aprilkorova

This school shooting shit has got me down (San Diego). I've tried to keep prospective about it and realize that these are isolated incidents and have done a good job of it so far but... These are babies that had their whole lives ahead of them They think if a jock puts them down that they can go get "their nine" and put an end to it. I know our society has always been violent but in the past children were not the type of victims they are now. I'm so sick of this shit. Anyone else? I'm not suggesting outlawing guns or censorship of violent music/movies...I'm suggesting that parents start being parents and realize that there is certain music/movies,etc that need a grown-up mind to comprehend it as it should be...entertainment and not a way of life! Something is seriously wrong..I watched a highschool in my hometown(eugene/springfield,Oregon) get blown to bits, and I know most of you have experienced this shit too close to home. What do we do? How can we once again send our kids to school/the world and feel that they can be safe? Oh, i'm just blabbering now...just want to know what you guys think.

RedShoe

I just got home, so I'm not sure of the details. I just heard that 2 kids were killed in a school shooting.

I honestly believe we are all products of our parents. My parents were open minded and caring and let me explore. They were and still are there for me when I need advice or guidance.

I think that people (or in this case kids) that kill other people come from broken homes, or were neglected or abused in some way. Normal kids don't act like this.

The neighbors always say, "they were quiet, kept to themselves..." but no one knows what goes on behind closed doors.

As a society we are slowly turning into a sci-fi future that only used to be in the movies. In time, our society will be dark and over crowded, and jaded.

Maybe this whole thing has got me down as well.

Jamdin

It's interesting what's going on with the youth of today. Last week, the local high school had a teen boy with a bomb & a hate list in his locker. Luckily, the bomb was missing a few minor parts. They are investigating the teen & the family so it's been pretty much hushed over.

However, the same school had a teen girl busted for cocaine. When asked where she learned that stuff from, she replied from watching her mother.


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NakedChik

I think it is the saddest thing. The worst part is that people heard him making comments about bringing a gun to school. No one said anything.

Dyanna

My husband and I were robbed at gun-point in our own driveway last year. I read about robberies where people are killed all the time, and now schools aren't even safe.

I'm sorry . . . I know it won't elimnate the problem completely, but it's time we outlawed hand guns. Even if that saves ONE life it's worth it.

Moose

"I'm sorry . . . I know it won't elimnate the problem completely, but it's time we outlawed hand guns"

Dyanna..sorry but you are completly WRONG
Do you actually think a criminal gives a flying fuck if guns are outlawed or not? who do you think will have the upper hand if guns are outlawed? the criminals! All the law abiding citizenz who throw away thier guns to abide to the law will be like ducks in a pond at the shooting gallery.
Drugs are "outlawed" does that do any good? hell no,creates more death than if they were legalized.

If guns are outlawed,only the criminals will have them...no shit

Gemini

We agree Moose. Gee mr robber we don't have our own gun so please be kind while you steal our money. Better, Hey (pulling out your own) Now Mate THIS Is a gun!
Seriously, they'd still get guns. I can go to my ex hubbies and machine a gun in a few hours. Are we going to outlaw machine shops with them? Yes I am-was a trained machinist. Hard on the hands for women.

Moose

Gemini
Yes they would get guns, and would have an easier time getting what they want.
If i was a thug i would be in 7th heaven in an unarmed society.

sKiTz

Hey April, shoot me an email.... [email protected] ....

Dyanna

moose, if you ever decide to reply to anything I say again please at least read it first. Part of the rest of what I said was "Even if that saves ONE life it's worth it."

And the argument you are using is the same one that I'm sick of hearing from the gun lobby.

"citizens" owning guns is not a deterrent to a criminal committing a crime using a gun. Period. In fact, most law enforcement officers will tell you that the worst situation is when an armed criminal encounters an armed "civilian".

I'm not some stupid woman. I do understand that "If guns are outlawed,only the criminals will have them" - and that's precisely the point. Perhaps you need to have a loaded gun to your head or to the head of your spouse and you might re-think your feelings.

Gemini - while that's a nice theory, it really doesn't work that way. Having a gun in your house is one thing - fact is though most robbers avoid houses when people are home. You are much more likely to be a victim of an armed robbery outside in public. You won't have a gun, and if you did wouldn't have time to use it - nor would it be a good idea to even try to get it out - that'd be the best way to get yourself shot.

lynch1000s

sorry

[This message has been edited by lynch1000s (edited 03-06-2001).]

Gemini

Thats a point Dyanna. Personally know of two would be robbers that didn't get what they wanted. lol And we weren't inside the house. One of them will never bother anyone again. You are right on the don't try it. Few have the training to handle that situation. Advice... Marry ex spec ops and live safe. But this is getting away from the thread entirely.

If these kids couldn't get guns they'd use knives, bombs, cars, whatever they could get ahold of. The problem needs to be addressed that while we watched Wile E Coyote fall off a cliff and such, we understood it was make believe. As time goes on and the kids get worse and worse you have to wonder how much the BS tv and games etc have to do with it. They go home and kill 'people' for hours while watching people getting blown up in surround sound on 60 inch screens. The kids aren't understanding the make believe part anymore. How many hear remember asking "Mom how does that coyote get back up?"

Ask any psychologist, the more you do something the more hardened you get to it. And to an immature mind that is dangerous. Any male here that spent time doing any sort of hide and seek jungle fighting with hand to hand should be able to tell you that it hardens them in to a killing machine just to survive. And they were 'trained' and 'debriefed' to a degree. But it hangs on. If they see someone getting killed they more likely will jump in rather than run.

Bottom line is taking guns away deter nothing. Look at the so called gunless countries. The anti-gun ppl forget to mention that while gun killings go down, the other forms of killing are right up there with our stats. Those stats more than cover the per capita including our gun deaths. Also look at the stats of the few cities that make it mandatory for EVERYone to have and carry a gun. they are like 0.02% compared to 12% of other cities.

Anyone remember the first time they got kissed and how exciting it was? (Older folks here) Now thats nothing but it will sure get a rise out of the adrenelin as well as the buddies to talk about wiping out a group of people. Kids aren't getting the excitement like we used to. It has to be MORE and MORE daring. So where do they go from kissing, then sex, sneak drinking,drugs...

The schools do need to work on that problem of kids getting picked on. My old man was picked on when he was a child. Someone decided martial arts would cure that. It did. If the schools had been abit more involved as well as the parents teaching these bullies that thats not how to act, then maybe it would happen alot less. Now with both parents working and the schools overworked and understaffed...

Someone needs to pick up the ball and TEACH not preach methods of remediation by disallowing the citizens things. Prohibition of any form doesn't stop it. Sort of like the local big city outlawing assault weapons. How many do ya think got rid of them? Are they going house to house to search for our weaponry? (while the teenagers play shoot em up on gory games as they search?)

And by all means lets keep that free speech in place so those sites like Babasgirl found keep egging the kids on.

On another note, no gun involved...local teen girl poisons a teacher with a common chemistry class chemical. The girl could have done alot more damage had she chosen to. Oh lets just ban chemistry class. EVERYthing around us can be used as a weapon. Alot of it to a mass scale.

I might agree to the saving of one life by banning weapons.. but how many MORE will die if they ARE banned............. Is that worth it? 1 or 10 or 100 for thousands is a fair exchange?

Now if we get rid of porn, rape stops, get rid of cars, no more drunk driving, Hmmm what else can we ban to prevent crime?

stangster

Guns have been around since the conception of America. Just like the other 9 Bill of Rights. Take away one...take away all.

Fuck this left wing, socialistic passive view.

So you want ONLY the criminals to have the guns? That's stupid to me....

I've been carjacked before. He didn't get my car but he sure as hell tried. Even shot at the ground nearly hitting me to prove he meant business.

Why the fuck would you want only the fuckin crimnals to have the guns?

The tragedy is women who believe it's their fucking right to be able to kill their own babies. Fuck abortion. That kills way more lives than gun related crime by far. A life is a life.

Go lobby your "Even if that saves ONE life it's worth it." bullshit over to your local abortion clinic instead.

Techie Media

Dyanna, I in no way am in favor of guns, how ever I am a realist.

When you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns.

Idont know what the answer is,but outlawing guns totally will never work..

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Sloane

I agree with Dyanna..you guys have a serious gun problem in the US. Many years ago we had a very brutal masacre here in Aus..and the government said fuck it, everyone has 6 months to hand in all their auto/semi automatic weapons..the government obviously compensated gun owners for handing them over. It is now very tough to own a gun, and to get a liscense you need to do a psyc test.
Since then there has been zero masacres, and no more school shootings. I know the crims will still get and use guns, but the less out there the better.

Susan

The same problems are slowly creeping into UK schools. Attacks on teachers are common.

Our society now lacks discipline. We are not allowed to smack out kids anymore so the kids get away with murder. Many parents (not all) seem to let their kids run on auto pilot as if they just can't be bothered to guide them through the learning curve.

12clicks

I say outlaw cars! even if it saves one life its worth it!

Dyanna, that statement is EXACTLY RIGHT! when an armed civilian meets an armed criminal one of them will most likely DIE! Put that in a criminal's mind and that's called a deterrent. get it?

It's people like you that just make me wonder.
Up until the 1960's you could legally shoot looters. You know what? they never got shot because they didn't exist! its called deterrence.
Look at the looting problem we have today. Same thing with guns. Outlaw them like D.C. and New York did and watch crime skyrocket. Legalize them like florida did and watch crime fall. (check the fbi statistics before telling me I'm wrong)

Its a real shame that no one understood this kid was going to blow but guess what? That's what you get in a society that spends so much helping people who can't make it in this society instead of letting them wither on the vine. (we now have too many mentally unstable people in our country)

There, is that enough rant?

12clicks

Sloan, AUS doesn't have the same criminal underlcass the US does. Our crime rate will always be higher because we spent 60 years breeding criminals at the public's expense.
So we, the public, will always need to protect ourselves. That said, parents of these children need to spend 20 years in jail for poor parenting.


[This message has been edited by 12clicks (edited 03-06-2001).]

12clicks

.

[This message has been edited by 12clicks (edited 03-06-2001).]

kemp

Simply saying that common American citens will not know what to do if they do have a gun troubles me.

EVERY, and I mean EVERY person that I know that supports the NRA and the gun lobbying efforts has undergone considerable training on how and when to use a hand gun. In fact in this state, with the proper training you can get a license to carry a concealed weapon.

I can tell you for a fact that my DAD found this training to be EXTEMELY BENEFICIAL when a man ARMED with a giant knife broke into his house, with my little sister sleeping in the back. As soon as the criminal saw that he had to either run or be shot at point blank range in the chest he chose the smart thing, and ran as fast as his little ass could take him.

Was the man a burglar coming to rob my dad of all his computer equipment? Was he a rapist coming for my sister? We may never know, but I can tell you for a FACT that a gun played a part in possibly SAVING THE LIVES of my father and sister.

Now I ask you, how can you say an outright ban would benefit society? Violent criminals will continue to be violent criminals regardless of a ban on guns.

That said, I do own a gun, but I keep it locked in a 6', 800lb. gun safe and I own no shells whatsoever.

Dyanna

I give up . . .

And Lightning, I just meant handguns, not all guns. I *DO* understand that it's not the solution and that crimes wil still be committed. Don'thave a gun? Use a knife . . but chances are you might survive that.

12 clicks - I have a choice to get in a car or not. There's a difference.

And statistics really are meaningless because both sides can manipulate them to show an advantage. I'm really sorry you think I'm such a bad person - the fact is what we're doing IS NOT working. And actually I agree with more of what you say than you might think, but the reality is I see no evidence of society changing for the better.

Dyanna

kemp,

Maybe because this issue is personal to me is why I can say an outright ban on handguns would benefit society. And maybe it's because I don't care what you guys say, you can't convince me that banning handguns wouldn't save the lives of more CHILDREN.

If carryng a gun makes someone feel safer, fine. If owning guns is really a deterrent, fine. If that makes society a safer place, fine.

All I can do is speak from my own encounter, and also the experience of an in-law who has been running undercover DEA operations in Texas for 25 years. He's wholeheartedly for a ban on handguns - says that when a crime is taking place the fewer guns involved, the better. He says unless you are trained, and most people aren't, pulling a gun on a criminal who has a gun does nothing than pretty much guarantees that someone will get shot. Could be the criminal, could be the victim, and sometimes it's an innocent bystander.

[This message has been edited by Dyanna (edited 03-06-2001).]

Gemini

So punish all for the few. Not the way to do it either.

12clicks hit a point too. They passed a law in this state quite a few years back. The big mental hospital that housed an awful lot of unbalanced people opened their doors and shoved out between 50-75% of their populaation in to the streets. There was no program to adopt them in to society, no means for them to live and not even a ride to get away from the darn place. Repubs, ya gotta love em for sheer brain power. Yes it was a totally repub backed idea.
The founders of democracy meant we were all one big family, looking after one another. Why not spend the 80 billion, oh just half that for Bushies lil toy missile unworkable technology system to get these people looked after.
In that, more docs on the schools to root out this potential problem. More teachers to help teach them better manners. That sort of thing. And yes more housing to hold the ones that shouldn't be running loose in the streets.
But nope, we;ll get the system Dubya wants. It won't hit a d*mned thing if they do shoot at us. And face it. There are something like 5 major wind drifts in this country. 1 missile hits the 'head' of each drift and 90% of this country is dead. Make love not war. And now the Chinese are spending more as well. Its the I gotta club, no *I* gotta knife, so Someone gets the gun. Heck even the leaders can't behave themselves.
Going to be an awful lot of criminals in this country if they ban hand guns. Send cigs if they get me alive! lol

12clicks

please explain why this issue is "personal to you" but not me. Also, children dying in cars had no choice either so please convince me that banning cars WON'T save children.


what is your encounter?

Quote:

and also the experience of an in-law who has been running undercover DEA operations in Texas for 25 years. He's wholeheartedly for a ban on handguns - says that when a crime is taking place the fewer guns involved, the better. He says unless you are trained, and most people aren't, pulling a gun on a criminal who has a gun does nothing than pretty much guarantees that someone will get shot. Could be the criminal, could be the victim, and sometimes it's an innocent bystander. [This message has been edited by Dyanna (edited 03-06-2001).]

is your inlaw going to turn in HIS gun as well? if not his point is bullshit.

Also, please have him explain how I'm better off without a gun when a criminal has one?

The myth that an "officer of the law" is somehow more stable with his gun than any other adult is bull.

Moose

Hey Kemp man hows it going!
Dont you live in a place that you can pack heat in a holster on your hip?


Dyanna you dont like statistics but here is one for you,
"American women use handguns 416 times a day in defense against rapists,
which is a dozen times more often than rapists use a gun"

what would happen if these "american women" didnt have guns?

Killerelf

OK after reading this it is time to spill the beans. For my Full time job I work in a state owned Correctional Facility. I work with criminals every day. I know how they work. It is my job to know. Currently at this point we have a very high return rate. And most of these people are felons. Felons are not allowed to have guns EVER. So When someone comes back for armed robbery or shooting someone I understand how laws work. THEY DO NOT. It is that simple. And yes I own guns. If they outlaw them will I get rid of them? No. It is my right to have them. The problem we have is all the people running around telling you what to do. Don't park here. Don't do this don't do that blah blah blah. Rules were made to be broken. That was the big saying in school. Stop worring about everybody else. The best thing we can do is start rasing our children right again. Teach them to stand up for themselves. And No don't tell them to shoot people.

I see alot of people that are locked up for punishing their children. I remember an inmate that told me when his got in trouble he said "you punish me I call the cops" Well he is in jail now. Is that how we want things to work? Beating the kid to a bloody pulp is one thing but they need spankings. They Worked for me.

I am free. I do as I please. As long as it does not hurt anyone. Teach your children to be kind to others and to stand up for themselves when being picked on. The only reason they get picked on is because they are easy targets. Then when it does not stop they turn to the violence they know. Teach other forms.

Well I have rambled too much. But I want to continue. Anyone have any other situational questions I can probaly give an example why to not make a Law about it.

Laws Suck!! They Don't work. Period

Tam

We have an economy where people think that they have to have "things"... if we give our children all these "things" then they will love us and go to their rooms and sit on their little computers and listen to their little music and not bother us. Just be quiet, that's all we want these days because we are so mixed up in thinking that the "things" we give them will make up for the lack of other things we SHOULD be giving them.

As teachers we give them "things" , and expect them to learn how to operate these "things" all on their own. Computers, guns, cars, music, tv.... you name it, we have given them "things"!!!!! They get together and being the CHILDREN that they are, with no guidance in teaching them the proper way to use these "things" , they then get together with a bunch of their friends and they teach each other how to use these "things" and with each child, they come up with a new and much more inventive way of playing with these "things".... each lesson bigger than the last and in most cases much more dangerous.

"Look, I just shot up that tree with my new "thing" my dad just bought me"

"Well look what I can do, I can shoot up that house with this new "thing" my dad bought ME"

Oh but wait, I am so much better than you, why I can kill a person with the "thing" that my dad bought me"

"Oh yeah?? Well with the new "thing my dad" (and you may subsititute Mom in here in place of dad, it's not a sexist thing) "why, I can learn to make a bomb and blow up a whole building of people and kill them all!! Oh yes my "thing" is far better than yours"

And who do we point fingers at? Why everyone else but ourselves..... we point at the friends they hang out with, we point at the music we allow them to listen to, we point at the Internet they have access to on the computer we buy them to keep them quiet!! It seemed like a nice idea at the time.... shit people we even point our fingers at their churches and schools........ it has to be the schools fault because they ALLOWED these kids to be picked on.

Good GOD!!!! Spend some time with your kids.... "things" mean shit unless WE as their parents TEACH them to use these "things" properly. At what point do we take responsibility for our own demons and the demons we are making our kids out to be? It's a copout in my opinion.

In MY family, we do without "things" so one of us can be at home with these kids 24/7. we teach them the proper usage of the "things" we buy them. By the age of 8 all of my kids have and will shoot a gun...... yeah go ahead, slap me in the face for that one... we no longer own a gun, but I fully ntend to buy one and it gets locked up and hidden.... HOWEVER, when we did own one, my oldest 2 children were taken out and taught to shoot that gun, they felt the power in their hands and seen the destruction first hand that they can do to "THINGS" so they don't need to wonder what they will do to people, they know!!

We teach our kids about dangers of unprotected sex...... "Oh MY, you horrible person, you teach your kids about guns and sex? You horrible horrible parent" I have had my kids evaluated by Guidance Counselors, simply because I was told I was not right for teaching my kids these things..... so I had them evaluated.... and guess what? I was told I had the most rounded and well adjusted kids they had ever seen.... and this coming to a parent that was abused all her life.... HA!!!!!!

My kids are my whole world and the reason I breathe each and everyday, and if I send them out into the world with the knowledge that for every action there is a reaction, and they go thru life knowing right from wrong then they are better apt to deal with peoples criticism..... and they don't feel the need to kill someone because they SAY bad things to them.

I know I went into long winded mode here.. but I am a very strong believer in the fact that it is mine and my husband's job to turn out well rounded citizens and not for them to learn these things from their friends who have not been taught these things. I am not even saying I am the best parent in the world, I know I am not... but I do know that I can go to bed at night and sleep well kowing I am doing the absolute best job I can do with my kids and also that I know I am going to wake up the next day and be ok, and not worry one of them are going to kill me in my sleep. They know I am here for them... and not to BUY them things just to keep them quiet!!!!

I get so damn tired of all the copouts and pointing fingers.... just know everytime you point ONE finger.... FOUR more are pointing back at you. I have said enough!!

Tam

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Dyanna

12clicks

I don't know if you've read everything I've posted on this thread. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you did read it all, therefore I guess you've had a gun at your temple and watched while a robber stuck that same gun in your husbands's mouth. I posted that above. So it's personal.

About the cars . . . please. You're smarter than to use that argument. There is a difference between an accident and a shooting.

And again . . . read the rest of what I said my in-law told me. If a person is TRAINED . . .

So you think the average Joe that goes and buys a gun is just as safe with a gun as a law enforcment officer? Even strict oppnents of gun controls won't side with you on that.

To answer how you're better off without one . . . why don't you tell me why you think you're better off with one. Unless you are attacked in your home, you probably won't have time to get your gun out.

Dyanna

killerelf

I never said that banning handguns would do anything other than maybe saving a few lives . . . it's these guys that have brought all the other stuff in.

I just don't buy the argument that it's a bad thing to outlaw them.

Moose

Dyanna
you call the thousands of innocent people who die at the hands of drunk drivers and accident?
pleez give it up already

Gemini

Dyanna, this is from the hubby, Go READ the statistics of how many lives guns save each and every day in this country and even in the hands of untrained people. Then sit in a corner and think about it on a time out. Compare that to the amount that die by a gun, not the criminals that die that way, the innocents. Do some simple math. Now take away the guns and push the numbers of robbed by a gun toting crook to the column of DEAD. I have edited out the detrimental language he said in English and can't spell the Indian words meant the same way.

I'm dropping out of these threads. No one will convince me that I'd have not died the night that gun got shoved in my face. And the cops were 20 mins coming to collect their prewrapped package. Oh but two cruisers drove by in a hurry to after the fact reports! Take the simple way out. Don't fault the person motivating the tool. Fault the tool. Sheesh

Dyanna

uh, yes moose.

The minute people go get drunk, then get in their car, then point it at someone and run them down - THEN I'll change my tune on the difference between a car and a gun.

Babagirls

Guns shouldn't be outlawed ALL TOGETHER!! HOWEVER, I do belive that if you have children from ages 0->18 yrs old, I think that it should be illegal to have the gun IN THE HOUSE!!!

And before people jump on me like white on rice about that, dont even try to feed me that "Have guns in a cabnit" shit!! Glass can be broke, keys can and HAVE been found to get the guns out.

What do you think about 'dem apples???

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A wise man once said.."Wherever you go, there you are!"

12clicks

why ook at it any other way? Then it wouldn't fit your senario.

Warphead

Hey guys, I have several guns myself and enjoy blasting the hell out of something but our ulta-violent behavior isn't going to slow down unless we make it more difficult to kill each other.

I'd be all for the NRA and stuff except they hate waiting periods and background checks. Why do the people who like guns (legitimately - not for killin' wives and strangers) object so much to safety measures?

The guys that hate these laws are the ones that make it easy for the criminals and murderers. A gun collector or a sport shooter isn't hurt a bit by a bg check or 10 days. A guy who goes to gun shows and picks up a truckload to sell to the gangbangers back home are. Why are so many of us on their side?

Dyanna

Gemini - those statistics you are "quoting" don't even exist. It's impossible to say how many lives are saved by gun-owners as you don't know the outcome if the person had no gun. So, if they do exist they are statistically irrelevant - I think

I suppose you could find the percentage of injuries/deaths when both the criminal and the victim had a gun, and compare it to when just the criminal had a gun. I'd actually like to see those.

But really this whole thread has gotten way off from what I ever said.

Moose

Ok i have come to the conclusion that Dyanna has no clue what she is talking about.


What about my post earlier? no reply? c'mon! let me have it!

Dyanna

well 12 clicks, enlighten me as to why you think both are purposeful acts

sKiTz

I hate to agree with 12Clicks, but....

Criminals are MUCH MUCH more afraid of citizens with guns, than police with guns.

Anyone who thinks outlawing guns is going to keep them out of people's hands is dreaming.

Here in Florida, anyone without a felony record can carry a concealed gun, with a short training course, a background check and a 24 hour waiting period when you buy it.

Guess what.... never been a school shooting here in Florida, that I can remember.

Not too many armed robberies, not too many car jackings....

Last car jacking that I remember hearing about, was right in my subdivision... the would-be carjacker paid with his life.


And that's the way it should be.

Corpsie

I'm pretty sure that a 800pound steel gun safe with a combination lock (like a bank vault) isn't going to be opened by some kid.

Anyone who thinks a cabinet is going to stop someone needs to be slapped back into reality.

I think those apples fell off the tree of ignorance.

Dyanna

moose, I'd say men should stop raping women.

Moose

Dyanna
yes that would be nice, but as the same as banning guns and thinking inoccent lives are sparred
IT WONT HAPPEN.

A couple years ago here in SanDiego some asshole heroin addic sat in his pickup and shot up, started his truck and whent down the road and nodded off (this is what heroin does) and mowed down one of my nieghbors kids walking home from school. If we follow your philosophy, we take away the truck,the drugs..But wait! it was drugs that caused the accident,Drugs are illegal! Drugs are banned! how on earth did this asshole get heroin! Point im making is banning anything does NO GOOD WHATSOEVER.Where there is a will there is a way.

Corpsie

*applauds Moose*

JT

To aprilkorova,

I to am from Eugene/Springfield and I was
there when Kip Kinkle took his rage out on
his classmates in Springfield. I understand
how you feel about the San Diego school.
I believe that if parents started taking on the responsibility of being good parents and
role-models this kind of thing would happen a lot less.

JT

lynch1000s

I hope you all realize that there is no right or wrong answer to any of these questions.

Yes, banning guns will save a few lives, but it will probably be the cause of more murders.

Yes, teaching kids how to use guns instead of their friends will cause less confusion, but more interest.

The point is just to find the middle ground. As far as I'm concerned, sorry if I seem unsensitive, but the fact that there has been one school shooting in the past year and a half, the last one was here in GA (that I know of), is a lot better than you might want to believe.

There is always going to be evil in this world, and trying to eliminate it may make things a little better, but on the other hand it could make things a lot worse at the same time.

rhizome

Anything that makes life more difficult for criminals is not a good thing. If Bill Gates or 12clicks feel it is their right by virtue of birth or the law of the land or any other mechanism to hoard shitloads of money and influence the ignorant, then they should be prepared to stand naked in front of a criminal. By legalizing guns for priviledged citizens and not allowing criminals to carry arms only serves to prevent this naked encounter from happening. It's a total a cop out - a way for the elite to hide behind behind their undeserved prestige. If you're going to make guns legal, make them legal for all and also make sure you drop off some of that army machinery into the inner cities - you gotta play fair. If you're going to criminalize gun carriers, then criminalize them all including the police, the army, and 12clicks' secret security.

Dyanna

ok moose, so why have laws at all?

lynch - good point I was about to post the same thing. There is no right or wrong answer to any of this - at least not yet. The point is there have been studies of both sides and nothing has been actualy proven. For every study that shows more gun laws equals less crime, there is one that shows the opposite.

So when you said that even a few lives might be saved, but then went on to say that there will probably be more murders - that's only an opinion, too. Johns Hopkins has a "division" or institute or whatever that studied the issue and reached the conclusion that I believe. Whether it's right or not we'll probably never know

sixfm

I think Tam's post said it all. Tam, you sound a lot like my mother. The way I was raised as a child by my parents was the most crucial learning I have had. My friends, school, college, none of that cut it. I guarantee that if it wasn't for my parents I would have blown half of my school away, but they were there to help me through my troubled time as a youth, as someone who was picked on at school, someone who just didn't know how to deal with it. And now, thanks to their guidance, understanding, and love, I have made a life for myself, purchased a new home that I am proud of, and best of all I feel good about myself. The best part is that I didn't have to blow anyone away to do that.

ace0r

There are so many stupid ass parents out there these days, just leaving guns around, or not taking the proper measures to secure them. My dad was big on guns, atleast 25 rifles/shotguns/handgune in his gun locker.. BUT he kept them safe and locked away.. I was always curious, always trying to get into his gun locker, as most kids would. But when you're looking at 2 thick padlocks on a big fucking steel cabinet, you know deep down inside you're never going to get into that thing. Thats how it was for me, i always tried, just to show my friends.. yea it was dumb but hey kids do dumb things.

Instead of keeping a gun in the drawer, get a safe. People are talking about "the gun was locked up" ill bet a grand that it was one of those worthless flimsy k-mart peice of shit gunlocker that uses a lock you wouldnt even trust to use on your luggage at an airport. A lot of people blame guns for these school shootings. I blame parents.

columbine kids and the rest of these school shooters.. theyre pussies. who cares if someone makes fun of you? roll with the punches.. dont shoot the school up. It's sad that people get picked on, but life goes on. I got picked on in highschool being the "indian kid going to an all white school" i had my fair share of confrontations.. i learned to deal with it and followed the saying 'what goes around comes around' as corny as it sounds..its true. One of the kids that always used to think he was a badass and started shit with me is now one of the guys giving my lexus free carwashes for life at the moterwerx dealership.. and i dont even have to tip the fucker so yea what goes around comes around and kids need to realise that these days. Fuck the guns just hit your books and come out on top in the long run.

One of the fondest memories growing up was going to the range and shooting with my dad. But no mater how curious i was, no matter how badly i wanted to show my friends his stash of guns, I wasn't able to get into them without. If you can afford to have kids and afford to get guns, you can afford to get a decent safe or gun locker to keep them in.

[This message has been edited by ace0r (edited 03-06-2001).]

Moose

No... laws are ok if the right people are held responsible for the wrongdoing

ok...change of tune ;-)

If i supply a teen with booze and then this kid goes driving and kills people...i am held responsible

If my Rotts go and eat someone..i am held responsible

Why is it different with parents and children? Parents these days do not do SHIT in thier kids lives,they make excuses for thier kids when they fuck up (a majority of them),they throw them in front of the TV or computer while they are rapped up in themselves.These parents or ANYONE who allows a kid access to a gun should be held responsible.not the guns

To fix this problem it needs to start at home, not with laws or government intervention.