Facts my ass...this entire post is just more of your ignorant pigshit.

More advanced than me. Yeah, I know, I base my views of the World having travelled and lived all over the World. Maybe one day I'll come around to "researching" on Youtube as opposed to real life experience. Do you even have a passport?

You're a flat out joke.

There are certainly plenty of people out there who wouldn't make good judges. Patience, courage and wisdom make for a good start

Overall, I'm pleased that you take part in these threads, it means you're having to think about the events of that day. Each time you enter one of these threads you'll no doubt learn something new, like most will; this is a step in the right direction. :thumbsup

I'm not saying and didn't say the US government was behind it, so I don't see why I'd have to put up any kind of "evidence" they were behind it.

Over and over I've said I'm not out to point fingers or place blame, that's just ultimately fruitless speculation, and I repeated that, whoever did it, the US government and its cronies (be it big oil, the weapons and private security industries, banking, possibly the opium trade, domestic control and surveillance, the intelligence branches) definitely profited from 9/11.

The only thing that is definite is that the destruction of the buildings wasn't "organic" or gravity-driven; there is little or no proof beyond speculation and conjecture on behalf of government bodies, and there is very interesting and solid evidence on the side of incendiary demolition tactics.

One is the presence of small iron spherical particles in all the dust collected in the debris and elsewhere in the city, by both government and independant agencies - which means that something was so hot it melted then vaporized or aerosolized molten metal, which couldn't have occurred in any office fire condition or even the most extreme temperatures reported by both NIST and FEMA.

The other is the presence of un-ignited incendiary particles of probably military grade materials, thermite or thermate, reported in an unchallenged (and frankly ignored) scientific paper on the matter.

There's also USGS and other reports of trace elements of materials like Barium that can't be present in anthing other than explosive/incendiary metal-cutting activity.

Finally there's eyewitness and video/audio testimony of not only explosions and explosive sounds, but the presence of molten metal, friggin' lava, under all the debris, that was recorded for weeks and weeks after the buildings were felled.

That's the physical aspect.

There's all sorts of circumstantial and co-related evidence that seem to demonstrate that this was an expected event, planned and programmed, that only made it into the public record years later or just surfaced after Freedom of Information requests and other divulgations and investigations occurred.

At best, it seems Government entities like NIST were involved in a cover-up, ignoring most of the physical evidence that couldn't be swept under the carpet to produce their computer models and animations of the damage and "disproportionate collapse" of the buildings as though nobody were going to look into it.

So it's not the US government, but it could be any organization that might have a reason to invade Afghanistan. By your logic, I think Dean Capture did it - Afghanistan would be a great place to shoot content.

Everyone in the world saw two large airplanes hit that building. Not one person has come forward and claimed they saw people wire up the towers.

Barium? Your kidding me, right? They use barium in lots of things - such as fluorescent lights. I'm guessing they had millions of those in the WTC complex. They use it rat poison, X-rays, fireworks. They use it in automobiles.

And this surprises you how? You understand that more people worked in the WTC complex than live in my hometown here, which is about 50k people. The WTC was a city in itself. Dozens of stories below ground was a subway station and shopping center. I'm guessing natural gas, propane; Tens of thousands of gallons of gasoline for back up generators.... All of this buried under a billion tons of concrete and steel... And then set on fire for good measure. They were able to map hot spots from the air weeks afterwards.

Yet still your surprised that there was explosions underground weeks afterwards?

Sure thing. They have weekly meetings about how to cover it up.

I would imagine the US government must have taken a huge effort to keep all of these government entities in line... And yet not one person has come forward to tell the world...

Right back to square one.

http://www.rochardsbunnyranch.com/rock/tinfoil.jpg

Why are you so focused on Afghanistan when I said it was that whole region.

You're right. Not that they would have while the buildings were shut down.

The amounts of that and other elements and the full spectroscpy of constituents is available, and analyzed.

The types of buildings these were prohibited propane, natural gas, etc.... The explosions were prior to collapse.

The fact that they were able to map hot spots from space for weeks is one of the reasons these could not have been normal office fires set off by airliner fuel. Foundries provoke the kind of heat you're referring to and molten metal, which wouldn't be possible if these were even abnormally hot office fires.

Didn't refer to underground explosions, and particularly not weeks or even hours afterwards.

These occurred prior to the onset of collapse.

Who said anything about the US government. Cover ups are possible, and have occurred in the past for decades before discovery.

And not I'm not saying the US government did it. I just find it hard to believe that intelligent folks are so unwilling to believe in the possibility their government lied and/or lies to them, or could undertake the kind of action they have been documented to do in the past...

But again, I'm not saying they did - I don't claim to know who did.

Check out this video on YouTube:
If you have a short attention span then check out :52 and 1:52 around those areas where key points are brought up about wt7 that are literally indisputable. You can see the damage sustained in the other wtc buildings and they did not collapse. These are the ones I keep referring to that still stand tall today. The damage these had compared to wt7 was much greater! Yet 7 fell.

Seriously watch this whole video and you will see why the govt story is inconsistent.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ouXSe...e_gdata_player

Have you ever had your icq checked. I think you are near retarded. I bet you're ugly as fuck as well.

The direct result of 9/11 was the US invading Afghanistan, not anywhere else. Your extending 9/11 into Iraq and "the entire region" - and your coming up with any group who might have had a profit to make selling concrete or bibles. Your just pointing fingers without having any proof.

You said there was barium found in the debris of WTC, and said that was impossible unless there was explosives. That's not true. Barium is commonly used in fluorescent lights.

Have you ever read anything about the World Trade Center? They had natural gas lines running right up one of the towers to the restaurant there. There was restaurants below street level too.

What explosions happened before the crash?

At the moment of impact, fireballs shot down elevator shafts, to the sky lobbies, as well as down to the main lobby and the basement. This is established fact as there was dozens of witnesses. It's entirely possible that people on certain floors heard explosions below them before they knew a plane had impacted the building.

The problem here is the so called truth movement has no shred of evidence that anything the government has told us is wrong. Anything the the so called truth movement says can be quickly explained away. You tell us that there was "unexplained explosions" in the basement which sounds suspicious, but the truth is there was a fireball in the lobby seconds after the impact. You tell us that barium was found in the debris and that only comes from explosives, when the truth is it's in light bulbs. You tell us that propane and natural gas was prohibited, yet you have natural gas lines running up to the top of one tower to the restaurant there. (Propane was in fact banned, but this means you couldn't park your trailer in the parking garage, not using natural gas in a restaurant.)

The so called truth movement takes a single fact ("We found barium") and then lies about it ("It's impossible to find barium unless there are explosives") and then hides the truth ("Barium is used in fluorescent light bulbs").

Hehe IQ.

Fail.

this guy has taken his kookery to a new level here. Not only has he lost himself in a fictitious world where the 'evil doers' are going to get him and everyone else. He is actively recruiting people much like a cult leader would. It's a little embarrassing that he is resorting to a 2 bit carny method using positive reinforcement but it is pretty clear he feels the need to 'convert' everyone to his belief system.

read up on charles manson, his views will seem eerily familiar i'm sure... even before the murders.

But you and your friends keep trying to poke holes in it all but it's quickly explained away.

The problem with your group is it attracts a lot of idiots - people who just believe in conspiracy theories no matter what and will always jump on the band wagon. They take something that seems odd or out of place and make it up into something big.

Are there things that we cannot explain about that day? Of course. Two massive buildings fell down - and that's an understatement because these two buildings were more like cities. There will always be things we cannot explain.

that's an insult to charlie.

I have observed that you're going in the right direction too PR_Glen. It's good to see that you're still opening these threads and reading through the facts and theories. I'll prepare some certificates for yourself and Warchild :thumbsup

President Bush and his aides used Saddam's alleged relationship with al Qaida, along with Iraq's supposed weapons of mass destruction, as arguments for invading Iraq after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
--http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/03/10/29959/exhaustive-review-finds-no-link.html

I didn't say it was impossible, but that high levels were claimed to be indicative of incendiary activity. I may be mis-speaking and it wasn't Barium I meant; I should have just generalized about the high levels of trace elements that supported the presence of incendiaries.

No, they didn't use propane or natural gas. As stated by building employees and management, these were against building code - either the city's or the WTC building code. They were all electrical. The only fuel present was the deisel in back up generators, far down in the basement, unaffected by the crashes a thousand feet and more above.

Those that were mentioned in testimony that was ignored by the 9/11 Commission, teh testimony of building employees who distinguished between the explosion/s from below them prior to the impact of the plane above them.

There is also the testimony of NY fire fighters that was suppressed for (I believe) at least two years before it was released.

There was much evidence of explosive occurrences before the collapses and even the plane crashes. It was under-reported, not reported or simply ignored as not coinciding with the official story, but it was recorded and remains available.

That's highly unlikely, since they would have felt the impacts before the "fireballs" supposedly reached the basement and lobby.

People in the basement were definitely affected by explosions below them and at their levels, prior to the crashes which could be felt as coming from above. Read up on the testimony.

Those are blanket statements that devalue any questions asked of the official story and lump anyone with doubts into the "so called truth movement", which is an ad hominem way to confront any questions or arguments.

Anything the likes of Popular Mechanics (which still clings to the progressive collapse/pancake theory) is rather flimsy in the corroboration department, and depends on theory and speculation.

These are both apparently true. Whether the fireballs were directly due to the fuel down the shafts or backdraft is in question; many think explosions caused the damage to the lobby because there wasn't the kind of scorching and damage that kind of fire would have caused, particularly in the building where most of the fuel actually exited and ignited outside.

You read too fast, that's not what I said.

All the kitchens, whether residential, commercial or office, had electrical power and couldn't use gas. I may be mistaken on this, but I'm pretty certain, and it's a logical safety measure.

These are all statements I didn't make, and the more I read here the more I regret throwing out the Barium reference... sigh.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=WP_f1wIdJ8w

this thread is still going ?!?

Let's take a look at what you did say:

There's also USGS and other reports of trace elements of materials like Barium that can't be present in anthing other than explosive/incendiary metal-cutting activity.

You said it can't be present unless there is "explosive/incendiary metal-cutting activity". But you forgot to mention "fluorescent lights". Plenty of that going on in the WTC.

Why are these stories not reported, under reported, or just plain ignored? I've heard about such stories, but usually they are explained by "I heard an explosion in the basement" because fireballs traveled down the elevators and into multiple lower levels. It's possible they didn't feel the impact, or felt it and didn't even think twice about it. It's also possible that they have confused the first few moments of what happened - very common in such circumstances.

Media is the most important arm of government; the people behind the 9/11 attacks also own the Western media. :2 cents:

Fine, I mispoke and should have re-read this to include "can't be present at such high levels" and then seen if I could reference the statement. Just speaking from memory, which can suck when you're an old fart...

If everyone says you're an unpatriotic, callous kook for doubting the official story and disrespecting the victims and their families, or if your career as a journalist is at risk for going against the grain, then perhaps you won't want to cover such testimony.

As for the reason the oral and written testimonies of New York fire fighters were suppressed... that would have to be looked up. I don't remember the reason or if those who were responsible for releasing them ever said why they weren't.

People who had worked at the Towers for years, even decades, could not have mistaken the occurrence and direction of explosive sensations.

The firefighters and other first-responders as well as regular citizens who described firecracker-like belt-detonations coming down the buildings seem pretty clear on their recollections, and corroborate external, physical evidence that more realistically explains the building crashes than office fires.

The bottom three-quarters to two-thirds of the two towers could not have been compromised so extensively by impacts and fires. Molten metal could not have been produced in such amounts that the pools lasted for weeks unless incendiaries were first used.

Referring to the videos, corner-beam assemblies couldn't have been blown out/up as we saw, without explosive means.

So your assuming that everyone who heard noises in the basement was aware of what was happening one hundred floors above them. I think just the opposite. I think in the main lobby - which was huge - a fireball came down and shit was falling from the sky. They might have heard an impact, but they might not have known where it came from. I would have imagined the noise would have been huge but then again your taking about a very large building that is completely sealed off, floor by floor, with lots of sound proofing.

Maybe they thought it was from the basement, when it was really from an elevator shaft that lead to the impact floors?

Not at all.

"belt like detonations" sounds like floors slamming into each other. Or god only knows what exploding.

This is a perfect example of saying "This must have been detonations" when it could have been anything. Keep in mind that that by the time the towers fell, there was huge uncontrolled fires on multiple floors in multiple buildings exploding god only knows what. Your talking about a huge building that has massive fireballs running through it.

Why couldn't have the bottom three quarters to two-thirds of the two towers not have been compromised enough? Fireballs of jet fuel exploding at different levels where the sky lobbies were, setting everything on fire....

And again you mention molten steel... Why does anything think there wouldn't be molten steel? Your talking about underground fires that were so hot they were mapped out by airplanes - that burned uncontrolled for weeks. Just seems like common sense you would have molten steel.

No I am not - I'm not assuming, just repeating )or paraphrasing, if you're gonna nitpick) what some reported or testified beyond vague notions or impressions. They are quite specific.

And I am in fact assuming they did not know what was going on up above, because it wasn't going on yet when they felt what came from below. They wouldn't have reported explosions from below before the fireball/s struck - if indeed fireballs made it that far down, which is disputed - they were aware of two booms or explosive events - first, one below, then one above.

What you think and what is established or corroborated are different things; since the "fireballs" are suspect as to source, then what you think is not an argument but an opinion based on conjecture.

Maybe conjecture can lead to disclosure but it ain't fact. The people who were in the basement itself, to begin with, had very clear memories and weren't near any mayhem - the closer to the ground floor they were, the more particular and detailed their stories. Some are very specific, some are vague. I'm not referring to the latter.

The lobby also didn't suffer fireball-burn type damage, but concussive damage, as though a bomb had gone off nearby. Huge marble plates were knocked off the walls.

That description comes from someone outside the building/s, and I like the phrase. I may have condensed the actual words. Floors didn't slam into each other at ten floors per second with the two towers - pancaking was discredited by independent sources including FEMA before NIST actually stated as much.

In some cases this can be considered, as many people haven't heard explosions before in their lives. However firemen and other professionals of the type are much more reliable.

IF there were actual fireballs somehow ventilating down or backdrafting as far as the lobby and the basements - which has been described as unlikely - they weren't ongoing. They would have happened a few seconds after impact. The fires in the towers were relatively isolated. Things didn't explode.

The "uncontrolled fires" which actually ran out of fuel fairly shortly based on the video could not have caused any explosions, unless it was overheated glass water coolers. The only possibility was the server farm UPS batteries on one or two floors... which wouldn't have bounced people up from the basement minutes and seconds before the plane impacts.

Simply based on steel skyscraper construction, the estimated maximum temperatures of the fires, the source of the fuel, the fact that the buildings were made to withstand impacts from eariler-model, heavier airframes, the fact that the building had burned longer in an earlier incident without structural compromise, the thicker base construction and girder mass, all the givens indicate fires from airline fuel and office supplies won't melt or even begin to soften steel for a global, symmetrical collapse.

Because liquefied and aerosolized iron and steel cannot be produced outside of foundries or environments where the metals are exposed to temperatures approximately 4 times higher than what was determined on 9/11 for periods of three to six hours.

The buildings came down in less than an hour, after having slight fires consume their carpets and couches.

:D

I'm not sure which is more ignorant. The guy who refuses to look up facts himself and chooses to live with his head in the sand, or the guy who keeps replying to a total whack job who faked his own death.

I'm too lazy to dig it all up for a nim whit like you but I'll drop some quick clues so you can start your real world education on your own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_and...king_in_the_US

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking

They even made a movie about the CIA running drugs back in the day, Air America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afghanistan_Pipeline

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/wo.../05afghan.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/wo...ntel.html?_r=2

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15254788

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1006294.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/west_asia/37021.stm



I could go on posting links from various sources for days but 1) It's not worth my time. 2) You'd still live with your head in the sand like a brainwashed drone in denial. A little education and reading would do you good, because believe it or not, the earth is not flat.

I advise everyone to watch this 911 documentary. Its not like the rest, it goes name by name and shows you who was responsible. It doesn't go into the how, it goes into the Who.

http://www.911missinglinks.com/

Is it possible that I just read the single dumbest thing ive ever seen on the internet? hmm, well its up there for sure. :1orglaugh

:(

You have the worldly knowledge of a pea, openly reject history and science and believe in aliens living in the center of the earth. Noone who knows anything about anything is going to debate you because you're just a ridiculous simpleton.

This is why the internet will eventually lose its neutrality and openness. The puppet masters can't control the message here, like they've been getting away with for so many years now.

Much like our privacies and freedoms are taken away in real life, in a completely one-sided, heavy handed manner, to "protect us" from "terrorism" so will the freedom of the internet soon find itself muzzled and controlled.

The next few years will be turbulent indeed. :2 cents:

You have not posted a single thing that I am not aware of. I have always stayed on top of current events and I am as well read as anyone posting on this board.

What is not fact...is the fucked up conclusions you draw and the opinions you spew forth...from "facts" that you have read. You are a few cards short of a full deck.

BTW...I have never faked my death...and just further exposes your ignorance.

It wasn't a secret, the Nazi leadership was quite open about their plans for the Jews and other undesirables of Europe. It was a message that had support of the population at that time yet still lots came forwad and rejected it. They were thrown in the camps with the Jews.

A real totalitarian state, not the imaginary one you think you live in that still allows you to post any garbage you want on the internet.

Try reading some history of the time if you wish to know more. There is a world of knowledge out there just waiting for you.

I try to avoid responding to the ignorant...the slow minded...loonies...and trolls... and because you fit all of these categories this will be my last response to you.

I "put together what's going on in this world" just fine...thank you very much. You are now dismissed.

Currently Sober likes poo!

Slight fires? You mean massive fireballs that instantly travel down 100 flights of stairs to explode in the main lobby, right?

Funny how the fact that large commercial airliners flew right through the buildings has nothing to do with their collapse. Apparently someone alleged it was just a fire in a waste basket somewhere that caused it.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

FACT: The Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline has been planned for over a decade and is to begin in 2012.
FACT: Taliban came to the USA to discuss oil and the pipeline in 1997
FACT The Afghanistan war started after the Taliban pipeline oil deal fell apart.
FACT: The CIA has admitted to drug trafficking. It is well documented.
FACT: Opium production is at an all time high since the USA invaded Afghanistan
FACT: US soldiers are protecting poppy fields and paying farmers for crops they accidentally destroy.

All of that can be found either in government records, comments from government officials, or straight from soldiers mouths. But I guess both your government and all the soldiers are lying.

Perhaps your Pentagon contacts clued you in on all the top secret info and set the story straight. :1orglaugh

FACT: You faked your own death on a message board and everyone knows it.

A different type of collapse perhaps, rather than ones resembling the controlled demolition of WTC7

OR... here's a possibility. A large commercial jet flew right through the building in front of the entire world, exploding in a massive fireball as the fuel ignited and at the same time wiping out a great deal of the support structure leaving 1000s of tons of concrete and steel above it, balancing precariously on what was left to support it until it finally collapsed as the fires burned and continued to weaken what was left of the supporting steel.

Funny how you lunatics have to retreat to WTC7 as if its relevant to what happened with the towers in front of the entire world.

By the way, this argument that keeps being brought up about the US getting their oil from Canada is not relevant. This is not about grabbing oil that is NEEDED by the West.

It's about controlling the flow of oil, not about taking oil for the US to use. Oil is currently one of the most powerful weapons in the world; if you control it you can decide which currency it is sold in i.e. setting that currency as a world reserve currency which then vastly inflates it's value, meaning the purchasing power of that nation is amplified to a level far above where it would normally be. You can also decide who you're going to sell the oil to and for how much.

Henry A. Kissinger : "Control the oil and you can control entire Continents."

Michael Collon, Belgian author said: "If you want to rule the world, you need to control oil. All the oil. Anywhere."

Food is also an incredibly powerful weapon, but in a slightly different way. This is what Monsanto are for, the plan is for them to eventually control the food supply.

The towers still wouldn't have collapsed in the same way as the controlled demolition of WTC7

WTC7 is an easy win, saves time.

Again - whether or not WTC7 was intentionally demo'ed has nothing to do with the fact that 2 commercial jets flew right through towers 1&2 causing massive structural damage, explosions and fires.