or whatever.

THEN take everyone out for a nice dinner. Make it a day to remember and maybe the two of YOU can ease some of the tensions between yourselves as well. But don't make a point of trying to do that in front of the kids.

All of that of course, is if he's willing to do that as well. There's also no point if you guys can't stand being in the same room together either obviously. The kids will be the ones who suffer most from that experience.

Be the bigger person and you can still make sure your kids are safe.

this is a very good suggestion.

pornguy · 06-16-2005, 12:44 PM

It really sucks that most men divorce their kids as well as the mom.

Choker · 06-16-2005, 12:48 PM

If my response was a little harsh to you well here's the reason..........I went thru and am still going thru crap with my ex over the kids. A lot of things you said I have heard before. It seems to me you already have it set in your mind that you will not let your kids go with him. I think you just came here thinking that if a bunch of smut peddlars agree with you withholding your kids then it has got to be ok.

You say you have no problem with him visiting the kids at your house, put yourself in his shoes. Here you are DICTATING to him how his visitation with his own kids will be?? NONONO that is NOT your place.

I take it you in in Florida? If so when you go in front of a judge over visitation you are going to get your ass handed to you by the judge. When you start throwing out the fact that he did drugs, the fact that you had your children around a drug user is going to harm you more than him. Florida statutes dictate that the NUMBER 1 factor in deciding custody and visitation is to favor the parent that ENCOURAGES and FACILITATES a healthy relationship between the children and the other parent. The old "A child is better off with the Mother" shit got thrown out years ago in Florida.

Now if you feel your children will be harmed, then you need to call Children and Families and report him for child abuse. Catch to this is that unless he has done something to put the kids in jeopardy then you are shit out of luck. You cannot withold visitation based upon what he may or may not do. Unless he has been convicted of CP or something that extreme.

You really need to talk to a attorney and fast.

jennym · 06-16-2005, 12:56 PM

Choker,

I certainly understand where you are coming from. My ex-husband and I went through similar shit with his first ex-wife, who was a total bitch. The reality here is, IF he is using, and being irresponsible, then chances are he will not do anything about her telling him no. The only way anything "legal" will come of this, is if he is a stand-up guy, and a loving and caring father who always does what is best for his kids. In that case, I wish them all the best. But, if she is truly concerned about her kids, then she should not send them.

Snake Doctor · 06-16-2005, 01:02 PM

Hey Chase here's my 2 cents.

You need to go to the office of family welfare or whatever they call it there in Florida and have your child support done through the state.
He pays the state, they pay you, they have a table they use to calculate the amount of support based on both of your incomes and the number of kids.

If he's not paying you now you'll never be able to collect back child support if it wasn't court ordered.

Also, if he has a history of substance abuse and has ever been arrested or in a rehab program then you can get the court to order supervised visitation for him.
You can get a lawyer for free through the state or the legal aid office to file the motions for you.

If he doesn't have court ordered visitation rights then technically he has no visitation rights. I know this because I've been through it before....I filed for a rule of visitation a few weeks after my son was born (I was never married to his mother) and I didn't have court ordered visitation rights until he was 10 months old.
In the interim I got to see my son whenever his mother happened to be in the mood to let me.

As for this weekend, that's a judgement call.....the safety of your kids has to come first, period.
Just make sure it's their safety you're really looking out for and not some axe you have to grind with him.

Choker · 06-16-2005, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny2

Hey Chase here's my 2 cents.

You need to go to the office of family welfare or whatever they call it there in Florida and have your child support done through the state.
He pays the state, they pay you, they have a table they use to calculate the amount of support based on both of your incomes and the number of kids.

If he's not paying you now you'll never be able to collect back child support if it wasn't court ordered.

Also, if he has a history of substance abuse and has ever been arrested or in a rehab program then you can get the court to order supervised visitation for him.
You can get a lawyer for free through the state or the legal aid office to file the motions for you.

If he doesn't have court ordered visitation rights then technically he has no visitation rights. I know this because I've been through it before....I filed for a rule of visitation a few weeks after my son was born (I was never married to his mother) and I didn't have court ordered visitation rights until he was 10 months old.
In the interim I got to see my son whenever his mother happened to be in the mood to let me.

As for this weekend, that's a judgement call.....the safety of your kids has to come first, period.
Just make sure it's their safety you're really looking out for and not some axe you have to grind with him.

In Florida they will go retroactive back to the day they no longer lived in the same home. If he moves back in with her then she can't claim the time he was away. True that technically he has no visitation rights, but to withhold visitation just because it is not ordered will harm her greatly when the Judge does order visitation. And if she withholds visitation because of him not paying child support, then the judge could very easily change custody right there on the spot.

chase · 06-16-2005, 01:34 PM

Thank you thank you thank you...this is what I was hoping for-a discussion...

His drug problems are well documented. He has had to move out of our home while we were married because of it-DCF even gave ME temporary custody of HIS child with another woman because of it. He's failed piss tests for pot and cocaine. He's been in treatment two or three times since we were married. There was even a police report and DCF call made because of a domestic dispute.

IF his actions in the last two weeks did not lead me to believe that he has had a relapse-this would not be an issue. He had the kids for three days straight in May, but at that time, he was straight, by all appearances.

This is not the first time he's been two weeks late on child support-but this IS the first time he's been two weeks late AND completely avoided seeing or talking to the kids (and therefore avoiding me, which I feel he is doing because he knows I would be able to tell if he was using). I've never turned him away from seeing them before.

I can understand what you are saying about me keeping control of his visits..but I truly would not be insisting on that if I felt he was in control of HIMSELF. I DO have the documented reasons to be uneasy.

He does have custody of his son...so a call to DCF would require him to take a piss test which I would bet my eyeballs he'd fail. But do I want to start shit with him? No, definitely not. And, truthfully, his son isn't lucky like our girls to have at least one parent with a stable home. His boy's mom is a raging drunk and at 10 years old he's able to care for himself in a lot of ways, so I think his dad is the lesser of two evils.

I don't fear he would abuse them..but I fear he would neglect them. Not because he is a bad person (he isn't), and not because he doesn't love them (he does)...but because he has a drug problem that he has trouble controlling.

This is really one of those damned if you do and damned if you don't situations...

PersianKitty · 06-16-2005, 01:45 PM

If DCF was threatening to take them away because of his using, then I'd be fearful also. No one can walk in your shoes and ultimately the decision needs to be one you are comfortable with. I'd say tell him why you are fearful of him taking them off for the day and tell him that you'd be more comfortable if you had an assurance that he'd not been using and likely wouldn't be that day. Best assurance is yet another piss test. There are many at home drug tests available now. If he balks you'll know the answer.

Snake Doctor · 06-16-2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choker

In Florida they will go retroactive back to the day they no longer lived in the same home. If he moves back in with her then she can't claim the time he was away. True that technically he has no visitation rights, but to withhold visitation just because it is not ordered will harm her greatly when the Judge does order visitation. And if she withholds visitation because of him not paying child support, then the judge could very easily change custody right there on the spot.

If he has a history of substance abuse there's no way the judge gives him custody. Also, she'd be stupid to say she denied visitation for non payment of support....her legal aid lawyer will tell her that.

I don't see how it can "hurt" her when the judge does order visitation. The amount of child support she gets is based on a table, there's really no deviating from that....so the worst that could happen is he gets more visitation....which doesn't really hurt her, she could probably use the break.
Also, again on the history of substance abuse, I'm thinking if she asks for supervised visitation only then that's what she'll get.

chase · 06-16-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PersianKitty

If DCF was threatening to take them away because of his using, then I'd be fearful also. No one can walk in your shoes and ultimately the decision needs to be one you are comfortable with. I'd say tell him why you are fearful of him taking them off for the day and tell him that you'd be more comfortable if you had an assurance that he'd not been using and likely wouldn't be that day. Best assurance is yet another piss test. There are many at home drug tests available now. If he balks you'll know the answer.

Brilliant idea!!! Thanks soooo much, that really is the perfect solution...as long as I know he's going to be clear-headed, I have no worries about them going!

We're all going to a family friend's for the evening, but I'll check back later...thank you all for your suggestions and even your disagreements...I think seeing all sides of a situation helps you make a better decision so you all helped me!

dasexi1 · 06-16-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

i'm scared, and maybe i did post because i wanted reassurance, but what I consciously hoped for was a compromise. I am not telling him he can't see the kids. i wouldn't mind if he stayed here from the moment they woke up til the moment they went to bed, in fact I have encouraged him to see them as much as he possibly can. HE has chosen not to. He has chosen not to call. Had he not been able to pay the support, but had still been interested in the kids, I wouldn't be so afraid, because I wouldn't feel he is trying to hide a relapse from me.

My ex-husband had 2 girls from a previous marriage, and at times he had trouble paying his support like you're husband he had a problem with drugs too. When he didn't pay he wouldn't call or see his girls because he felt guilty about not being able to pay his support, he felt like he didn't deserve to see them. It was never that he didn't want to see them he just didn't feel worthy. But the times he was with his girls he was really a great father to them. I'm just telling you this to maybe give you a view of things he may be thinking or feeling.
Let go of the two weeks that he didn't call or see them, you can't change it so no need to stress out over it. Try to figure out a way to make things work for fathers day. If you're concern is that he'll do drugs then talk to him about that concern without the kids around. If you let the kids go with him to his fathers call and check on them a couple times while they're there, but at least give him a chance, you said there will be other adults there so the kids should be ok.
Also make sure he knows that even if he can't pay on time every time that the kids are still his and he should never feel like he can't see them. the money issues are between you two, it doesn't involve the kids.

NTSS · 06-16-2005, 02:00 PM

I say fuck the sorry mofo...His drug use and neglect has transformed his "parental right" into a privilege. Get a court order for supervised visits only.

Missy · 06-16-2005, 02:23 PM

Just curious how far away from you his grandfather lives? Is it close enough for you to take the kids there yourself and drop them off? You said there will be other responsible adults there to keep an eye on them, so it sounds to me like your main safety concern is the drive there and back?

I see the issue brought up repeatedly about "You have to let him see the kids". But the focus should be on the kids and allowing them to be with their dad. Maybe he has messed up recently, and maybe he doesn't "deserve" to spend the day with them at a place of his choosing, but your girls are the ones who are going to end up hurt if you continue to be overprotective. There are viable solutions to every problem, so do whatever you can to allow them to be able to spend Father's Day with their Daddy, and put your suspicions aside for them.

06-16-2005, 09:35 AM	#1
chase Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,019	What's your opinion: parenting issue.... I'm about to get divorced, and we have two kids together, both girls, almost 2yo and almost 4yo. He hasn't seen the girls, paid child support, or even called them in two weeks. I have left messages at his place, and he doesn't return my calls. I finally caught up with him today, and we argued on the phone....me saying that it's fucked up that he doesn't AT LEAST call to talk to his kids, and him giving every stupid excuse you can think of to explain why he hasn't bothered. Now he's asking to take the kids down to his grandfather's for Father's Day. I don't want him to..I think he's been blowing their child support up his nose, so I don't trust him to care for them properly. He says he isn't, but I've know the guy since I was 14, and I'm pretty confident that he's been partying and that's why he's been avoiding seeing or supporting them-he knows I'll be able to take one look at him and know if he's loaded. I've never been the sort to keep the kids away because I am mad...even without a court order and a custody suit filed against me I still let my son go see his dad when he was alive....and my ex is welcome ANYTIME to come see the kids. All I asked him is to call me before he pops in-even if he calls from the corner store, just so I have a few minutes to wrap up anything I am doing with the kids so he can have their full attention. He says it's wrong for me to keep him from taking the kids on Father's Day. I said he's welcome to see them all day if he wants, but I don't want him taking them anywhere. He says I'm just being nasty because of the past due child support, and I say, I'm not, because I've worked with him on child support every other time he asked me to. What do you think? __________________ Need Hosting? Reality Check Network services me purrrfectly!

06-16-2005, 09:55 AM	#3
Furious_Female Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Upstate, New York Posts: 8,187	Tough call... they need to bond with their dad before that gap widens. 2 weeks quickly turns into 2 months... but if he's "partying" or whatever, that's no way to be around children. If he's going to his father's house for Father's Day, do you really think the kids would be in jeopardy during that time? I don't know him, so it's your instinct to follow. Even at 2 and 4 years old, children are very observant. Choose your words and actions carefully, they understand. Good luck. __________________ Skype: j3nn.com ICQ 160370494 My current favorite high-converting sponsor: CrakRevenue

06-16-2005, 10:00 AM	#4
Chris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: icq: 71462500 Skype: Jupzchris Posts: 27,880	I would not go accusing him of doing drugs unless you are 100% sure they are his kids aswell if he has been a good parent for the past 4 years there is not any reason you should not let him spend fathers day with his own kids pretty damn selfish of you you are willing to let him come see them anytime but he wants to take them tos pend a day with HIM on HIS day and you tell him no Great way to mind fuck him We all know why he left you now. __________________ [email protected]

06-16-2005, 10:08 AM	#7
escorpio I love to racism, bro! Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA! USA! USA! Posts: 23,128	Sounds like you're using the kids to control and punish him. Unless you can prove the kids are in danger being around him you need to lighten up with the "I'm pretty sure..." and "what if?" excuses and let him be a father. __________________ Unvaxxed, still alive.

06-16-2005, 10:24 AM	#12
EroticySteve Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Sunshine State Posts: 4,365	If he wont support them and wont be responsible he should have no right to see them. The kids are young and it's unfortunate but they should resent someone that wants to be a casual "fairweather" father. Sorry to hear that it didn't work out between you two. The kids are the real victims here. The best you can hope for is him to be a responsible adult and father. However if that's out of the question he should be cut off from them 100%. You're not the bad guy for doing that. You're doing what is or should be right. __________________ You deserve to make more money. I'll help you do that. Our affiliates earn up to $3/email or $107/sale email steve <at> eroticy.com - icq 290153464

06-16-2005, 09:46 AM	#2
ronaldo Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: ICQ#: 272000271 Posts: 5,475	I dunno. The most important people in this equation imo is always the kids. Do what's best for them, even if it means swallowing your pride, or letting him look good for a day. If you keep them away, they may resent you in the end. If you question whether or not their SAFETY is in question, than simply tell him to piss off and fight it to the end of the world. If you're not worried about that, then "I" think it's probably best for the kids to see him....if they WANT to see him. That's another story. Father's day is only once a year and it's not single guy day, it's father's day because of the kids.

06-16-2005, 10:04 AM	#6
Monique Niccole Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 5,653	You say you want the kids to see him, then when he asks to take them on Father's Day of all days, you would choose to say "no"? If he shows up and he's fucked up out of his mind, then don't send them. Otherwise, he has every right to spend some QT with his kids.

06-16-2005, 10:29 AM	#15
howard Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: phila Posts: 1,827	1. YOU MUST LET HIM SEE THE KIDS ON FATHERS DAY even if you drive the kids and pick them up at his grandfathers and no matter how far it is. It shows him what kind of good person you are and that the kids come first.. 2. Try to meet somewhere for a cup of coffee and explain the importance of the children, how important a father is, how you want whats best for the kids and that you support him and then bring up that you are concerned about drugs. Yelling gets divorced parents no where. __________________ perkissmedia.com [email protected] 318621803 perkymon993 Skype

06-16-2005, 10:31 AM	#16
TondaB Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: California Posts: 3,162	There are two options here, at least how I see it. 1) You talk to your ex and explain to him your fears. If you feel comfortable after the conversation you pack a day bag for your kids and let him take them for father's day. 2) If you are concerned for their safety then you should go with them. Even though it may not be the ideal thing you would want to do, you do it. These are your kids and they deserve to see their father. The child support, no phone calls etc. is a matter you should bring up with your ex. Don't put the blame on your children. Two seperate issues. IMHO __________________ ICQ: 61462417

06-16-2005, 10:33 AM	#17
dready Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 5,247	He sounds completely irresposible and no way I would let him near them EVER... unless he really got his shit together, which obviously he hasn't. __________________ ICQ: 91139591

06-16-2005, 10:38 AM	#19
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	what does the divorce order / decree say? Regardless of what you "feel" is right, the law may not be behind you. Just because someone doesn't pay child support, or call their kids does not negate their visitation rights. It takes a court order to do that. By not allowing visitation if he somehow got his life right and you continued to do this he could take you back to court and possibly get his visitation increased or quite frankly get custody. If he is still doing drugs and you think that the kids would be a danger around him you should go for supervised visitations for him. It will cost money, but that would be safer for your children. In the meantime you could maybe apply for a temporary restraining order until you get in front of a judge...of course using the drug issue around the children as the complaint. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

06-16-2005, 10:41 AM	#20
MetaMan I AM WEB 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,682	maybe you shouldnt have broughten kids in the world with a guy who does drugs and then you suddenly expect him to be the "father figure". you said you knew this since you were 14 but the kids popped out anyway. give him the dam kids, its fucking fathers day, even if he is a loser let him at least try to start being a dad before you drive a bigger fork in the road.

06-16-2005, 11:11 AM	#24
chase Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,019	Look, I fucked up by allowing his addiction to affect my family, but i fixed it. i did what thousands of women across the world don't have the balls to do-I stood up and said NO MORE! I refused to let drugs be a part of my kids' lives...so how can you throw what I allowed before in my face as a reason to let him do it now?? It's not about the child support. I keep telling you that but some of you are not seeing past the cliche of a money-grubbing mom using the kids to hear what I am saying. i want objective opinions, and I am getting a few, but some of you are telling me to send my kids with someone who is likely a coke-head..and then if something happened, you'd be telling me it's my fault for sending them, wouldn't you? i'm scared, and maybe i did post because i wanted reassurance, but what I consciously hoped for was a compromise. I am not telling him he can't see the kids. i wouldn't mind if he stayed here from the moment they woke up til the moment they went to bed, in fact I have encouraged him to see them as much as he possibly can. HE has chosen not to. He has chosen not to call. Had he not been able to pay the support, but had still been interested in the kids, I wouldn't be so afraid, because I wouldn't feel he is trying to hide a relapse from me. __________________ Need Hosting? Reality Check Network services me purrrfectly!

06-16-2005, 11:26 AM	#26
Platinum Red Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In heart of Toronto Posts: 517	ok just my 2 cents here for what it is worth, I have a 7 year old son. I have not gone to court for support or visitations though I have had the papers drawn up and witnessed. My sons father and I seperated when my son was 3 months old I have had to stop him from visiting from time to time cause he did something that was unacceptable in front of my son. when this happens i tell my son what was wrong with it and why it is unacceptable. My son's father is just now starting to be a real "Father" to his son and has realized why I did what I did and tells me all the time how much he thanks me for it. If you KNOW your children are not safe make sure that there will be someone there that you know and trust to watch over your kids. Call his family if you have to and say "hey listen I am sending the kids with ... can you please keep an eye on them for me thanks" he does not have to know about it and you are reasured that your kids are safe and they get to spend the day with them. If that is not a option then just tell him that you are not comfortable with him taking the kids but that you really really want him to see them cause they miss him and that you would like to cook dinner for him or get some take out, or what ever but that you want him to come see him at your place or in a nutral spot. take you time with it if anything happens it all comes back on you being the primary care giver and parent for what it is worth __________________ Platinum Red any questions - [email protected] ICQ # 167818595

06-16-2005, 12:02 PM	#29
chase Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,019	I have offered for him to spend the whole day with them here. I thought I made that clear in my initial post, but if not, I apologize. In fact, he's welcome to spend ANY day, all day, with them here. He knows that. I will likely take the suggestion that I call his family by calling his sister and just asking her to keep a close eye on the girls while they are down at Poppy's. That does help most of my safety concerns. I am trying to put my kids' safety first here. That is paramount to anyone's feelings, and everyone's rights. Anyone who knows me at all will tell you that I have done my best to put the shambles of a family we had back together. I want them to have a good relationship with their dad. I want it for him as much as for them. I don't hate him. I still love him, actually, but I just can't live the way it was with him. I don't want my kids to miss out on a moment with him, but it is more important that I make sure they are safe than I be fair. I don't make accusations just to justify being bitter. Anyone who can assume that after everything I've said is seeing things colored by a chip on their own shoulder. I have valid reasons for my fears, and when I explain them, then I get attacked for them, too. It's obvious that some of the fathers who have responded here defend their right to father vigorously, and I welcome that. But not every father is safe for his kids to be around. If you ignore that, you are really seeing the world with blinders. Not every dad puts his kids first. Some dads would rather get high then be a good father, and that is why I asked him to leave. Did you ever consider that HE is doing this to get back at ME? I'm not saying he is..but it's at least as possible as the scenarios some of you have suggested. I'm not a wicked bitch like some of you have assumed I am because I didn't just throw my kids to the wolves. I would love nothing more than for him to get his shit straight, and take the kids every other weekend, and take GOOD care of them, like they deserve. I have gone over and above in trying to keep the connection between them strong...I bought him a webcam so they can see each other when they talk on the phone...I nixed my plans to move this summer because I don't want to interfere with him building a strong relationship with them...I drive the kids to see him when he can't get out to see me. I'm the one he calls when he gets in trouble, and I'm the one who always helps him pick up the pieces. When he got arrested last month..it was me he kept calling, and it was me who picked him up. When he lost his wallet, it was me who loaned him money. So just because you had a bitter divorce, or know of people who have, doesn't mean I do. This is the first problem we've had since the separation, and it is not about the child support. It's about my kids' safety. __________________ Need Hosting? Reality Check Network services me purrrfectly!

06-16-2005, 12:14 PM	#30
jennym Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Location: the south Posts: 1,622	Bottom line is....they are children, and they DEPEND on you to insure their safety. Only you know your true intentions. If you are just being a petty bitch (not saying you are, but MANY women are) then send his kids with him. BUT, if you are not CONVINCED your children will be safe and cared for properly, then NEVER EVER EVER send them into that situation. I would never care what other people thought. If my daughter wants to go somewhere, and I have to WORRY about her, all bets are off. I don't care if it's with Dad, Grandma, or Jesus Christ himself. I would not send my child into a situation I was not 100% comfortable with. Edit: I was typing while you were posting. Last edited by jennym; 06-16-2005 at 12:15 PM..

06-16-2005, 12:26 PM	#31
Hell House Vic Pay to Cum Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Nor San Diego Posts: 1,029	I'm impressed. Great advice. __________________ Contact Me - ICQ: 206851710 eMail vic (at) hellhousemedia (dot) com 'Satanism is like Capitalism for teens' - Ty HellHouse

06-16-2005, 12:44 PM	#35
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	It really sucks that most men divorce their kids as well as the mom. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

06-16-2005, 12:48 PM	#36
Choker Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orlando Posts: 9,024	If my response was a little harsh to you well here's the reason..........I went thru and am still going thru crap with my ex over the kids. A lot of things you said I have heard before. It seems to me you already have it set in your mind that you will not let your kids go with him. I think you just came here thinking that if a bunch of smut peddlars agree with you withholding your kids then it has got to be ok. You say you have no problem with him visiting the kids at your house, put yourself in his shoes. Here you are DICTATING to him how his visitation with his own kids will be?? NONONO that is NOT your place. I take it you in in Florida? If so when you go in front of a judge over visitation you are going to get your ass handed to you by the judge. When you start throwing out the fact that he did drugs, the fact that you had your children around a drug user is going to harm you more than him. Florida statutes dictate that the NUMBER 1 factor in deciding custody and visitation is to favor the parent that ENCOURAGES and FACILITATES a healthy relationship between the children and the other parent. The old "A child is better off with the Mother" shit got thrown out years ago in Florida. Now if you feel your children will be harmed, then you need to call Children and Families and report him for child abuse. Catch to this is that unless he has done something to put the kids in jeopardy then you are shit out of luck. You cannot withold visitation based upon what he may or may not do. Unless he has been convicted of CP or something that extreme. You really need to talk to a attorney and fast. __________________ ICQ me lets make a deal 116894466 Need dating, cam, or tube traffic? I got it.http://http://www.chokertraffic.com The Original http://www.chokertraffic.com/ Premium country pop-unders from $1.50 per k. I challenge you to compare this traffic to any other brokers. http://www.chokertraffic.com/public/tabs.php?t=o

06-16-2005, 12:56 PM	#37
jennym Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Location: the south Posts: 1,622	Choker, I certainly understand where you are coming from. My ex-husband and I went through similar shit with his first ex-wife, who was a total bitch. The reality here is, IF he is using, and being irresponsible, then chances are he will not do anything about her telling him no. The only way anything "legal" will come of this, is if he is a stand-up guy, and a loving and caring father who always does what is best for his kids. In that case, I wish them all the best. But, if she is truly concerned about her kids, then she should not send them.

06-16-2005, 01:02 PM	#38
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	Hey Chase here's my 2 cents. You need to go to the office of family welfare or whatever they call it there in Florida and have your child support done through the state. He pays the state, they pay you, they have a table they use to calculate the amount of support based on both of your incomes and the number of kids. If he's not paying you now you'll never be able to collect back child support if it wasn't court ordered. Also, if he has a history of substance abuse and has ever been arrested or in a rehab program then you can get the court to order supervised visitation for him. You can get a lawyer for free through the state or the legal aid office to file the motions for you. If he doesn't have court ordered visitation rights then technically he has no visitation rights. I know this because I've been through it before....I filed for a rule of visitation a few weeks after my son was born (I was never married to his mother) and I didn't have court ordered visitation rights until he was 10 months old. In the interim I got to see my son whenever his mother happened to be in the mood to let me. As for this weekend, that's a judgement call.....the safety of your kids has to come first, period. Just make sure it's their safety you're really looking out for and not some axe you have to grind with him. __________________ sig too big

06-16-2005, 01:34 PM	#40
chase Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,019	Thank you thank you thank you...this is what I was hoping for-a discussion... His drug problems are well documented. He has had to move out of our home while we were married because of it-DCF even gave ME temporary custody of HIS child with another woman because of it. He's failed piss tests for pot and cocaine. He's been in treatment two or three times since we were married. There was even a police report and DCF call made because of a domestic dispute. IF his actions in the last two weeks did not lead me to believe that he has had a relapse-this would not be an issue. He had the kids for three days straight in May, but at that time, he was straight, by all appearances. This is not the first time he's been two weeks late on child support-but this IS the first time he's been two weeks late AND completely avoided seeing or talking to the kids (and therefore avoiding me, which I feel he is doing because he knows I would be able to tell if he was using). I've never turned him away from seeing them before. I can understand what you are saying about me keeping control of his visits..but I truly would not be insisting on that if I felt he was in control of HIMSELF. I DO have the documented reasons to be uneasy. He does have custody of his son...so a call to DCF would require him to take a piss test which I would bet my eyeballs he'd fail. But do I want to start shit with him? No, definitely not. And, truthfully, his son isn't lucky like our girls to have at least one parent with a stable home. His boy's mom is a raging drunk and at 10 years old he's able to care for himself in a lot of ways, so I think his dad is the lesser of two evils. I don't fear he would abuse them..but I fear he would neglect them. Not because he is a bad person (he isn't), and not because he doesn't love them (he does)...but because he has a drug problem that he has trouble controlling. This is really one of those damned if you do and damned if you don't situations... __________________ Need Hosting? Reality Check Network services me purrrfectly!

06-16-2005, 01:45 PM	#41
PersianKitty Meow Media Inc. Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: In the valley of the sun, cactus, tacos, tequila, and nod Posts: 7,785	If DCF was threatening to take them away because of his using, then I'd be fearful also. No one can walk in your shoes and ultimately the decision needs to be one you are comfortable with. I'd say tell him why you are fearful of him taking them off for the day and tell him that you'd be more comfortable if you had an assurance that he'd not been using and likely wouldn't be that day. Best assurance is yet another piss test. There are many at home drug tests available now. If he balks you'll know the answer. __________________ Wondering what webmaster programs PK uses? Check them out here!

06-16-2005, 02:00 PM	#45
NTSS Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Da Hood Posts: 5,688	I say fuck the sorry mofo...His drug use and neglect has transformed his "parental right" into a privilege. Get a court order for supervised visits only. __________________ ICQ: 150-803-430 Email: marketing7(at)cox(dot)net

06-16-2005, 02:23 PM	#46
Missy FLASHCA$H.COM Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: In my skin Posts: 1,257	Just curious how far away from you his grandfather lives? Is it close enough for you to take the kids there yourself and drop them off? You said there will be other responsible adults there to keep an eye on them, so it sounds to me like your main safety concern is the drive there and back? I see the issue brought up repeatedly about "You have to let him see the kids". But the focus should be on the kids and allowing them to be with their dad. Maybe he has messed up recently, and maybe he doesn't "deserve" to spend the day with them at a place of his choosing, but your girls are the ones who are going to end up hurt if you continue to be overprotective. There are viable solutions to every problem, so do whatever you can to allow them to be able to spend Father's Day with their Daddy, and put your suspicions aside for them.