You realize these aren't places where people are forced to live don't you? You do know these people choose to live in gated communities don't you?

Every single action a resident might make are covered by the Home Owners Association rules. Everything from the type of screen door, to the breed and size of allowable pets is covered, so is parking of vehicles, guest policies and of course the neighborhood watch.

If you don't like the rules don't buy or rent there. Pretty simple. The woman who was being visited knew there was a neighborhood watch, it's her duty to remind her guests there might be someone "patrolling" ?.. After all she choose to live in a gated community with a watch group of fellow community residents.

A lot of actions led to the final confrontation. Based on Martin's phone call conversation ("some cracker is following me") it's pretty obvious he had no clue as to why the residents choose to live in a gated community, SECURITY.


.

You are aware that tens of millions of people are armed and pretty much carry where ever they go. If you go out for dinner with the wife and kids a significant number of diners there are armed...and at the theater, at the park...at the library etc. etc. etc.

Any where you go in the U.S. there are people legally carrying and some that carry illegally. And yet you are pretending to be shocked that some neighbor hood watches have armed people as members. That dog doesn't hunt...with me. You have to be trolling.

I understand this FULLY.

But when you arm a civilian and tell him to play police officer with less than an hour of training and zero instruction AND no legal authority what so ever, you end up with someone like Zimmerman....

Right. This happens day in and day out. I mean literally 1000s of times a day, Zimmermans are out there gunning down innocent kids.

Are you trolling or stupid? Seriously.

Jesus - what the fuck?!


Cop Testifying At Zimmerman Trial Wore Military Ribbons She Didn't Earn

Combat veteran Jeremiah Workman couldn't believe what he was seeing: a police officer testifying at the George Zimmerman murder trial was wearing military ribbons. “Am I going blind or is this police officer in the Zimmerman-Martin trial wearing ribbons that she doesn’t rate?” He wrote beside a picture he posted to Facebook.

Gina Harkins of The Military Times saw his posting and reached out to Workman, who fought as a Marine in the second battle of Fallujah and was awarded the Navy Cross for valor.

She reports that Workman noticed two ribbons in particular — the World War II Army of Occupation Medal and the Defense Distinguished Service Medal.

What led you to believe a neighbor hood watch...especially the one I was a member of...was/is told to play police officer. How many hours of training/instruction do you think is required to explain..."watch" what is going on in your neighbor hood and call the police if you see suspicious activity. I don't know about you but I have been "watching" since the day I was born. I also have been using a telephone for almost as long.

I'm leaning towards believing both Martin and Zimmerman acted in self defense. Zimmerman never explained to Martin who he was or what he was doing and probably thought he was in danger. Once Martin was on top of Zimmerman, Zimmerman was also acting in self defense.

He should get manslaughter charges plus 6 months to a year for each count where it is shown he made false statements to police and I believe he may have made a few. I get the feeling that Zimmerman was overzealous and not as innocent as he has tried to make himself out to be. I would not doubt that he pulled his gun on Martin to prevent him from getting away and Martin then attacked him believing he was in danger. But no one knows but them.

They should change the laws to make neighborhood watch patrols wear clearly identifiable uniforms and require some type of training and duties. This whole mess could have been avoided.

TROLL ALERT!!!!! ABOVE

He Shot a Young Man, this 17 year old if her killed someone could be tried as an adult.
at 17 I guess I was a "KID" who graduated and Joined the Army and went to WAR. Guess the US Army is using Kids now...
He Shot him, because his head was being hit into a hard surface, NOT because he was wearing a hoodie in the rain...

While I agree with the identifiable uniforms, and training... It isn't full Proof,

Just Ask the POLICE!!!!! HAHAHAHA

One thing about Zimmerman is from what I understand he did not identify himself as the neighborhood watch nor did he have anything clearly distinguishable on him which made that obvious. So how does someone know he's not some crazed stalker or pervert looking to kidnap them or maybe a robber?

The whole thing is unfortunate and unnecessary. The saddest thing is that it's made into a racial issue as opposed to something we learn from and improve upon so that it does not happen again.

100% irrelevant. The question at that point is simply "did he prevent you from going home"... "did he obstruct your path"... "did he threaten you as you attempted to go home" etc. The answer is "no", "no", "no" .... you can't argue you pre-emptively attacked someone because you felt threatened without having cause to feel your life/body was in imminent danger. Being followed by someone who is clearly on the phone is not cause to attack them.

He was not wearing clothing that identified him as being a member of a neighborhood watch. The watch may or may not have identifying clothing...I have not heard this discussed...but even if they do Zimmerman was not on patrol...he was going to the grocery store...when he spotted Martin in the yard of a friends house that he had called the police about before.

In my case the patrol car was identified...and so were we...as being neighbor hood watch. The neighbor hood was also identified...via signs...that as being patrolled by a neighbor hood watch.

that's so fucked up.

And if the homeowner informed her guest the community had citizen patrols out he might have also acted differently when spotting someone following him.

Well, what did they tell you do? Watch? Or chase suspects on foot?

Martin was running away from him - RUNNING. Zimmerman went after him. That's not watching, that's chasing.

no one armed Zimmerman i dont know wtf your talking about your making less and less sence the more you post in this thread.

I joined the Marines at 17 myself. And your point is?

I'm beginning to believe that for you this is really about gun control. Are you for additional gun control measures?



Regarding your failure to see what my reply has to do with your commentary, let me remind you that it was YOU who sated:

1. " Sorry, I've never lived in a city like Tarzana California where the robbery rate is four times the national average...." ( In response to theking)

2. " Like I said, the robbery rate is nearly four times the national average. Murder is three times the national average. The city of Tarzana scores higher than the national average in all areas. Maybe this is why I don't understand why people want their neighborhood watches armed - I've never lived in a city with a crime rate that high."

3. "Still don't have people crying about how we need to arm ourselves and form an armed civilian posse. "

So you:

1. Essentially slam theking / and Tarzana for being a high crime area

2. Compare Tarzana you your own... much better area < insert sarcasm >

3. In doing so you make it sound as if you are flabbergasted because in your worldview crime justifying armed watches don't happen in areas like yours.

4. You insinuate that in your view, low crime areas don't want / shouldn't want armed neighborhood watches. And furthermore, those that do are.. in your own words ... "crying"




My point is that you know full well crime happens everywhere... and terrible crime at that. It happens in high crime areas and very affluent, low crime areas. A simple search reveals that.

Where you and I disagree is that you apparently don't feel that citizens should have the right to carry firearms even though it is perfectly legal to do so.

I have explained in detail what we were told to do...but I will answer your question one more time. Two of us patrolled via a car...not on foot. We were told to watch the activities in the neighbor hood and if we saw suspicious activity to call the police. We were told to avoid any confrontation if at all possible which of course was easy to do since we did not patrol by foot. We were told that the shotgun in the patrol car was to be used for one event and one event only and that event was if we were taking fire.

Now...I do not intend to answer any more of your questions...as I think you are just trolling....for whatever reason you are doing so.

BTW...Tarzana is a predominantly white...well educated...affluent neighbor hood and that is why it is a target for criminals...and the L.A. area is crime ridden...primarily because of the high population of blacks and illegal hispanics.

No, you didn't explain in detail what you were told to do. You said you had an "hour of instruction". You are "patrolling" - a law enforcement task - but you have zero training in anything remotely related to law enforcement. You had an "hour of instruction" and then were put in a patrol car with a shotgun and told to look for bad guys.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:thumbsup

fucking swine :2 cents:

I don't think we know what happened in the initial confrontation other than Zimmerman's story. Are there any other witnesses at that point for the initial confrontation? For all we know Zimmerman pulled his gun or had his hand in his pocket and yelled to Martin "Stop and drop to the ground now, asshole or I'll pump you full of lead!"

If you think about it it is quite likely a person confronting someone who they think is a criminal will have their weapon handy for the event if they are carrying one. Just as a cop would.

Frankly I believe Zimmerman (as did Martin) felt his life was in danger when he shot Martin but I question some parts of his story. For instance it's crazy that Martin, an unarmed 17 year old kid, would threaten to kill Zimmerman while Zimmerman still clearly had his weapon. Who does that? Parts of Zimmerman's story are very convenient for him. Just a bit too convenient.

Do I think he will mostly walk? Yes. There is reasonable doubt. Do I think he is innocent and do I fully believe his story? No way.

Wouldn't you think a fellow officer in the courthouse might have been curious as to what those ribbons were for? And a WW2 ribbon at that! Did she even know what they represented or did she view them as fashion accessories? lol lol crazy.


.

workman=marine who first noticed

"Workman got a hold of them and said they told him they didn?t have their own awards system, so they went to the Army-Navy store around the corner and picked out Defense Department military ribbons to fit their own format. The WWII was selected, the police department official told Workman, because they knew there weren?t many veterans from that period alive so they didn?t think people would notice.

?At the end of his explanation I thought to myself, ?So that makes it all better now because these guys are dead?? ? Workman said. ?The fact that that was their response is still pretty shameful, I think.?"

Hey thanks, and wow that makes it worse. What a cheesy police department.


.

this is some odd shit :Oh crap

Harkins writes "Workman got a hold of [The Sanford Police Department] and said they told him they didn’t have their own awards system, so they went to the Army-Navy store around the corner and picked out Defense Department military ribbons to fit their own format. The WWII was selected, the police department official told Workman, because they knew there weren’t many veterans from that period alive so they didn’t think people would notice."

full article...

what's in the coffee down there???

The whole thing shows so many weaknesses with the laws.

For instance many people say it's a question of whether Zimmerman was acting in self defense. Okay. But what if Martin was doing the same thing when he was on top of Zimmerman? Is the guy with the gun automatically the only person who can act in self defense? We don't have any witnesses to that part of the confrontation. We're filling it in and taking Zimmerman's word.

Under the law is it okay to shoot someone if they punch you or knock you to the ground? How do we determine who to believe and who not to believe with their account?

If you're a kid and an adult follows you around and confronts you and let us say you see a weapon on them is it okay to assume they are wanting to hurt you and to fight? If a kid or say a woman does do something would it then be okay for the adult following them to shoot them at that point?

If you're on the neighborhood watch or just a concerned citizen is it acceptable for you to follow someone around the neighborhood late at night without identifying yourself in some way? Can you do so on foot? At what point is it reasonable for the person you are following to feel they are in danger and to confront you? What if they are armed? Is it okay for them to draw their weapon and to tell you to back off and ask why you are following them?

It's a mess.

I own firearms myself, handguns and assault rifles. Americans have the right to own firearms.

The problem is anyone can get a firearm. Zimmerman is a great example - he was charged with assaulting a police office (the charge was dropped in court because he agreed to take an anger management class), and at one point he had a restraining order against him filed by his ex-wife. How was he allowed to be the neighborhood watch if had a restraining order against him, no less own a firearm?

As for the armed neighbor watches, I never knew there was such a thing. It stuns me to think that we arm civilians, don't train them, and tell them to "go look for potential criminals". We have a volunteer police force here in town - with 45 members! - they are unarmed and require twenty hours of training.

I'm not trolling. I just think this is utterly stupid. There is just way too many inconsistencies with his story. Martin took off running, and according to his video the day after Zimmerman says he "got out of his truck to look for the street name"? Then he says his head was banged on the concrete 25-30 times yet all he has is two small cuts that doesn't require any medical attention?

Pig...fucking...shit. You are a fucking troll or fucking dense...which is it?

Yes. While it's not for certain and none of us really knows let's be real. Zimmerman sounds like an overzealous Dirty Harry type who wanted to take his neighborhood back from scumbags. We all know this is likely. He probably was following Martin and he probably did confront him in some way. It's also very likely that he overstepped and tried to use his weapon in some way as a way of threatening him. He seems like the type who is into authority and if you disrespect that, it naturally pisses him off. Call it a psychological profile if you will.

I bet somehow they got into a physical confrontation and Martin began kicking his ass and was getting the better of it. Zimmerman felt his life was in danger and shot him in self defense. He had no idea that Martin was just an unarmed kid who had a right to be there. And Martin had no idea Zimmerman was on the neighborhood watch and was an overzealous type.

Zimmerman then made up parts of the story in order to make it look better for him after the fact. He did not want to get charged with murder. He realized that in the initial confrontation he did not act completely innocently. He also realized that his shooting Martin was questionable. So he came up with the things like how Martin said "you are going to die tonight". He also made sure to make it seem as if he wasn't looking to confront Martin.

Is there proof? Do I really know? No. But it seems more likely to me than Zimmerman's account. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

id use a different word, but yes

The volunteer officers receive twenty hours of training in basic police procedures...not simply watching and making a phone call. A neighbor hood watch has nothing to do with being a policeman or law enforcement in general...volunteer or other wise. They watch and make a phone call...how many fucking hours of training do you think it takes to do that?

Workman then called the Sanford PD according to the article on a blog at Militarytimes.

Workman got a hold of them and said they told him they didn?t have their own awards system, so they went to the Army-Navy store around the corner and picked out Defense Department military ribbons to fit their own format. The WWII was selected, the police department official told Workman, because they knew there weren?t many veterans from that period alive so they didn?t think people would notice.

?At the end of his explanation I thought to myself, ?So that makes it all better now because these guys are dead?? ? Workman said. ?The fact that that was their response is still pretty shameful, I think.?

Workman said police departments allowing military veterans to wear ribbons they earned while serving on their police uniform is fine with him. If they earned it, they should be able to wear it, he said.

?But what kind of professional police department would send Bob the patrolman around the corner to go pick out some ribbons for our officers to wear when they do something heroic or have good service over the years?? he asked.

Workman said the police department official told him that they?re going to change to their own ribbon system, which he was glad to hear. Now he hopes other police departments doing the same will think about their own regulations and change them too, he added.

So it does not look like the officer is at fault, seems she is only wearing what her department awarded her.

For instance?

And your facts are based on what?

Idiot

a new thread, a new cop being backed up by the ex biker

He is probably lying or omitting details about

a) Trayvon threatening him with "you are going to die tonight" (likely complete bullshit to help justify deadly force)

b) The details of the initial confrontation (likely bullshit to cover up the real confrontation details which are likely damaging to Zimmerman and would show that Trayvon was also acting in self defense at some point)

His story is just too convenient for him and the death threat makes little sense given the facts (Zimmerman was armed and Trayvon knew that at the time according to Zman. At no time did Martin touch the weapon or control it). But the burden of proof is on the prosecution to show that he made false statements. And proving that he made false statements does not remove the possibility that he still acted in self defense which I personally believe.

So you need to be armed with a shotgun to make a phone call?

Zimmerman was armed, untrained, and had anger issues. He handled the entire situation from the start poorly. If I understand correctly, at one point Martin had circled around Zimmerman's truck. Instead of being friendly, Zimmerman rolled up his window and said nothing.

You say the neighborhood watch has nothing to do with law enforcement, but yet here we have Zimmerman chasing an innocent kid through an apartment complex in rain.

Zimmerman told dispatch that Martin was running. Then Zimmerman gets out of the car to go and look for him.

You are calling me dense yet you are all for arming people and sending them out to "patrol for bad guys".

Of course not...as I explained more than once...the shotgun was there to have some defense if the patrol car was fired upon. There is a certain amount of risk of becoming a target when your car is clearly identified as neighbor watch.

I do not not know where you come up with all of the descriptive lanquage you inject into the Zimmeman case (certainly not from the trial)...but I can guess...its from all of the talking heads discussing the case and the trial...to make their TV show more entertaining.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

comedy gold :thumbsup

Shoo...little British...probably a Cockney...troll.

Awww, did I make you upset? :Oh crap

how many neighbourhood watch patrol cars have ever been fired upon, out of interest?

:1orglaugh im not going to call you anything it's childish :2 cents: fuck the police :321GFY

His points were:
1. Stop calling 17 year old criminal thug "a kid"
2. thug was shot not because he was wearing a hoodie in the rain, but because he was hitting zimmerman's head into the ground

That is not the reason Zimmerman said he shot Martin. He said that he shot him when Martin saw his gun and went for his gun...while at the same time issuing a threat to his life.

Yes, and this reason is absolutely not that he "was wearing a hoodie in the rain" as Rochard claims :)