Affiliates need to accept that programs can and will do what they want. If they have traffic leaks, they clearly don't really care about you. If you have preconceptions about how "revshare should work" because in the past programs you have worked with operated this way, it's not relevant today. The only thing you can do about it is choose to send them traffic or not. The nice thing about that is that there are plenty (too many?) programs to choose from, and hell, starting your own paysite/program is extremely easy and affordable.

What Relentless is trying to say is that the only control you have is to send traffic or not to send traffic. Starting a thread on GFY isn't going to do anything but suck everyone's productivity. Tomorrow ReallyUseful is still going to be running his promo popup and his xsales. You can take it or leave it.

Anecdote: I recently tried a dating sponsor on a PPS basis. Like all dating sponsors, I signed up for a free account to analyse their mailing schedule and test their inboxing. These guys were pushing all sorts of offers to the free member, a lot of which weren't for the premium upsell. I immediately contacted my rep, and he offered me a fair PPL rate to accommodate the leaks. EPC was better but still not as good as another program I was split testing, so I moved on. Their business model is paying affiliates for their traffic and monetizing it however they can. Mine is squeezing every last cent out of my EPC. No harm, no foul.

No it doesn't... it just kills any reason to discuss them or put any value in them. If you want to argue about the imaginary... take a philosophy course or join a religious organization. If you want to discuss business, put your could haves away and focus on your ACTUAL values.

^^^^ PRINT IT - Tape It OVER your Monitor - Do Nothing Else Until You Comprehend It Fully ^^^^

i am happy that there are still people who are sharing what they dont like, and hope it will stay like it is ... :thumbsup

I dont like low $/click and I am happy to share that with you :thumbsup

Same here.

Anyway I think the guy is either trolling or he has some minor mental illness like autism or OCD.

This isn't normal and he did the same thing in your test join topic. When you reply to him you're just playing into his hands.

Fair point and pragmatic but even so affiliates have a right to share the information with other affiliates regardless of whether a sponsor and their shills like this. That's what these forums used to be about and if it gets too far away from that then it might be that the remaining affiliates in the business will have to leave to another forum instead.

Making double the amount of posts in the topic as the #2 poster and making 8x the posts as the topic starter all talking about "$/click" is pretty much OCD-like (or at least obnoxious) behavior.

Page after page and you are still lost in the dark.
What is your $/click with this sponsor or any other?
What site do you own?

//crickets//

You should have stopped and left it at that. It would have been the first bright thing you have said.

You have no idea how much I write in a year. None. Clients hire me for text because of the quality of my writing and the speed with which I can provide marketable text. The short posts in this thread aren't even a tiny fraction of my output. I have picked up 1 new client during this thread and I am in discussions with another that will likely lead to profitable arrangements as well. :pimp

This message is hidden because Relentless is on your ignore list.

This message is visible because signupdamnit is lying :1orglaugh

Everyone! SELL! SELL! SELL! Get that money from the man even if the man is boning you a little. It's okay. Its in the maths. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Relentless,
did you know that 2.09% of your 4164 gfy posts were made in this thread..
damn impressive, bro ...

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh Gotta keep that seal money flowin!

If you only knew the thousands of times I refrained from posting ;)

Good to see you Shemp, and welcome to page 7.

...Also, don't forget about the Pyramids and Carbon dating..
The Koch thing had me LOL!! So true.

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I don't think its a compliment, bro. :thumbsup

Why would anyone put any stock in what you think? :1orglaugh

I do accept that.

I also accept that us affiliates have a right to talk to each other in a forum called, "Fucking Around and PROGRAM DISCUSSION"

Whenever one of us cries foul or points out where a program owner is shaving the thread becomes heated and long. Lots of opposition to us just posting the info and sharing.

It is threatening to some and those people try to make us feel inferior via trolling, name calling, asking about our incomes or making fun of it etc...

To a degree it is harassment.

JT's cock is calling. You haven't sucked it this morning. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

It's not what I think. It is obvious what others think. You support shady people, You work for shady people. You de-rail threads when you do not like the subject matter. It's not what I think. That is very true.

I think what happens is this: those on the EPC side don't want to see other affiliates potentially lose cash because they are going on emotion and not facts. The smart, the super-rich - they don't base their business decisions on what they feel is fair or unfair, they don't take decisions that go against *them* personally (and by that I mean they don't feel wronged, that it's 'unfair' of the other person to want to maximise their income).

Then on the other side you have those who feel that it's fucking over the affiliate - I can see *why* people are up in arms, but that's because they are looking at it personally.. YOU are fucking me over YOU are stealing YOU are taking money out of my pocket - it's natural to want to 'fight' that, even though once you take all the emotion out of it, it really does come down to sending your traffic to those who pay you the most for your click.

Now, JT hasn't just plucked a decision out of the air - he has looked at the figures, weighed up what he would lose if every affiliate stops sending every click tomorrow, and sees that business-wise, this option pays most. It's no different to any other biz decision for an affiliate: do I get the most EPC from RUC? How much do I get on those EPC in terms of ROI?

What seems like other factors are totally irrelevant, but saying that, it's not a mindset to easily escape, so it's natural there's high feelings in this thread. As an example of what most people *think should happen, but the maths tells us something totally different, have a look at the video below. I hope people do watch it, because it's a great step in understanding, and realising, the potential that relying on maths rather than what you have been conditioned to think, gives you:



Don't just skip over it people, watch it :thumbsup

Kawaii,

Show me a post where I said send traffic to a specific sponsor?
In fact I told you not to send traffic to any sponsor if it would earn you less than if you sent it somewhere else.

Think about that.

No... Really. Take a breath and actually think about that.

It's so simple and it still eludes you?

By the way, do you own a website?

I feel exactly the same way. Its why I do not support programs like reallyuseful. They are not alone. There are many like them. They have many supporters who need them. I do not.

It is strange how discussing a program like this really upsets some people. Its due to threads like this that I have been made aware of many programs over the years who are better left alone or to those who would use them.

I own more than 100 sites.

Its not about earning, alone. Its about our traffic. Our traffic represents buyers and people who are passionate about niches we are passionate about. We care about our traffic and have heard from them directly and via consumer boards they do not have the same appreciation that you and damian have for some of the activities of websites you defend.

We are about our traffic, maintaining and developing it. Not raping it for every nickle we can because we can.

I have customers going back to 2007. Think about that.

It's not that - it's the illusion that all affiliates are better off not touching them. That means affiliates potentially lose out, and earn less money - which is the opposite of what the OP, and those on the non-EPC side of the fence are for, right?

Again, it's that perception thing, getting in the way of the best decision.

Put it this way, there are 2 sites, A & B.

A is JT's faketaxi.com, with it's leaky console
B is joe bloggs taxiporn.com with no consoles, no email box, no cross-sells, no members area upsells

A earns you .03 per click
B earns you .01 per click

You have 50,000 unique clicks per day to send. Where will you, the affiliate, making the best biz decision you can, send those clicks? We all know the answer, which is why it's always about the net EPC, and not tainted by the *perception* that sponsor A is robbing you, because part of their biz model is offering non-credited multi-pass joins.

Sure, you can base decisions on that, it's everyone's absolute right to do so, but others who are more $ inclined might not realise that even with all this 'stealing' going on, he will earn more money for him, his family, his re-investment into business, and so on.

Hence the plentiful replies in this thread, rather than just leaving 1 side of the equation as 'fact' :)

@Jel
Good post, great video.



Keep in mind how he 'feels' about the result doesn't help him. In fact it hurts him.

It hurt me for years :thumbsup

Affiliates don't have much more then our traffic so we need to be able to set some norms. If this is out of the norm, it gets discussed.

Agreeing with you btw.

The thing is this, Jel.

1. Not everyone is going to run their business how you feel it should be run. It's not your business. Someone may have a different model than you and what you say may not strictly be applicable. You may have no experience with their model or their sites so who are you to say? I've explained this in more detail in the other thread where there was 12+ pages of bullshit about this and over a 100 posts from "Relentless". If someone (other than Relentless who I have on ignore) wants to start a proper topic about I'd be happy to explain my views on why it isn't so clear cut once again.

2. Even if the intent is good the reasonable thing to do is state your view and then move on. NOT hijack the OP which wasn't about $ per click and write 1-2 pages (near 100 replies) saying the same thing over and over again. That's just rude and most people would probably call it being an asshole.

I agree 100%, and obviously that goes for everyone and everyone. What would be lax, is to not point out both sides - when I first started out in this biz, I was freely given a ton of good advice (alas, I never took a lot of it in/on), the caveat being that one day I should share any knwledge *I* have.

As for the rest of your post, again, that goes both ways, and ultimately, check your sig :thumbsup

Here is the disconnect.

I care about my traffic VERY much. In fact that is the reason I got into review sites and websitesecure.org in the first place. They are real ways for consumers to find good sites and have a great time (which also means they will come back again). I would never advocate sending traffic to a site that does anything illegal OR to any site that negatively affects your bookmarkers. I have said that twenty times or more in this thread.

Now... We are not talking about any of that. The truth is From A Customer point of view, JTs sites are fantastic. That's a fact. The content is among the most popular in the world, they update constantly and the customers are treated like kings. I know this for a fact because I have test joined the sites, spoken with my own traffic after they have joined, etc... Nobody disputes the customers are treated great. Nobody alleges anything illegal. I know (and have certified the sites do not overcharge or have any hidden charges, they don't spam users, the user experience is 100% clean).

What we are talking about is ONLY an issue on the B2B side regarding affiliate payouts. I don't certify anything to do with affiliate payouts. I don't test or check any part of affiliate programs. Why? Because your own stats already do that for you better than anything else ever could. If a site is 100% legal AND the traffic is treated well, the only remaining stat that matters is $/click. If they aren't legal or harm the traffic in some way, that is a very big deal (because it damages your long term $/click).

1 Card banging = illegal
2 Spamming or hidden charges etc = hurts traffic and long term $/click

3 Shaving, leaks, payout fees, payment thresholds, lack of updates, bad promo materials, etc etc etc = b2b affiliate problems all included in your $/click stat.


If 1 or 2 are true, don't send a single click ever.
If 1 and 2 are not happening only 3 matters.

When it comes to 3, someone pays you the most... Send them your traffic.
How you feel about this is nonsense. The math matters.

Sorry, relentless...you cannot see the forest for the trees.

There is 4. Programs who do not engage in your 1,2,3.

I like JT. But as far as his site's kicking ass...I have no proof of that at all.

Matter of fact...all the traffic I have sent to him comes off of my free sites. Nothing tricky, nothing crazy, no blindlinks, etc.
Just people who are interested and clicked to his sites tours (which is where the sale SHOULD be made)

So far I am at 1:194,921 and have made a grand total of $17.82

Not exactly "fantastic" or "most popular in the world". :(

The sites are okay for generic porn sites. Seem to be shot "nice". From what I can tell on the trailers on the tour...there isn't much to the scenes that stand out or are very unique or strike me as really hot sex (which is really the bottom line).

I'm not cutting at JT. I have no reason to.

Just saying that his program's sites look like a thousand other sites I've seen in my decades promoting.

Everything is "nice" and clean and shot "pretty" and...kind of like eating at Red Lobster for seafood. It's always gonna be "good", but never really special.

How about some of the rest of y'all? Anybody else left in this industry that actually uses ad tools and honestly sends surfers to a sites tour? Or does everybody just do "mysterious" "tricks" to get sales?

I'd be curious to know if any honest webmasters are making sales on JT's program. :)

As I said....my traffic is as good as gold. People who are actually clicking the links to see the tour, and then NOT buying. :(

You talk any more of that common sense nonsense here and I am going to ask to get you banned for life. :winkwink:

Let's test your assertion.

1 legal or illegal
Every single website and aff program is either doing things legally or illegally.

2 B2C User Experience
Every single website and aff program either treats consumers fairly or unfairly

3 B2B Experience
Any site with an Aff Program pays webmasters an actual net amount per click

Do you disagree with the above? It seems very clear that every program does engage in my 1,2 and 3.

If 1 = illegal: never send a click and/or report them to authorities
If 2 = unfairly: never send a click and protect your traffic / revenue streams

3 is the one people fail to grasp. It comes down only to $/click.
Feelings cost you money and do nothing to protect your traffic with #3
The way a site treats B2B and B2C may be very different.


1,2 and 3... It is math.

Useful B2B information regarding #3 from my posts.

Robbie,

Three simple questions:

Is that the highest EPC for your traffic of all sponsors you work with?

If it is/was the highest EPC would you send more traffic to it?

Would how you 'feel' override making the most $/click you can get?

Thanks for replying.

I'd say something nice about the fact that homegrown is a good b2c nicely performing $/click legal sponsor in the amateur niche... But then dumbasses would try to claim I'm a shill because you also have sites that are websitesecure.org certified. :2 cents:

You don't seem to be retarded so I know you comprehend that most here understand what you are saying about $ per click. So why do you keep acting like you're explaining it to 5 year olds?

The one that seems to be confused is you. You just cannot get it through your head that some people have zero interest in sending traffic to a shady piece of shit motherfucker and that it's OK to feel that way.

I know you keep throwing up stupid fucking examples to prove your point, but all it proves is that you live up to your username.

You want us to compare $1,000 per click from a shady company to a tenth of a penny from one that isn't run by thieving fucks to emphasize your point.

Well what about $0.25 per click from a legit company and $0.26 from the assholes? Or how about $0.25 from the legit company and the same from the shady fucks? I can tell you that in all honesty I would choose the company I perceive as above board in both situations for a multitude of reasons. I'll give you a few.

1) I don't trust shady motherfuckers to not change the rules and get more shady after I've put in a lot of work to make them money.

2) I don't trust shady motherfuckers to not decide that fucking over their customers one day is the best move. You can believe if a shady motherfucker is legit to customers it's only because they think that it helps their bottom line. They've already proven they'll be shady when it benefits them so if fucking the customer suddenly looks better in their business model then why the fuck not?

3) I would much rather support someone doing things right, even if it has some impact on my bottom line. Contrary to your idiotic beliefs there are a lot of people that feel this way, even (gasp) successful ones.

4) Because fuck you, that's why. It's really none of your God damned business and constantly sucking the cock of someone being shady when they get called out on it makes you look like... well, it makes you look like a cocksucker.

:2 cents:

some revshare programs offer 60/40. Anyone who doesn't is a thief. Or smth like that.