Key elements to successful design - GoFuckYourself.com

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 02:20 AM

does your designer know them? Does your designer know how to employ them? Do YOU know them, so that you know what to look for?

I'm not talking about fancy effects and filters in PS.... those are tactics. I'm talking about strategy. Do you know what strategy and tactics are, and the difference between them?

Used to be the term "professional" actually meant something. Now it seems like it's been reduced to a catch phrase for every hack kid out there with PS v.Kazaa. But very few actually know anything remotely resembling professional production.

it saddens me. No one has any damn pride in the work anymore.

anyway... just some random thoughts... I'm going nowhere with this. Feel free to contribute or ignore.

twistyneck · 12-04-2003, 02:23 AM

All I know is this - A site does not have to be fancy to convert. It also helps if you have a clue as to what you are selling and who you are selling to.

12-04-2003, 02:24 AM

As long as the product attracts and sells... that's what it's about, right?

Now, does it have to have to be professional in order to sell?

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by twistyneck
All I know is this - A site does not have to be fancy to convert. It also helps if you have a clue as to what you are selling and who you are selling to.

yeah... correct on both accounts.

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Equinox
As long as the product attracts and sells... that's what it's about, right?

Now, does it have to have to be professional in order to sell?

no...

and no.

12-04-2003, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

no...

why is that?

You just nodded to tneck's remark that a design doesn't have to be fancy. I mean the same thing. It doesn't have to have bells and whistles in order to attract the target and sell.

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Equinox

why is that?

You just nodded to tneck's remark that a design doesn't have to be fancy. I mean the same thing. It doesn't have to have bells and whistles in order to attract the target and sell.

you oversimplified both of your questions. This is partly what I'm talking about... you use the word "professional" to mean "fancy".... that is not at all what "professional" means. This is the dumbing down of a good term. You've reduced it to some derogatory catch phrase.

eroswebmaster · 12-04-2003, 02:34 AM

I don't know much about paysite designs as I haven't spent a whole lot of time doing them...but as far as gallery designs one of the most important things I've tried to incorporate is flow.

I try to make sure that the surfers eyes follow the entire page working it from left to right.

I try to make sure that I keep them on that page for as long as possible clicking..how? By cropping the thumbs..using a bit of seduction...the longer they stay on a page the more often their eyes see the ad the better chance of them clicking through.

I do my best to make sure that the next outgoing link is always visible above the bottom of the browser...if not I try to make sure that there's something that teases them to scroll down to see what else is there.

Just a few basic things I do...don't know if that means I understand what the key elements of design are or not...oh well just my 2 pesos ;)

johnbosh · 12-04-2003, 02:36 AM

it must look smooooth

$5 submissions · 12-04-2003, 02:37 AM

Interesting.

This does raise possibilities.

What if Behavioral modeling and buying psychological clinical statistics were applied to website design (not just paysites) perhaps this would EXPLODE conversion rates.

There's statistical tools and software available. The only problem is design is very manually intensive. It does raise possibilities.....

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
I don't know much about paysite designs as I haven't spent a whole lot of time doing them...but as far as gallery designs one of the most important things I've tried to incorporate is flow.

I try to make sure that the surfers eyes follow the entire page working it from left to right.

I try to make sure that I keep them on that page for as long as possible clicking..how? By cropping the thumbs..using a bit of seduction...the longer they stay on a page the more often their eyes see the ad the better chance of them clicking through.

I do my best to make sure that the next outgoing link is always visible above the bottom of the browser...if not I try to make sure that there's something that teases them to scroll down to see what else is there.

Just a few basic things I do...don't know if that means I understand what the key elements of design are or not...oh well just my 2 pesos ;)

all good and well, but those are specifics... tactics.

Key elements come before tactics. In the world of production, you start with a plan... a concept... a blueprint.... a strategy. And there are very base level key elements that go into every piece. Inherent and part of the foundation of your strategy. They may fluctuate slightly depending on the end goal, but not much.

And none of this has anything to do with being "fancy" or not. Fancy only comes into play with your tactics. This is where alot of people get confused.

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 02:48 AM

ahh fuck it. I'm only going to end up disappointed with the outcome of this.

I'm abandoning my thread.

$5 submissions · 12-04-2003, 02:54 AM

Good thread, AMP.

This does illustrate the fact that Successful design online is STILL more of an art than a science. Even with our ability to count hits, project hits, create user behavioral profiles, most sites seem unwilling or unable to take the next step. Maybe it's cost. Maybe it's just habit. But, maybe, with the Internet enabling such venture, we may be headed to reduce much (not all) of design to a science of hit forecasting/site assessment and dynamically reconfiguring campaigns to match the behavior of the surfer.

Broadvision had a hamfisted version of this.

Digital Impact tried to do this with email.

I think there's something here.... its the Holy Grail. Will take a lot of mockups and studies... but with enough cheap human labor along with precision tracking, I think this can be blown wide open!

twistyneck · 12-04-2003, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
ahh fuck it. I'm only going to end up disappointed with the outcome of this.

I'm abandoning my thread.

This is the best thread you've started in months. I think most people just don't get it - you need to put some heart into your sites. My 10 minute sites don't sell for shit, my profesionally made sites don't sell for shit but the ones that I did myself and really, really like to work on kick ass.

You can do everything perfect and never make a dime for the simple reason that you don't care about what you are doing and the surfers pick up on that. There are exceptions on either side of this discussion of course, I'm just speaking in general terms.

Roald · 12-04-2003, 02:59 AM

Well Amp, to be honest I like your designs a lot. But when I look at some of them I think the surfer will be overwhelmed a bit and don't know where to look and click. How do you handle this, like with the party sites you made. They look great but very very busy and lots of eyecandy. Do you just hope the surfer will click on the join?

Let me into the head of Amp lol

eroswebmaster · 12-04-2003, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

all good and well, but those are specifics... tactics.

Key elements come before tactics. In the world of production, you start with a plan... a concept... a blueprint.... a strategy. And there are very base level key elements that go into every piece. Inherent and part of the foundation of your strategy. They may fluctuate slightly depending on the end goal, but not much.

And none of this has anything to do with being "fancy" or not. Fancy only comes into play with your tactics. This is where alot of people get confused.

Well after reading your initial post I honestly don't see what you're getting at.

you say to put text in a certain spot or a pic in a certain spot are just "tactics," when I see it as part of the strategy.

A tactic in my opinion would be flashing text..but where you place that flashing text is strategy...not a tactic.

eroswebmaster · 12-04-2003, 03:02 AM

And let me restate what I have stated before...I do not consider myself a "designer."

I'm a gallery maker...that's it. I try to be the best gallery maker I can be...I aspire to be a "designer," but have a lot to learn and I know that.

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 03:13 AM

alright....

I wanna say I am not trying to come off as condescending, and I fear that is how it's gonna be taken. That said...

your strategy is your overall plan. In a nutshell. Your tactics are the techniques you use to execute that plan.

Breaking it down, too many people focus only on the tactics, and forge ahead with no strategy. Relying on the tactics to carry them through to some sort of miraculous success. It doesn't work. And if it does, on rare occasion, it's almost always very short term.

Now... your strategy. What is it? What are you trying to do? "I wanna make buttloads of green!" is not a strategy.

to be continued...

Pad · 12-04-2003, 03:15 AM

All you need to do is intriuge your visitor..

Don't correct my spelling, it's early

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pad
All you need to do is intriuge your visitor..

wrong.

not entirely wrong, but I would hardly say that's ALL you need to do.

eroswebmaster · 12-04-2003, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

to be continued...

chemicaleyes · 12-04-2003, 03:19 AM

Quote:

This is the best thread you've started in months.

twistyneck · 12-04-2003, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
Now... your strategy. What is it? What are you trying to do? "I wanna make buttloads of green!" is not a strategy.

to be continued...

My strategy then is to try to convince the surfer that I have the best site in my niche in the world.

Roald · 12-04-2003, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuaShe
Well Amp, to be honest I like your designs a lot. But when I look at some of them I think the surfer will be overwhelmed a bit and don't know where to look and click. How do you handle this, like with the party sites you made. They look great but very very busy and lots of eyecandy. Do you just hope the surfer will click on the join?

Let me into the head of Amp lol

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 03:32 AM

back to your strategy... (and this applies to more than just porn sites, but that's another discussion)

Your strategy is multi-leveled.

Level 1: You need to define what your base goal is. This takes thinking and decisions on your part. Set your goal. Is your goal to retain loyal customers for as long as possible? Is your goal to suck 'em in en masse and be done with them? There are many different avenues to go... the first decision is which one. (for a particular job of course... one can have many different strategies in place simultaneously as well)

Level 2: what type of environment are you trying to create? A familiar, secure, personal one? A warehouse? A revolving door? Subdued, private, & one on one or loud, public, & busy? Will it be a stand alone or supporting part of a network (family)?

which brings you to Level 3: (notice you're gradually getting more detailed as you go. Start with nothing, and build on the base)
Depending on the choices you've made so far, you need to decide if (and how) it needs to be branded. Branding (or not branding) is a key element. And it needs to be very well thought out. It can make or break you. If you chose stand alone, branding can be done certain ways. If you chose network element, branding takes a different approach. However you go, it needs to be a top concern.

to be continued...

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 03:47 AM

this is all very condensed of course... it's alot of damn typing.

a little more about branding...
you may or may not need it. And anywhere in between. An example would be if you choose a quick buck/revolving door type plan, with a domain like www.she'sgothugefreakytitsandilovetoslidemycockbetweenthe m.com obviously your branding is going to be minimal if any. If you got something like Playboy or Hustler, it will be heavily branded. You want people to remember it and associate it with all the elements of your marketing approach. Branding is part of your strategy and affects your tactics.

It's kind of hard to think of everything in bits and pieces.... it needs to really be envisioned as a whole. Everything in some way impacts on the other.

The Truth Hurts · 12-04-2003, 03:58 AM

the key is not just knowing the elements it's balancing them.

most, if not all the designers that could do this properly are long gone.

none of the new breed of low rent jock riders even come close.

most of the brilliant designers graphically speaking, whether it's one guy or 20 monkeys locked in a room whipping out a thousand variations of the same tour, couldn't sell water in the desert. Thus, they churn out pretty sites that convert for shit.

then there's the salesman who thinks he's also a designer, with fancy spreadsheets, guarantees, and statistics, which are all quite humerous, who churn out some of the most hideous designs you'll ever lay eyes on, and still manage to convert like shit.

learn the keys, balance them, make your money quickly, cause in no time at all, someone is going to take your ideas, strip them down and sell the parts, and do it for half what you do.

iroc409 · 12-04-2003, 03:58 AM

all good points, even for not-designers.

these are things to think about when you're building your site, but hiring out the creative work. if you do bring your own vision to the designer, this stuff needs to be thought out. especially when you're looking to network and tie things together in one big happy family.

a designer needs to bring in their own experience, skills, strategies and style and tie it in with the client's vision.

but a lot of that has to do with the communication between the designer and client in the initial stages of a project (well, all stages, but it really helps if it's set clearly in the beginning).

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 04:06 AM

Next you start getting into deeper specifics.... name selection, options for expansion (or not), etc. And these things all hinge on the choices you've already made. The idea is to build your strategy into a well refined plan before you ever crack open the PS. You gotta know what you're doing before you do it.

Without naming names, I know a certain "designer" that's no longer around that employed the approach of "opening up Photoshop, throwing a bunch of shit out there, and see what sticks" method. I don't know if he was serious... odds are he was.... but it sounds pretty scary to me.

These things are your key elements (and some others I've glossed over). How can anyone build a site without having a solid plan of attack? Mystifies me daily.

Once you got your plan, you can go to work building. Your plan may change during development, but at least you always have blueprints with which to work from. The rest is just putting it into action. The tactics. And that's more detailed than I have time to get into tonight.

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 04:07 AM

and obviously for designers for hire, alot of these choices are made for you already...

The Truth Hurts · 12-04-2003, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iroc409

a designer needs to bring in their own experience, skills, strategies and style and tie it in with the client's vision.

sometimes the client has no vision, no direction, and no input to offer whatsoever, saying things like "I need a pimp ass design for this dope ass idea", and the idea turns out to be so lame that you'd just assume bash yourself in the head with a brick.

iroc409 · 12-04-2003, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
Once you got your plan, you can go to work building. Your plan may change during development, but at least you always have blueprints with which to work from.

undoubtedly the most important part of anything, definitely not porn specific. doesn't matter if it's a gfy smiley or a porn site, knowing what you're building is step 1.

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iroc409

undoubtedly the most important part of anything, definitely not porn specific. doesn't matter if it's a gfy smiley or a porn site, knowing what you're building is step 1.

pretty amazing how many build whole sites with no plan though. I see it here all the time. And they are always wondering why they aren't making any money.

iroc409 · 12-04-2003, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Truth Hurts

sometimes the client has no vision, no direction, and no input to offer whatsoever, saying things like "I need a pimp ass design for this dope ass idea", and the idea turns out to be so lame that you'd just assume bash yourself in the head with a brick.

this is completely true. the designer needs to be able to do these things as well. this is where experience with traffic, designs, etc comes into play.

it's a lot more difficult tho when you don't know how the site is going to be marketed, who it's going to be marketed to, etc, and i do think the client needs to think about these types of things.

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 04:18 AM

and this brings me back to my original post....

too many people have the impression that you can just slap together a bunch of "fancy" graphics, put it on the Net, and they will come. And it's being dubbed "professional" design. Makes me sick to see the word bastardized like that. Too many scam artists and teenagers running around proclaiming to be "professional" has destoyed the integrity of the word.

The vast majority of them haven't got the slightest damn idea what goes into successful production.

The Truth Hurts · 12-04-2003, 04:20 AM

then again, overthinking things can basically kill a designers career.

Smokey The Bear · 12-04-2003, 04:22 AM

I like eye candy , it shows me someone has time and money

When i was on 14.4 it was a piss off

iroc409 · 12-04-2003, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

pretty amazing how many build whole sites with no plan though. I see it here all the time. And they are always wondering why they aren't making any money.

that's quite unfotunate. there's several things that i think need to be decided before a design begins, wether a client or designer decides these things.

for myself, my #1 tool that i use is not photoshop. it's legal pads, and i go through them like crazy. everything goes there first, no questions asked, with the exception of using my past work for visual reference.

everything from layouts to notes to bookmarks, that's where they're at.

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iroc409

that's quite unfotunate. there's several things that i think need to be decided before a design begins, wether a client or designer decides these things.

for myself, my #1 tool that i use is not photoshop. it's legal pads, and i go through them like crazy. everything goes there first, no questions asked, with the exception of using my past work for visual reference.

everything from layouts to notes to bookmarks, that's where they're at.

same here.... I have one of those jumbo size post it pads. I scribble everything on there.

But I should say that most of the strategic decisions are made by the program/site owner, not the designer in most cases unless he is also the owner. When the client has no clue, that's when trouble starts.

Smokey The Bear · 12-04-2003, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

same here.... I have one of those jumbo size post it pads. I scribble everything on there.

But I should say that most of the strategic decisions are made by the program/site owner, not the designer in most cases unless he is also the owner. When the client has no clue, that's when trouble starts.

Note to self * get some jumbo note pads.

I always run out , i resort to having to remember things , my head is so full off passwords and number combo's everytime i create a new one , one of them gets pushed back out.

iroc409 · 12-04-2003, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

same here.... I have one of those jumbo size post it pads. I scribble everything on there.

But I should say that most of the strategic decisions are made by the program/site owner, not the designer in most cases unless he is also the owner. When the client has no clue, that's when trouble starts.

i keep telling myself to buy some post-it notes (the little ones) next time i get supplies. but usually when i do that, my monitor gets covered in little notes, lol.

i can deal with it if they don't know what they want stuff to look like, that's not as much of a problem.

the problem lies in the fundamentals of the site. things like how they're going to promote the site (who to/how it's going to be marketed), that sort of thing. then it's pretty much shooting blind.

but, what is important for a designer is research. not to duplicate others, but to find out what works, what doesn't. sure, you can waste a few hours doing that, but it's time well spent.

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iroc409

the problem lies in the fundamentals of the site. things like how they're going to promote the site (who to/how it's going to be marketed), that sort of thing. then it's pretty much shooting blind.

but, what is important for a designer is research. not to duplicate others, but to find out what works, what doesn't. sure, you can waste a few hours doing that, but it's time well spent.

exactly... that's what it all boils down to. The designer needs to know the purpose and the premise of the site, more than "I wanna get rich!" (and the marketing doesn't hurt either) then you can build it well.

iroc409 · 12-04-2003, 04:48 AM

oops... i made a typo in my post. when i said shooting blindly, i meant without knowing the target audience. although i'm sure you know what i meant.

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Truth Hurts
then again, overthinking things can basically kill a designers career.

overthinking is the enemy!

I battle it constantly.

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuaShe
Well Amp, to be honest I like your designs a lot. But when I look at some of them I think the surfer will be overwhelmed a bit and don't know where to look and click. How do you handle this, like with the party sites you made. They look great but very very busy and lots of eyecandy. Do you just hope the surfer will click on the join?

Let me into the head of Amp lol

any site specifically?

I have a sort of a different take on party style sites. Rather not give out specifics here though.

Roald · 12-04-2003, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

any site specifically?

I have a sort of a different take on party style sites. Rather not give out specifics here though.

Something like this: http://tour.wildandready.com/nc.html

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuaShe

Something like this: http://tour.wildandready.com/nc.html

yeah... that's some serious overkill there. But not my work bro.

Roald · 12-04-2003, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

yeah... that's some serious overkill there. But not my work bro.

Not your work?? I was damn sure you made that one????

Amputate Your Head · 12-04-2003, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuaShe

Not your work?? I was damn sure you made that one????

nope... that one is a product of the infamous pensfan.

Roald · 12-04-2003, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

nope... that one is a product of the infamous pensfan.

Strange, well ok sorry bout that ;)

12-04-2003, 02:34 AM	#8
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	I don't know much about paysite designs as I haven't spent a whole lot of time doing them...but as far as gallery designs one of the most important things I've tried to incorporate is flow. I try to make sure that the surfers eyes follow the entire page working it from left to right. I try to make sure that I keep them on that page for as long as possible clicking..how? By cropping the thumbs..using a bit of seduction...the longer they stay on a page the more often their eyes see the ad the better chance of them clicking through. I do my best to make sure that the next outgoing link is always visible above the bottom of the browser...if not I try to make sure that there's something that teases them to scroll down to see what else is there. Just a few basic things I do...don't know if that means I understand what the key elements of design are or not...oh well just my 2 pesos ;) __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

12-04-2003, 02:37 AM	#10
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	Interesting. This does raise possibilities. What if Behavioral modeling and buying psychological clinical statistics were applied to website design (not just paysites) perhaps this would EXPLODE conversion rates. There's statistical tools and software available. The only problem is design is very manually intensive. It does raise possibilities..... __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

12-04-2003, 02:48 AM	#12
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	ahh fuck it. I'm only going to end up disappointed with the outcome of this. I'm abandoning my thread. __________________ SIG TOO BIG

12-04-2003, 02:54 AM	#13
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	Good thread, AMP. This does illustrate the fact that Successful design online is STILL more of an art than a science. Even with our ability to count hits, project hits, create user behavioral profiles, most sites seem unwilling or unable to take the next step. Maybe it's cost. Maybe it's just habit. But, maybe, with the Internet enabling such venture, we may be headed to reduce much (not all) of design to a science of hit forecasting/site assessment and dynamically reconfiguring campaigns to match the behavior of the surfer. Broadvision had a hamfisted version of this. Digital Impact tried to do this with email. I think there's something here.... its the Holy Grail. Will take a lot of mockups and studies... but with enough cheap human labor along with precision tracking, I think this can be blown wide open! __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

12-04-2003, 02:59 AM	#15
Roald SecretFriends.com Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: IMC Headquarters Posts: 27,889	Well Amp, to be honest I like your designs a lot. But when I look at some of them I think the surfer will be overwhelmed a bit and don't know where to look and click. How do you handle this, like with the party sites you made. They look great but very very busy and lots of eyecandy. Do you just hope the surfer will click on the join? Let me into the head of Amp lol __________________ WE ARE BUYING PAY SITES! CONTACT ME ClubSweethearts \| ManUpFilms \| SinfulXXX \| HOT * AdultPrime * HOT Paying webmasters since 1996! Contact: r.riepen @ sansylgroup.com \| telegram: roaldr

12-04-2003, 02:20 AM	#1
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	Key elements to successful design does your designer know them? Does your designer know how to employ them? Do YOU know them, so that you know what to look for? I'm not talking about fancy effects and filters in PS.... those are tactics. I'm talking about strategy. Do you know what strategy and tactics are, and the difference between them? Used to be the term "professional" actually meant something. Now it seems like it's been reduced to a catch phrase for every hack kid out there with PS v.Kazaa. But very few actually know anything remotely resembling professional production. it saddens me. No one has any damn pride in the work anymore. anyway... just some random thoughts... I'm going nowhere with this. Feel free to contribute or ignore. __________________ SIG TOO BIG

12-04-2003, 02:23 AM	#2
twistyneck So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hanging by the neck until dead. Posts: 4,660	All I know is this - A site does not have to be fancy to convert. It also helps if you have a clue as to what you are selling and who you are selling to.

12-04-2003, 02:24 AM	#3
X37375787 Guest Posts: n/a	As long as the product attracts and sells... that's what it's about, right? Now, does it have to have to be professional in order to sell?

12-04-2003, 02:36 AM	#9
johnbosh Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Netherlands, Rotterdam Posts: 8,965	it must look smooooth

12-04-2003, 03:02 AM	#17
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	And let me restate what I have stated before...I do not consider myself a "designer." I'm a gallery maker...that's it. I try to be the best gallery maker I can be...I aspire to be a "designer," but have a lot to learn and I know that. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

12-04-2003, 03:13 AM	#18
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	alright.... I wanna say I am not trying to come off as condescending, and I fear that is how it's gonna be taken. That said... your strategy is your overall plan. In a nutshell. Your tactics are the techniques you use to execute that plan. Breaking it down, too many people focus only on the tactics, and forge ahead with no strategy. Relying on the tactics to carry them through to some sort of miraculous success. It doesn't work. And if it does, on rare occasion, it's almost always very short term. Now... your strategy. What is it? What are you trying to do? "I wanna make buttloads of green!" is not a strategy. to be continued... __________________ SIG TOO BIG

12-04-2003, 03:15 AM	#19
Pad elephants dont swat flies Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,262	All you need to do is intriuge your visitor.. Don't correct my spelling, it's early __________________

12-04-2003, 03:32 AM	#25
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	back to your strategy... (and this applies to more than just porn sites, but that's another discussion) Your strategy is multi-leveled. Level 1: You need to define what your base goal is. This takes thinking and decisions on your part. Set your goal. Is your goal to retain loyal customers for as long as possible? Is your goal to suck 'em in en masse and be done with them? There are many different avenues to go... the first decision is which one. (for a particular job of course... one can have many different strategies in place simultaneously as well) Level 2: what type of environment are you trying to create? A familiar, secure, personal one? A warehouse? A revolving door? Subdued, private, & one on one or loud, public, & busy? Will it be a stand alone or supporting part of a network (family)? which brings you to Level 3: (notice you're gradually getting more detailed as you go. Start with nothing, and build on the base) Depending on the choices you've made so far, you need to decide if (and how) it needs to be branded. Branding (or not branding) is a key element. And it needs to be very well thought out. It can make or break you. If you chose stand alone, branding can be done certain ways. If you chose network element, branding takes a different approach. However you go, it needs to be a top concern. to be continued... __________________ SIG TOO BIG

12-04-2003, 03:47 AM	#26
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	this is all very condensed of course... it's alot of damn typing. a little more about branding... you may or may not need it. And anywhere in between. An example would be if you choose a quick buck/revolving door type plan, with a domain like www.she'sgothugefreakytitsandilovetoslidemycockbetweenthe m.com obviously your branding is going to be minimal if any. If you got something like Playboy or Hustler, it will be heavily branded. You want people to remember it and associate it with all the elements of your marketing approach. Branding is part of your strategy and affects your tactics. It's kind of hard to think of everything in bits and pieces.... it needs to really be envisioned as a whole. Everything in some way impacts on the other. __________________ SIG TOO BIG

12-04-2003, 03:58 AM	#27
The Truth Hurts Zph7YXfjMhg Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In Your Skull Posts: 15,328	the key is not just knowing the elements it's balancing them. most, if not all the designers that could do this properly are long gone. none of the new breed of low rent jock riders even come close. most of the brilliant designers graphically speaking, whether it's one guy or 20 monkeys locked in a room whipping out a thousand variations of the same tour, couldn't sell water in the desert. Thus, they churn out pretty sites that convert for shit. then there's the salesman who thinks he's also a designer, with fancy spreadsheets, guarantees, and statistics, which are all quite humerous, who churn out some of the most hideous designs you'll ever lay eyes on, and still manage to convert like shit. learn the keys, balance them, make your money quickly, cause in no time at all, someone is going to take your ideas, strip them down and sell the parts, and do it for half what you do.

12-04-2003, 03:58 AM	#28
iroc409 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: midwest side, yo Posts: 4,728	all good points, even for not-designers. these are things to think about when you're building your site, but hiring out the creative work. if you do bring your own vision to the designer, this stuff needs to be thought out. especially when you're looking to network and tie things together in one big happy family. a designer needs to bring in their own experience, skills, strategies and style and tie it in with the client's vision. but a lot of that has to do with the communication between the designer and client in the initial stages of a project (well, all stages, but it really helps if it's set clearly in the beginning). __________________ <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a> icq: 1 7 6 4 2 0 9 6 0 Gallery templates for ONLY $25! w00t!

12-04-2003, 04:06 AM	#29
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	Next you start getting into deeper specifics.... name selection, options for expansion (or not), etc. And these things all hinge on the choices you've already made. The idea is to build your strategy into a well refined plan before you ever crack open the PS. You gotta know what you're doing before you do it. Without naming names, I know a certain "designer" that's no longer around that employed the approach of "opening up Photoshop, throwing a bunch of shit out there, and see what sticks" method. I don't know if he was serious... odds are he was.... but it sounds pretty scary to me. These things are your key elements (and some others I've glossed over). How can anyone build a site without having a solid plan of attack? Mystifies me daily. Once you got your plan, you can go to work building. Your plan may change during development, but at least you always have blueprints with which to work from. The rest is just putting it into action. The tactics. And that's more detailed than I have time to get into tonight. __________________ SIG TOO BIG

12-04-2003, 04:07 AM	#30
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	and obviously for designers for hire, alot of these choices are made for you already... __________________ SIG TOO BIG

12-04-2003, 04:18 AM	#35
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	and this brings me back to my original post.... too many people have the impression that you can just slap together a bunch of "fancy" graphics, put it on the Net, and they will come. And it's being dubbed "professional" design. Makes me sick to see the word bastardized like that. Too many scam artists and teenagers running around proclaiming to be "professional" has destoyed the integrity of the word. The vast majority of them haven't got the slightest damn idea what goes into successful production. __________________ SIG TOO BIG

12-04-2003, 04:20 AM	#36
The Truth Hurts Zph7YXfjMhg Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In Your Skull Posts: 15,328	then again, overthinking things can basically kill a designers career.

12-04-2003, 04:22 AM	#37
Smokey The Bear So Fucking Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: South Of Heaven™ Posts: 3,880	I like eye candy , it shows me someone has time and money When i was on 14.4 it was a piss off

12-04-2003, 04:48 AM	#43
iroc409 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: midwest side, yo Posts: 4,728	oops... i made a typo in my post. when i said shooting blindly, i meant without knowing the target audience. although i'm sure you know what i meant. __________________ <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a> icq: 1 7 6 4 2 0 9 6 0 Gallery templates for ONLY $25! w00t!