Correct. This is why I think Zimmerman's attorneys are not trying to use this law in his defense. Martin was there visiting with friend/family so he had a right to be where he was so if Zimmerman confronted him he had every right to stand his ground.

baba needs new sneakers

:2 cents::2 cents:

Let's not forget this is inside a gated community where strangers ARE noticed and if you are part of neighborhood watch maybe even followed hence the name neighborhood watch.

They are making it about race very clearly.

But take a look at this.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/jos...a-guevara/view

Note the Race. thats from the FBI so the Government for all intents and purposes see hispanic in this guys case as white.

wow i didnt even think of that. :)

Here in the UK that would count as threatening behaviour (causing the other to feel harassed/threatened), and in reality you should be able to defend yourself if you genuinely feel threatened. It's that basic survival thing of fight or flight, and in a fraction of a second your brain has decided independently which of the two it's going to be.

Proving that you genuinely felt threatened and therefore the 'fight' kicked in (and imo should be an absolutely viable and total legal defence - I'd return a not guilty in a heartbeat, every single time if I were a juror) is a different matter of course. I say all this merely to stimulate further discussion, as I'm no legal expert, obviously.

We need more Zimmermans

I'm sure you'll be around plenty of them where you're going.








http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/fi...2xNw_Devil.jpg

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :uhoh

it's odd.. but i read this as everyone except asian as being 'white american'?

but the link is broken:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_68178.htm

bizarre to me.. anyone else?

Zimmerman's defense team decided not to try this defense.

http://rt.com/usa/zimmerman-martin-stand-ground-683/

I think that in most states here its basically the same. There is a major line drawn between everything and getting physical. Unless there is a reasonable belief of a serious threat (meaning the threat of being severely injured or killed), you can't get physical someone. That is also very tough to prove... because in the absence of witnesses, you can't easily prove you believed yourself to be in serious danger. Its just one guys word against another. But two low lifes just standing there calling each other pussy, cracker and n|gger isn't going to pass that test in any state. Also the facts suggest that Martin was where he was not supposed to be (running between houses etc), doing something he was not supposed to be doing and Zimmerman was where he was supposed to be , doing something he was supposed to be doing (making sure shady people arent running around in the dark, up to no good as he called 911 to report it).

At the end of the day, i am guessing that the facts (each parties wounds, Zimmermans account and eyewitness testimony and so on) are all consistent with Zimmerman being attacked. The only way that would be justifiable for Martin to attack i think in any state here would be if it could be proven that Martin thought his life was in danger or he was moments from being attacked. Someone following you and demanding to know who you are and where you are going isn't enough. Besides, its hard to prove when Zimmerman is on the phone with 911 most of the time and he's requested police assistance and police are being dispatched.

The real tragedy of this case is not that one loser lost his life and another loser is being charged with murder... its that today and yesterday have clearly shown that the prosecution has no case whatsoever, yet charged him with murder. That's something that needs to be looked at more than gun control or alleged racism.... and the fact that the media started crying racism from day one, while showing mugshots of Zimmerman and pics of Martin when he was 12 years old to paint a very warped picture and distort the story.

Casey who? :winkwink:

No, I do not have an opinion. I am looking at the evidence, or rather, the lack of evidence. I don't think he is innocent or guilty because the entire case is circumstantial at best. It could have been this, could have been that, or could have been something else.

Well, his believability and how the prosecution presents their case. So far, the prosecution is doing a shitty job as far as I can tell.

This case is completely about race... The media has spun it as "big bad racist whitey killed poor, helpless, innocent blackey". If the media hadn't spun this into a big bad racial hate crime then, with the gross lack of evidence, the worst they would have tried to get him for is involuntary manslaughter.

Once again, you are twisting facts, or the lack thereof, with your opinion. You have absolutely no evidence or proof that Zimmerman did anything whatsoever to provoke an altercation; just like Zimmerman has absolutely no proof that Martin did. The burden of proof however is on the DA, and he's been doing a real shitty job of it so far.

Its definitely being turned into a race issue, just look at all the questions about 'whitey' being called 'cracka' by black folks.

I also think they are going to try using the route where they will be saying the witnesses were coached by the mother, father and their media hungry buddy.

Either way if Zimmerman gets found guilty in this case it will be because the jury had already made their mind up because of the media over the past year surrounding the case.

After all, what his attorney tried to say with that dumb knock-knock joke is that its pretty much impossible to find someone to sit on the jury who hasn't already made their mind up about his guilt or innocence... It actually wasn't meant as a 'joke' more as a statement but most of us Americans are to dumb to realize that unfortunately.

Bingo. The actual facts, or lack thereof, don't matter one bit at this point.

ask yourself this :helpme do you think if he is let go he would be able to be block captain again?? because some of you said he did the right thing. tell the truth. ttyl have a good evening. :thumbsup

To be completely honest, I think that if he's let go, he'll be murdered, probably by someone in Martins family. And then the media will jump the fuck on it in a heartbeat and make it impossible to try said murder.

Wait... you think that calling someone as a first witness that is 1/2 a retard and that admitted to not being able to read the statement she signed to recant largely irrelevant hearsay, most of which hurts his case and a second witness who was the only eye witness to the actual fight that who testified that Zimmerman was being pummeled and crying for help... is doing a shitty job?

Sounds like racism to me.

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/u...06/600x279.jpg

He is calling the witnesses in the order they became involved; apparently all of them.

Not sure how this ties into racism but... ok. His job is to present the facts. Hard to do so when there really aren't any facts. In my opinion, the media circus surrounding this 'case' from day one has forced this trial to take place; again, regardless of the actual evidence.

Either way though, at this point I'd say his career is pretty much over.

Perhaps it would be good policy that if you are going to pursue people that you wear a Security shirt or at least clearly identify who you are and why you are approaching them.

And if you've already called the police, keep the person in your sight but let the cops come and do their job.:2 cents:

It was sarcasm. Referring to everyone else talking about Race/racism as if its relevant to steer away from the actual facts of the case.

Papa, Where you been papa? :upsidedow

The eyewitness, if believable and telling the truth today, the dude with goatee, is pretty damning for martin's side.

He'll have to move far far away.
Peru might be nice.

I'm not watching the trial, but following it via the news. When you read what some of these people are saying it doesn't change my opinion at all which is that it will be up to the jury to decide if Zimmerman provoked Martin and started the fight or not. Since there doesn't appear to be clear evidence one way or the other it comes down to who is most credible.

However, based on how the witnesses themselves act, the information given so far may be taken differently.

As for race. Of course they are going to bring race up. The prosecution is trying to prove that Zimmerman saw a black person in his neighborhood and immediately became suspicious of them so he followed him, started a fight with him and then shot him when he was losing that fight. Race plays a role in this trial.

For the record, and I admit I miss big chunks, the only race thing I have heard discussed is whether or not "cracker" or the n-word were common euphemisms in Trevor's hood.

You know what .. I agree.

haha good
ds

Zimmerman was acquitted when he killed the kid, at least in the minds of all the racist wackjobs in Amerika.

Incorrect. The media has been race baiting this entire ordeal from day 1; not to mention the black community playing the race card every chance they possibly get. The prosecution knows it doesn't have a case - especially for murder 2 - but had to prosecute anyway in order to appease the bullshit outcry from the black community thanks to the media instigating and hyping this whole thing up like it was some massive racism fueled hate crime...

Again, if any of the evidence could prove otherwise, then this would be an entirely different issue. But as it stands right now, the only "evidence" they really have is from some illiterate retard who can't even read a sworn statement that she sign spouting off nonsense about "crazy ass cracka".

But then, none of it really matters anyway. The jury and everyone else involved have made up their mind on innocence or guilt long before the trial actually started.

Yes, just like everyone who doesn't like Obama is racist too...

People like you are the very fucking reason racism will never die.

I agree that the media has been all over the race aspects of this since day one and Martin's family and supporters have played the race card non-stop. I also agree that the prosecution was maybe pressured into a murder 2 charge. They likely wanted to press for manslaughter which may have ended in a plea bargain, but all the media attention forced their hands.

I still think race has a place in the trial. If Zimmerman was racially profiling Martin that has some importance and if Martin's race is what caused Zimmerman to stop and investigate it plays a role in this. Of course, we will never likely know if race did play a role in this or not. The circumstances surrounding this case just don't allow for us to ever know the full truth of how and why things went down.

That is precisely it. There isn't enough evidence one way or another.

Personally, I don't think he should walk away scott free because I don't really buy the whole self defense story. Getting your ass kicked doesn't constitute life threatening in my book... but at the same time, there's also no real way he could have known Martin wasn't armed either.

Had the media not gotten involved and made it look like a racism fueled hate crime then Zimmerman would be looking at manslaughter. And that would have been just in my book because of the lack of evidence. But trying for murder 2 is a waste of everyone's time, and tax payer money because again, there isn't enough evidence one way or another.

I thought there had been a rash of breakins or something done by black suspects. Is that profiling?

Based on WHAT would race play a role? How does race play a role in anything? Thats pretty extreme. This is an assertion that as usual was immediately made by the family (mother?). If race plays a role its merely because everyone is insisting that race plays a role, even though there is no factual basis for that.

Listen to them analyze the 911 call in court. Sounds like he was quite calm and just doing his job. No one says "there's a negro here, can i shoot him because he's a negro". In fact, the call is pretty clear that he is calm, sees a guy that shouldn't be where he is based on how he is acting, how he is wandering all over the place - in and out of peoples yards and so on. He didn't even describe him as being black until he walked closer to Zimmerman as he was talking to the dispatchers (who were already en route). He followed him because the guy was running away and he wanted to keep his eyes on him until the police arrived.

You just can't listen to the 911 call and think "this is a guy who wants to commit an act of violence". he's just calmly doing his job and reporting what he's seeing.... in a neighborhood that's had 8 burglaries in 15 months committed by,... wait for it..... wait for it... wait for it... young black males, who were either witnessed committing the crimes or were subsequently arrested.



And the prosecutor is really a dipshit. Another witness totally devastating his case for him. What a turd.

when will this shit finish

Technically, yes it is. By seeing a black person and thinking, based only on the color of their skin, that they are up to something is profiling.

This doesn't mean that profiling is always incorrect. There are times that it works, but there are times that it can bite you in the ass.

According to the transcript I read Zimmerman did say, "These assholes. They always get away" while he was following Martin.

This doesn't mean that he meant that black people always get away with it. However, my point about race is that the prosecution is trying to paint the picture that Zimmerman profiled Martin and pursued him because he was black. If Martin's race was one of the main reason that he stopped then pursued him then it has a place in the trial. That is all I am saying.

I thought her name was jeantel? LOL

I lasted 22 seconds. During which I heard the prosecutor ask "at the time of the phone call you did not know this would become the george zimmerman case?" :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Holy fucking shit, really? He actually asked that? To do what? To prove what point? To set what tone? What am I missing, in my jaw-dropped state of utter disbelief, and complete lack of patience I always suffer during pointless spoken words?

i would of found him guilty without the media. I was part of a neighborhood watch, your job is to watch and call the police no more. He was looking to play Charles Bronson.
Everybody keeps forgetting Zimmerman was the one with a history of violence and going ape shit not the kid.

I sure as shit hope you never end up on a jury... You have absolutely zero evidence or proof of what actually happened from the time he hung up the 911 call until the police arrived. Your opinion is based on nothing more than speculation and conjecture.

The fact that you would convict someone of murder on nothing more than that makes you worse than Zimmerman...

You really avoid those stupid racial lines though, don't you?
You never lump people together as a racial group to say something negative.

:1orglaugh

Just stating the facts man... Answer me this if you are confused... Which ethnic group spends the most time playing the race card? It is what it is, doesn't make anything I said wrong or "racist" or discriminatory because they are the facts.

The evidence is a dead body, everything beyond that is speculation which you seem to be the king of.

How the hell do you figure that? I haven't given an opinion either way on what I think happened. This entire time I have been talking about the lack of evidence for either side. The thing is, the burden of proof is on the prosecutor, not the defendant...

People are convicted of murder all the time, what more evidence than a dead body and a weapon do you think they normally need to get a conviction??

I don't know... intent, motive, evidence proving it wasn't self defense? Just to name a few.