This is my point. I don't care about race, who is black or who is Hispanic. If this was my daughter walking home from the store, minding her own business, and was chased down by an overzealous self appointed ARMED block captain of a community watch program.... and shot and killed... I would be sitting on death row too.

It's possible that both of them were acting in self defense. However, Zimmerman was armed AND chased this kid down.

:thumbsup :thumbsup im waiting for my jamaican hot chocolate pepper plants. my buckets are ready my soil it will calm me down :)

Right, so manslaughter. He created an event that led to the death of someone, without that being his initial intent :2 cents:

Not guilty.

well when he said "they always get away with it" i think it switch from manslaughter. im no lawyer so i really dont know which way it will go. I suspect they will just let him slide. some people will be killed in random areas some things burned and life will move on.

I don't think they will be able to hold a murder charge on him for what led up to the shooting. It only matters if he shot in self defense at that moment.

At least that's my internet lawyer thoughts.

IMO he will be found innocent of murder in this criminal case, but I bet he would be guilty in a civil lawsuit.

One thing is certain and that is the gun caused far more problems than it solved.

when you chase someone that is fleeing how is that self defense? :helpme :Oh crap

Hmm, I can't agree there. I think that's one hell of a huge jump to take it he intended to kill the guy, whether he meant 'black' or 'burglar' or 'criminal' in the context of 'they'. I could no way convict someone of murder over manslaughter on that point - it isn't evidence, it's opinion, and second-guessing when it comes to the clinical business of going by evidence only is a dangerous thing, imho.

Which, really, negates my own statement of even doing the bloke for manslaughter - you absolutely cannot 'prove' genuine self-defence, nor lack of it.

Maybe so, and that's just humans being too fucking stupid to understand that the whole point of civilised trials is to *prove*, beyond a reasonable doubt (any doubt is reasonable, again, imho) absolute guilt. No probablys, no maybes, etc, but 100% rock solid proof :2 cents:

It wasn't, but like he said, *in that moment* it was, regardless that the dumb cunt created that moment in the first place.

Shame that martins (sp) didn't have a CCP or whatever it is, he coulda shot the stupid cunt zimmerman, completely righteously, and there'd be no court case. As it is, zimmerman has created the entire initial and subsequent events, and is, legally correctly, going to walk.

Right. The 911 call says almost everything anyone needs to know. It says he was there to patrol a neighborhood. He saw a suspicious person. He did the correct thing and called the police immediately. He indicates that he wasn't even aware of Martins race before he place the call... only confirming it as Martin walked toward him before running off. He then was trying to keep Martin in sight (who was trying to evade him) as police were on their way and he could direct them to Martin. He was calm, he was professional. He was doing his job. Instead of Martin, simply asking "whats going on" as its quite clear what a neighborhood patrol office is watching him for as well as being clear who he is... he walks up to him, says something, then punches him, jumps on top of him, punching him and beating his head against the concrete as Zimmerman cries for help.

You are reacting with overly vague and emotional arguments... not arguments rooted in fact.

The very fact that you keep using the word "stalked" says you have little to no clue what the facts are and are intentionally trying to distort events.

I like how brassmonkey cant put two coherent sentences to keep up intelligent conversation with baddog, yet he keep coming back into this topic with more and more idiotic and racist shit. Don't you have some bell peppers to "move".

How is walking up to someone, punching them, jumping on top of them and punching them while banging their head into the sidewalk - when he was not a threat "self defense"? Its not. Its a felony assault. That's why Martin is wrong and the facts show Zimmerman was right to shoot him.

Did zimmerman identify himself as neighbourhood watch at any point? Any official ID? Any ID at all?

Is there any fact which proves martin knew zimmerman was not just some nutjob?

He may not be guilty of murder imo, but he isn't some poor innocent 'victim' in all this, that's for damn sure. I'd be interested to know the answers to the above, without me having to go look for them :D

Do you know for 100% certainty that this is how it went down?

My understanding is that nobody saw how the two ended up in a confrontation or how the fight started. All we have is Zimmerman's side of the story.

What if it really went down the other way around? What if Zimmerman continued to follow Martin who finally stopped and asked why Zimmerman was following him? Zimmerman says a few things and Martin decides to leave. Zimmerman grabs him and holds him, trying to detain him and that is how the fight starts. If it goes down that way with Zimmerman as the aggressor do you still feel the same way?

ok your on notice just alex. im going to avoid you and you do the same. Don't know you dont want to know you. gfy staff have been notified. enough :2 cents:

Zimmerman was a member of the "neighborhood watch". He was not a police officer, not even a security officer; He was a civilian armed with a firearm. He had no more authority than the Sheldon Cooper bobblehead on my desk here. '

His "job" (which was more of a community responsibility) was to watch and report - Not pick up his handgun, chase down an innocent teenager, and shoot and kill him.

He called the police and continued to follow Martin. When Martin ran, he gave chase - even after 911 told him not to chase him.

And? One man followed and then chased another man, a teen, and then shot and killed him. I don't believe Zimmerman planned on killing someone that night, and I don't believe that Zimmerman was out to harress a black kid.

It was not Zimmerman's "job". Zimmerman is a civilian and has zero authority here.

It was not clear that Zimmerman was part of the "neighborhood watch" being as they don't have uniforms or badges and zero authority.

I'm not "overly vague" and am not reacting with "emotional arguments". What happened is an armed man chased an innocent teen and shot and killed him. Zimmerman has admitted as much. Zimmerman called police, reported the kid, followed him, and then when Martin ran he gave chase.

He stalked the kid.

Zimmerman was in his car when he first spotted Martin. He stopped his car, pulled over to watch him. When Martin attempted to leave the scene, Zimmerman not only got out of his car but also followed him on foot. When Martin ran, Zimmerman chased him.

Here's how I define stalking:

Any unwanted contact between two people [that intends] to directly or indirectly communicates a threat or places the victim in fear.

Martin was in fear of his life because a full grown man was acting suspicious, pulled over his car, had followed him, and chased him when Martin ran.

There nothing official about a neighborhood watch at all. There is no uniform, no ID, no badge, and authority at all. Neighborhood watch members aren't supposed to be armed, and surely aren't supposed to confront anyone.

We don't. All we have is Zimmerman's side of the story. All witnesses seem to report is two men rolling around in the grass fighting.

Claiming "self defense" doesn't fly for me. Zimmerman was an adult, was armed, and confronted Martin. We don't know who threw the first punch, but at no time was Zimmerman "in danger for his life". He had a few cuts.

These damn racists. If victim was white would white community flip out?

Gotcha. Like I say, I don't think it's murder, and he should walk from that charge, but how anyone can defend what he did, I just can't grasp. Not that I need to of course, everyone is entitled to think what they think, regardless of whether I agree with it. But yeah, no matter if martin *was* a scumbag etc, he had no idea who zimmerman was, and that *is* a fact :2 cents:

if someone killed your child would you flip the fuck out? :2 cents: what are they suppose to do in your eyes? :disgust

You again, are 100% wrong. The sole eye witness Jonathan Good, already testified that Zimmerman was on bottom, Martin was on top. Zimmerman was yelling for help. Martin was beating the hell out of him. Additionally, all wounds on both parties support that version. The only reason he did not see the shooting was because he ran back inside and called the police. That call was also heard in court in its entirety.

All you're "armed"/"not armed" etc type arguments are 100% irrelevant to him calling the police, following Martin to guide the police to him and Martin then approaching him and attacking him and beating the shit out of him. You can't attack someone and be in the right when you have the option of walking in the opposite direction. Someone following you and being on the phone is not an imminent threat.... where someone physically attacking you and then being on top of you, slamming his head into the concrete is.

And by the way, i went through something similar where I almost beat someone to death with a pistol. He broke into my house, he attacked me first with a knife (someone i knew - and he was high on coke) and i just happened to have a .357 within arms reach, pushed him away and grabbed the gun, flipped the lights on and told him if he didn't walk away i was going to drop him. He charged me, knife in hand, threatening to kill me and instead of shooting, I hit him of the head with the pistol. He continued to try to stab me and i hit him, cutting his head open enough that he covered the whole place in blood before the police arrived. Because he was a bit immature - much like many people here, he started trying to explain why he was right. The police only had one question to him... "was he between you and the door?... no?,... you're under arrest". You can't argue that you are being attacked when you have the option of going in the opposite direction. Simple stuff.

The time leading up to that moment were completely irrelevant to the moment of the altercation. What my job was, why i was there, why he was there and so on is 100% irrelevant when it comes to the actual assault.

It's what happened in that exact moment that matters. That is what the case is about. Was Zimmerman justified in pulling out his pistol and shooting Martin. You have yet to explain why he wasn't based on the facts. You just keep making vague assertions as to his job, his job description, usuing inflammatory words like "stalking" (ignoring that he was talking to 911 almost the whole time) etc which is not relevant to the moment of him being attacked and having someone pound your head into the concrete.

You just don't want to understand and accept that.


And lets flip this around.

Your child was attacked. The dude is kicking his ass. Hes crying for help. He's getting beaten severely and feels he might be killed by his attacker. He pulls out a pistol and puts one round in his attacker. You going to call your child a murderer? Of course not. I rest my case.

We were talking about whole community (as in millions of people) not about family :warning

Says you.

I live in a very large master planned community that covers about five square miles. The neighborhood watch is armed, organized and even trained by the local PD and FD. There are mandatory gun safety classes and firing range practice that need to be attended every month.

Didn't you do just that last time? I don't reply to your idiotic messages. You're the one following me around with your one liners and smilies. So fuck off! Andget a fucking life. Just don't do it at my expense, retard :2 cents:

My girlfriend also lives in a gated community and there are signs everywhere warning that security patrols are armed - all in white vehicles, clearly marked with yellow lights. I guess they are afraid of Jews or Indians or Asians or something.

Allow me a question.

If you start a fight with someone and that person starts to get the better of you and you find yourself losing that fight, do you you have the right to shoot and kill that person in self defense?

so over a million blacks are out to get zimmerman? you better notify the police :helpme who were the people that were holding signs and protesting peacefully? aliens? :Oh crap

http://i.usatoday.net/news/_photos/2...5A-x-large.jpg

some people will deal with it with violence. :2 cents:

That guy is full of shit. He said he saw Zimmerman getting "MMA style ground and pounded" by Trayvon Martin. How the fuck would Zimmerman have been able to get to his gun if he was being straddled and beaten in that fashion? He wouldn't have been able to. Zimmerman should've joined a boxing gym instead of a gun club and this whole thing would've been avoided. Either that or taken his beating like a man and called it a night. The problem is that white suburbanites are giant fucking pussies who don't give a shit about their neighbors. Look at this guy Good, instead of breaking the fight up he cowers behind his front door saying, "What's going on out there? Stop it. I'm calling the police." If Trayvon Martin tried that shit in my neighborhood he'da gotten stomped by everybody on the block.

There is zero evidence to suggest that Zimmerman "started a fight". Following someone while on the phone with 911 and trying to guide police to them is not "starting a fight". There is evidence to suggest that Martin started a fight and climbed on top of him and continued to beat him as he cried for help. That evidence includes an eye witness which testified to that. Manslaughter? Possibly. 2nd degree murder? Not a chance.

As for your irrelevant hypothetical which not only lacks specific facts but that relies heavily on state law, i would say this. You are a smart guy. You are aware that at the end of the day, you generally have to prove you thought your life was in imminent danger or that you faced serious bodily harm. It's what was happening at that exact moment that matters.

Are you that stupid? I was reffering to the fact that africans in US are extremely racist. If that was purely for justice would those people from that picture come in these protests if Trayvon was a white kid?

The wounds each have show exactly that. Martins knuckles scraped up with zero other physical marks. Zimmermans face busted up and back of head busted up.

How do you pull a gun out? You reach down and grab it when the opportunity presents itself. Thats not much of a magic act.


Opps!...

"New witness accounts also emerged Thursday. A witness, whose name is redacted, told investigators he saw ?a black male, wearing a dark colored hoodie,? on top of a white or Hispanic male who was yelling for help."

are you stupid??? its not what if :disgust

Now you got him all confused and into hiding. Questions like yours get them all confused and even more angry at their own stupidity and lack rationale .

Again your walls of text fail to mention that there is zero evidence that Martin started the fight only that Martin at some point got the upper hand. When did that eye witness say he saw Martin turn and attack Zimmerman? Never. He did witness the fight which Martin was winning.

regardless of what happened:

HE
NEEDS
TO
DO
TIME

Can you imagine the fucked up precedent it would set if he is acquitted? It would be OK to stalk and terrorize someone - then murder them if they happen to start kicking your ass?

No they wouldnt. There wouldnt need to be any protest to bring charges on Zimmerman. Its a shame American Blacks still have to resort to those tactics to get fair treatment in a small amount of cases. If there were no protest or Martins parents didnt care, you would have never heard or cared about this case.

Where is the evidence that Zimmerman chased him?

Facts don't matter to Richard.

Oh man, that sounds scary

just hang up the phone dogg. :2 cents:

In florida it may be possible. In the minds of gfyers and their racially slanted brethren, it makes sense.

I am not 100% wrong; I didn't say there wasn't any witnesses, I said no one saw who started it. I don't care who was on top or who was beating who; All of this boils down to who started it. The only two people that know are Zimmerman and Martin, and one of them is dead.

Zimmerman has no defense. He can't claim "self defense" or "stand your ground"; He was the attacker. If I hit you over the head with a brick and you hit me back, I can't claim "self defense" if I shoot you. His injuries were also less than life threatening. At the same time you can't claim "stand your ground" AFTER you CHASED someone two blocks.

At the very least Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter.

I'm re-thinking my plans for tonight. Maybe I should just stay home.

http://stickygooeycreamychewy.com/wp...ting-nails.jpg

you don't know the whole story. :2 cents:

I just said something similar in another post just now. He can't claim "self defense"; He was armed and intentionally put himself into the situation.

This wasn't even life threatening. He walked away with a bloody lip and a few cuts.

You say there were no witnesses and we don't know who started it.... then in the next paragraph you state as fact that Zimmerman was the attacker, when all evidence presented so far in court shows nothing like that. In fact all evidence so far in court, matches Zimmerman's account of what happened. From the injuries to the fact that Martin was on top pounding away.

Do you have evidence that Zimmerman then was the attacker? Because following a guy around while waiting for the police to show up is not "attacking." If there is some evidence or witness that I missed stating that Zimmerman started the attack, please let me know, as I have missed that part.

Next he's going to be screaming that Michael Jackson was a model babysitter.

Thanks for offering facts. You've cleared up a great deal with this well thought out, lucid and complete rebuttal.

i bet he didn't even let him know who he was. why the hell would he say a creepy ass cracka was following him about a guy that said "im with the block watch do you live here?" trayvon says yes may i ask what unit? if he doesnt get the number just write his name down. contact complex manager the next day :2 cents:

im talking about just alex not the case sorry about that