He was walking home in a hoodie in the rain at 7pm. Please tell me what was suspicious? Also he lived there and didnt know where the kid was heading he was just walking down the street. Again he may have been a theft but he stole nothing but the guy with the history of violence killed someone.

Here is the problem. I wasn't there. Neither were you. You've decided it wasn't - without any information. I believe he was darting in and out between houses and others private property... not just walking down the street. That was what prompted Zimmerman to call 911.

What is difficult for me to understand about some of you people is how you can make the massive leap in logic that a neighborhood watch guy called 911 and was trying to guide police to Martin (as he'd done 46 times before) for absolutely no reason whatsoever.'

There is a common theme in almost everything you talk about and everything you stand for as a person... victim... victim... victim. So its not surprising you've automatically decided Martin is a victim of a violent crime and must be defended to the end irregardless of the facts. However, its the facts that existed in the exact moment the fight happened that matter when it comes to determining whether or not Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder.

You keep saying he was "walking home" and yet, he did not live there.

But it's cool, I know guys like you who want to burn the big bad racist whitey don't care about evidence... only your own twisted fantasies.

He was staying at someones house there.

Right, I know that... but visiting his dad who was visiting a woman who lived there isn't synonymous with "walking home".

I haven't followed this trial at all - is it being covered live on TV?

From reading this thread the prosecution has little chance of a murder conviction - reasonable doubt is not a large burden for defense attorneys to achieve in the minds of a jury. the legal system we have is predicated on the belief that it's better to have 9 guilty men go free rather than 1 innocent man found guilty. Zimmerman could be one of those 9, we'll never know since there were no eye witnesses to the fight.

so at the end of the trial the judge can instruct the jury that should they not be able to agree that he's guilty of 2nd degree murder they can consider a guilty verdict of manslaughter?

Funny our neighborhood was told the complete opposite. Our guys were told to politely confront, verify residency and monitor until police arrive for anyone not recognized as a resident and or acting in a suspicious manner. Not detain but "monitor".

These guys keep fabricating protocols with respect to what Zimmerman should and should not do and applicable laws that don't exist, and then present them as evidence of a crime.

What is the point of a neighborhood patrol that sees someone suspicious in a gated neighborhood suffering a burglary every other month... calls police and just sits there as the guy walks off into the dark and disappears?

"Excuse me sir. I'm with the neighborhood watch and part of my job is making sure no one trespasses on private resort property. Are you a new resident I haven't had the pleasure of meeting?"

This is how a polite encounter should originate and is indicative of almost every instance where I live. Anyone with the smallest amount of common sense can tell a resident out for a walk vs someone who doesn't belong. But being in a tourist area everyone is given the polite benefit of doubt they belong. Wave to people you know politely talk to those you don't.

In a non tourist community I would think a non resident would really stand out.

I find that hard to believe,you were told by the police to do that? Your neighborhood assumes great liability.

What's hard to believe? That we don't call the police and report someone is walking around every time a stranger is spotted? The Tampa police would stop showing up if that was the case plus you would have upset guests.

If someone is acting very suspicious then yes the police are called otherwise discretion is used. That's just common sense. Where you live the police are called 100% of the time someone is walking around that isn't recognized ? Wow.

Our guys are usually riding in golf carts and always, always initiate a conversation.


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Yup, the trial is being broadcasted live so you can follow all of it....so far the prosecution is doing the defense's job for them...this case should have never gone to trial and no charges should have been filed.

And you know this how?

You and Rochard really should be in Florida now; the prosecution needs some witnesses that will bolster their case.

yeah cus shit was all good for blacks in the 60s

We should not, under any circumstances, have armed civilians patrolling anything. Neighborhood watch has zero fucking authority to do anything other than call the police. I don't think a reserve deputy is qualified; In my neck of the woods a reserve deputy is someone they call up in an extreme emergency to direct traffic (they did this in my hometown during the propane train fire), and retired cops are the worst - they think they know all, have a limited tolerance for bullshit, and are last kind of person you want on the neighborhood watch.

What you've just told me is exactly the root of the problem here - we had an untrained armed neighborhood watch member who completely went out of his way to break all rules of the neighborhood watch. His job wasn't to pursue and detain; His job was to call the fucking police.

The end result is a seventeen year old kid was killed seventy feet from the front door who's only crime was buying skittles.

You aren't the solution, you are the problem.

This seems to be true. The items were never proven to be stolen, although it seems pretty obvious. He was also suspended from school for a bong or something.

I'm not saying the kid is completely innocent, but he was shot and killed seventy feet from his front door for no reason at all.

As long as we are pulling scenarios out of our asses, who's to say Martin didn't attack someone who was simply following and observing what he thought was suspicious behavior? That's as plausible as Zimmerman just shooting someone for no reason.

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For no reason other than he was beating a guy's head against the pavement . . . with the intent to inflict great bodily harm; possibly even attempted murder.

Zimmerman can't go with the "stand your ground" defense because he wasn't standing his ground or defending himself, but instead was pursuing Martin - he was following him.

Even self defense doesn't fly with me. This was a fist fight, and Zimmerman was never in any serious damage. He didn't even go to the hospital. I've had a lot worse beat downs than this.

People watch way too much TV and think they are James Bond.

Seems to me Zimmerman was one of those persons. Being on the neighborhood watch is great, but being armed while doing it sounds a bit over the top to me.

Where I live in here in California we have a volunteer police force. Anyone can join, it's unpaid, and you get a uniform. They even have special police cars marked as "volunteer", no red and blue lights, but instead orange. They do traffic enforcement - mostly at the local schools directly traffic when the kids get let out of school - and quietly patrol late at night. I don't know if they are armed or not, but I know their instructions are to never confront anyone and instead to call the regular police.

Our HOA also has a security force that patrols at night. I rarely see them.

This is what blows my mind. At no point in time did Zimmerman identify himself as a member of the "neighborhood watch". All Martin knew is that an older man with a firearm had stopped his truck, was watching him, and then following him.

This was a fist fight; Zimmerman didn't even need to go to the hospital.

What kind of a Marine were you? Fucking cook? Fist fights aren't dangerous? Ending up with your head on concrete isn't dangerous? Did you miss the hand to hand part of training?

You are the biggest fucking liar and storyteller on this forum or a master troller. If you ever had a "beat down" like you claim no way could you make such a naive comment about not being in danger.

Ask xxxjay about taking just one punch to the head.

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That's very true.

From Zimmerman's point of view, he was following someone who looked suspicious.

From Martin's point of view, an older man with a firearm stopped his truck, watched Martin, and then followed him on foot. Martin most likely felt threatened and was scared. It's entirely possible that Martin attacked Zimmerman (without warning) because he thought he needed to defend himself against a man with a firearm. In fact, I am guessing this is the case - This kid surprised Zimmerman, got the first punch in, and Zimmerman wasn't able to recover from the first strike.

But if this is the case, you can argue Martin was acting in self defense - against a man with a firearm.

You're nuts.

I was infantry, 0352, TOW Gunner, and then later a 0913 Combat instructor. I did not teach hand to hand combat.

I've been in dozens of fist fights in my lifetime. In one case I did go to the hospital, but I wouldn't describe that as a fist fight. (In fact, I had internal bleeding and broken bones.)

Zimmerman didn't need to go do the hospital, nor did he even see a doctor. He had a fat lip. I would hardly call that "life threatening".

So, it is your contention that he should wait until he is losing consciousness to consider going for his sidearm?

How did Martin know Zimmerman had a gun? and 28 is hardly "an older man"

White people should not kill black people.

Come on Rochard you were a combat instructor for the Marines. Paid certified bad asses. You should know the dangers of even one good punch to the head. The average male has never been hit hard by another adult. Just the disorientation means you now have a good chance of being on the losing end. And once on the losing end it's a matter of mercy on your opponent as to how bad you end up.

I read most of these posts and find emotions playing a role determining why Zimmerman is guilty. The facts should dictate the outcome of the trial!

So far, facts shown puts Zimmerman defending himself against Martin, bad outcome for Martin not knowing Zimmerman was carrying a gun. If Zimmerman was not carrying what would have been the outcome of that altercation?

Everyone continue on, keeps me entertained by some responses from folks that are emotionally sensitive from people that carry guns. (2nd Amendmant Right)

Its best to let the facts and the evidence state the case.

I also remember that there were more than half a dozen break-ins in that neighborhood in the previous 6 months. According to witnesses and the police most of the break ins were perpetrated by people fitting Martin's description. I can easily understand why Zimmerman followed him. As anyone with a brain can do as well. What happened after that I do not know.

Why aren't you the star witness for the prosecution? Sure as shit seems like you had a front row seat to the entire incident.

just agree to disagree :2 cents:

I am sure he has had many beat downs, as he says. lol. He never lets the facts get in the way of a good rant.:1orglaugh

I got my renewed concealed carry permit yesterday...just sayin....

There are two sides of this - Most of us have had more than a few fist fights, never considered them life threatening, and never had to go to the doctor or hospital. On the other hand, a single strike in the right place can kill a man, or in the case of Jay the first strike can be more than enough to take out a man.

It seems to me Zimmerman was on the loosing end of a smack down. He got a bloody lip. Was it life threatening? Hardly. This was a scuffle and a fist fight that Zimmerman was loosing.

Here's what I think happened....

1. Zimmerman saw Martin, didn't recognize him, and thought he looked suspicious.
2. Zimmerman pulled his truck over, called police, and watched Martin.
3. Zimmerman gets out of his truck and starts to follow him.
4. Martin, who is on the cell phone, notices this, see he is armed (Zimmerman had the firearm in his waistband in plain sight?) and decides to take action.
5. Martin ducks out of sight, loosing Zimmerman. Zimmerman reports this to the police, hangs up, and moves back towards his truck.
6. Martin confronts Zimmerman, surprising him, pops Zimmerman in the face taking him down, and Martin jumps on top of Zimmerman and starts beating on him.
7. Zimmerman shoots Martin, killing him.

I am "guessing" it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman, mostly because Martin seems to have gotten the jump on Zimmerman and quickly controlled the situation. Either that or Zimmerman confronted Martin, hit first, but Martin got the upper hand. But I don't think who hit first is too important; Martin thought he was being pursued by a man with a firearm tucked in his waistband and felt the need to protect himself.

This is going to boil down to if the jury thinks Zimmerman had the right to shoot Martin because Zimmerman thought his life was in danger. I think Zimmerman thought his life was in danger and / or panicked. In the head of the moment when another man is on top of you beating you up, that is a very difficult call to make.

Zimmerman's injuries weren't life threatening. He didn't got to the hospital, and didn't need to see a doctor. He didn't get any medical attention. He got a fat lip and a few cuts.

At what point does a scuffle or a fist fight become life threatening? Seems to me after the fact Zimmerman was barely hurt - had a fat lip and some cuts.

Martin was teenager, 17; Zimmerman is a full grown man at age 28. Yes, he was an older man. You can still do math, right?

No, but I can read. I just posted what I thought happened, numbered and all, but this is what I "think" and is a "complete guess" being as I wasn't there, and also because one of the only two witnesses are dead.

Now what kind of stupid does someone have to be to walk up to and start a fight with someone they know is armed?

I'm sorry but your entire "opinion" on what took place is nothing short of completely fucking moronic. I don't know about you but if I see someone with a gun walking towards me then I sure as shit ain't going to walk up and start a fight with him. I mean, I know they teach you jarheads that you're bullet proof but that's just plain fucking retarded for anyone with half a functional brain cell.

Clearly someone with more balls than you.

I don't see you offering up a timeline skippy.

And yet Martin, a seventeen year old kid, beat up an older armed man. Go figure.