Student walkouts in LA - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

AmateurFlix · 03-28-2006, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

Sorry but all you are offering is "it's illegal!" and "they're criminals!". I do not disagree with this. This is a fact. Your solution to build bigger walls with more guns and to throw all the illegals out won't work. You haven't looked at the big picture of why this is happening and why it will continue to happen. You are a xenophobe that wishes to build Fortress America. Not gonna work, not gonna happen.

Again with the xenophobe comment. Perhaps you don't understand the word?

"xenophobe NOUN: A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples "

No one is fearful of the mexicans. No one is contemptuous of the mexicans. The only people being discussed are criminals who happen to be (mostly) mexican. Do you see the term 'border jumper' or 'illegal' in that definition anywhere? Now that you should have an understanding of the term, please use it correctly.

Borders really aren't that hard to build effectively. I don't know why you think they are. Maybe it's wishful thinking on your part for some reason that nothing could stop the invincible mexican border jumpers but that's not the reality of the situation.

The reason that this is happening isn't anything more complex than an opportunity exists and it is being exploited. If the opportunity no longer exists, they won't keep trying. I'm sure some people would try it no matter how tall a fence or how many guards there were - but the number of those attempting it would be greatly reduced if the chances of successful entry were reduced.

A big wall is a much more practical and economical solution that trying to deal with it through other means.

I don't think very many people want to turn Mexican tourists away. Just those who would enter illegally.

Alex · 03-28-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sltr

I cant believe he honestly thinks that.

escorpio · 03-28-2006, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

First off this isn't a 'latino' issue. It's about a very small percentage of the mexican population and has nothing whatsoever to do with latinos from any other countries, so don't try to hide behind other people with brown skin and call anyone who disagrees with you a xenophobe.

The fact that you think "latino" = brown skin says a lot.

escorpio · 03-28-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

Again with the xenophobe comment. Perhaps you don't understand the word?

"xenophobe NOUN: A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples "

I understand it perfectly. And it fits you like a glove.

AmateurFlix · 03-28-2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

The fact that you think "latino" = brown skin says a lot.

do I need to explain this to you?

AmateurFlix · 03-28-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

I understand it perfectly. And it fits you like a glove.

No evidently you don't.

You're a coward who throws around accusations of racism/xenophobia when you can't win an arguement through reason. Everyone knows the type of person you are.

The type that makes excuses for criminals.
The type that takes the easiest method possible to belittle anyone who disagrees with them.
The type that believes it's OK to hide behind their heritage when they've done something wrong.
The type that ends up causing the very racial issues that you accuse others of having.
You're a disgrace.

escorpio · 03-28-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

do I need to explain this to you?

Yes, please do. I could use the laugh.

escorpio · 03-28-2006, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

No evidently you don't.

You're a coward who throws around accusations of racism/xenophobia when you can't win an arguement through reason. Everyone knows the type of person you are.

The type that makes excuses for criminals.
The type that takes the easiest method possible to belittle anyone who disagrees with them.
The type that believes it's OK to hide behind their heritage when they've done something wrong.
The type that ends up causing the very racial issues that you accuse others of having.
You're a disgrace.

What exactly is it you think we're arguing? That "they're ILLEGAL!"? We're not. I'm telling you your XENOPHOBIC plan of big walls will not work.

There's a difference between an "excuse" and a reason. Have you even been to Mexico? have you seen the kind of poverty those people are trying to escape? Until you have you can not understand why your plan will not work.

Where did I say it's ok to hide behind your heritage when you've done something wrong?

How am I causing racial issues? I see this as an economic issue.

AmateurFlix · 03-28-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

Yes, please do. I could use the laugh.

It's a generalization. They're not popular in these times but they're appropriate.
Africans tend to get referred to as having black skin, though it is obviously brown.
People such as myself are referred to as being white, though my skin does not resemble the color of bleached paper.
Latinos tend to get referred to as being 'brown skinned' even though some are more pale than I am.

Surely this isn't the first time you've encountered this?

escorpio · 03-28-2006, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

It's a generalization. They're not popular in these times but they're appropriate.
Africans tend to get referred to as having black skin, though it is obviously brown.
People such as myself are referred to as being white, though my skin does not resemble the color of bleached paper.
Latinos tend to get referred to as being 'brown skinned' even though some are more pale than I am.

Surely this isn't the first time you've encountered this?

Yes, I've encountered it and consider it an ignorant way to categorize a diverse people.

AmateurFlix · 03-28-2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

What exactly is it you think we're arguing? That "they're ILLEGAL!"? We're not. I'm telling you your XENOPHOBIC plan of big walls will not work.

Xenophobia means an aversion to foreigners. If I had an aversion to foreigners I wouldn't endorse any type of mexican citizens or any other foreigners working here, and that is not my arguement. Do you understand that? Those who enter legally I have no issue with.

Quote:

There's a difference between an "excuse" and a reason. Have you even been to Mexico? have you seen the kind of poverty those people are trying to escape? Until you have you can not understand why your plan will not work.

I have not visited there and have no significant desire to. From what I understand it's somewhat dangerous to be in the area and since I don't speak the language or have any cultural ties, it's unlikely I'll ever travel there.

I don't doubt the poverty you're speaking of and am not unsympathetic to it, however it's not the USA's problem. I am not against foreign aid - frankly I would rather see assistance go to neighbouring Mexico than to countries halfway around the world - you never know when the USA might need Mexico's aid for some unforseen reason and they are nearby. But allowing everyone to enter the USA who wants to simply isn't a good deal for the USA. Importing poverty in large quantities is not a good idea for those who don't want poverty.

That being said, they do have a "reason" to want to escape poverty. They have a "reason" to go through customs and enter as they are supposed to if they wish to be a guest of this country. Unfortunately this turns into an "excuse" when it involves breaking the laws of the country they're travelling into.

Quote:

Where did I say it's ok to hide behind your heritage when you've done something wrong?
How am I causing racial issues? I see this as an economic issue.

The reason I said this is that you claimed it was a 'latino' issue, when it is clearly only a mexican issue, and not one that even affects all mexicans. That would make as much sense as me saying that it's a white issue if it were only people from finland or something being affected. It's misleading and sets up an attitude of "us vs them" which does bring out the real xenophobes and racists.

Anyway evidently you're at least trying to understand where I'm coming from here, I really don't want to start something with you but I disagree with much of what you say.

AmateurFlix · 03-28-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

Yes, I've encountered it and consider it an ignorant way to categorize a diverse people.

I don't take offense to being called "white". Typically others of my race from various locations do not either. If you look at someone from southern Italy and someone from Norway they do look quite different, though they are both white. I can't relate to any reason someone would take offense at such a generalization, and it is not my intention to offend.

AmateurFlix · 03-28-2006, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

Your posts give me a fucking ulcer dude.

I am not easy to debate with and my POS secondary webhost has been down so I've had all day to sit in front of this computer and debate on GFY.

escorpio · 03-28-2006, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

Xenophobia means an aversion to foreigners. If I had an aversion to foreigners I wouldn't endorse any type of mexican citizens or any other foreigners working here, and that is not my arguement. Do you understand that? Those who enter legally I have no issue with.

I have not visited there and have no significant desire to. From what I understand it's somewhat dangerous to be in the area and since I don't speak the language or have any cultural ties, it's unlikely I'll ever travel there.

I don't doubt the poverty you're speaking of and am not unsympathetic to it, however it's not the USA's problem. I am not against foreign aid - frankly I would rather see assistance go to neighbouring Mexico than to countries halfway around the world - you never know when the USA might need Mexico's aid for some unforseen reason and they are nearby. But allowing everyone to enter the USA who wants to simply isn't a good deal for the USA. Importing poverty in large quantities is not a good idea for those who don't want poverty.

That being said, they do have a "reason" to want to escape poverty. They have a "reason" to go through customs and enter as they are supposed to if they wish to be a guest of this country. Unfortunately this turns into an "excuse" when it involves breaking the laws of the country they're travelling into.

The reason I said this is that you claimed it was a 'latino' issue, when it is clearly only a mexican issue, and not one that even affects all mexicans. That would make as much sense as me saying that it's a white issue if it were only people from finland or something being affected. It's misleading and sets up an attitude of "us vs them" which does bring out the real xenophobes and racists.

Anyway evidently you're at least trying to understand where I'm coming from here, I really don't want to start something with you but I disagree with much of what you say.

It is a latino issue. Many come from countries in Central and South America, not just Mexico.

You seem to have some understanding and sympathy. Why are you suggesting a "big wall" and "kick 'em all outta here" approach as opposed to a viable guestworker program?

Mexico and the border region is like the U.S. Some areas are dangerous, most aren't. I feel safer in most places in Mexico than I do in the U.S.

KRL · 03-28-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

It is a latino issue. Many come from countries in Central and South America, not just Mexico.

You seem to have some understanding and sympathy. Why are you suggesting a "big wall" and "kick 'em all outta here" approach as opposed to a viable guestworker program?

Mexico and the border region is like the U.S. Some areas are dangerous, most aren't. I feel safer in most places in Mexico than I do in the U.S.

Not to worry. This weeks political cirucs over immigration is just that a circus to just laugh at. They know its mission impossible but want to pretend to the people like its not.

Putting up a wall will never work. Declaring 12 Million people felons is absurd. Deporting 12 Million people from the US is even more absurd and would crash the stock market overnight.

AmigoPorn · 03-28-2006, 11:56 PM

Meet Jim Oberweis. When he mounted a campaign for Senate last year, Oberweis famously used undocumented immigrants as a scapegoat for various economic problems facing the country. In one campaign advertisement, Oberweis claimed ?10,000 illegal aliens a day? are taking American jobs and demanding free health care ? ?enough to fill Soldier Field every single week.? While Oberweis wildly exaggerated statistics about undocumented immigrants during his Senate campaign, he has also taken advantage of them at his company.[.....more]

AmateurFlix · 03-29-2006, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

It is a latino issue. Many come from countries in Central and South America, not just Mexico.

You seem to have some understanding and sympathy. Why are you suggesting a "big wall" and "kick 'em all outta here" approach as opposed to a viable guestworker program?

Mexico and the border region is like the U.S. Some areas are dangerous, most aren't. I feel safer in most places in Mexico than I do in the U.S.

Are there many latinos coming from Central & South America illegally? It seems to me that if they had the means to travel such a great distance (that travel can't be cheap, so I assume poverty isn't as much of an issue for that crowd) then they would also have the means to enter through customs as they are supposed to.

I'm not against a guest worker program at all, obviously something needs to be done regarding this if for nothing else than to keep better track of visitors in this country. I do however believe that those who have entered illegally should be deported since they have shown a disregard for the laws here; perhaps since it hasn't been enforced very effectively this has been viewed by some of the Mexicans as not being a big deal, but to most Americans it is and it's presumptuous to expect them to view it as otherwise.

Now if it's someone who came here for instance 20-30 years ago illegally and has been leading an exemplary life aside from that, then what harm could come from letting them stay? Probably none. So yeah exceptions could be made.

I do think a big wall is and has been needed for a long time, and not only for the purpose of reducing illegal immigrants. If built effectively it would solve the vast majority of the border jumper problems. It would also reduce human trafficing and put a very severe crimp on illegal drugs being brought in. Everyone agrees that the border isn't monitored effectively which also makes it a prime area for terrorist concerns. Frankly that area should have been more well guarded since automobiles were first introduced (which made crossing the deserts easier), it's something that is long past due and I can only see positive benefits from it to both countries.

KRL · 03-29-2006, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

I do think a big wall is and has been needed for a long time, and not only for the purpose of reducing illegal immigrants. If built effectively it would solve the vast majority of the border jumper problems. It would also reduce human trafficing and put a very severe crimp on illegal drugs being brought in. Everyone agrees that the border isn't monitored effectively which also makes it a prime area for terrorist concerns.

You want to build a 2000 Mile long wall from California to Texas to cut off the 2nd most important trading partner the US does business with?

TheDoc · 03-29-2006, 01:23 AM

Open the borders for all countries and let us live and work wherever we choose. I have no problems with Mexicans coming here to work, or companies paying them to work, gota work, gota make money, gota go where the money is. Sucks they abuse our medical system and don't pay taxes, but I can go into Canada and do the same thing, and I'm American.

KRL is funny.. Mexico needs a lot more guns to invade. The state of Texas alone could overtake Mexico with the amount of weapons us Texans have.

And whomever said it above.. Mexicans on the East Coast is really starting to grow, even Western NY farms are starting to pick up Mexicans. Now hit the west coast, or say Tucson where if you combine white/black/asian, the Mexicans still out number us 3 to 1.

The problem is an American wants to charge $200 to clean my house for 4 hours. A Mexican wants $100, takes her 4 hours but she does a WAY fucking better job, and she cooks.

Or.. I will not EVER pay an American coder $60k-$100k a year, online coders aren?t worth that amount. I can get a Canadian, better work ethics, they have insurance, and they only want $30k a year. Which is fair for the work seeming they aren?t coding bank software.

Open the borders, my family and your family are immigrants. I?m an English, Indian, German mixture of whatever.. I?m not ?American? and unless your ass is 100% American Indian, neither are you. The land of the free and opportunity for everyone is going down the drain, it?s what our country was built on but people seem to have forgotten that.

Our country needs to do ONE thing. ""Declare an official language"" Then all the Mexicans, Germans, fucking whomever, all have to learn to speak and write English, like they should. Our kids in school should not suffer because other kids can't speak English so it slows the entire school down.

KRL · 03-29-2006, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Open the borders for all countries and let us live and work wherever we choose. I have no problems with Mexicans coming here to work, or companies paying them to work, gota work, gota make money, gota go where the money is. Sucks they abuse our medical system and don't pay taxes, but I can go into Canada and do the same thing, and I'm American.

KRL is funny.. Mexico needs a lot more guns to invade. The state of Texas alone could overtake Mexico with the amount of weapons us Texans have.

And whomever said it above.. Mexicans on the East Coast is really starting to grow, even Western NY farms are starting to pick up Mexicans. Now hit the west coast, or say Tucson where if you combine white/black/asian, the Mexicans still out number us 3 to 1.

The problem is an American wants to charge $200 to clean my house for 4 hours. A Mexican wants $100, takes her 4 hours but she does a WAY fucking better job, and she cooks.

Or.. I will not EVER pay an American coder $60k-$100k a year, online coders aren?t worth that amount. I can get a Canadian, better work ethics, they have insurance, and they only want $30k a year. Which is fair for the work seeming they aren?t coding bank software.

Open the borders, my family and your family are immigrants. I?m an English, Indian, German mixture of whatever.. I?m not ?American? and unless your ass is 100% American Indian, neither are you. The land of the free and opportunity for everyone is going down the drain, it?s what our country was built on but people seem to have forgotten that.

Our country needs to do ONE thing. ""Declare an official language"" Then all the Mexicans, Germans, fucking whomever, all have to learn to speak and write English, like they should. Our kids in school should not suffer because other kids can't speak English so it slows the entire school down.

Great post Doc!!!!

V_RocKs · 03-29-2006, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDF

80 percent of their families are immigrants...want to rethink that statement?

Bullshit...

My daughter plays softball, my son is on track... We know kids from both immigrant kids and 3rd or 4th generation kids...

Guess who is marching? The future failed out of high school ignorant fucktards of Mexican-America...

Guess who is still in school getting an education? The immigrants kids! Why? Because their parents told them not to fuck around with their school, it is their only tool for getting out of the strawberry fields! And that last sentence is pretty much a verbatim quote from an immigrant parent!

So anyone who thinks these kids are actually doing something is basically a dipshit. You probably think that the Bible is the word of God too. Get out of this industry you asshole!

KRL · 03-29-2006, 06:02 AM

Just reading in the newspaper this morning that as much as 80% of Florida's farm workers are undocumented.

Florida provides the bulk of the nation's fruits and vegetables during the winter season.

Drake · 03-29-2006, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

Just reading in the newspaper this morning that as much as 80% of Florida's farm workers are undocumented.

Florida provides the bulk of the nation's fruits and vegetables during the winter season.

Wow that's a huge workforce. If they were all to disappear overnight that would effect the economy dramatically.

Drake · 03-29-2006, 06:39 AM

Can somebody shed light on this ones and for all. The differences between the following:

Latino

Mexican

Hispanic

Spanish

I'm assuming Latino is people from Brazil and South America. They're ancestry is a mixture of white and black peoples. Mexicans are essentially Indians that always lived in North and South America. Hispanic refers to both groups. All these groups are also called Spanish but that's just a bastardization of the word. They speak Spanish and may have some Spanish ancestry but the only Spanish people are whites from Spain in Europe. Did I get it right?

cykoe6 · 03-29-2006, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

I'm actually saying based on future population trends a civil war within the US is a possibility again.

Are you so arrogant to believe the US is invicibale to a war from within? LOL Its only been 150 years since this country was last split in half. That's hardly any time at all.

Between 2000 and 2100, the US Census Bureau is projecting the white percentage of the U.S. population will decline from 72 percent to only 40 percent and will continue to fall after 2100.

At 2050, the white population will no longer be a majority in the US and the country will literally be balkanized, with no single group having political control.

By 2100 1/3rd of the USA will be Hispanic and the white population will be only 8% larger in size. Some computer models are even projecting the possibility that the Hispanic population will overtake the white population because of the fact production of children by whites is trending further down.

Without a majority you end up with fractionalization in the political and economic arenas and a lot of arguments and fighting.

So you better start learning Spanish fast, because that is where we're heading.

I was going to respond to some of your earlier comments but your post here made all of my arguments for me. You have very clearly explained the dangers of unlimited illegal immigration and why it should be stopped. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

KRL · 03-29-2006, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

I was going to respond to some of your earlier comments but your post here made all of my arguments for me. You have very clearly explained the dangers of unlimited illegal immigration and why it should be stopped. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

I don't think anyone has a viable realistic solution. I understand both sides of the argument, but its such a massive problem now because its been tolerated for so long that you just can't effectively stop it with the wave of a magic wand. And you have to be very aware of the economic impact of any solution because the manufacturing and service industries are very dependent on this cheap labor to maintain profitability.

Drake · 03-29-2006, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

I don't think anyone has a viable realistic solution. I understand both sides of the argument, but its such a massive problem now because its been tolerated for so long that you just can't effectively stop it with the wave of a magic wand. And you have to be very aware of the economic impact of any solution because the manufacturing and service industries are very dependent on this cheap labor to maintain profitability.

If we are to lay blame anywhere for the situation it's with the Government and Corporations for not only allowing it but essentially covertly encouraging it for the past 50 years.

The only realistic solution I see is with escorpio's suggestion of some sort of work program. It's done successfully in places like Canada where they have guys from the Carribean work on the farms in the summer and then they return home after the season is over.

Nikki_Licks · 03-29-2006, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

I'm going to assume you're someone else's nik or really young. You are uninformed.

Mexico happens to be our 2nd biggest trade partner.

Last year the US did $290 Billion of business with Mexico.

The GPP (Gross Purchasing Power) of Hispanics in the US is over $700 Billion annually.

And about never giving up your country. The United States is the 4th Largest Hispanic country in the world after Mexico, Colombia, and Spain.

So FYI, it's already given up.

Well KRL, this is my nick, I am not young and as you say I may be uninformed.
I am not anti immigration; but I am anti Illegal Immigration. I understand that immigrants make up a big part work force and they work cheap.

I am only calling it like I see it. We have laws in his country and they apply to everyone. If you want to become a legal citizen, then file the paperwork. I don't see how it should be any different with the situation at hand.
This will be difficult process but something needs to be done and it needs to be done now.
I am not saying send everyone home. These people need to have a chance to apply. If they decide not to apply then they will suffer the consiquinces of being an illegal.

It is not right for US citizens to foot the bill for the illegals. They do not deserve to have any medical or any government assistance.

In AZ., the Hospitals are over run and almost bankrupt from providing free medical to illegals. I have to pay through the nose for our medical; so why should these illegals have something I and other American citizens can't have.

In AZ., the schools are over run with illegals that can't speak English, so they want all the English speaking citizens to learn Spanish. That's bullshit!!! And it isn't going to fly.
The last I heard; it was like 40-50% of the students in AZ can't speak proper English.
Once again we are footing the bill for this crap. Why should illegals be allowed to attend schools that are funded by hard working citizens? This influx of illegals is taking away from the education of others.

We also pay more insurance because of illegals.

About 4 years ago, one of our good friends was on the way home and she was T-Boned. It was a horrible accident. Her daughter 3 years old was killed and Kate had to undergo 3 operations to reconstruct her jaw along with a couple of other operations on her hip.She had un insured motorist on her coverage,but hardly enough to pay for her medical expenses.
Guess what, it was an illegal, had no insurance, no DL and they sent him back to Mexico. If this person was a citizen then he would have got what he deserved.
Insurance, citizenship or what ever it may be, it is still a law. Hell, I don?t like allot of laws, but I have to abide by them or suffer the consequences of not obeying the law...plain and simple.

As I said before; it just goes on and on....

All we do is pay,pay,pay.

Nikki_Licks · 03-29-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

I don't think anyone has a viable realistic solution. I understand both sides of the argument, but its such a massive problem now because its been tolerated for so long that you just can't effectively stop it with the wave of a magic wand. And you have to be very aware of the economic impact of any solution because the manufacturing and service industries are very dependent on this cheap labor to maintain profitability.

I agree with you here. This is going to be a very difficult problem and it needs to be handled carefully.

minusonebit · 03-29-2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikki_Licks

Well KRL, this is my nick, I am not young and as you say I may be uninformed.
I am not anti immigration; but I am anti Illegal Immigration. I understand that immigrants make up a big part work force and they work cheap.

I am only calling it like I see it. We have laws in his country and they apply to everyone. If you want to become a legal citizen, then file the paperwork. I don't see how it should be any different with the situation at hand.
This will be difficult process but something needs to be done and it needs to be done now.
I am not saying send everyone home. These people need to have a chance to apply. If they decide not to apply then they will suffer the consiquinces of being an illegal.

It is not right for US citizens to foot the bill for the illegals. They do not deserve to have any medical or any government assistance.

In AZ., the Hospitals are over run and almost bankrupt from providing free medical to illegals. I have to pay through the nose for our medical; so why should these illegals have something I and other American citizens can't have.

In AZ., the schools are over run with illegals that can't speak English, so they want all the English speaking citizens to learn Spanish. That's bullshit!!! And it isn't going to fly.
The last I heard; it was like 40-50% of the students in AZ can't speak proper English.
Once again we are footing the bill for this crap. Why should illegals be allowed to attend schools that are funded by hard working citizens? This influx of illegals is taking away from the education of others.

We also pay more insurance because of illegals.

About 4 years ago, one of our good friends was on the way home and she was T-Boned. It was a horrible accident. Her daughter 3 years old was killed and Kate had to undergo 3 operations to reconstruct her jaw along with a couple of other operations on her hip.She had un insured motorist on her coverage,but hardly enough to pay for her medical expenses.
Guess what, it was an illegal, had no insurance, no DL and they sent him back to Mexico. If this person was a citizen then he would have got what he deserved.
Insurance, citizenship or what ever it may be, it is still a law. Hell, I don?t like allot of laws, but I have to abide by them or suffer the consequences of not obeying the law...plain and simple.

As I said before; it just goes on and on....

All we do is pay,pay,pay.

Well put. Except for the three laughs after "All we do is pay,pay,pay." Its not funny. Its a damn shame.

Nikki_Licks · 03-29-2006, 08:14 AM

My bad. I know they are suppose to be laughing but they also look like they are crying...LOL

Anthony · 03-29-2006, 08:19 AM

Viva La Raza!!!

bringer · 03-29-2006, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

I don't think anyone has a viable realistic solution. I understand both sides of the argument, but its such a massive problem now because its been tolerated for so long that you just can't effectively stop it with the wave of a magic wand. And you have to be very aware of the economic impact of any solution because the manufacturing and service industries are very dependent on this cheap labor to maintain profitability.

you do realize the "cheap labor" costs the tax payers billions each year? dont you think someone making $40/day which gives them access to housing subsidies, foodstamps, and welfare fairs better than someone making $150/day but gets healthcare taken out of their check and has to pay for food and housing completely. when you also consider that MOST are paid under the table and avoid paying taxes on their earnings, you'll see that people making $20/hour are the real cheap labor.

escorpio · 03-29-2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikki_Licks

Well KRL, this is my nick, I am not young and as you say I may be uninformed.
I am not anti immigration; but I am anti Illegal Immigration. I understand that immigrants make up a big part work force and they work cheap.

I am only calling it like I see it. We have laws in his country and they apply to everyone. If you want to become a legal citizen, then file the paperwork. I don't see how it should be any different with the situation at hand.
This will be difficult process but something needs to be done and it needs to be done now.
I am not saying send everyone home. These people need to have a chance to apply. If they decide not to apply then they will suffer the consiquinces of being an illegal.

It is not right for US citizens to foot the bill for the illegals. They do not deserve to have any medical or any government assistance.

In AZ., the Hospitals are over run and almost bankrupt from providing free medical to illegals. I have to pay through the nose for our medical; so why should these illegals have something I and other American citizens can't have.

In AZ., the schools are over run with illegals that can't speak English, so they want all the English speaking citizens to learn Spanish. That's bullshit!!! And it isn't going to fly.
The last I heard; it was like 40-50% of the students in AZ can't speak proper English.
Once again we are footing the bill for this crap. Why should illegals be allowed to attend schools that are funded by hard working citizens? This influx of illegals is taking away from the education of others.

We also pay more insurance because of illegals.

About 4 years ago, one of our good friends was on the way home and she was T-Boned. It was a horrible accident. Her daughter 3 years old was killed and Kate had to undergo 3 operations to reconstruct her jaw along with a couple of other operations on her hip.She had un insured motorist on her coverage,but hardly enough to pay for her medical expenses.
Guess what, it was an illegal, had no insurance, no DL and they sent him back to Mexico. If this person was a citizen then he would have got what he deserved.
Insurance, citizenship or what ever it may be, it is still a law. Hell, I don?t like allot of laws, but I have to abide by them or suffer the consequences of not obeying the law...plain and simple.

As I said before; it just goes on and on....

All we do is pay,pay,pay.

You just illustrated why AZ should drop it's state income tax and raise the sales tax. Sales taxes hit everybody and are impossible to avoid.

Abuse of welfare is a WELFARE problem, not an immigration problem. Reform th welfare system, make it as hard to get welfare as it is to get a work visa!

kenny · 03-29-2006, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

KRL people work in alot of places that have terrible working conditions. A 'sweat shop' would almost certainly be more pleasant than the foundries and steel mills in this area that people work (and sometimes die) at. Not only are they willing to work under poor conditions - I've been inside some of them when I used to do contracting work and I've seen how miserable it is - but many of them actually consider themselves lucky to get a job in places like that and try to get as much overtime pay as possible.

Travel further south and you would find yourself in an area where many people hope to get the 'opportunity' to work in a coal mine.

The idea that jobs would go unfilled because americans are too lazy or unwilling or something is just invalid IMO.

You are 100% correct. People who say otherwise have no idea on what they're talking about.

I've seen it at every commercial construction site I have ever worked on. I've also seen it when I was a machine technician working in various lumber mills.

The companies who do this usually do it out of greed. The people who benifit from this desire to make extra cash on top of their usual 6-7 figure salaries.

Usually they hire a van full of illegal mexicans whom all live together piled up in some small house.

The illegal worker usually sends the money back to his/her family in Mexico where it goes alot further.

So unless the american worker plans on relocating his family to Mexico and shacking up in the States with 8 co-workers in the same house he can't compete.

KRL · 03-29-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bringer

you do realize the "cheap labor" costs the tax payers billions each year? dont you think someone making $40/day which gives them access to housing subsidies, foodstamps, and welfare fairs better than someone making $150/day but gets healthcare taken out of their check and has to pay for food and housing completely. when you also consider that MOST are paid under the table and avoid paying taxes on their earnings, you'll see that people making $20/hour are the real cheap labor.

I realize cheap labor is one of the only things left keeping manufacturing companies in the US, even if the workers are undocumented. We've lost our edge as a great manufacturing country and the business is all going to China and other asian countries.

FYI undocumented workers don't get housing subsidies, foodstamps, and welfare bro, they don't have valid SS numbers. Maybe poor folks in places like you saw on TV in New Orleans. Illegals usually live multifamily style in one little house. They don't come to the US for handouts. In fact they work so hard, they typically save money to send back home as well as take care of their simple needs here.

A lot now aren't paid under the table. They get taxed. That's why the SSA has accumulated $300 Billion of reported wages with invalid SS #'s that correlate to the regions where the most illegals are. But the government doesn't want to bitch about it because that's all gravy money for the US Treasury that will never have to be paid back to the illegals since they don't file tax returns to get tax refunds.

bringer · 03-29-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

FYI undocumented workers don't get housing subsidies, foodstamps, and welfare bro, they don't have valid SS numbers. Maybe poor folks in places like you saw on TV in New Orleans. Illegals usually live multifamily style in one little house. They don't come to the US for handouts. In fact they work so hard, they typically save money to send back home as well as take care of their simple needs here.

A lot now aren't paid under the table. They get taxed. That's why the SSA has accumulated $300 Billion of reported wages with invalid SS #'s that correlate to the regions where the most illegals are. But the government doesn't want to bitch about it because that's all gravy money for the US Treasury that will never have to be paid back to the illegals since they don't file tax returns to get tax refunds.

Its may be true they dont "qualify" for welfare, but i know for a fact they receive it. They either "borrow" children from family/friends who are born in this country or have one of their own in country at which point each child they have/claim qualifies for benefits. I know plenty of people who work at the welfare department who tell me this happens over and over. When they are caught, the government doesnt even allow their office to report it as fraud but rather tax the benefits they have yet to receive until the money is made back. Ive also been the unfortunate victim of illegals using my ss# as their own. "Contractors" who arent taxed each checks but have their earnings reported to the government each year, similar to what happens with affiliates. It cost me nearly $8000 to prove to the government I didnt live in florida working as a handyman when they audited me for not claiming nearly $40k two companies reported i made. dont even get me started with the collection agencies that came after me for outstanding utility bills from the florida incident. this happens every day and if you think illegals rely on their $40/day to feed, cloth, and provide shelter for themselves and their familys you're sadly mistaken. when left with no other option, they'll do what it takes to stay and survive. hell, they knew entering this country in the middle of the night was illegal yet they're here. you think them guessing numbers on a form for assistance is beyond them?

Peaches · 03-29-2006, 09:06 AM

Why don't they "qualify" for welfare? Remember all those fake SS#'s you were claiming brought in billions? Guess what? Those same fake SS#'s are getting welfare, free education, free medical care, etc.

I still don't understand what part of "illegal" people aren't getting. My parents raised me that if you do something illegal, you pay the consequences.

Peaches · 03-29-2006, 09:10 AM

In addition, the school systems give the kids free education and free food even if they KNOW they're illegal. Ditto with the hospitals. They won't turn them away.

tranza · 03-29-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IncaD

I feel kinda sorry for them, but they are Mexicans and we are Americans.

I can't believe I just read this. Specially from a guy that calls himself "Inca".

minusonebit · 03-29-2006, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

Sales taxes hit everybody and are impossible to avoid.

Not as hard as one might think. Plenty of loopholes for those who know how to use them.

AmateurFlix · 03-29-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

You want to build a 2000 Mile long wall from California to Texas to cut off the 2nd most important trading partner the US does business with?

There are these new inventions that might help alleviate the concerns with having a wall across an area that some people would still like to travel through.

They are called gates.

escorpio · 03-29-2006, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minusonebit

Not as hard as one might think. Plenty of loopholes for those who know how to use them.

Examples?

AmateurFlix · 03-29-2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

I still don't understand what part of "illegal" people aren't getting. My parents raised me that if you do something illegal, you pay the consequences.

Living up to these consequences would be inconvenient for them, so it appears they think everybody else should ignore it

This is why the rhetoric about being a "proud, hard working" people is so laughable. Every culture has proud people and people who work hard. Every culture also has shitheads that spend their lives trying to get away with something. Now ask yourself which of these groups tends to refer to the characteristics of their own culture instead of themselves individually. It's not hard to figure out.

All they need to do is fill out standard immigration forms and wait their turn. This whole issue comes about because some of them don't want to sign their name and wait their turn like everybody else - don't you just love the thought of this country being swarmed with those type of personalities!

Peaches · 03-29-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

Examples?

One of the ways to avoid it is send the money back to Mexico to be spent there - like they are doing now.

Kimmykim · 03-29-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

I realize cheap labor is one of the only things left keeping manufacturing companies in the US, even if the workers are undocumented. We've lost our edge as a great manufacturing country and the business is all going to China and other asian countries.

Hmmm, I think you'd be best not attempting to bring China into this discussion if you're going to talk about labor costs. The cost of semi-skilled and skill labor in China has risen so much lately that Chinese companies are now building factories in other parts of Asia and shipping Chinese workers to staff them (Chinese law requires that 50% of the workers for Chinese goods be Chinese is the figure I believe) so that the Chinese corporations can take advantage of the lower wages they can pay in India, the Phillipines, Malaysia, etc.

By the time you add in shipping costs, and the massive delays in getting goods in a timely fashion shipped from Asia, many US companies are already starting to bring their production lines back to the States.

Anthony · 03-29-2006, 11:46 AM

A Day Without A Mexican...

http://www.adaywithoutamexican.com/index1.htm

Interesting.

wdsguy · 03-29-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

A Day Without A Mexican...

http://www.adaywithoutamexican.com/index1.htm

Interesting.

I'm waiting for the sequel, a day without an asian.

Anthony · 03-29-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdsguy

I'm waiting for the sequel, a day without an asian.

That would affect Canada more than it would the US.

I was in culture shock the first time I went into a Burger King i Canada and the person waiting on me was asian, and not hispanic.

I've seen maybe 5 black guys the whole 5 years I lived in the Vancouver area. Not including when Keith Hill formerly of paycom hung out with me. Man, I was super popular in Vancity then, I was the only guy hanging out with a brother, people thought I was an asian rapper or actor.

Drake · 03-29-2006, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

By the time you add in shipping costs, and the massive delays in getting goods in a timely fashion shipped from Asia, many US companies are already starting to bring their production lines back to the States.

Which companies are doing this?

03-28-2006, 11:56 PM	#166
AmigoPorn Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Mexico - So far away from god, so close to the United States Posts: 21,583	Meet Jim Oberweis. When he mounted a campaign for Senate last year, Oberweis famously used undocumented immigrants as a scapegoat for various economic problems facing the country. In one campaign advertisement, Oberweis claimed ?10,000 illegal aliens a day? are taking American jobs and demanding free health care ? ?enough to fill Soldier Field every single week.? While Oberweis wildly exaggerated statistics about undocumented immigrants during his Senate campaign, he has also taken advantage of them at his company.[.....more] __________________ ICQ: 267899523

03-29-2006, 01:23 AM	#169
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	Open the borders for all countries and let us live and work wherever we choose. I have no problems with Mexicans coming here to work, or companies paying them to work, gota work, gota make money, gota go where the money is. Sucks they abuse our medical system and don't pay taxes, but I can go into Canada and do the same thing, and I'm American. KRL is funny.. Mexico needs a lot more guns to invade. The state of Texas alone could overtake Mexico with the amount of weapons us Texans have. And whomever said it above.. Mexicans on the East Coast is really starting to grow, even Western NY farms are starting to pick up Mexicans. Now hit the west coast, or say Tucson where if you combine white/black/asian, the Mexicans still out number us 3 to 1. The problem is an American wants to charge $200 to clean my house for 4 hours. A Mexican wants $100, takes her 4 hours but she does a WAY fucking better job, and she cooks. Or.. I will not EVER pay an American coder $60k-$100k a year, online coders aren?t worth that amount. I can get a Canadian, better work ethics, they have insurance, and they only want $30k a year. Which is fair for the work seeming they aren?t coding bank software. Open the borders, my family and your family are immigrants. I?m an English, Indian, German mixture of whatever.. I?m not ?American? and unless your ass is 100% American Indian, neither are you. The land of the free and opportunity for everyone is going down the drain, it?s what our country was built on but people seem to have forgotten that. Our country needs to do ONE thing. ""Declare an official language"" Then all the Mexicans, Germans, fucking whomever, all have to learn to speak and write English, like they should. Our kids in school should not suffer because other kids can't speak English so it slows the entire school down. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

03-29-2006, 06:02 AM	#172
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	Just reading in the newspaper this morning that as much as 80% of Florida's farm workers are undocumented. Florida provides the bulk of the nation's fruits and vegetables during the winter season. __________________ If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION! * * * * * * * * * * * * Domains Adult News KRL's Newsletter Biz Tips Just Listed Domains

03-29-2006, 08:14 AM	#181
Nikki_Licks Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Behind The Lens Posts: 6,323	My bad. I know they are suppose to be laughing but they also look like they are crying...LOL __________________ Amateur Content ICQ: 292 356 077

03-29-2006, 08:19 AM	#182
Anthony Keyboard Warrior Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: One of the outer rings of Hell Posts: 9,653	Viva La Raza!!! __________________

03-29-2006, 06:39 AM	#174
Drake Hello world! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 12,508	Can somebody shed light on this ones and for all. The differences between the following: Latino Mexican Hispanic Spanish I'm assuming Latino is people from Brazil and South America. They're ancestry is a mixture of white and black peoples. Mexicans are essentially Indians that always lived in North and South America. Hispanic refers to both groups. All these groups are also called Spanish but that's just a bastardization of the word. They speak Spanish and may have some Spanish ancestry but the only Spanish people are whites from Spain in Europe. Did I get it right?

03-29-2006, 09:06 AM	#188
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	Why don't they "qualify" for welfare? Remember all those fake SS#'s you were claiming brought in billions? Guess what? Those same fake SS#'s are getting welfare, free education, free medical care, etc. I still don't understand what part of "illegal" people aren't getting. My parents raised me that if you do something illegal, you pay the consequences.

03-29-2006, 09:10 AM	#189
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	In addition, the school systems give the kids free education and free food even if they KNOW they're illegal. Ditto with the hospitals. They won't turn them away.

03-29-2006, 11:46 AM	#197
Anthony Keyboard Warrior Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: One of the outer rings of Hell Posts: 9,653	A Day Without A Mexican... http://www.adaywithoutamexican.com/index1.htm Interesting. __________________