Those are facts about how the legal system works in general. The only evidence of self defense is Zimmermans claim, and he's already been shown to be a liar.

I've not seen one Attorney on any show say the prosecution has no case, but then again I don't watch FOX News.

I'm not saying Martin had the right sucker punch anyone. I honestly believe that Martin threw threw the first punch. But you don't shoot and kill someone because they punch you in the face.

The very first blow can be fatal. If we operate with that in mind, we'll have to start shooting people BEFORE the first blow and call it "self defense".

This was a fist fight that ended up with some wrestling. Zimmerman was barely hurt.

EVERYBODY is a liar. You lie, I lie.

Fox News has nothing to do with this (not even sure where that came from in your statement).

I watch CNN. They've covered it from top to bottom. Every attorney on there has said the prosecution has done a terrible job. I can't name even one attorney that has said the prosecution is "winning" the case.

As I stated before...there is a reason the cops didn't even arrest GZ in the first place and the DA wouldn't bring charges. The whole thing was forced by the media.

I heard an interesting story today where a black preacher was asking WHY Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, and Pres. Obama aren't demanding justice for all the young black men being killed in Chicago?
They are being gunned down in cold blood.

But neither the media nor the black "leaders" give two shits about black-on-black crime.

I hadn't thought about that. But it's true.

Anyway, I guess we'll all see what happens over the next few days when the jury brings in their verdict.

Then, perhaps we can see if the news can report...actual NEWS instead of 24 hours a day coverage of this sensationalized trial.

As far as I can tell...the IRS targeting people is no longer a problem, the NSA spying on us is solved, and North Korea, Iran, Egypt, Afghanistan, Iraq, and that evil whistleblower Edward Snowden are not problems anymore.

At least if you watch the news. The ONLY thing that matters in the United States is George Zimmerman. :(

That is exactly what the Police themselves do everyday to unarmed citizens.

If you shoot someone and kill them, that is murder. Zimmerman shot and killed him. He is guilty of murder.

Self defense doesn't even apply here. He was punched. He didn't even need a doctor. He didn't get a single stitch. Fuck, I've tripped and fallen and ended up in the ER.

And he even defends them when it happens... but because it was Joe Citizen Neighborhood Patrol, now it's murder...

He shot and killed the kid. His wounds were not life threatening. He did not even need to see a doctor.

What more proof do you need?

Bullshit, troll.

Go read a book if you're really that blatantly ignorant.

You do realize that when you kill someone and claim self defense it is up to you to prove self defense....it's called an Affirmative Defense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_defense

Perhaps you should educate yourself.

A clear illustration of an affirmative defense is self defense.[3] In its simplest form, a criminal defendant may be exonerated if he can demonstrate that he had an honest and reasonable belief that another's use of force was unlawful and that the defendant's conduct was necessary to protect himself.

His nose is clearly broken. How in denial can you be when you are staring at the facts?

(CNN) -- A medical report by George Zimmerman's family doctor shows the neighborhood watch volunteer was diagnosed with a fractured nose, two black eyes and two lacerations on the back of the head after his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin.

A defendant never has the burden of proving anything...the burden of proof is always on the prosecution.

A defendant is not required to put on a defense at all...but an Affirmative Defense is an option if the defendant so chooses.

Guess you didn't look too hard...and what you stated is not true:







:stoned

ADG

Your words would have more impact if you made them larger!

What?? You clearly have no clue what affirmative defense is.

Probably did it to himself just to frame Trayvon :1orglaugh

I of course do know what an affirmative defense is...and I also know that a defendant is not required by law to prove anything ever...but the prosecution by law has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt every time.

His wounds do not have to be life threatening. Thats not what self defense is. Thats just your own conjecture and misguided specualation as to its relevance and attempting to add it as a relevant detail, which its not as far as the law is concerned.

His wounds are not relevant other than it shows there was an altercation and he was on the losing end of it and had cause to believe he was facing grave bodily harm.

ALL THAT MATTERS is what was going on in HIS MIND, when he pulled out the pistol and pulled the trigger.

YOU are the only one blathering on about his wounds. They are largely irrelevant. Furthermore, 8 witnesses have testified Zimmerman was screaming for help. 1 eye witness testified that Martin was on top of him beating the shit out of him

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY...

Zimmermans position is that Martin saw the gun, they both went for it and Zimmerman beat him to it and shot Martin.

Now... Here is why that is most important. YOU DON"T FUCKING KNOW IF THAT HAPPENED OR NOT. THE PROSECUTION DOESN'T KNOW. NO ONE KNOWS and evidence to that fact is circumstantial.

The prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt and at every step, there is literally NOTHING BUT DOUBT.

For you to pronounce someone guilty without being able to point to a single fact argued in court is beyond absurd and your waffling all over the place and irrational remarks is why so many think you can't be possibly be serious.

YOU BELIEVE he's guilty of second degree murder. The jury might agree, they might not. HOWEVER, the evidence does not support that. I have yet to hear any journalist in any major news network talking about how the Prosecution is just crushing it. They aren't. They are a mess and their case just isn't there. There wasn't case which is why he wasn't initially charged to begin with.

A kid getting shot does not mean it wasn't self defense. A kid getting shot (a kid bigger and in better shape than Zimmerman does not mean Zimmerman didn't have reason to believe he faced grave bodily harm as that kid was on top of him, pounding into him as he tried to defend himself before he lost steam and lost consciousness.

FURTHERMORE...he can't throw a punch? Let me help you from the experience of years of boxing, kickboxing and martial arts. You can't effectively punch from your back, on the ground. One would think that's common sense... but I just wanted to clarify since you seem to be so thick. Thats the whole point of passing the guard position, getting past the defenders legs and going into "ground and pound" mode as the eye witness testified Martin did. BECAUSE ZIMMERMAN CAN'T DEFEND HIMSELF IN THAT POSITION. Do you get that??? Do you sincerely not understand that if someone comes up to you, hits you with a strong enough blow to break your nose and drop you... that 1) you are highly unlikely to have the mental faculties to defend yourself... much less go on offense and 2) YOU CAN'T PUNCH FROM YOUR BACK.

You have not demonstrated ANYTHING to refute any of the claims of the defense or Zimmerman's story. You just keep making vague, emotional pleas and insisting that because Martin is dead, its murder, therefore Zimmerman is a murderer.

Thank fuck you're not in law enforcement or the military.


And for the record, I sincerely dont give a shit about Treyvon Martin, his death or whether or not George Zimmerman gets shanked in his cell tonight. No one does. People pretend to care but the simple horrible truth about everyone is that you don't care about either of them. There were 350 or so kids murdered in Detroit alone last year. Does anyone know a name? A face? Of course not. The truth is that if you say you care about Treyvon Martin, you are full of shit. Otherwise, feel free to tell me about the scholorship fund you set up in his name... or the 1000s of dollars you donated to his family, or about your lobbying efforts for new legislation... i'm all ears.

No one is more full of shit in this world, than people who claim they care.

And by the way Rochard, why people think you are trolling is that you have zero ability to argue with logic and reason.... You state over and over that Zimmerman started the "confrontation" by virtue of the fact that he was following (i guess you still haven't looked up the definition of "confrontation")... then later go on to say something like "if someone was following me, i'd confront them too" - in spite of arguing again and again that they would have already "confronted" you, by following you... which makes no sense.

When everyone is saying "wow, you must be trolling" - that is pretty strong evidence that you need to step back and start wondering why that is.

Dude, you're wasting your time. People like Rochard and Richard and a few others don't give a shit about the facts, or lack thereof. By now it's clear they are either badly trolling or are completely fucking ignorant.

I bet 10 to 1 that if GZ does manage to walk, he'll get murdered in cold blood very soon after, and Rochard will be talking about how justice was served...

Someone in my house coming at me, is enough for me to fear my life. Doesn't even have to land a punch.....

No, not every time.

Go kill someone, claim self defense and expect to not have to prove it. See how far that gets ya.

Affirmative Defense means yes, I committed this crime but here's why. Not 'yes I committed this crime but its up to the state to prove why'.

Rochard is trolling because he is a sig whore and that is what sig whores do...but he is also ignorant.

Mentioning it a few times...as opposed to having rallys, Sharpton and Jackson flying down to Sanford and appearing at press conferences with the Martin family. A black congesswoman saying on national t.v. that "Trayvon was hunted down and murdered" and MSNBC using the word "lynching".

That's a HUGE difference. I'm sure you can see that.

IF Sharpton, Jackson, and even the President were to go to Chicago and start raising hell about this then the media would follow them and something would be done.

But they don't.

It's easy to see the difference in effort by them. One black kid killed by a Hispanic guy. And it's now the biggest thing in the news.

Hundreds of black kids killed by other black kids. How often are you hearing about that on the news? Seriously.

Hunting down a handful of youtube clips of Obama and some black leaders saying how bad things are in Chicago is not anywhere close to the frenzy over this trial.

:1orglaugh

"This is what I think happened...now prove your innocence!"


I'm pretty sure it's "innocent until proven guilty", not the other way around.

I don't think Rochard is trolling. I think he's a right brain thinker, viewing the events, outcome and discussion through the prism of abstract thought and emotions. I suspect there is some other emotional reaction being triggered with him as well which is adding to the emotion he is responding with. Emotion, is the enemy of reason. I am very left brain in my thinking. Emotions for me aren't a factor. Race isn't a factor. My feelings about either person involved in the incident is not a factor. What i am interested in are the facts. The facts, as they pertain to the charge of 2nd Degree Murder in Florida. The facts and whether or not the prosecution has proven them beyond a reasonable doubt and whether or not they are able to do that. I'm definitely not alone in the idea that the prosecution has been a complete mess since day 1....that, to me has made it more interesting. The "facts" are not there. The evidence is circumstantial. The hard evidence like eye witness to the fights, the phone calls, the wounds on each party and so on, all seem to corroborate Zimmerman's story, which is why he wasn't' charged to begin with.

What is interstesting about Rochard is this...

He is basically a guy that starts the conversation by proclaiming himself to be the best driver ever. He then gets in the car, starts it, puts it into drive...pulls out into traffic and right from the start, almost every single other vehicle around him is honking their horns and flipping him off. Yet he seems to be wholly incapable of even considering that fact, points to the 3 people that didn't honk their horn and flip him off as evidence that he's a great driver. As he gets into near miss after near miss with other cars, he keeps talking about what an awesome driver he is because he hasn't had an accident in years. At the end, everyones just genuinely confused and thinks he just has to be joking because denial can't possibly run this deep.

The fact is that is how denial works right up to the end. The human mind is a fascinating thing and our brains are full of shit and lying to us most of the time.

It's irrelevant to me that someone died. All that is relevant to me is how does the prosecution prove in that final few seconds what Zimmerman was thinking. Thats all this case is about. I personally don't see how that's possible or that it has happened. Every single aspect of the case practically is based on circumstantial evidence and speculation. Everyone that knows Zimmerman has testified that he was a pillar of the community and a big fat pussy that is incapable of hurting anyone. Those facts have not been refuted by the prosecution.

I disagree. I think the are both very predatory and opportunistic. Particularly Sharpton who really has no redeeming qualities and who's best days where 40 years ago.

They aren't in the Detroit for example trying to prevent a murder a day in the black community because their is literally nothing in it for them. When they can go to a case like this one that's getting national and global press and cry "racism", the payoff is much greater. Otherwise, how are they going to benefit by going to black communities and saying "stay with your wife, raise your children, emphasize education and values". Not as salable as "nothing is your fault".

To make decisions based upon logic only, without any emotion, is to be inhuman...sort of like Spock from Star Trek.

There can never be only one or the other. However, people do tend to look at thing primarily through the prism of one of the other. Very few people equally utilize both hemispheres in routine cognitive processes. However, that's also possible as its be proven to be largely preference and a thing of habit, that can be changed.

So Zimmerman is denying shooting Martin? What do you think the state has to prove?

Are you mentally retarded? Serious question.

You keep trying to get us to think that you have suddenly started watching the trial, yet come up with the most inane commentary. I doubt anyone believes you are actually "listening" to anything being said. :2 cents:

Luckily for the entire country, what Rochard "thinks is the evidence" does not apply . . . ever.

The problem being that you apparently have no idea the definition of murder.

As evidence to my statement above. That is not the definition of murder in any society I am aware of.

I have to presume you are not a citizen of the US or you should seriously consider suing your local school system for allowing you to graduate . . . presuming you did.

The state has to prove he committed second degree murder.

Damn.. haha.

I have to presume the same about you. Again, go kill someone, admit you did it and tell the state 'you must prove why I did it'. Go get some sleep old man.

Sweet Jesus, are you fucking kidding me? :helpme

But that scenario you just stated ("go kill someone") doesn't take into account what actually happened. Zimmerman didn't just go out and kill someone. He was the neighborhood watch in a community that has been having several home robberies. He saw a man with a hoodie up in people's yards at night in that neighborhood. He called the police. He got out and followed on foot and got his ass beaten and then shot the guy in what he described as self-defense.

But you knew all that already right? You knew the cops didn't arrest him right? You knew the state didn't even press any charges right? You knew that they only pressed charges AFTER the media started airing black leaders calling for Zimmerman to be arrested and did so out of fear of riots. Right?

And because you already knew all that...you're just picking on baddog. :1orglaugh

Some really entertaining topics today. And I am only following two.

You wanna know how I know you're mentally retarded?

You don't have a very firm grasp of the legal system, do you?

He might be from Northern Pakistan.

I believe that the aforementioned black leaders are more concerned about the situation in Chicago than they are about the verdict in the Trayvon Martin murder trial. I know that I am.

Aside from the media that is willing to serve up whatever gets ratings and pays for ads, it seems that Zimmerman's defenders are the ones mostly in a frenzy these days.

Anyone interested in learning more about the problems in Chicago and elsewhere can get informed/involved:









What are your suggestions for helping to end the gun violence in Chicago and around the US?

:stoned

ADG

Why does it have to be GUN violence instead of ALL violence?

Yes Just Alex, I do. Do you?

Take away all the legal guns, obviously... Oh, wait, doesn't Chicago have some of the strictest gun laws in the country, along with New York? How's that working out I wonder.

Yeah, I was as surprised as the next person that they didn't offer up any description of the real shooter, you would have thought that the defense attorneys would have told the court whom they suspected the real shooter was.

I'm guessing we will never find out and this will go the way of the JFK shooting...

Idiot :1orglaugh

If this thread is a recipe for chicken chow mein, I think I've done something wrong :Oh crap

I'm not Just Alex.

And to answer your question...no, not really. But I'm F. Lee Bailey compared to you.

More of a grasp than by how many degrees fahrenheit goes up by if there is a 2 - 4C rise I hope :winkwink:

Yes...I have a suggestion...turn the cops loose on the gangs...much as Chief Darly Gates did at one point in time in L.A.and just as has been done in New York City at one point in time.

I was going to mention affirmative defense days ago but I knew most of the tards on here would react just like they have. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh