What's hard to believe? That we don't call the police and report someone is walking around every time a stranger is spotted? The Tampa police would stop showing up if that was the case plus you would have upset guests.

If someone is acting very suspicious then yes the police are called otherwise discretion is used. That's just common sense. Where you live the police are called 100% of the time someone is walking around that isn't recognized ? Wow.

Our guys are usually riding in golf carts and always, always initiate a conversation.


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Yup, the trial is being broadcasted live so you can follow all of it....so far the prosecution is doing the defense's job for them...this case should have never gone to trial and no charges should have been filed.

And you know this how?

You and Rochard really should be in Florida now; the prosecution needs some witnesses that will bolster their case.

yeah cus shit was all good for blacks in the 60s

We should not, under any circumstances, have armed civilians patrolling anything. Neighborhood watch has zero fucking authority to do anything other than call the police. I don't think a reserve deputy is qualified; In my neck of the woods a reserve deputy is someone they call up in an extreme emergency to direct traffic (they did this in my hometown during the propane train fire), and retired cops are the worst - they think they know all, have a limited tolerance for bullshit, and are last kind of person you want on the neighborhood watch.

What you've just told me is exactly the root of the problem here - we had an untrained armed neighborhood watch member who completely went out of his way to break all rules of the neighborhood watch. His job wasn't to pursue and detain; His job was to call the fucking police.

The end result is a seventeen year old kid was killed seventy feet from the front door who's only crime was buying skittles.

You aren't the solution, you are the problem.

This seems to be true. The items were never proven to be stolen, although it seems pretty obvious. He was also suspended from school for a bong or something.

I'm not saying the kid is completely innocent, but he was shot and killed seventy feet from his front door for no reason at all.

As long as we are pulling scenarios out of our asses, who's to say Martin didn't attack someone who was simply following and observing what he thought was suspicious behavior? That's as plausible as Zimmerman just shooting someone for no reason.

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For no reason other than he was beating a guy's head against the pavement . . . with the intent to inflict great bodily harm; possibly even attempted murder.

Zimmerman can't go with the "stand your ground" defense because he wasn't standing his ground or defending himself, but instead was pursuing Martin - he was following him.

Even self defense doesn't fly with me. This was a fist fight, and Zimmerman was never in any serious damage. He didn't even go to the hospital. I've had a lot worse beat downs than this.

People watch way too much TV and think they are James Bond.

Seems to me Zimmerman was one of those persons. Being on the neighborhood watch is great, but being armed while doing it sounds a bit over the top to me.

Where I live in here in California we have a volunteer police force. Anyone can join, it's unpaid, and you get a uniform. They even have special police cars marked as "volunteer", no red and blue lights, but instead orange. They do traffic enforcement - mostly at the local schools directly traffic when the kids get let out of school - and quietly patrol late at night. I don't know if they are armed or not, but I know their instructions are to never confront anyone and instead to call the regular police.

Our HOA also has a security force that patrols at night. I rarely see them.

This is what blows my mind. At no point in time did Zimmerman identify himself as a member of the "neighborhood watch". All Martin knew is that an older man with a firearm had stopped his truck, was watching him, and then following him.

This was a fist fight; Zimmerman didn't even need to go to the hospital.

What kind of a Marine were you? Fucking cook? Fist fights aren't dangerous? Ending up with your head on concrete isn't dangerous? Did you miss the hand to hand part of training?

You are the biggest fucking liar and storyteller on this forum or a master troller. If you ever had a "beat down" like you claim no way could you make such a naive comment about not being in danger.

Ask xxxjay about taking just one punch to the head.

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That's very true.

From Zimmerman's point of view, he was following someone who looked suspicious.

From Martin's point of view, an older man with a firearm stopped his truck, watched Martin, and then followed him on foot. Martin most likely felt threatened and was scared. It's entirely possible that Martin attacked Zimmerman (without warning) because he thought he needed to defend himself against a man with a firearm. In fact, I am guessing this is the case - This kid surprised Zimmerman, got the first punch in, and Zimmerman wasn't able to recover from the first strike.

But if this is the case, you can argue Martin was acting in self defense - against a man with a firearm.

You're nuts.

I was infantry, 0352, TOW Gunner, and then later a 0913 Combat instructor. I did not teach hand to hand combat.

I've been in dozens of fist fights in my lifetime. In one case I did go to the hospital, but I wouldn't describe that as a fist fight. (In fact, I had internal bleeding and broken bones.)

Zimmerman didn't need to go do the hospital, nor did he even see a doctor. He had a fat lip. I would hardly call that "life threatening".

So, it is your contention that he should wait until he is losing consciousness to consider going for his sidearm?

How did Martin know Zimmerman had a gun? and 28 is hardly "an older man"

White people should not kill black people.

Come on Rochard you were a combat instructor for the Marines. Paid certified bad asses. You should know the dangers of even one good punch to the head. The average male has never been hit hard by another adult. Just the disorientation means you now have a good chance of being on the losing end. And once on the losing end it's a matter of mercy on your opponent as to how bad you end up.

I read most of these posts and find emotions playing a role determining why Zimmerman is guilty. The facts should dictate the outcome of the trial!

So far, facts shown puts Zimmerman defending himself against Martin, bad outcome for Martin not knowing Zimmerman was carrying a gun. If Zimmerman was not carrying what would have been the outcome of that altercation?

Everyone continue on, keeps me entertained by some responses from folks that are emotionally sensitive from people that carry guns. (2nd Amendmant Right)

Its best to let the facts and the evidence state the case.

I also remember that there were more than half a dozen break-ins in that neighborhood in the previous 6 months. According to witnesses and the police most of the break ins were perpetrated by people fitting Martin's description. I can easily understand why Zimmerman followed him. As anyone with a brain can do as well. What happened after that I do not know.

Why aren't you the star witness for the prosecution? Sure as shit seems like you had a front row seat to the entire incident.

just agree to disagree :2 cents:

I am sure he has had many beat downs, as he says. lol. He never lets the facts get in the way of a good rant.:1orglaugh

I got my renewed concealed carry permit yesterday...just sayin....

There are two sides of this - Most of us have had more than a few fist fights, never considered them life threatening, and never had to go to the doctor or hospital. On the other hand, a single strike in the right place can kill a man, or in the case of Jay the first strike can be more than enough to take out a man.

It seems to me Zimmerman was on the loosing end of a smack down. He got a bloody lip. Was it life threatening? Hardly. This was a scuffle and a fist fight that Zimmerman was loosing.

Here's what I think happened....

1. Zimmerman saw Martin, didn't recognize him, and thought he looked suspicious.
2. Zimmerman pulled his truck over, called police, and watched Martin.
3. Zimmerman gets out of his truck and starts to follow him.
4. Martin, who is on the cell phone, notices this, see he is armed (Zimmerman had the firearm in his waistband in plain sight?) and decides to take action.
5. Martin ducks out of sight, loosing Zimmerman. Zimmerman reports this to the police, hangs up, and moves back towards his truck.
6. Martin confronts Zimmerman, surprising him, pops Zimmerman in the face taking him down, and Martin jumps on top of Zimmerman and starts beating on him.
7. Zimmerman shoots Martin, killing him.

I am "guessing" it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman, mostly because Martin seems to have gotten the jump on Zimmerman and quickly controlled the situation. Either that or Zimmerman confronted Martin, hit first, but Martin got the upper hand. But I don't think who hit first is too important; Martin thought he was being pursued by a man with a firearm tucked in his waistband and felt the need to protect himself.

This is going to boil down to if the jury thinks Zimmerman had the right to shoot Martin because Zimmerman thought his life was in danger. I think Zimmerman thought his life was in danger and / or panicked. In the head of the moment when another man is on top of you beating you up, that is a very difficult call to make.

Zimmerman's injuries weren't life threatening. He didn't got to the hospital, and didn't need to see a doctor. He didn't get any medical attention. He got a fat lip and a few cuts.

At what point does a scuffle or a fist fight become life threatening? Seems to me after the fact Zimmerman was barely hurt - had a fat lip and some cuts.

Martin was teenager, 17; Zimmerman is a full grown man at age 28. Yes, he was an older man. You can still do math, right?

No, but I can read. I just posted what I thought happened, numbered and all, but this is what I "think" and is a "complete guess" being as I wasn't there, and also because one of the only two witnesses are dead.

Now what kind of stupid does someone have to be to walk up to and start a fight with someone they know is armed?

I'm sorry but your entire "opinion" on what took place is nothing short of completely fucking moronic. I don't know about you but if I see someone with a gun walking towards me then I sure as shit ain't going to walk up and start a fight with him. I mean, I know they teach you jarheads that you're bullet proof but that's just plain fucking retarded for anyone with half a functional brain cell.

Clearly someone with more balls than you.

I don't see you offering up a timeline skippy.

And yet Martin, a seventeen year old kid, beat up an older armed man. Go figure.

You said you are not watching the trial, so why do you think you have a clue as to what injuries he had? His nose was definitely bruised up and the skull had lumps and bruising. It changes from a fist fight to life threatening when one party starts using concrete as a weapon.



Why not try watching admissible evidence instead of reading hearsay?

Why do you think Martin knew Zimmerman was armed?

I have a feeling that Zimmerman and Martin met up, Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him and Zimmerman told him that he was suspicious looking (or something like this perhaps even asking him why he was in the area). Martin says fuck it and tries to walk away and Zimmerman grabbed him by the hoodie to try to keep him from leaving and that was potentially the catalyst that started the fight.

I don't know if Martin punched first or not. It could have been kind of a tussle where they were pushing and kind of wrestling. All it takes is one good shot to the face and most people will go down. After Martin got that shot off on Zimmerman he got on top of him and was working him over and that is when Zimmerman shot and killed him.

Obviously, there were no witnesses that saw how the fight started or how the confrontation occurred so we can only go off of guesses. According to the testimony Zimmerman said that Martin came up to him as he was heading back to his truck while Martin's friend said that Zimmerman approached Martin and Martin stopped walking to confront him and ask him why he was following him. It is hard to say which is accurate.

I'm sorry, I didn't clarify myself. What I really meant say was "I am not intentionally watching the trial nor do I have that kind of free time, however, I do watch bits here and there". I have watched the trial here and there. I've seen parts of the chick Martin was talking to when this all went down, one of the witnesses who saw the resulting scuffle, and the first police officer on the scene who arrested Zimmerman.

At the same time, I can read. I've read the defense's side, I've read the prosecution's side; I've read Zimmerman's statements. I've the police statements.

You are saying that his head was bashed on concrete, yet Zimmerman didn't need a doctor?

At the same time from the bond hearing one of the police officers stated he "questioned Zimmerman's statement that Martin was slamming his head against the sidewalk just before he shot the teenager, saying it was "not consistent with the evidence we found."



Again, I don't have the kind of free time have.

You ask the dumbest questions.

One would imagine that if someone had a firearm in their waistband it would stick out like a sore thumb, no? Maybe it was covered up under a jacket.

Then we have a statement from Zimmerman's father: "According to Zimmerman's father, during the struggle while Martin was on top of Zimmerman, Martin saw the gun his son was carrying"

Very well could be the case. Martin has an interesting history and wasn't an angel by any means.

But Martin isn't on trial here, Zimmerman is. And Zimmerman's history isn't greatest. To make it even more interesting, when arrested Zimmerman told police he has a "bad memory and takes medication for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder".

wow
It was raining, good chance everyone was wearing some type of jacket/sweater. And seeing the gun during the struggle would seem to hint that he was unaware until that point in time.

I just fucking pray 95% of the posters in this thread never sit on any jury I'm in front of.

I agree! You are smart and not prejudiced for laying out factual stuff! People deny facts for a reason, to deny they could be wrong is a emotional judgement of Zimmerman!

Wrong...sport...I followed all of the rules...including the rule to follow a stranger until he was welcomed into/entered a home...or until he left the community. We were instructed to call the cops only when a person acted suspiciously...and not to call just because a person was a stranger. We were instructed to avoid personal contact if at all possible. Clearly not all watches have identical rules to follow.

You sound innocent to me.

All he talks about is the Marines...a friend of the family has a retarded kid, all he talks about is being a cop.:2 cents:

http://www.sheriffs.org/content/nsa-...-nw-tragedy-fl
"The alleged action of a ?self-appointed neighborhood watchman? last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program,? stated NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.). ?NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program.?

There are Neighbor Hood Watches that are not registered with any organization. I am unaware if the watch that I was a member of was registered with any organization or not. Some neighbor hoods hire armed security guards and to my knowledge they do not register with any organization but some may.

I wrote some stuff. But then, I got a message that I was suppose
to push the back button.

I guess, it wasn't meant to be.

(not) forwarded to my (non-existent) lawyer for future jury selection cliff notes (even though I live in the UK) :thumbsup

I thought this sort of stuff only happened in books I read about off-the-wall towns Jack Reacher ends up in while hitch-hiking. I learn something new every day here :upsidedow

Haha he went from "innocent fan of skittles, stalked and brutally murdered" to "kid is kind of an asshole and picked a fight with arm armed man and lost"

So, regardless of whether or not Zimmerman is found innocent or guilty, what are the odds that he will then get hit with a wrongful death suit by Martin's parents?

Could we have another OJ situation on our hands where he is found not guilty of the criminal charges then loses the civil case?

Yes...of course...but winning civil cases and collecting much...if any...of the amount awarded are two different stories.

I've never heard of a neighborhood watch that has squad cars and shot guns. Sounds like overkill to me.

No shit.

They have different burdens of proof; it is a safe bet that some atty will talk them into a civil suit which will likely be settled out of court