lynch1000s

Yeah, I have to side with the parents issue. Even though I don't agree with everything that tam does with her children, I can say that if I had a relationship like that, then I would be in a different position in life.

Growing up, neither of my parents listened to me. And if they did listen to me, they'd usually end up yelling at me because they thought I should always be doing exactly what they told me to do. This was tough cause they always had unbelievably high expectations of me.

Now they wondering why I've ignored them for the past 5 years. I don't have any confidence in talking to them. I feel as if I talk to them, they'll either yell at me, or try to make me do exactly what they want. I was basically raised to think that way.

If parents gave their kids someone they could talk to and trust, maybe the kids would be able to reason with them. If a kid isn't happy at a school, maybe then he could talk to them about switching.

That may not seem like much to some, but I'm still scared to talk to my parents about anything. And you might even laugh, but I wouldn't tell them a thing that's going on in my life. Hell I could get married, have kids, own a major corporation. I would still never tell them. It's just unfortunate, and I just can't switch my mind about talking to them about anything remotely personal.

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aprilkorova

Wow...there is obviously a lot of people here that feel as passionately about this as I. That's a good feeling. I'm working on a gallery so I don't have time to read all the posts right now..I'll do so later this afternoon. Just wanted to briefly say that all of you that suggest banning guns...I would have to disagree although I don't own one never will it is too long of an argument to get into here right now. And most important...for all those who understand that is the parents who are most at fault for how society has taken a turn for the worse...BRAVO! It all starts in the home. I cannot guarantee that my son will not grow up to be a criminal but I'm a hands on kind of parent, no bullshit. No disrespecting attitude, no shoot 'em up movies or video games, very little television, virtually no computer time and a lot of quality time just him and me...talking, joking, teaching morals, values, ethics, empathy,etc. It is all I can do. I don't shelter him, he is very wise in the ways of the world, just trying to bring up the best damn person I can. It is everybody's interest that I succeed. He will be out in the world soon.

Dyanna

ahh, we do agree on something then moose

Society in general, and parents in particular, are many times (but not always) failing in these cases. I'd still like to see more done to eliminate hand guns, but that just doesn't look like a reality.

Unfortunately, holding parents responsible means more laws and govt. intervention too though.

Part of me too though is just so sick of all of this "passing the buck" mentality and the lawsuits that come with it.

But that's a whole 'nother post

lynch1000s

Sorry april, but I have to disagree with your parenting just as much as I would with tams.

I personally believe that giving a child freedom is one of the ways you can get them to trust you in return. Now I don't know how old your son is, but keeping him back from doing too many things isn't right.

Here's my says. Let your kids know that they can trust you from a very early age. Encourage them to join recreational activities to keep them socializing, and out of the tv/computer all day. And give them guidelines, but don't force them to not watch t.v. and just do their homework all day. Just make sure their homework is done and then let them relax. Make sure that everything that they do is consistent. If they are a B student in school, and then get an A, give them positive feedback. If they are a B student and get a C, encourage them to work harder next time.

You just have to find a middle ground. Allow them to mess up without getting all over them. But if they make a huge mistake, then punish them. All I'm saying is keep them in a certain amount of boundries. If they go out of those boundries, push them back in. But don't make life tougher on them than it already is.



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sKiTz

The problem isn't guns... or porno on the web.... or any other such thing.


The problem is STUPID, IRRESPONSIBLE fucking ass parents who are too fucking lazy to supervise their kids.

aprilkorova

Lynch,

He's only nine...and I agree with you and do all that you just stated. He is too young to watch violent tv/movies/video games without risking de-sentization and a warped sense of reality. Also, I specifically stated that I do not shelter him without going in to details to make it clear that you have to let your kids experience life. He is a fantastic basketball player, just made the all star team, very proud. He's also already 5'5" so it's a little easier to rebound LOL. He plays football. He loves to draw and paint. He is a fanatic with his Legos and builds extremely intricate structures. He is in our back yard playing b-ball everyday. He loves music but there will be no violent, mysoginistic, etc. rap/metal, etc. He has friends over who never seem to mind the lack of "modern" entertainment. And, most importantly, we talk. We talk about the world, politics, crime, drugs, sex anything and everything he wants or needs to know. He is a very well rounded, mature, and wordly boy. I guess I should have been more specific. The only thing he is without is violence FOR ENTERTAINMENT( he does watch the world news or whatever occasionally so he does see violence and knows it exists, unfortunately he needs to.) and the mind sucking influence of TV and computers...except in moderation. I am far from a perfect mom and many would disagree with my parenting methods but we have a good relationship that I fight everyday to keep. A nice balance of friendship, discplinarian, confidant and teacher. By the way I had him when I was seventeen so I knew that I was going to have to do an above average job as children of teen age moms are more likely to be fucked up according to the statistics.

rhizome

Ha sKiTz, I knew you and 12clicks were the same person! The problem isn't the parents or the family or the gov't or the school system or the media - it's the sun. I killed because the sun made me do it. Why does everyone look for meaning behind some action? In a hyper-real society devoid of all meaning, paranoia rules. Lynch provides the perfect example of why people kill - lead the child outside of the door, let the child have a multitude of experiences . . . but not too much. We are taught diversity but it is always limited. There is conservative conspiracy to pretend as if pure difference does not exist when this same conspiracy opens the door to difference. Have difference only so long as this difference is finite? What kind of hypocrisy is this? It's as if you turned on your computer one day and were presented were countless teasing images but as hard as you search for that one images that will bring you over the top, that will allow you to experience the infinite, you will never find this image. Imagine how crazy you would go? To be tempted with schizophrenia only to be pulled back - clinical schizophrenia is only true schizophrenia that has been cut short. It is as if you would have been better off never turning on the computer in the first place. "Why did you kill," asks the sheriff. "Because I couldn't cum," replies the murderer. Because the sun made me - a totally empty statement but much more true than putting the blame on something else. There comes a time when the conspiracy realizes that in order to cover itself up its own hypocrisies, it must deflect blame. It will try everything - it will call you insane, it will blame the parents, the system, the gov't . . . anything under the sun but it will never blame the sun. Just look at the Unabomber - a brilliant man with a brilliant idea, completely novel, completely revolutionary but he's dismissed as a wacko. Why? Because he declares he's not insane. Ha, the person's crazy because he says he's not! I sort of feel for all these kids that go into schools with guns ablazing. They're turned into these pitiful characters who never got any attention, who were picked on at school, etc. When really they just killed because the sun made them do it. Finally, there have always been bad parents and there have been guns hanging around homes for quite a while, but these school shooting are a recent thing, a phenomenon onto themselves. A modern explanation no longer suffices - we have long since surpassed modernity.

lynch1000s

Well, him being 9 is a different story, but again, I had no clue how old he was. As far as I'm concerned, he seems fine.

But again, the last thing I forgot to mention is that you have to make sure he's happy. That is something you should monitor the most. If he is very active in sports, and has a lot of friends, then he is most likely happy. Heck I applaud your efforts. I wish I was like him growing up. I wasn't, not even close. My parents never had me join up in recreational activities. They always had high expectations of me. They never really did anything but tell me what to do and yell at me. Sure they loved me, but they didn't raise me like they should've. And the end, it hurt me big time. My only friends growing up were trouble makers. A lot of them are in jail, most of them are messed up from drugs, and none of them lived normal happy lives like your son. I never really got to hang out with people in high school because I ditched those bad friends and concentrated on school. I eventually gave up. I never did drugs or alcohol, and I'm very lucky for that reason. But one reason why I never did anything like that is because I didn't have anyone to do it with. As far as sports are concerned, I played them, but I never was anything more than someone with good potential. Anyways, my suggestions, now that I look at them, are just based around ideas that I wish someone would've told my parents growing up. I just felt very stressed out growing. Heck, I'm a lot younger than you might think, so everything is fresh in my mind. But remember, just keep your son happy.

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titmowse

Ya know what? I call it Blaze of Glory Syndrome.

These are kids that have clued into a way to direct their apparent mental illness into a socialogical pathogen.

These kids do not just, suddenly blow. They do exibit other troubled behaviors before they get to this point.

These kids have been exposed to just the right and rather common mix of humiliation, negative stimuli and denial of their pain. Oh, and exposure to guns. They hurt and they are mentally ill as I am sure many a parent can tell you, all teens are. :0}

These kids will keep doing this until something either way more awful happens or something is done. I'm afraid it's an intoxicating epidemic we are seeing here.

This is a fucking clinical mental disease. This belongs under the auspices of the CDC maybe just as much as it belongs in the hands of the constitution.

Do I think gun control is necessary? Hell yeah. The gun control we need is to not buy so many fucking guns. I get having one gun. But three, four, five? We're real human adults, not Charles fucking Bronson.

But moreso, so many parents have kids that are very troubled and they don't get them the counseling they need because there's this incredible stigma associated with mental illness.

I know, some of these Blaze of Glory boys have been on/off counseling or medication. I am stimied even more by the parents of teens who have kids messed up enough to see shrinks and STILL have guns in da house. How stoopid is that?

All I know is the signs are there before this shit happens. I believe that in my heart. We as a country have to address what we need to do about this obvious epidemic of mental illness. Cause in case you ain't aware, the adults are doing it too and they are keeping up with the kids pretty evenly.

Blaze of Glory Syndrome. It's gonna keep happening and happening and happening. What will you do about it?

.

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lynch1000s

Now that I think about it, it was really girls that messed me up

Seriously that and my parents. Heck my parents always tried to say that I had to be perfect. I believed them. I believed that the only way to make money was to get straight A's in school, go to college, and then get a good job, of course that is a joke

Anyways, the second part of being perfect revolved around looks. Hell, look at what kids are watching on tv now a days- Britney Spears half naked kissing some guy that's half naked. There is more to it than just parents and gunsand government.

Again, a good point of why a lot of school shooting occur in upper class suburbs is because of the pressure involved with living in upper class suburbs. Where else are you expected not just well rounded, but nearly perfect.

Well that's what was expected of me growing up. Oh well, I don't even know what I'm saying at this point

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aprilkorova

Wow Lynch..You really bummed me out. I'm so sorry you didn't enjoy your childhood, I can totally relate. My childhood sucked. Broke as a joke, fucked up ex-hippy parents, surrounded by alcoholics and drug users (early on...fucking 70's LOL), absolutely no supervision, on my own at 15, need I go on? .I also went down the wrong path, hell you don't get knocked up at 16 coming from a good upbringing (well usually not). BUT and this is a big but (not my big butt ) I knew I was loved. There was never any question about that. That's what saved my sanity. Besides I turned out OK. Graduated highschool at 15, college at 20, good jobs even being a single teenage mom blah, blah, blah. Done patting myself on the back . Boy, but I stumbled many a time. Lots of times I should have been dead or in jail. Thats what happens when you send a kid out in todays world without properly teaching them how to survive and thrive.

Oh and by the way after reading my post I realized that I made myself out to be a much better parent than I really feel I am. I'm constantly fucking up it seems, constantly plagued with guilt about did I do that right? Did I handle that right? Omigod I yelled at him cuz I'm PMS'd out, now his feelings are hurt, I suck, etc.,etc. That's parenting though. Nobody's perfect...you just have to do the best you can with what you have. And most importantly always go that extra mile and never get lazy or complacent cuz raising a child is the most important thing you will ever do in life. And I agree, making sure your child is happy is VERY important, within reason, you can bet your ass my son is not a happy camper when I make him do his homework or chores LOL.

lynch1000s

Haha, don't feel bad for me. I went through a lot as a kid, well I still am a kid. But I had/have a lot of hope. Remember, I was trying to be perfect, and am still trying to be perfect. I feel good about a lot of good things about myself. In fact, would rather be me, than anyone else in this world. There were a lot of things in school that made me very happy. But I was so stressed out from trying to be perfect. But with that stress came all my family problems and many other problems. Being alone was basically me just rejecting everyone after a while cause I felt that I didn't have the time for anyone else. I had friends though. Anyways, trust me, my hope goes beyond most people's, and I'm thankful for everything I have. I shouldn't have sounded so negative, but I've been through 10 times as many things as most my age, I can assure you that. Only problem at this point is that I still feel the need to be perfect, but everytime I correct one of my imperfections, something else just comes up.

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Tam

lynch.... their happiness is sooo very much in the front of our minds as we raise our kids. Their ages are as follows:

Girl will be 17 this weekend
Boy will be 12 in April
Boy just turned 7 in December
Girl just turned 3 in January

I have them in ALL age groups... wanna talk about a bitch keeping them all happy.. YOU try and keep them all happy when dealing with that many in that many different age groups.

There are times when their safety has to be put above their happiness and I can't help if I tell them they can't go out with that drunken fool and it makes them unhappy!! It's for their own good. And I am so sorry to inform you of the plain and simple fact that alot of friends and active in sports does not necessarily mean they are happy. On the contrary, there are a ton of kids that are active in sports and have a ton of friends that are far from happy.

My oldest daughter is about ready to get her first car.... she was told early on that she is to pay 1/2 of the cost of this car, I am not going to go out and totally buy this car for her as she has to know that shit doesn't come free. So what does she do? Instead of whining, she goes and gets a job and she is putting 1/2 of her check back every payday to put towards a car so when in June, she has a license, she will have a car.

We moved in December and my kids had to hange schools...... well he is on the Academic team and very active in the school band, has loads of friends....... but this child was so miserable for about a month that I spent more one on one time with him than I ever have, trying to find out what was bothering him.... talked to principals, councelors.. you name it and I did it all...... I could have played the cop out and just said "oh it's his age" but on the contrary, I went the extra mile to find out what was causing him to be so miserable.... turns out he was being bullied and one of his teachers were giving him such a hard time that he was beginning to fail in school........ this child, who in your scheme of things, should have been happy.... afterall he is active in Band and on the Academic team and has a ton of friends...... well baby, he was the most miserable of all my kids. So your theory on all of this keep them happy thing is not always the case if they have friends and sports and shit like that.

My daughter just recently had to write a paper on who inspired her the most...... and I had no idea she was even writing a paper, I found it by accident the other night while cleaning my table off....... do you know who she said inspired her the most? It was not one of her loads of friends. it was me she wrote about....... I sat down and cried like a baby.... here all this time I was unsure anything I said was getting thru to her.... ME, her mom who does things that don't always make her happy.... this Mom who has forced her to see the real world for what it is, this mom who has taught her how to shoot that gun...... taught her that I would lay down and die for her if she is in the right but will not back her in the slightest if she is wrong, who has taight her that if she screws up she stands alone, but if she is in the right, I am right there for her. It was me...... you have no idea how that makes me feel It makes me know I am doing something right as a mom.

my kids are allowed to play video games, watch all the "bad" tv shows and listen to all that "bad" music... BUT they are taught that is is NOT reality, reality is the choices they make with the cards they are dealt, and they are taught that the choices they make NOW will follow them always. My kids restrictions are very minimal, as follows....

1)Always stick to what you belive in, if people make fun of you, so what, they are words and they don't hurt.
2)Don't show me or anyone in my home any disrespect, you are allowed to disagree but are not allowed to do it in a disrectful manner!!
3)For every single action you take there is ALWAYS a reaction, maybe not right now but there is always going to be a reaction, so think before you act.
4)Be big enough to stand up and take any punishment you have coming to you for anything you do that is immoral or illegal, or just plain disrepectful.

The only thing in my house that is forbidden to my kids is porn.... not because it is dirty, as I was taught by MY parents. Just for the simple fact I don't think they are ready for that yet.... But how can I look into their faces, ANY of them and tell them that SEX is bad, if this is the case I may as well be telling them that I don't want them....... afterall isn't this how I got them? No way will I ever tell them that sex is bad.. not ever.. but I teach them to be responsible with that as they are with anything else they do in their lives.

Ok, I went into long winded mode here... but there are reasons I do what I do with my kids....... my oldest will be going out on her own in a year, and I can tell you this much, if the rest of my kids leave me with the morals and responsibility this one has then I can die peacefully and without regret.

Tam



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lynch1000s

Sorry tam if I pissed you off I thought you didn't like me Anyways, I'm about the same age as your oldest daughter, what the fuck would I know anyways If you want to know why I'm here, I got into the only e-comm industry half way through my senior year in high school, and have had a decent amount of success. Heck at the rate I'm going, by the end of the year I'll be making twice as much as my father, the CEO of his medical company. I never said to take what I said seriously, or to listen to me. But I am a kid still dealing with their parents, so I do see the other side of all this shit.
I'm also just trying to help

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NakedChik

Ok I have to get my opinion in here. Making guns illegal is not the answer. The killers at Columbine obtained their guns illegally. I grew up in a household that had many guns. My dad taught hunter's education, they were always around me. I knew never to go into his room and play with them. I NEVER did. I was able to shoot his guns at my grandfather's farm when I was 8, because I started taking classes on safe handling.
I learned to shoot pistols when I was 10, and shotguns and rifles when I was 12. I have never shot anything other then a paper target. I was always picked on in school. I was miserable until my junior year (when I gave up on trying to fit in and learned to be myself). It never even crossed my mind to shoot anybody that was cruel to me. My parents divorced and my mom had to work 2 jobs and my dad was never around once he got remarried. I had little supervision growing up, but I had very strict rules and strict consequences if I broke those rules. I think I turned out ok.

By the way, aprilkorova I think it's great that you spend so much quality time with your son. My best friend had her daughter at 15 and I know how hard it was for her. I think parent's like you should be commended.

Tam

lynch..... you could not be more wrong if you tried sweetie.... I totally have NO problem with you.... I respect what you say and respect the honesty. BUT as a parent it's not always easy. and there are times when we as parents have got to do things that do not make them happy at that moment in time.

BUT what I always relay to my kids is that I am here for them and no matter what they do, there is a way to deal with it, just be honest with me. And my kids do lie at times, but after a bit of talking they spit it out. My oldest is forever telling me she can't lie to me if she tried. She sometimes hates the fact that I know every word that is coming out of her mouth before she says it. lol

AND like april, there are times when I yell at them and I feel like shit about it, but a simple I am so sorry, it wasn't your fault, I am in a bad mood will fix it. I let them know I am human and I make mistakes too. I never ever let my kids think that I am always right and they are always wrong.... no way.. and they have seen me and my hubby argue.. not fight, but argue. I don't want them to get married and fly at the first argument....... they have to know that it's ok to disagree, but you don't stop loving or caring.

But no way did you make me mad....... I am just very very passionate about my kids and their well being. And you are doing very well now for yourself. ALL kids have a certain amount of horror stories as children, the rich have their demons and so do the poor..... there is not one child anywhere that doesn't have demons on some level.... not one!!!! Some are more costly than others, but they all have them babe.

I was abused in the worst kind of ways as a child, neither of my parents gave a shit fuck less whether I was dead or alive and told me as much.. BUT I never at any point want pity for that..... as bad as it was, it made me a better person in that I know how NOT to treat my kids. LOL

Sorry if I gave you the impression I was mad or disliked you, it's not the case.. a good healthy debate is always good.

Tam

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lynch1000s

Let me add a third section to my synopsis. Not all kids are the same, and should be treated differently. I made to many presumptions in my previous two. Yes, the most important things that a parent can do is to keep a good communication between yourself and the child. Make sure that they are happy. Keep them in certain boundaries. Hmmmmm, please let me add a fourth section to this synopsis

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lynch1000s

I was joking about the hate, did you see the . Or should I have put rotflmao

Hehe, I'm pretty juvenile as you can tell

Anyways, sorry, I wouldn't know a damn thing about parenting. Hell, my relationship with my parents have been a bit too complex that I prefer not talking about it here.

Anyways, every kid is different. I think that finding a middle ground on most terms could help. I really think that there is no perfect parenting, nor is there a such thing as raising a child to be perfect. So, in other words, I don't know what I'm talking about I just see things from the other side

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aprilkorova

NakedChick,
Thank you so much. It was my choice to have my son (not get an abortion) and I felt that it was my duty to do my best by him. Your thoughtful comment is very appreciated. It s sooooo fucking hard to raise a kid, especially when you're a kid yourself .

Lynch,

I don't think you pissed Tam off, I just think that she was trying to let you know that being a parent is more than just making your kids happy, it's about keeping them safe, raising them well, making sure they get good grades to the best of their ability and these things are not always going to make them happy LOL. Besides that I know what you mean, or at least I think I do. You want parents to be mindful of how painful it is to grow up and to be empathetic to that pain and not shove it aside in lieu of succeeding at all costs. I get it, and having read Tam's posts at AWI, GFY and Wolfshades for all this time,I almost feel like I know her, how crazy is that LOL, I'm sure she would agree. As parents we just want kids/the public to know that what is in their best interests is not always what is going to make them the happiest but we would be failing as parents and failing them if we didn't try. By the way, for as young as you are, you have your shit together...rock on.

Tam,

I have for a very long time admired you from afar for your experience in the biz and for your incredible tenacity in stopping cp and not to mention your popularity with the OG's of the biz LOl. Takes a lot of courage and intelligence to make it in this male-orientated biz. I feel very similar to you as a parent and with all the flighty heads in the clouds parents I come across every day in the schools (and I would bet you do too) it is refreshing to know others out there feel as strongly about our "little people" as you do. We differ on the violent content of videos,music,movies but I've never thought my way was right. Shit, I haven't a clue. So I don't think it is "wrong"... I just want to take the easy road and play it safe, you know? If you feel that that stuff is cool for your kids, logic says that your parenting is probably going to counteract any bad visuals/stimuli that they get from that stuff. Me...I'm not so confident in my parenting. I'm still so young, far too young to be responsible for the upbringing of another human. I may be playing it a little too safe but fuck what else can I do... I don't hold the answers. God knows I wish I did. Anyway enough blabbering..you are a stand up female..you handle your shit and raise your kids well. That automatically puts you in the top 10% of parents. Bravo and good luck to you and yours.

April

lynch1000s

Haha, me and tam go way back. I think about 4 days.

Anyways, I made a comment to her once, she responded, and I just said geez, don't get crazy or something like that. Then she said, did you see the rotfl.

confusing I know, it's an inside secret between me and tam
Oh well, guess you had to be there

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lynch1000s

Also, tam is a parent of multiple children april. You have to realize that makes a huge difference. I've noticed that once you have a second or third kid (or maybe I haven't ) that the parenting shifts a bit from being a parent always on the look out, to a parent trying to keep it all together.

But, I think that you are both good parents. I'm not sure what I would do as a parent, and know that I wouldn't be able to do something like that at my age.

Heck if I was a parent at 17, I wouldn't have made it.

Just love your kids, let them have someone to talk to, and keep them on a level ground.

The rest is up to you

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Gemini

Wow Tam! Talk about setting yourself up! I have to applaud you for any framework of sanity with having kids in all those age ranges at the same time!! lol I'd short circuit I think. Mines grown and gone but just dealing with a 17 and 13 yo stepset is trying and I don't see them often!

Oh and Dyanna, I'd not say something if I hadn't read it myself darlin'. I'm not some young fly off the handle kid. The statistics our govt pays for would boggle your mind. They even do the statistics on what guns the bad guys used. They did that back when the Sat nite special debate was going on in fact. The knew THEN that the cheap guns were not the most used street gun. It was another form of control to remove the 40 dollar guns.

I suggest you delve in to the govt sites and search. I have no wish to travel 1000 miles to the Union Headquarters just to see what URL's they have on thir indices and were suggested reading while we are in training. But don't say something doesn't exist. I have no need to make things up at this late date in life. I used to be basically anti-gun too.

Anyone hear about the kid last week arrested for having a bomb in his locker at school? Thankfully he had messed up a few of the parts so it wouldn't go off like he wanted it too, but you can make a bomb in the kitchen. Sugar is a heck of a explosive when mixed with other common things. Flour will flash explode if tossed in front of a high powered fan and ignited. Yes I am getting that info from the old man. He was trained to use whats available, but all that info is right here and unprotected on the net for anyone to read and try.
So if they ever get around to shutting porn sites down this way of looking at things means the puters will all have to go since they are the tool of choice.

Dyanna

Gemini, ok maybe my comment was a bit hasty. I'm sure you did read that statistic somewhere - more than likely on a pro gun site. Just like I've read countless other studies that show just the opposite. Almost all studies are private - i.e financed by the NRA or gun control advocates.

When statistics and politics mix you take the desired outcome and then fit the data to prove it. It's done by both sides.

Anyway, an unbiased report released by the FBI or ATF would be welcomed by me. Such a thing doesn't exist to my knowledge. So, I mainly tend to ignore statistics from both sides and focus my choice on the one thing that I know sounds good - less guns

Gemini

I *did* mention I read that while at the Union I work for's training cwenter in DC. They aren't hooked up to pro or anti gun sites. They have indices of FEDERAL statistics dbases for us to read up on all the great choices the politico's make involving multitudes of things, Sure the stats are usually a year old since it takes time to run the numbers and recheck. Are you so naive that you don't think the feds have info on things you never heard of? They have stats on unbelieveable things. The FBI, DEA, NSA, and a whole lot more cover crimes from many angles. So if there is a slant its for the feds to look better.
GFY! and read before running your fingers on the keys. I read that info so as to be better prepared to argue it with my old man. I gave the idea up since I didn't have a leg to stand on.

Dyanna

*sigh*

ok gemini. Sorry this gets you so upset you have to resort to telling people to fuck off.

Again, if you're a statistics fan you'd be interested to note that those FBI, DEA, and ATF figures on crime are cited by BOTH sides of the argument. It all depends on how you slice them up

Regardless, it's much like the abortion issue because there is no one right answer. Choosing either gun rights or gun control is very much give and take.

TheFLY

These are all good points ;)

Yeah guns aren't really the problem -- it's really just too easy to kill a human -- we are pretty delicate...

If you're really worried about staying alive you can also take defensive measures -- move to another location where there is less crime (there are still places in the US where nobody locks their doors) -- move to a safer country, or get a security system, move to a gated apartment w/ security -- don't put yourself in a place where there is crime -- keep your kids safe -- teach them at home -- hire a tutor... Having a gun is a form of security -- but it's not the ultimate answer for your personal safety...

Also if you like guns then just fucking admit it -- just say, "I just fucking like guns, I like the way they look, the craftmanship, the way they feel, the ammo, the power, the noise -- fuck I like to shoot things etc. etc..." -- don't hide behind the mask of personal safety and all that bullshit.

I think the real problem at the root of crime is the economy -- real wages have been falling for over 20 years. Only the very top % of our population is actually making more money adjusted for inflation. The family has been strained as a result -- now mom AND dad have to work to pay the bills -- children are now economic liabilities -- they are no longer economic assets... when dad leaves the family his income jumps dramatically. The problem is the world is changing -- because we are a more connected Earth, jobs are moving out of the US... wages are falling -- we have to compete. Why are Americans so special? We aren't so special anymore...

Crime is a result of not having money, directly or indirectly... (I could list a thousand examples but there's no point) anyway this is capitalism -- survival of the fittest -- the smartest (and/or most privilaged) will be the richest and the safest... the poorest will always be looking over their shoulder.

What is the answer? I don't think capitalism is going anywhere -- so get that fucking money and be at the top of the food chain, and don't put yourself in a situation where you are going to worry about crime (or where you need a gun to protect yourself).

To be honest though, I think weapons laws work... Cops will stop and search just about anyone they feel looks suspicious -- fuck they can find a way to search you if they want to... (there are statutes that allow them to do this) I'm not even a criminal and I got arrested for having a piece of pointed metal in my pocket -- my friend got arrested for having a knife under his drivers seat (this is in Florida) -- these laws do keep us pretty safe...

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-- thefly.net

Gemini

Hmm yep the right to not be illegally searched seems tto have gone by the wayside. Anymore they search everyone in Ohio they speak too it seems like.

On the kids has anyone noticed that most of them have a HUGE lack of common sense? They can have a high IQ in book smarts but can't figure out how to do minor little patch jobs or things like that. I don't want to say street smarts since that isn't quite right.

TheFLY

Rhizome I think you have a good fucking point... I will need to read your post again (you embrace your own lack of reason hehe) -- but shit look at movies like Blue Velvet and Hannibal... is the villain really wrong... or is he just a cool guy that's decided to make his own decisions. Before there was an actual code book that all movies had to follow (ie: the bad guy always loses in the end...)

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-- thefly.net

nofx

just kill yourself

no one cares

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spunkmaster

Listen to 50 cent and he's a hero for being shot 9 fucking times !

That's all you need to know about the problem with shooting kids !

Kevsh

Such backwards thinking, and that's the mentality of so many. It's a chicken/egg problem. Law abiding citizens get guns legally. Eventually a percentage of these guns fall into the wrong hands (i.e. criminals). If you outlaw guns altogether NOBODY can get them.

Unfortunately, your reasoning is correct because there are so many guns that are sold every year and now you've got a country with more guns than can every be collected (taken out of the hands of everyone). But you have to start somewhere ... instead of just adding more guns to the street by continually making them legally available.

Odin88

Why don't you outlaw cars why you are at it Mrs Stalin? Might save a fair few more lives (including childrens) why your at it.

emthree

what the fuck?

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Twe Russ

"Guns dont kill people, people kill people"

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12clicks

its very satisfying to me when someone bumps an old thread and I see that most of the people who disagreed with me are no longer here.
Just as today's current rabble won't likely be here in a couple years. ;)

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