Mishandled at what point? At the point that the investigating officers did not see a reason to charge Zimmerman?at the point that the police chief saw no reason to charge him? At the point that the state prosecutor saw no reason to charge him? At the point that the governor got involved, got the city manager to fire the police chief and then appointed special investigators to force a trial? The point where they charged him with an unprovable crime? The point where they asked for 3rd degree murder and child abuse?

A person died and its horrible but there is nothing's that's happened so far that can be called "justice"

Tony...you have too much time on your hands man! Get a hobby or something. :1orglaugh

That part is bullshit by those cops. No way that if a cop patrolling a neighborhood that has been robbed repeatedly over the last few weeks saw a guy in a hoodie walking up in people's yards at night that he wouldn't have stopped and asked him what he was doing.

He absolutely would have.

Hell, when I was a teenager in Bartow, Fla. me and my buddies were always out walking the streets at night on the weekends. And anytime the cops saw us they hassled us.

Anybody with a brain would be distrustful of a teenage boy (or worse...a group of them) on the streets after dark.

I remember my own years as a teenager. There is NOTHING more dangerous than a teenage boy. I thought I was invincible. I was violent. I was destructive. And the worst thing: I didn't give a fuck about anything.

I don't know about you guys...but looking back when I was young, from say 15 to 25 or so...I don't know how I didn't get killed.

Robbie, what you think or what I think is entirely irrelevant. I watched as lead detective Serino testified that he would NOT have thought that Trayvon Martin, doing what Zimmerman said he was doing, was suspicious and he would NOT have even stopped to ask him questions. He was then asked why not and he replied that he might have lived there, he might have been looking for something, "he may have been just walking home" and there is more if you care to go watch it I guess that you can.

He was ALSO baffled by George never ONCE saying he was with neighborhood watch.. not once and he had all those opportunities. This is the lead detective, not me or my opinion, he said it. So did his partner in the second interview who's name I forget. Neither of them understood why he did what he did that night and they had the first close contacts with him in terms of the investigation.

So you can SAY "oh bullshit they absolutely would have" or whatever words you feel like saying, but you and I both know it's meaningless. The man already spoke for himself, under oath, on the witness stand, in this case. Kind of trumps our armchair lawyering.

yea it took all that for some dude to be charged with 2nd degree murder gunning down a teenager going into the back of his house

you seriously think there shouldn't be a trial?

From the very first point.

Why didn't Zimmerman identify himself as a member of the Neighborhood Watch? Early on Martin circles Zimmerman's truck; They were within a few feet of each other. He couldn't roll the window and identify himself?

They don't need to arrest you for a crime directly after it took place. In same cases they can investigate more in depth first before considering charging people. In some cases they bring in the district attorney's office, don't they?

Well, isn't that the governor's job? When his citizens are nearly threatening to riot shouldn't step in and insist another look be taken?

I don't give a rat's ass about this. The case went through the justice system, and eventually someone somewhere for whatever reason decided to press charges.

That's. The. Way. Our. Legal. System. Works.

Sure there is. An armed man stalked a kid for seventeen minutes, even after the kid ran away from him. He killed him. He needs to pay for this. Period.

If Zimmerman stayed in his truck and waited for the police, none of this would have happened. Instead, he went out with a firearm and TWO flashlights to play police officer.

Was he really walking through peoples' yards the whole time or was he just doing that to get away from Zimmerman (who never identified himself as being with the neighborhood watch) and what witnesses are there to this other than Zimmerman?

I completely agree about a teen walking through a neighborhood with a hoodie. But wasn't it also raining? I think that would make it a lot less suspicious.

According to Wikipedia here are Zimmerman's words in a call to the police:

Wikipedia then goes on...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...Trayvon_Martin

It really looks like he was being profiled because of either or both of his color and age. There is not any evidence to show that Trayvon Martin was walking around to commit a crime. Instead it seems he was simply walking home from the store.

What many white people may not be understanding is that a case like this may make a parent think twice about whether their son is now safe walking home at night because he might fit a certain profile and end up shot by an overzealous neighborhood watch volunteer who thinks he is a criminal. People (especially minorities) think "What if that were my son?"

On the other hand if Martin would have gone home...like his lady friend on the phone with him told him to do...instead of telling her no and then confronting Zimmerman instead...he would be alive now...wouldn't he?

Your arguments are weak when you have mischaracterize and distort facts and you ignore even the most fundamental facts of the case when you are resorting to the use of words like "stalked" and "gunned down".

And by the way... First "stalker" in history to "stalk" his prey WHILE talking to a 911 operator.

That's some shitty stalking.

No she told him to run and he said no. He continued walking. eantel says she heard Martin talking to Zimmerman in the background of the call.
"He said, 'Why are you following me for?' And I heard a hard-breathing man say, 'What you doing around here?'" said Jeantel.
I doubt he was hiding behind the bush to spring. How could you jump someone by surprise and talk to them?

I find the "hard breathing man" part interesting as well. Was Zimmerman out of breath because:

a) He was following/running after Trayvon Martin

or

b) He was in a fight or flight mode and prone to overreacting because he falsely thought Trayvon was a hardcore criminal?

could it be all the adderal and temazepam he was prescribed?

too bad no one thought to drug test the dude who just murdered someone

well, if it is on wikipedia why the fuck are we waiting for a jury verdict?

Had the media, defense and state understood that a fruity Canadian had it all figured out, there wouldn't even be a trial.

hi.

do you believe there shouldn't be a trial?

yes or no will suffice

When this is over I will send a link to this thread to every state's Attorney General and inform them that we have a possible solution to their existing case loads and budget constraints.

Under Florida's self defense law...NO. That is what the initial decision was by the District Attorney's office after the police had presented him/her with all of their evidence...even though one detective said they might have enough evidence for a manslaughter case ...because the DA decided it was justifiable homicide under Florida's self defense law or that their was not enough evidence to convict.

No verdict today

It's actually a very good read and largely unbiased unlike most of the posts and news stories you read about it. Some things on Wikipedia didn't make it to the trial

He stalked the kid. He followed him for seventeen minutes even though 911 told him not to.

You follow me around in the dark for seventeen minutes and I will get defensive too.

Followed and stalking are hardly the same thing. One is a simple statement of fact, another paints an inaccurate and inflammatory picture of predator and prey. You can only accurately say Zimmerman followed him and that is not in dispute.

And it's quite clear with the phone calls that he was following him to guide police to him and he was on the phone with the operator almost the entire time.

And 911 did not tell him not to... They themselves testified to that fact and that is just another distortion of the facts on your part

I can and do say the cop is full of shit. AND...if I lived in a city with a neighborhood that was getting burglarized and a cop said that...I would be livid and calling city hall demanding he be fired for not doing his job.

Why do you think that might be?

Read the article and see. It tells you that some things weren't permitted to be brought before the jury such as part of Martin's past and part of Zimmerman's past. It's a really good article. I'm about 80% through it.

EDIT: Oh. Sorry. You said WHY not WHAT. I don't know. There are different reasons. Wikipedia may not be perfect but I usually find it less biased than what people tend to post on forums.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...7 s_character

So Zimmerman probably isn't a racist unlike many of his supporters. He still (based on the audio tapes) seemed to be assuming that Martin was a criminal and up to no good though.

I will answer it for you . . . because it is made up of hearsay . . . it is not evidence, thus not relevant.

It's stuff like this. Though I get that you don't like Wikipedia.

Yep, looks like both Zimmerman and Trayvon were a couple of average young men who do stupid shit sometimes but overall were "okay".

The man was not a police officer but was an undercover alcohol agent in civilian clothes in a bar and Zimmerman shoved him when he grabbed...his friend...so the alcohol agent loaded him up on charges.

Didn't I say it was not relevant?

:thumbsup:thumbsup

especially with your final destination being your home?

damn he shoved a police officer and is still able to walk?

commendable

Keep in mind that cops put whatever they want on their reports. Here in the U.S. you can look at a cop the wrong way and they will beat your ass and say you eye-fucked them. :1orglaugh

But seriously...a lot of cops act like mini-Gods (because they have been given so much power by the U.S. Supreme Court since the "war on drugs" started) and they will treat you like a dog.

If you even ask them "what did I do?" they will nail you for "Obstruction Of Justice".

Most times when you go to court on that kind of thing it gets dismissed because the judges treat the cops like spoiled children who misbehave and try to smooth shit over.

That's the good part of the story.
The bad part is that the cops usually hurt you physically AND throw you in jail for the night.

yea fair enough. still it's crazy that there is a report of him actually assaulting a police officer and no one bats an eye lol

i grew up in white-bread vancouver canada.

we know not to touch cops. lol

When you follow someone in the dark and in the rain for seventeen minutes and chase them when they run and then kill them, that's no longer "following" them. That's stalking.

And? Martin wasn't a saint.

No one is saying he was. But he was shot and killed to death returning home from the store with a bag of skittles.

Strange, I've never felt that way when dealing with the police.

Maybe it's you?

but but.. black people have super human powers

they can't 'be stalked'

much like chuck norris can't 'be stalked'

You keep saying "chase" and "stalking". Where did you come up with this? Zimmerman never said he was chasing anyone or was stalking...and Martin never said that Zimmerman was chasing or stalking him...according to testimony.

Did you just pull it out of your ass?

Didn't watch the trial did you...sport? The girl that Martin was on the phone with when Martin confronted Zimmerman...testified that Martin said he was being followed by a creepy ass cracker...not chased...not stalked.

i love how people have cobbled together their own versions of the entire episode that they now truly believe is the truth/fact, for them that's how it went down.

i have a couple scenarios i think are the most likely but who knows, the evidence that exists isn't high quality evidence for either side's version of the the story but for Zimmerman that works to his advantage, he only needs to prove reasonable doubt that the prosecution's version of events is wrong.

tragic event - Trayvon wasn't jumped and taken down to the ground, he could have ignored the 'creepy cracker', told him he lived in one of the townhouses and ran home and inside and called his dad about being followed by a white guy. honestly, i am sure every black kid gets profiled/followed all the time - i know i got followed when i was young and looked like a punk, unshaven and long hair.

Here's the instructions to the jury:

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/nationa...an-jury/nYnqZ/

After reading them I'm not sure what I would go with.

NOT GUILTY is tempting because there seems to be some reasonable doubt. However, it is not in dispute at all that Zimmerman shot and killed Martin. Only whether or not it was Justifiable Homicide.

Note that word FELONY.

If you believe Zimmerman and that Trayvon reached for his gun and threatened to kill him that would definitely be a felony as well as a possible attempt to murder. But Zimmerman's injuries don't seem to demonstrate felony battery at all. His injuries are consistent with a minor bar fight.

So I guess the question is whether you believe Zimmerman where there is no one to collaborate his story beyond being on the ground and crying out for help (which I believe this part due to the other witness).

I see elements from his statements which make me doubt his credibility (for example that he wasn;t following him - just going in the same direction). The jury could do the same thing. Once you toss out his statements about Trayvon allegedly reaching for his gun and once you see the assault as being a misdemeanor (fairly mild and without risk of life long permanent injury - Zimmerman refused to go to the hospital afterwards) then there is an absence of any felony with which to make it "justifiable homicide".

1 is obvious
2 and 3 I have problems with. I would not convict him of this.

1. is obvious
2. I could do. Absent the justifiable Homicide defense I think I could convict him of manslaughter. But I could only do that if I saw Zimmerman as not being credible.

EDIT: In addition it's questionable whether Trayvon was committing a crime at all and not acting in self defense himself. So that casts even more doubt on the idea that a "felony" was being committed against GZ. Unless I miss something, also as mentioned, felony battery goes way beyond GZ's injuries which would not demonstrate this at all.

Yeah, you met me. You think it's just me and I'm making shit up.
Grandfather was the chief of police in my home town. Mom was a deputy sheriff. Brother is a cop. Two cousins are cops.

One of my best friends for 17 years is a deputy sheriff.

I think I know law enforcement mentality and the shit that they can get away with and DO get away with doing to people. And I also know the way they like to laugh about it and trade stories of fucking people up.

Please don't insult me and insinuate I'm lying or something. That's just dumb.

So answer me this oh wise one... Why didn't Martin use those 17 minutes to get to where he was going*? You keep pretending as if only one of them made bad choices, that one being GZ. But had Martin taken all that time he had to just go where he was going* instead of trying to be a tough little 'gangsta' then he'd still be alive today now wouldn't he?

*By the way, Martin was NOT going home, as he did not live there.

Wait... You're not buying the idea that a would be murder spent almost the entire time guiding police to the location of the person he was going to kill, then made his move with police just right around the corner? All murderers wait until the police are right on top of them before confronting a total stranger, starting a fist fight... then losing it, then getting their nose broke, face beat up and head cut up... just so they can shoot them seconds before police round the corner. That my friend, is a perfectly credible version of events.

You guys are really spending way too much time dealing with facts.

I am trying to decide if the jury quitting for the day is a good thing for GZ or not. If they were close to a decision they probably would have continued . . . at least that is the impression I get.

I can't imagine putting my life in the hands of 6 women; that is some scary shit.