You said you are not watching the trial, so why do you think you have a clue as to what injuries he had? His nose was definitely bruised up and the skull had lumps and bruising. It changes from a fist fight to life threatening when one party starts using concrete as a weapon.



Why not try watching admissible evidence instead of reading hearsay?

Why do you think Martin knew Zimmerman was armed?

I have a feeling that Zimmerman and Martin met up, Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him and Zimmerman told him that he was suspicious looking (or something like this perhaps even asking him why he was in the area). Martin says fuck it and tries to walk away and Zimmerman grabbed him by the hoodie to try to keep him from leaving and that was potentially the catalyst that started the fight.

I don't know if Martin punched first or not. It could have been kind of a tussle where they were pushing and kind of wrestling. All it takes is one good shot to the face and most people will go down. After Martin got that shot off on Zimmerman he got on top of him and was working him over and that is when Zimmerman shot and killed him.

Obviously, there were no witnesses that saw how the fight started or how the confrontation occurred so we can only go off of guesses. According to the testimony Zimmerman said that Martin came up to him as he was heading back to his truck while Martin's friend said that Zimmerman approached Martin and Martin stopped walking to confront him and ask him why he was following him. It is hard to say which is accurate.

I'm sorry, I didn't clarify myself. What I really meant say was "I am not intentionally watching the trial nor do I have that kind of free time, however, I do watch bits here and there". I have watched the trial here and there. I've seen parts of the chick Martin was talking to when this all went down, one of the witnesses who saw the resulting scuffle, and the first police officer on the scene who arrested Zimmerman.

At the same time, I can read. I've read the defense's side, I've read the prosecution's side; I've read Zimmerman's statements. I've the police statements.

You are saying that his head was bashed on concrete, yet Zimmerman didn't need a doctor?

At the same time from the bond hearing one of the police officers stated he "questioned Zimmerman's statement that Martin was slamming his head against the sidewalk just before he shot the teenager, saying it was "not consistent with the evidence we found."



Again, I don't have the kind of free time have.

You ask the dumbest questions.

One would imagine that if someone had a firearm in their waistband it would stick out like a sore thumb, no? Maybe it was covered up under a jacket.

Then we have a statement from Zimmerman's father: "According to Zimmerman's father, during the struggle while Martin was on top of Zimmerman, Martin saw the gun his son was carrying"

Very well could be the case. Martin has an interesting history and wasn't an angel by any means.

But Martin isn't on trial here, Zimmerman is. And Zimmerman's history isn't greatest. To make it even more interesting, when arrested Zimmerman told police he has a "bad memory and takes medication for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder".

wow
It was raining, good chance everyone was wearing some type of jacket/sweater. And seeing the gun during the struggle would seem to hint that he was unaware until that point in time.

I just fucking pray 95% of the posters in this thread never sit on any jury I'm in front of.

I agree! You are smart and not prejudiced for laying out factual stuff! People deny facts for a reason, to deny they could be wrong is a emotional judgement of Zimmerman!

Wrong...sport...I followed all of the rules...including the rule to follow a stranger until he was welcomed into/entered a home...or until he left the community. We were instructed to call the cops only when a person acted suspiciously...and not to call just because a person was a stranger. We were instructed to avoid personal contact if at all possible. Clearly not all watches have identical rules to follow.

You sound innocent to me.

All he talks about is the Marines...a friend of the family has a retarded kid, all he talks about is being a cop.:2 cents:

http://www.sheriffs.org/content/nsa-...-nw-tragedy-fl
"The alleged action of a ?self-appointed neighborhood watchman? last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program,? stated NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.). ?NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program.?

There are Neighbor Hood Watches that are not registered with any organization. I am unaware if the watch that I was a member of was registered with any organization or not. Some neighbor hoods hire armed security guards and to my knowledge they do not register with any organization but some may.

I wrote some stuff. But then, I got a message that I was suppose
to push the back button.

I guess, it wasn't meant to be.

(not) forwarded to my (non-existent) lawyer for future jury selection cliff notes (even though I live in the UK) :thumbsup

I thought this sort of stuff only happened in books I read about off-the-wall towns Jack Reacher ends up in while hitch-hiking. I learn something new every day here :upsidedow

Haha he went from "innocent fan of skittles, stalked and brutally murdered" to "kid is kind of an asshole and picked a fight with arm armed man and lost"

So, regardless of whether or not Zimmerman is found innocent or guilty, what are the odds that he will then get hit with a wrongful death suit by Martin's parents?

Could we have another OJ situation on our hands where he is found not guilty of the criminal charges then loses the civil case?

Yes...of course...but winning civil cases and collecting much...if any...of the amount awarded are two different stories.

I've never heard of a neighborhood watch that has squad cars and shot guns. Sounds like overkill to me.

No shit.

They have different burdens of proof; it is a safe bet that some atty will talk them into a civil suit which will likely be settled out of court

Yes, I'm completely spineless because I value my life too much to attack someone that I know is armed. Especially if I'm in a neighborhood where I belong and not doing anything wrong.

But yeah, good for Martin, he showed that Zimmerman guy how tough he is... I mean, was.

Lot of good those "balls" do him now eh?

I'm not offering up a timeline because, like you and everyone else, I don't actually know what happened. And I just happen to think that "offering up a timeline" based on nothing but my own opinions, prejudices and fantasies, and based on nothing but speculation and conjecture is quite moronic.

You sure as shit seem to have a lot of free time to come here and try to force your opinions as fact based on nothing but what you want to believe happened (fantasy) though.

After making my post I did a little searching. I looks like Martin's parents settled with the home owner's association where this happened for about $1 and then after announcing the settlement said they still intend to sue Zimmerman separately.

I know Zimmerman raised a decent amount of money for his defense, but it is likely going to be gone by the end of this trial. Even if they do settle with him out of court I can't imagine he has much to give them. I have a feeling it will be one of those things, like OJ, where they will be collecting from him for the rest of his life unless he gets lucky and gets another spree of donations after being found not guilty.

I have known of two different communities that
I used to go to...from time to time... that had armed security guards patrolling in patrol cars and at the entrance of one of them they had a security gate with an armed security guard...present 24/7...which signed you in and listed who you were visiting.

The watch that I served with had a single patrol car with identification on it and there was always a 12 gauge shotgun in it. Some of us had handguns we carried while on patrol...some did not. We patrolled in pairs and the AO was patrolled 24/7.

When I lived in LA a friend of mine's parents were pretty well off. His dad was some kind of a specialist surgeon and his mom was a lawyer. They lived in a very nice gated community that had a neighborhood watch that had vehicles. They didn't have guns, but they did have uniforms and tasers. I guess part of the deal with living in this community is that you had to volunteer to be on the community watch at least once per year or you had to pay a pretty hefty fine.

They took their neighborhood watch pretty damn seriously. One car always sat by the entrance gate. If the car coming in was one they didn't recognize they would follow it around until it either pulled into a house and the people were greeted and let into the home or until it left.

Exactly. The communities I am talking about are in the L.A. area. I used to live in that area with my last home in the area being in Tarzana.

Before the end of the decade they will have laptops and will be checking IDs by computer. And I suspect they will be armed. God Bless 'Merica.:upsidedow

Id love to live in a place like that

To be 100% honest. So would I.

I live near quite a few neighborhoods in a nice area that have guard posts and big signs at the entrance saying the neighborhood is patrolled by armed patrols. I really fail to see why thats unusual. Bad people don't sit around in their neighborhoods to commit burglaries. They go to nice neighborhoods to do it. In fact, i have a brick and mortar business in a very nice area full of gated communities and luxury apartments. The apartments complexes get robbed non stop in spite of their security systems, gates etc. Organized groups of people run around hitting them on a regular basis.

tony286 and Rochard apparently are not aware of communities outside of their own...as there is nothing unusual about having armed people patrolling communities with different rules/instructions for different communities.

That's not a neighborhood watch that's paid security guards.

If the police set up your neighborhood watch there are no guns,the guidelines are set up by the sheriffs assoc nationally. Now you decide to do it your own that's a different story. One of the things the cop talked about in my class was the possible costs of playing John Wayne. One of your volunteers with guns shoots somebody by mistake you can loose everything.Forget about going to jail for a long time.

Zimmerman had an absolute right to profile Trayvon Martin, whom is a young black male, the demographic that commits a disproportionate amount of crime. Wearing baggy clothes and walking around in late evening just aggravate the situation.

Black culture is toxic and very hindering to all black people, and the fact that blacks embrace it does not make me happy.
Casting out rational people such as Bill Cosby to be pariahs and embracing pinheads such as Spike Lee, Al Sharpton, and Jesse Jackson (who's son is a criminal).

It won't happen, but if black fathers stay and raise their biological children, embrace education, family, community, and rejected black culture traits associated with ghetto rap/lifestyle/thug ; within 2 generations prejudice (toward blacks) would completely evaporate.

Fools will argue nonstop even with straight facts handed to them on a platter, that's how you get a green handle... or red one. :2 cents:

Why should blacks swallow your bitter pill of truth when it's easier to just call you a "racist"?

Just returned from a business trip to North Carolina where this is in the news. http://www.wral.com/autopsy-details-...oman/12579522/

That North Hills area is very exclusive.

I have no idea who originally set up the watch that I was a member of as it was ongoing when I moved into the neighbor hood. I do know that everyone was encouraged to participate and I know there was a good relationship with the police.

I notice that you said "the guidelines are set up by the sheriffs assoc nationally". Guidelines are guidelines are they not? Guidelines would mean that different communities could and do have different rules/instruction...does it not?

I am sure Travion went out for Skittles :mad:

This is what is stupid about arguing that Martin running around in the dark and rain in a gated community where he was not a resident is no big deal. Just a guy walking around with skittles, making the world a better place. When you're there and you're on the lookout for people breaking into homes (as has happened continuously) and you see someone who looks very out of place - my personal assumption would be that everyone is in danger until proven otherwise. That's not unreasonable in my view.

My gf lives about 3 mins from me in a private gated community - in this community as one example was a once very well known rap producer who's net worth as i just read was thought to be 500 mil at one point. Trust me, if i was a kid that looked out of place, lurking around in the dark and rain - the security there would be on top of me in seconds.

It has absolutely nothing to do with race. A good portion of the residents are wealthy indians, pakistanis, arabs, blacks etc. There is a lake inside the community and we often go sit there and security hovers around non stop when we do. They write down my license plate number. They keep track of who is there and what they are doing. Thats what everyone wants. Thats what they are paid to do by the community. To be seen. To have a presence. To let anyone and everyone know they are there and they are watching everything. For me to walk up to the guy and start a fight is hardly justifiable under any circumstance. Particularly when all one has to do is just keep walking home.

Maybe Zimmerman hated skittles?

Mayber Martin went out for skittles when he got busted with a backpack full of womens jewelry and a screwdriver prior to this event?

Maybe Zimmerman was escorted down from heaven by an angel to kill the "suspect" armed with candy.

For those who don't understand.. Black kid, night time = suspect for some mentally challenged people in this country.