Actually GZ had a few versions it seems from closing arguments.

was this made an issue in the trial?

And there is zero fact, testimony or even circumstantial evidence that suggests Zimmerman went right up to Treyvon Martin, face to face.

As i've said repeatedly "following" is not "confronting" by any stretch of the imagination. Certainly does not fit into any legal definition.

In fact, the whole point as illustrated by Zimmermans calls which covered the vast majority of the incident was that Zimmerman was guiding police to Martin and police were basically right around the corner. Martin was trying to dodge Martin. Certainly both parties grossly misinterpreted the intent of the other, however, that does not change the facts and evidence. There is nothing to evidence the fact that Zimmerman approached and directly confronted Martin. There is evidence that Zimmerman got his ass handed to him. Who started that and why, who threw the first punch and why, has very little to do legally with the moment Zimmerman pulled out a gun and pulled the trigger. All that matters legally is what was going on in his mind at that exact moment.

OK. so when a guy is in cardiac arrest & 911 says we suggest you give CPR, what that really means is they are directing you to do nothing at all. got it.

:upsidedow

No. The operator testified and was very clear that they have no authority to issue commands, they only "advise".

Its an argument which an emotional bunch, devoid of any real legal fact keep trying to make... that is irrelevant to the 2nd Degree Murder charge. All that matters is what Zimmerman was thinking (reasonable fear of...) at the moment he pulled out a gun and fired it. The fact that Zimmerman followed Martin (well within his legal rights to do so), its not a relevant fact.

If this was a wrongful death civil suit or different charge, then it might be an important fact.

Again, you are just making circular, irrelevant, irrational and emotional arguments. Not citing the law or making a legal argument. And you just said it yourself... "we suggest....". Not "you absolutely must do..." - two very different meanings.

done and done. the place to sort out semantics is in court, looks like they did that here. nothing to argue about rly then.

definition is there for everyone.

is there something in that definition that you'd like to dispute?

actually it is a critical fact, so critical that zim declined to invoke the stand your ground statute as his defense. Stand your ground requires that the person defending himself did not initiate the conflict. Hence Zim stayed off that law, which wouldve applied directly to this case had martin actually caused the confrontation.

I'm leaving this thread now & not coming back. congrats to the winners.

:)

1) "Confrontation" is not "following". As its repeatedly argued.
2) There is zero evidence that supports the hypothesis that Zimmerman got face to face with Martin.

Is there actually an argument you'd like to make that is consistent with the law or facts, you snide fuck? Or you gonna stick to your safe tactic of copying and pasting, posting smileys and asking short/safe rhetorical questions for fear of getting owned if you actually try to articulate a thought?

It is about what can and can't be proven. He would have to prove he did not initiate the conflict or do life in prison. IF there were slam dunk facts to prove that, that would be a different story and a different defense.

He was never expected to take the stand.

There are only downsides to him taking the stand and getting ripped apart by a skilled, well prepared prosecutor. It's not about explanations or facts, its about credibility... the prosecutor would just hammer him until he started stuttering and stammering and questioning himself and eventually getting confused and contradicting himself as would happen with anyone.

Thats like saying "Bob refuses to fight George st Pierre in the cage, so that proves Bob is lying about his 3 weeks of MMA training back home in Pickleshit Indiana"

Well, if you had listened to testimony, his girlfriend is the one that said he used the racial slur, cracker, and that it was common in her neighborhood.

A critical fact is that stand your ground was never an issue in court; only in the media and GFY

I did no such thing. It was part of the closing arguments - it was Zimmerman making a statement to the police after the shooting. It was audio only. It was Zimmerman himself who said it.

zero evidence? so those pictures of zimmerman getting jumped is from something else?

The defense/Zimmerman said that Zimmerman walked up to Martin and got face to face with Martin?

Thats not at all what his statements to the police were.

That Zimmerman went up to Martin and not the other way around... i.e. "confronted" Martin.

You seriously have to be trolling.

Okay; here is the problem, you have never listened to jury instructions. Let me clear that up for you . . . . opening statements and closing arguments are not evidence, and they are not to be considered as evidence. It is their summary of the facts as counsel would like you to believe them.

I went back and read your initial claim . . . no where in the audio did GZ say he approached Martin.

The gym owner said on the stand that Zimmerman lost 50-80 lbs.

However, he also said that Zimmerman couldn't throw a punch to save his life or defend himself - which doesn't make sense to me. How can you join a martial arts gym, be there long enough to loose 50-80 lbs, yet never learn how to throw a punch?

If I walk behind you on a public street and go wherever you go on the public street. I am following you.

If I am "chasing" you...then my intent is to catch you.

Why are you asking such a stupid question? Get yourself a dictionary.

I doubt that.... But it says a lot about the justice system...

You can assume a person is a suspect because he walking around while black, following him around with a weapon... shoot him, claim your a victim and then say it's self defense.... Amazing...

I think Canadians have different meanings for words like the English do.

You lose weight with diet and nutrition first. Not "punching"

All of this, his experience there and so on was explained in full detail with the testimony and cross examination of the gym owner. You said you've heard and read everything, so forgive me for talking to you as if you hadn't.

Also, it was not a "MMA Gym", "Martial Arts Gym" etc. Though that is a big part of its focus. It was a full gym with full weight facilities. Not just a facility with a single focus. Zimmerman also went there to do cardio. That doesn't mean he's a trained fighter.
http://www.kogym.com/personal-fitness-training.htm

Everytime he goes to the mall, he has a tough time as he turns around and realizing 1300 behind him walking in the same circle are "chasing him" to "confront" him.

so he followed martin, as you stated, but didn't 'confront' him.

the confrontation just 'happened'

nothing to do with the following, of course?

Richard, you're a dumb human being and a troll and a Canadian strangely obsessed with America. What happened is all public record, i'm done educating you. Like others, you are trying to establish something as fact which can't be established as fact and trying to make an argument which isn't even made by the prosecution. Maybe you should be a prosecutor since you're so smart.

All you have is questions and no answers because its a safe tactic for a weak minded simpleton such as yourself who wants to be perceived as smart and be perceived as making an argument when you really have none top make.

Fittingly, "all questions and no answers" is also a metaphor for your life.

Zimmerman will be going away for a while, no doubt.

Some of the same people who did not believe Obama would be elected the FIRST time think otherwise.

Some of the same people who did not believe Obama would be elected the SECOND time think otherwise.

These same people will be wrong again, as usual.

if you walk behind me on a public street you are 'following me'

if you purposely follow me for the purpose of following me, that's 'chasing'

or, as id put it, 'stalking'.

and what really happened:

can't deal with the current argument, resort to throwing poo.

other primates do it as well..

yep. we have these things called 'dictionaries'.

beats making up shit as we go along.

http://www.kogym.com/mixed-martial-arts.htm that's what he was there to learn. It was said he was there to learn mma.

I just heard Zimmerman in his own voice say he walked up to Martin.

I am pretty sure it was entered in as evidence prior.

Interesting that the first thing that came to mind was you getting covered in shit at the hands of someone else.

Another metaphor for your lack of self esteem and low sense of self worth, no doubt.

Wanting to learn something that requires a great deal of skill, physical ability and training does not mean thats what you are doing on day 1. I have 1 black belt, have substantial experience in a second style of karate as well as boxing/kicking boxing and i've owned a martial arts school. being a fighter is the end goal. You start out spending 6 months to a year of doing very boring stuff - footwork, endurance, stability, defense etc. Standard operating procedure. The owner of the gym gave extensive testimony as to the process of training and what Zimmerman did exactly in his gym... none of which was refuted.

also, not slamming the door of the dojo. :upsidedow had a hardtime with that one, the wind would catch it and i'd have to go back and do it again, fuck that! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

dude you really are hilarious. you ever do stand up comedy?

I know a guy in Karate for 12 years, and my son at 17 beat him up in the ring.

Just because you Train for something doesn't make you an expert no matter how long you train. The training did make him lose weight.

Also if you watch any MMA, the guy on the bottom no matter how well trained if pretty much fucked..... (top mount)

I've been seriously thinking about training again. Maybe kickboxing. It's just such a pain in the ass to get any degree of flexibility back and such a painful process. :( But the cardio is definitely worth it and i really need it right now!

Also, doesn't help when you're basically a happy-go-lucky adult and not an angry kid.

but George was doing it for 12 months and he learned nothing? ok also how did he sneak up on George when his phone was knocked out of his hand?

Again, you are overgeneralizing and distorting what was said.

Seems to be a very common tactic with most of you who argue with emotion rather than reason.

I never said "he learned nothing".

I am saying that it was all covered in great detail in court. IF you wanted to know the facts, you could look up the facts and argue based on that.

I am saying that learning any fighting art is a long process. That long process begins with a lot of very unexciting stuff.

A simple example is Aikido. I have never seen an Aikido trainer that had people actively trying to use techniques on a partner inside of 6 months. The first 6 months or more is basically learning how to move, how to fall, how to roll etc. Oh, and for the record, Aikido is for pussies. However, anything is possible. But the gym owners version was credible and well explained and was not proven to be a lie.

i hear ya, i'm all about the yoga these days, much more laid back. :1orglaugh