It is about what can and can't be proven. He would have to prove he did not initiate the conflict or do life in prison. IF there were slam dunk facts to prove that, that would be a different story and a different defense.

He was never expected to take the stand.

There are only downsides to him taking the stand and getting ripped apart by a skilled, well prepared prosecutor. It's not about explanations or facts, its about credibility... the prosecutor would just hammer him until he started stuttering and stammering and questioning himself and eventually getting confused and contradicting himself as would happen with anyone.

Thats like saying "Bob refuses to fight George st Pierre in the cage, so that proves Bob is lying about his 3 weeks of MMA training back home in Pickleshit Indiana"

Well, if you had listened to testimony, his girlfriend is the one that said he used the racial slur, cracker, and that it was common in her neighborhood.

A critical fact is that stand your ground was never an issue in court; only in the media and GFY

I did no such thing. It was part of the closing arguments - it was Zimmerman making a statement to the police after the shooting. It was audio only. It was Zimmerman himself who said it.

zero evidence? so those pictures of zimmerman getting jumped is from something else?

The defense/Zimmerman said that Zimmerman walked up to Martin and got face to face with Martin?

Thats not at all what his statements to the police were.

That Zimmerman went up to Martin and not the other way around... i.e. "confronted" Martin.

You seriously have to be trolling.

Okay; here is the problem, you have never listened to jury instructions. Let me clear that up for you . . . . opening statements and closing arguments are not evidence, and they are not to be considered as evidence. It is their summary of the facts as counsel would like you to believe them.

I went back and read your initial claim . . . no where in the audio did GZ say he approached Martin.

The gym owner said on the stand that Zimmerman lost 50-80 lbs.

However, he also said that Zimmerman couldn't throw a punch to save his life or defend himself - which doesn't make sense to me. How can you join a martial arts gym, be there long enough to loose 50-80 lbs, yet never learn how to throw a punch?

If I walk behind you on a public street and go wherever you go on the public street. I am following you.

If I am "chasing" you...then my intent is to catch you.

Why are you asking such a stupid question? Get yourself a dictionary.

I doubt that.... But it says a lot about the justice system...

You can assume a person is a suspect because he walking around while black, following him around with a weapon... shoot him, claim your a victim and then say it's self defense.... Amazing...

I think Canadians have different meanings for words like the English do.

You lose weight with diet and nutrition first. Not "punching"

All of this, his experience there and so on was explained in full detail with the testimony and cross examination of the gym owner. You said you've heard and read everything, so forgive me for talking to you as if you hadn't.

Also, it was not a "MMA Gym", "Martial Arts Gym" etc. Though that is a big part of its focus. It was a full gym with full weight facilities. Not just a facility with a single focus. Zimmerman also went there to do cardio. That doesn't mean he's a trained fighter.
http://www.kogym.com/personal-fitness-training.htm

Everytime he goes to the mall, he has a tough time as he turns around and realizing 1300 behind him walking in the same circle are "chasing him" to "confront" him.

so he followed martin, as you stated, but didn't 'confront' him.

the confrontation just 'happened'

nothing to do with the following, of course?

Richard, you're a dumb human being and a troll and a Canadian strangely obsessed with America. What happened is all public record, i'm done educating you. Like others, you are trying to establish something as fact which can't be established as fact and trying to make an argument which isn't even made by the prosecution. Maybe you should be a prosecutor since you're so smart.

All you have is questions and no answers because its a safe tactic for a weak minded simpleton such as yourself who wants to be perceived as smart and be perceived as making an argument when you really have none top make.

Fittingly, "all questions and no answers" is also a metaphor for your life.

Zimmerman will be going away for a while, no doubt.

Some of the same people who did not believe Obama would be elected the FIRST time think otherwise.

Some of the same people who did not believe Obama would be elected the SECOND time think otherwise.

These same people will be wrong again, as usual.

if you walk behind me on a public street you are 'following me'

if you purposely follow me for the purpose of following me, that's 'chasing'

or, as id put it, 'stalking'.

and what really happened:

can't deal with the current argument, resort to throwing poo.

other primates do it as well..

yep. we have these things called 'dictionaries'.

beats making up shit as we go along.

http://www.kogym.com/mixed-martial-arts.htm that's what he was there to learn. It was said he was there to learn mma.

I just heard Zimmerman in his own voice say he walked up to Martin.

I am pretty sure it was entered in as evidence prior.

Interesting that the first thing that came to mind was you getting covered in shit at the hands of someone else.

Another metaphor for your lack of self esteem and low sense of self worth, no doubt.

Wanting to learn something that requires a great deal of skill, physical ability and training does not mean thats what you are doing on day 1. I have 1 black belt, have substantial experience in a second style of karate as well as boxing/kicking boxing and i've owned a martial arts school. being a fighter is the end goal. You start out spending 6 months to a year of doing very boring stuff - footwork, endurance, stability, defense etc. Standard operating procedure. The owner of the gym gave extensive testimony as to the process of training and what Zimmerman did exactly in his gym... none of which was refuted.

also, not slamming the door of the dojo. :upsidedow had a hardtime with that one, the wind would catch it and i'd have to go back and do it again, fuck that! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

dude you really are hilarious. you ever do stand up comedy?

I know a guy in Karate for 12 years, and my son at 17 beat him up in the ring.

Just because you Train for something doesn't make you an expert no matter how long you train. The training did make him lose weight.

Also if you watch any MMA, the guy on the bottom no matter how well trained if pretty much fucked..... (top mount)

I've been seriously thinking about training again. Maybe kickboxing. It's just such a pain in the ass to get any degree of flexibility back and such a painful process. :( But the cardio is definitely worth it and i really need it right now!

Also, doesn't help when you're basically a happy-go-lucky adult and not an angry kid.

but George was doing it for 12 months and he learned nothing? ok also how did he sneak up on George when his phone was knocked out of his hand?

Again, you are overgeneralizing and distorting what was said.

Seems to be a very common tactic with most of you who argue with emotion rather than reason.

I never said "he learned nothing".

I am saying that it was all covered in great detail in court. IF you wanted to know the facts, you could look up the facts and argue based on that.

I am saying that learning any fighting art is a long process. That long process begins with a lot of very unexciting stuff.

A simple example is Aikido. I have never seen an Aikido trainer that had people actively trying to use techniques on a partner inside of 6 months. The first 6 months or more is basically learning how to move, how to fall, how to roll etc. Oh, and for the record, Aikido is for pussies. However, anything is possible. But the gym owners version was credible and well explained and was not proven to be a lie.

i hear ya, i'm all about the yoga these days, much more laid back. :1orglaugh

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

you do right? stand up comedy :1orglaugh

Ahh... so thats where your sunny disposition comes from :)

Yoga is really great. I had contemplated it for a long time and never did. But definitely the single best way to get flexible and maintain it.

You should listen to the entire thing, but start at 2:55 if you don't have 7 minutes

At age 17 I was in the US Marines.... But my point is at the very least after six months of training at a boxing gym or whatever it was he should have been able to defend himself to some degree. To say he was had been training at the gym long enough to loose fifty lbs but yet was "unable to throw a punch" doesn't make sense to me.

http://i.imgur.com/lCxWF6x.jpg

or if you want to cut directly to the chase.

It's funny the vested interest people have in this case as opposed to what the actual evidence is. I'm as Liberal as they get AND I'm not pro-guns. (I also believed and was thankful Obama was elected both times btw). But I also have no doubt Zimmerman was defending himself and an intelligent jury will see it that way.

Yet just by reading this thread, you can see how it's divided down political lines. Most Liberals think Zimmerman's a murderer. Most conservatives think he was defending himself.

The audio I am talking about that was just used in the trial was AUDIO, and NOT video. This was an audio only interview taken at the police station the night of the shooting, not the video you just posted that was shot the following the day.

Did not see this in the trial a few hours ago? The attorney even pointed out how Zimmerman contradicted himself - on the audio tape in the police station he says he "walked up to Zimmerman while reaching for my cell phone" yet during the video the following day he spins a different story.

This was also just brought up a few hours ago... Does Zimmerman really expect us to believe that Martin was reaching behind him for a firearm that he never saw?

How did Zimmerman pull out his firearm if he was getting the shit beat out of him?

Or did Zimmerman have the gun out when he walked towards Martin and confronted him?

yeah, no yoga unicorns in my world. :)

how did zimmerman have so much blood on him, and martin have absolutely none of zimmermans blood on him?

how did martins hand have only: 'small abrasions to Martin's left hand', when zimmerman somehow managed to break his own nose?

btw, i'm still chuckling over this. :mad:


:1orglaugh

Also gz had worked as a bouncer in the past and was fired for being too aggressive. He knew how to use his hands.

Interesting that the only mentions of that are of an unnamed person, talking about an under the table job, as security for "illegal house parties" who told it to a journalist.

Was this brought to the trial as evidence? No? Hmm...

But its just a person fighting for his life. Why should verifiable facts matter.

1:45

There was also a great deal of testimony as to how and why peoples stories change slightly after stressful and traumatic events, how memory works under stress, how memories are recovered or come back over time etc etc etc.
:2 cents:

I didn't watch the trial, however I saw the above video, and I am genuinely curious about why Zimmerman tries to indicate that the fight took place at the intersection of two sidewalks, when in fact it appears that the altercation took place maybe 50' feet or so away, well down the path towards where Trayvon Martin was staying.

Also, from what I recall reading about the trial, I was under the impression that Zimmerman's head was being slammed into the sidewalk pavement immediately proceeding the gunshot which took Trayvon Martin's life, yet Martin's body (which supposedly fell where he was shot) is several feet from the pavement:

http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2...itness-map.jpg

http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-...17618_free.jpg

Did anybody from the Prosecution question these issues at trial, and if so, what was the Defense's response?

:stoned

ADG

That is not really how it works.

the Bao witness did. He specified that the only thing Martin was doing after being shot was falling down and spending the last 10 minutes of his life in extreme pain

and unable to move.

Defense objected, asking how it was relevant, and the witness himself specified that it was VERY relevant..

That is incorrect.

According to the prosecution, the little thug died almost instantly from a gunshot wound to the heart, had he been moving or talking, etc, that would have cause more blood to 'spurt' out of his fatal wound.

If you had actually listened to the closing arguments of the case by the prosecution instead of the imaginary closing arguments inside your own head, you would have noted this fact.

Did Zimmerman kill the little black wannabe thug? Absolutely, was he provoked, only 2 people know and one of them cant tell their side of the story.

This is basically going to come down to who the jury members believe, a respected community member who setup a neighborhood watch program to protect the many varying cultures and ethnically diverse individuals living in his gated community or;

A kid who was suspended from school, used racial slurs as part of everyday life, was too much for his own mother to handle behavior wise and considered himself a 'thug' who knew how to sucker punch someone.

I definitely do not envy the jurors decision when it comes to this case, or the judge, or the attorneys or even family members of both parties.

The media circus following this case will continue and be bought up for many years to come, if Zimmerman walks, he will live in fear for the rest of his life until someone kills him for the reward money put out by the Black Panthers. If he gets sentenced, he will undoubtedly die in prison at the hands of other black felons.

Ultimately, whatever verdict this case results in, Zimmerman is a dead man and all he wanted to do was protect his family and his neighbors but one bad decision has pretty much guaranteed the rest of his life will be a worthless one. At the same time, for all we know Treyvon was a thug, who acted like a thug who got what a thug ultimately deserved, we will never know the truth in this case, just what the media, Zimmerman and the attorneys are telling us...

hard taking you seriously