Mutt posed a good point. Is there an affordable solution to the decline ip paysite sales? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

RycEric · 10-02-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

You'd have thought one of the many content removal companies would have done a case study or white paper to prove that theory by now. I wonder why no one has?

x was having problem with declining sales so paid y 1500 bucks a month
y sent out take down notices and stuff
x saw an increase in revenue of 1500 + z before

Last I checked, I didn't report to you Damian. You know ZERO about our scope. So hate on...

jimmycooper · 10-02-2011, 02:41 PM

It really has nothing to do with the traffic in and of itself, it has to do with the convergence of two rapidly maturing markets and the fact that the evolution of one of those markets, or submarket (adult) is determined largely by the evolution of the larger, broader, all encompassing market itself. IE, the interweb.

Regardless, the Content vs. Traffic debate needs to be put to bed forever because neither account for the true X-factor - User Experience.

Marketing, particularly lifestyle marketing, can be effectively utilized to alter the consumer's perception of their experience, but only to an extent because the user will ultimately develop his or her own opinion of the experience.

What's troubling is that 'interactivity', in the parlance of GFY, is automatically assumed to be defined as 'interaction between model and user'. Not only is that wrong, it serves as another example of how everyone is trying to catch the next big thing without ever understanding the elemental reasons of why that thing has shown to be successful in the first place. The correct definition of Interaction, in it's purest essence when applied to adult paysites, is a user experience in which the user interacts with something other than his schlong. In most circumstances, I'd even go so far as to say that doing a Mad-Lib is more 'interactive' than a generic 'live show. Here, I'll even test the theory?.

That was pretty fun.

Another thing about the Met-Art user generated galleries is that being able to make custom galleries and vote on the galleries of others not only gives MetArt members something to do, but it also creates a sense of community. Not just any type of community,though, but a community that's based almost entirely upon the opinions of one's peers. It gives people a chance to be popular.

Robbie · 10-02-2011, 03:06 PM

Heh-heh....jimmycooper I remember when there were live feeds that did everything you are saying and more. You could "re-write" the whole scene.
I think it was Pornholio that had those? But this was over 10 years ago so it's hard to remember.

Anyway you could pick the girl then the guy from a list of people (or any combination) and then pick what you wanted them to do every step of the way. And they had filmed all the possibilites that you chose. So when the vid played it did exactly what you picked.

It never went much of anywhere though, I don't know if anybody even bothers to do those kinds of feed anymore. It definitely didn't get a lot of interest from the members (and this was on "old school" paysites we had back from the late 90's with nothing but pictures...except for the video feeds)

People like to "interact", but only as far as it goes. When it comes time to be entertained...they want to be able to sit back a that point and BE entertained.

The interaction really comes more from being able to talk to the performer. Especially when it is particular girls.
If you are a fan of Sara Jay for instance...you want to be able to talk shit to her directly.

And you're 1000% right about a "sense of community". You want to have a "family" online. Where everybody feels that they belong and have a common sense of purpose.

L-Pink · 10-02-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideongallery

yup really cheap one

product placement

you could make back every penny your losing in sales

hell you could make money by giving way access.

of course the clueless copyright holders will say that it won't work because MAINSTREAM companies would not want to be associated with porn.

You're a dumb ass.

.

The Porn Nerd · 10-02-2011, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jigga

The adult industry bullshitted with the best of them in the last 15 years. If you look at who's prospering these days, it's rarely the bullshitters with the cookie-cutter sites.

First, I did not say "bullshitting" meant "lying", and I did not say you should do "cookie-cutter sites". In fact, I said the opposite. Make unique interesting tours that DO NOT look like every other site on the Web.

(Plus, Mercedes and BMW have FINE and expensive products but they "bullshit" with the best of them. Listen to their ads! When you actually go in to BUY a Mercedes you find out that only 000.1% actually qualify for that advertised "deal". But guess what? You want a Mercedes, you're there in the showroom, so you.....BUY! Amazing, isn't it?)

TheSquealer: I could quote every single post you made in this thread (and probably others) but I won't waste page space. LOL But I have a pithy little statement for you in a moment.

Paul: No one in the history of Earth makes a sale to every single customer who enters their shop or website. Robbie made excellent points on this. It is, and has always been and will always be, about PERCENTAGES. How MANY customers can you sell to? One hundred people enter a car dealership, 14 buy a car. "Hey, you lost 86 sales! You must suck at marketing!" No man, you just suck at understanding reality.

I know you'll say: "I never said everyone would buy..." but then you turn right around and scoff at a 1:200 conversion rate! Paul, my dear friend: if YOU made 1:200 conversions on ANY of your online sites you would not be posting in ignorance.

Finally (for TheSquealer): The porn business is filled with people who could not get a job doing anything else.

For many, this is their "last chance salon". They don't have the ability to project themselves, psychologically, into the minds of a customer or surfer. They only know what THEY like. So if THEY (the porn webmaster) likes big-titted blondes then that's what they try to sell. But what about the guy who likes redheads? Umm.....

Example to Paul about scientifically tweaking: I designed and re-designed MILF Mia, one of my best-converting sites (now) - seven times in 1 1/2 years. I tried everything I could think of to sell her and the BEST I could do was 1 sale a day. LOL She would get 10k uniques and only get a single sale. But instead of just throwing up my hands and saying "Ah well, that's what she can do, this business must be dying..." I scientifically A-B tested every new design until I discovered exactly what was "wrong" and it wasn't the industry, or tubes, or the surfers, or anything. It was this:

People were whacking it to the Tour.

So I did THIS design:

http://www.milfmia.com/index1.html

Hardly any nudity, tiny thumbs that go, not to GIANT (whackable) pics, but directly to the Join page. Now? 4-5 sales on a typical day, with potential for more growth as traffic increases. Some days she gets 10 sales.

Anyway, I now make $75,000 a year off that Mia site (including rebills) so it was worth it to me to do all that tweaking.

But honestly, why do I even bother trying to explain? LOL I've seen your tours Paul. If you had mass amounts of video I could design a site for you and make you more successful overnight then you've ever been before. But I decided you would be a GIANT know-it-all/clueless fuck PITA (Pain In The Ass) so I have never offered this to you. Your loss (literally).

But we can discuss all this when I see you in Brno. Now how do you suppose Mister Peabody could fly to Europe, fuck gorgeous Czech girls for his own paysites, make a profit and come to Brno if sales were declining?

Ahhh gotta love Paul Markham! :D

TACNet · 10-02-2011, 03:44 PM

Cant find it now but whoever said its all about marketing was absolutely correct.

We have 250 pay sites on tacamateurs and I rarely get to read forums like this as I spend 2 to 3 hours every day marketing.

Granted we are not what we were when we started 10 years ago but the sales are still there if your prepared to work the traffic each and every day.

Plus I see the recession as a boost to our business. Guys arent going out drinking or clubbing these days cos they cant afford it. Much cheaper to sit at home looking at porn

Anyway, just thought Id add my 2 cents.

TheSquealer · 10-02-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Finally (for TheSquealer): The porn business is filled with people who could not get a job doing anything else.

I am happy for your success. too many people approach their business from the standpoint of "i know..." and do not view it as a process of discovery where there is always much to be learned. I recently started a brick and mortar business based on something i know a lot about. It took a few months and some dramatic failures for me to again myself humble myself and start to view it as a process of discovery rather approach it as if I have all the answers. The simple reality check led to some revelations and some simple changes that instantly changed everything in ways I didn't even imagine they could.

Paul knows it all. That's why he is reduced to living off government pensions while sitting on terrabytes of content. He believes content is everything and maybe makes 1-2k a month off it his cumulative efforts of 34 years of shooting content... as he tells everyone they are doing it wrong. So insane its kinda funny.

movieguy · 10-02-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Mutt was saying they couldn't afford $500 a day for a porn start to appear live.

cam models are not pornstars

cam customers don't really want to see pornstars

the most successful cam models don't want to be pornstars

go from there

Robbie · 10-02-2011, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by movieguy

cam models are not pornstars

cam customers don't really want to see pornstars

the most successful cam models don't want to be pornstars

go from there

You're sort of right. But also wrong. The girls on this page make some of the best money in the cam business: http://www.streamate.com/webcam/porn...77&UHNSMTY=303

And I'm talking on a CONSISTENT level. Not those urban myths and one off exceptions where some amateur girl makes $100,000 in a day. I'm talking girls who daily make great money and only put in a couple of hours (yeah I know that a lot of girls work 8 to 9 hours and more...but the porn stars don't have to).

Of course the amateurs have a HUGE audience. But I'm just saying...the pornstar girls make a lot more each.

porno jew · 10-02-2011, 04:13 PM

not a cam expert but been looking at some of the free cam sites and the women who get tipped off the hook seem to be fat, or old or some hot chicks who don't even get naked. looks like personality and talking a lot brings in the tips.

garce · 10-02-2011, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plsureking

how are you not banned out of sheer lack of popularity?

Lack of popularity? How stupid are you? Almost everything Paul posts gets massive views and multiple pages of replies. He consistantly generates pageviews - that is exactly what GFY (and pretty well everyone here) wants.

Paul posts - people reply. Not many people here have that power. Doesn't matter if you like what he says - he gets people to read and respond.

The Porn Nerd · 10-02-2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garce

Lack of popularity? How stupid are you? Almost everything Paul posts gets massive views and multiple pages of replies. He consistantly generates pageviews - that is exactly what GFY (and pretty well everyone here) wants.

Paul posts - people reply. Not many people here have that power. Doesn't matter if you like what he says - he gets people to read and respond.

Excellent points. Paul is great for GFY and debates, and you can actually learn from him.

(Learn what NOT to do but that's also incredibly valuable. You needs examples of success and failure to properly see both ends of the spectrum, and to learn what does and does not work.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I am happy for your success. too many people approach their business from the standpoint of "i know..." and do not view it as a process of discovery where there is always much to be learned. I recently started a brick and mortar business based on something i know a lot about. It took a few months and some dramatic failures for me to again myself humble myself and start to view it as a process of discovery rather approach it as if I have all the answers. The simple reality check led to some revelations and some simple changes that instantly changed everything in ways I didn't even imagine they could.

Paul knows it all. That's why he is reduced to living off government pensions while sitting on terrabytes of content. He believes content is everything and maybe makes 1-2k a month off it his cumulative efforts of 34 years of shooting content... as he tells everyone they are doing it wrong. So insane its kinda funny.

Best of luck on your brick-and-mortar biz! That takes real commitment so I hope it's a huge success for you.

Me? I know the road I took to get here. I know the myriad of mistakes I made (and still make) daily that have all helped me learn and adapt (and not die). I follow successful people's examples and try to not re-invent the wheel, just put a little branding and my own spin on things. Oh, and I try to laugh and have fun while doing it. It's PORN for goodness sake! LOL

But this is why GFY is great, you get so many differant perspectives and shared experiences it can really help relative noobs like me make the right decisons along the way. Especially the way the biz is now, and the environment we are all in economicly, it's more difficult now than ever to "make it" starting from zero like I did. So any and all advice is appreciated, even Paul's. LOL

TheSquealer · 10-02-2011, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Me? I know the road I took to get here. I know the myriad of mistakes I made (and still make) daily that have all helped me learn and adapt (and not die). I follow successful people's examples and try to not re-invent the wheel, just put a little branding and my own spin on things. Oh, and I try to laugh and have fun while doing it. It's PORN for goodness sake! LOL

Thanks. This biz is something i've wanted to do for 10 years but was too busy chasing money doing something I didn't particularly like, instead of following my passion and building a large business doing something I liked.

When i first saw you launch, i wasn't really impressed with the whole "misterpeabody" thing because it wasn't really clear what it was, what you offered, didn't communicate any sort of benefit etc. But after watching you for a while, it's pretty clear you have a great head on your shoulders and I think you are on your way to building a recognizable brand that will do well.

TheSquealer · 10-02-2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew

not a cam expert but been looking at some of the free cam sites and the women who get tipped off the hook seem to be fat, or old or some hot chicks who don't even get naked. looks like personality and talking a lot brings in the tips.

Yes, cams are just as much about personalities and people connecting and bonding as it is about private shows. Average girls can do better than really hot girls when they have a great personality and a loyal user base that continually comes back because they have a great personality. Besides, not everyone likes super hot/fake looking girls. Sometimes a kind smile and personality goes much further with guys than fake tits.

plsureking · 10-02-2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garce

Lack of popularity? How stupid are you?

depends what scale we are talking about. i dont know anything about knitting or anal excretions, like you and your mom

Markham started a huge long thread, but you seem to claim we are all here for his wisdom. every one of Markham's posts have been mocked by several people. i think that clearly shows that no matter how stupid i am, i am above Paul on that scale.

meanwhile, this is a really good thread and i have spent an hour reading it. a great marketing discussion that has nothing to do with the dumbshit ideas Markham wrote in post #1..

epitome · 10-02-2011, 09:02 PM

Paul, tell me the average cart to checkout ratio on mainstream sites.

Hint: its not 97%.

This is based on what other people in this thread have been saying.

Ecommerce is a lot different that brick and mortar. A click of the mouse is so much easier than getting in your car and driving to a store...much more likely to click away when you have nothing invested.

TheSenator · 10-02-2011, 09:28 PM

FTV members area

point

thread closed.

glowlite · 10-02-2011, 09:54 PM

MisterPeabody has a grip on the situation. Online marketing is simply that, online marketing. You either know how to market successfully or you don't. It really doesn't matter what the product is.

It could be shovels, snowshoes, batteries, porn, linens, whatever.

If you know how to,
1) create (pre-sell) a sense of desire
2) create a sense of urgency
3) provide an immediate solution
Then sales WILL happen.

I've only met a few adult marketers.
By-and-large most are simply "order takers".

glowlite · 10-02-2011, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

Paul, tell me the average cart to checkout ratio on mainstream sites.

Hint: its not 97%.

This is based on what other people in this thread have been saying.

Ecommerce is a lot different that brick and mortar. A click of the mouse is so much easier than getting in your car and driving to a store...much more likely to click away when you have nothing invested.

Oddly enough the biggest single cause of cart abandonment is not the lack of having a "secure" (https) cart/checkout page.

Paul Markham · 10-02-2011, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Could be that nothing is "wrong". Could be you had 800 people go to the tour. 700 of them were 15 year old boys just curious what the tour looks like.

Another 50 or so could be some of the millions of people who look for "Free" pirated content and want to see if the tour has an update that they haven't yet downloaded from a pirate site (start reading the forums like porn bb dot org and you'll start to understand that).

So you MIGHT have 50 potential customers. Out of those, some are just window shopping.
In real life I can go to the mall and see thousands of people just walking around looking at stuff. They might come back next week to buy something when they have the money, but for now they are just scoping it out.

Now back 3 years ago...some of those 50 would be "impulse buyers". You know, cock in hand ready to jerk. Well...we don't have those anymore thanks to sites like Pornhub.

So now if you get ONE sale...you know what...you're doing pretty good in this environment.

Paul, you have to start posting in ways that make more sense in the real world.

NOTHING is caused by ONE THING. It's always a combination of factors.
And you are sort of trolling these guys because we all know that porn always sold itself. The only "marketing" was getting the advertising for the site in front of people's eyes.

That has now been taken away by tubes, torrents, and file share sites.

So now people who are "marketing" aren't really marketing porn. They are trying to "market" web cams and dating and pills and toys USING porn (which used to be the golden goose) as the way to get eyes on the product they are pushing.

But my point is...you are making posts that are so one-sided that it makes you look foolish.
You need to stop doing that and take ALL factors into account with your broad statements.

Yes it could be 750 grandmothers going to the tour. Yes it could be 750 Chinese who don't own a card.

Excuses.

We all know since the beginning a bigger % have not bought. That 800 is a fraction of the people who saw the sample. Because the vast majority of people on TGP sites looked at a gallery and never went to the tour.

Yes there are many factors for the decline in online porn. Squealer points out the main one. Bad Businessmen. In the beginning bad businessmen could make a lot of money in online porn. Then they became better, the worst were culled.

But read some of the replies to see the level of businessmen still in the business.

No one has a solution to the decline. A few are trying to imply it's not happening. The others are attacking other points. Not one decent solution to the problems we face. Well not we, you left in the business face.

Idiots telling me I live in the past, while I'm talking about the future. Idiots telling me I'm clueless and offering nothing better. Idiots who think giving the product away to millions so thousands might buy is marketing. Idiots who think the right way to have a trade show is to keep out the real customers, better to give drinks to people who will never do anything for you. Idiots who know that sites like FTV do well with a great member area. Then copy it with shit content. Yes and idiots who find "maybe" excuses for failures. And still do nothing to fix it.

Yes Squealer you're spot on. This industry was and still is full of idiots. Guys who come to see someone they know is a crap shooter, then after finding out they don't even like him, spend the rest of the day with him. A clever guy wouldn't of bothered to meet him.

porno jew · 10-02-2011, 11:31 PM

go take a nap old man.

Paul Markham · 10-02-2011, 11:32 PM

So lets get back to the theme of the thread and stop side tracking it.

Is there an affordable solution to the decline in paysite sales?

And if so what is it?

It's obviously nothing the industry has been doing, or they were doing it wrong.

Let's stop side tracking the thread because we don't have an answer. Let's think of the future, your future.

Just Alex · 10-02-2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So lets get back to the theme of the thread and stop side tracking it.

Is there an affordable solution to the decline in paysite sales?

And if so what is it?

It's obviously nothing the industry has been doing, or they were doing it wrong.

Let's stop side tracking the thread because we don't have an answer. Let's think of the future, your future.

Good morning to you too Paul. Can you please start another topic please.

Paul Markham · 10-02-2011, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I have no idea who you are, but you might have just pegged it right on the nose.

I honestly believe that a lot of people had zero business sense. They put up a few paysites with purchased content and made bank. Why? Because it was new. Ten years later anyone can open up a paysite and the customers are no longer interested.

I think only one company in our industry has marketing correctly - Girls Gone Wild. You walk into any party on a college campus and ask them who Naughty America is and they'll have no clue. But everyone knows Girls Gone Wild.

What we need to do is concentrate on becoming more mainstream....

Agreed. Anyone who had been in business and went to an online show could see clearly that the gurus of online porn were just lucky to be in the right place at the right time.

The number of fucked up business decisions these guys made is astounding.

They bought cheap disc that were sold in 1,000s from Z master. Then found out it was saturated. And the solution was buy from people who couldn't sell a set 10 times in a mainstream niche.

They had shows and kept out the real customers. Because the thought they were idiots. Anyone who went to an offline porn show could see the money to be made, information to gather and benefits of letting in people interested to meet porn stars. Would have for online. Much better to keep them out.

They thought porn was hard to sell.

Thought the the more porn they gave away = More sales, without realising it would kill sales eventually.

They thought paying affiliates a lot of money, to build a barrier between them and the customer was a great idea.

Didn't have the business sense to keep marketing in house and under their control.

Don't have the sense to look at the real reasons for falling sales. Blame it on other factors.

Don't have any idea how to grow in a tough market. Except increase the problem.

When a guru says something I've said for a long time. He's said the wisest thing ever. Me I'm clueless. Still saying the same thing.

We now hold industry shows, in the basement bar of a hotel. With people buying traffic to support those taking the traffic.

Robbie · 10-03-2011, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Anyone who had been in business and went to an online show could see clearly that the gurus of online porn were just lucky to be in the right place at the right time.

And you could change that to every business since the beginning of time.

The folks who get in on the ground level and are able to be successful in the beginning are always the trailblazers and "big boys".

A business motto I've lived by for many years has always been: "There is NO right time if you're not IN the right place"

What I'm saying Paul is that you're not really saying much of anything in these posts.
Yes, in every industry the guys who happen to be free of anything else to do in their lives and have the time and fire in the belly to jump on something at the ground level and give it their all are many times very successful.

Yes, it's been a huge mistake to give away porn for free when it would sell like hotcakes because everybody wants it.

No, it doesn't take a marketing genius to sell porn (as long as it's not being given away for free). But quite frankly...it doesn't take a "genius" to sell most anything in life. But yes, porn was real easy...until the last 3 years when people gave it ALL away and started selling cams and dating and anything else BUT porn.

You are right.

And some people have found ways to work hard and come up with ideas and still make good money (I did). But it's nowhere near the money that COULD be made if the last 3 years hadn't happened.
But it did happen and that's that.

Can it change back?
Yes.
But it will only change back when it is forced legally to do so (as in no more pornography allowed outside of a members area...not even samples of nudity) Can that happen? I suppose it possible, but not very probable.

So you talk about the future...
Well, here is my future: I plan on surviving in the porn business. I thoroughly enjoy what I'm doing. And even now I still make many times more money than most any other occupation I can think of.

There ARE people like me in this business who have the ability to ride this thing out and keep making very nice money. And every day that I survive is another day that my branding becomes another bit stronger and I find more ways to make money in porn.

Let others sell whatever they please and talk about "business" and "marketing". And you can continue to make these absurd posts telling everyone what we already know.
Bottom line? I'm going to keep doing what I enjoy and making the kind of money that most people in this world only dream of.

Paul Markham · 10-03-2011, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

To be truthful, although still profitable, webcam and dating sites have a limited future in their current format.

And they will crash like paysites did when the customers move over to free webcam and dating sites, like they did with paysites. Free porn alway existed and it did hit sales. It's now people can see it clearly that they're hurting. It will happen to webcams and dating. Then paysites might come back, because Tubes will lose advertising revenue.

You can bet money they won't come back if we rely on the efforts of paysites to bring them back.

Quote:

I have seen some trends into new formats but I think them to be just rehashes of old ideas -- fundamentally they are not new at the core.

This was all paysites did, never used the Internet to it's fullest potential. Just shot stills and videos and loaded them onto a site. Then gave them away.

Quote:

We are diversifying into new markets. Of course, we want to continue to build on our success in the adult market also wishing to develop potentially successful endeavors in more mainstream markets.

Yes good move.

Quote:

If you think "adult" to be competitive -- mainstream will "rock your socks" ...

If they think adult online is competitive. They would of got taught a lesson or 3 if they had looked long and hard at offlin adult. They would of got eaten alive. Or totally ignored.

There was very valuable lessons to be learned in offline adult. But online guys were to clever to look at another side of the industry. They might of learned how to create a great site for zero costs. They might of learned the harm giving away the product for free was doing. They might of learned that most of them were doing nothing with content that hadn't been done offline for years. They might of learned to be less arrogant that they were the "New bright kids on the block." And were just "New kids."

Robbie you missed my point. The "gurus" weren't as clever as people thought they were. Just in the right place at the right time. That's my point.

If they had been clever they would of walked across the corridor at the Vegas trade shows and learned from the other sides of the industry. If they were clever they would of seen an asshole like me didn't need them. And shot crap content. And figured out how to monetize their content production better. If they were clever they would of learned how to build a site like FTV or Met-Art level fro free.

In the right place at the right time and not clever enough to learn from their left and right.

DamianJ · 10-03-2011, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RycEric

Last I checked, I didn't report to you Damian. You know ZERO about our scope. So hate on...

Did I mention you? No. There are dozens of content removal places aren't there?

And I'm far from hating just asking a question. Just seems if content removal was beneficial to anyone aside from the outfit charging to do the removal that there would be just one case study, white paper or press release.

That's all.

Jel · 10-03-2011, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Robbie you missed my point. The "gurus" weren't as clever as people thought they were. Just in the right place at the right time. That's my point.

If they had been clever they would of walked across the corridor at the Vegas trade shows and learned from the other sides of the industry. If they were clever they would of seen an asshole like me didn't need them. And shot crap content. And figured out how to monetize their content production better. If they were clever they would of learned how to build a site like FTV or Met-Art level fro free.

In the right place at the right time and not clever enough to learn from their left and right.

Excellent, 'problem' solved. Thanks.

Paul Markham · 10-03-2011, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

And you could change that to every business since the beginning of time.

The folks who get in on the ground level and are able to be successful in the beginning are always the trailblazers and "big boys".

A business motto I've lived by for many years has always been: "There is NO right time if you're not IN the right place"

You never got my point. These guys weren't some sort of great businessmen they were just in the right place at the right time. Most of them if they had started 5 years later would of sunk trying to keep afloat.

Quote:

Yes, it's been a huge mistake to give away porn for free when it would sell like hotcakes because everybody wants it.

No, it doesn't take a marketing genius to sell porn (as long as it's not being given away for free). But quite frankly...it doesn't take a "genius" to sell most anything in life. But yes, porn was real easy...until the last 3 years when people gave it ALL away and started selling cams and dating and anything else BUT porn.

you're dead right. It doesn't take a marketing genius to sell something once. Your band could easily get a one night stand at a club. Once you had that the second night repeat booking was dependent on the bands performnce, getting a residency was the ultimate for many. Going on to become the next Rolling Stones was dependent on one thing. The quality of the band.

Porn is the same, a one off sale is easy, if you don't make it hard by giving it away, retaining that one month membership relies on the quality inside the site. Over market the product and the customers expectations are higher.

In an industry that keeps using the "Bottled water" analogy without seeing their stupidity. Well you have to wonder how good these guys are at marketing. Can anyone else see the failure of this analogy when applied to porn?

Quote:

And some people have found ways to work hard and come up with ideas and still make good money (I did). But it's nowhere near the money that COULD be made if the last 3 years hadn't happened.
But it did happen and that's that.

Your initial boost was in people thinking the way to sell porn was to give it away. And pay you a lot of money to do so.

Quote:

Can it change back?
Yes.
But it will only change back when it is forced legally to do so (as in no more pornography allowed outside of a members area...not even samples of nudity) Can that happen? I suppose it possible, but not very probable.

So the business is waiting on the highly improbable.

Quote:

So you talk about the future...
Well, here is my future: I plan on surviving in the porn business. I thoroughly enjoy what I'm doing. And even now I still make many times more money than most any other occupation I can think of.

There ARE people like me in this business who have the ability to ride this thing out and keep making very nice money. And every day that I survive is another day that my branding becomes another bit stronger and I find more ways to make money in porn.

Yes we did the same, 3 years after the 2 devastating blows we got, that made us close the business, then the demise of the magazine business we are still "riding it out" and doing little work. Been a great 34 years and might make it 35, never will make it 36. And I'm an idiot.

Quote:

Let others sell whatever they please and talk about "business" and "marketing". And you can continue to make these absurd posts telling everyone what we already know.

Well there are lots who question what we all know. did you see the posts of those saying no one knows there's a drop in online porn?

I'm giving people something to think about, is there another way out of the mess we created. Is there a way to turn around the sales decline, is there a way to keep members longer?

Well yes there is and the answer lies inside the members area with it's content and not traffic.

I don't find pointless excuses for people not converting better, don't come up with replies like "no one converts 100%" or "80% might be kids without a card". We all know the problem and knew it from the early days when a gallery on the Hun could cost more than the members it acquired. People look at the gallery, see the content and say no. They don't even bother going to the site.

The solution never was throw up more galleries. The solution was right in front of them. find the sites like FTV, Alsscan, etc and duplicate. Not just get some cheap shooter to churn out cheap sets in an attempt to duplicate the site. Get a good shooter to shoot something better.

Then watch earnings sky rocket. Today it may be to late with recorded porn, may be live won't solve it. However an industry which thinks it can duplicate the performance of a great site, with a crap site is dreaming.

I like every other content provider knows why it was. While you were earning millions, putting up galleries, they wanted to pay us peanuts to create the product. Then scratched their heads at why they weren't doing so well. So threw up more free content to get more sales.

you and I can sit back and relax about the future, a few big sponsors can turn their sites into Tubes. For the rest of the trolls. They had best be getting their CVs up to date. Good luck to them getting past the first interview when asked exactly what did you do online?

I got GFY Troll of the year award.

Paul Markham · 10-03-2011, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideongallery

yup really cheap one

product placement

you could make back every penny your losing in sales

hell you could make money by giving way access.

of course the clueless copyright holders will say that it won't work because MAINSTREAM companies would not want to be associated with porn.

Have you ever tried to do it?

I have. Went around show after show and asked every toy manufacturer, lingerie company, lube company or anyone else I could think it would work for. For a free sample that I would feature in my movies that were seen by millions, remember they were saturated. They wouldn't even give away a free sample that costs them pennies.

Go and try it and then sell it to the people who make the movies. Like they do in Mainstream. There's often an agency between the product maker and the movie maker. You can do the same.

DamianJ · 10-03-2011, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Have you ever tried to do it?

I have. Went around show after show and asked every toy manufacturer, lingerie company, lube company or anyone else I could think it would work for. For a free sample that I would feature in my movies that were seen by millions, remember they were saturated. They wouldn't even give away a free sample that costs them pennies.

Go and try it and then sell it to the people who make the movies. Like they do in Mainstream. There's often an agency between the product maker and the movie maker. You can do the same.

Paul, a dirty old man going round a B2C show asking for free samples /= product placement.

Paul Markham · 10-03-2011, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Paul, a dirty old man going round a B2C show asking for free samples /= product placement.

No but an experienced porn shooter with samples of his films and sites going around a B2C show does.

Who are you talking about?

Go do some more yoga, you're slipping back to your old self. You were a lot less hateful before, what's happened in your life?

TheDoc · 10-03-2011, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Have you ever tried to do it?

I have. Went around show after show and asked every toy manufacturer, lingerie company, lube company or anyone else I could think it would work for. For a free sample that I would feature in my movies that were seen by millions, remember they were saturated. They wouldn't even give away a free sample that costs them pennies.

Go and try it and then sell it to the people who make the movies. Like they do in Mainstream. There's often an agency between the product maker and the movie maker. You can do the same.

One thing we can say about you Paul is you've at least done some "real" work in this business....

On the other hand, Gideon has not, nor has he ever tried to sell porn to mainstream or anyone else.

Of course, that industry is much more massive than us, and tracks everything under the sun, and will buy ads anyplace THEY think can turn a profit or expand the brand... yet THEY do not come to US, even after some of us have gone to them already....

A few million out-of-target views, is like what, an hour on a tv? A street fair can turn more "targeted" views than a porn flick can... but again, he's not really in the business.

Barry-xlovecam · 10-03-2011, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

And they will crash like paysites did when the customers move over to free webcam and dating sites, like they did with paysites. Free porn alway existed and it did hit sales. It's now people can see it clearly that they're hurting. It will happen to webcams and dating. Then paysites might come back, because Tubes will lose advertising revenue.

There have been free sex cams in chatrooms for years and it has gone nowhere --Why?

For reason that 90% are guys "snaking" on cam -- stroking their cocks and looking for women to watch them. That is what you get for free ... Good deal for gay guys :=))

Other cam sites have adopted the tips model in free chat this leads to "sexually explicit activity." While I have no problem with sexually explicit activity per se I do feel that it should be restricted view -- that restriction being that all reasonable attempts be made to prevent minors from viewing sexually explicit activity, this is mainly for legal reasons. Also, I don't need the bad publicity nor governmental interference that would come with the unwise decision, IMHO, to allow sexually explicit activity in the free chats.

The difference is that we (as a cam business) actively manage the scenario in free chat whereas using Yahoo chat (and its cams) as example; the circumstance is that of *user actions* creating an affirmative defense of any liability for Yahoo as to the act itself -- this is a major consideration from my point of view.

Offline publishing has become irrelevant as a profitable business activity. Paul, if you learned lessons from it 20 years ago that you could apply to contemporary marketing efforts then they are of value. If those lessons are limited to the enterprise of offline publishing they are worthless ...

I think the "rules" of selling are basically static but the marketing angle in selling is ever evolving. I still use the same basics of selling that I used 30 years ago but apply contemporary marketing influence to both my business model and the presentation of my offer. People still buy for the same basic reasons that they bought 3,000 years ago but if you are still trying to sell buggy whips today you won't sell shit ... Complaining that no one is buying my buggy whips is futile -- there is no market for buggy whips other than a very small niche.

Now, if I was trying to sell whips and chains to persons of Fetish, S&M or B&D interests I might find a decent marketplace in which I can prosper ...

Paul Markham · 10-03-2011, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

There have been free sex cams in chatrooms for years and it has gone nowhere --Why?

For reason that 90% are guys "snaking" on cam -- stroking their cocks and looking for women to watch them. That is what you get for free ... Good deal for gay guys :=))

So far.

Quote:

Other cam sites have adopted the tips model in free chat this leads to "sexually explicit activity." While I have no problem with sexually explicit activity per se I do feel that it should be restricted view -- that restriction being that all reasonable attempts be made to prevent minors from viewing sexually explicit activity, this is mainly for legal reasons. Also, I don't need the bad publicity nor governmental interference that would come with the unwise decision, IMHO, to allow sexually explicit activity in the free chats.

They really don't care, like tubes don't care, nor paysites giving away free porn care at who see it.

Quote:

The difference is that we (as a cam business) actively manage the scenario in free chat whereas using Yahoo chat (and its cams) as example; the circumstance is that of *user actions* creating an affirmative defense of any liability for Yahoo as to the act itself -- this is a major consideration from my point of view.

Good. A well managed product is the solution.

Quote:

Offline publishing has become irrelevant as a profitable business activity. Paul, if you learned lessons from it 20 years ago that you could apply to contemporary marketing efforts then they are of value. If those lessons are limited to the enterprise of offline publishing they are worthless ...

A friend and I made a huge mistake years ago, long before most here had heard of online porn. He was selling discs of images, via adverting on Newsgroups. If we had launched a site, watermarked all the images we would of made a fortune. That's my real regret with online marketing. I did recognise the opportunity to sell images to paysites after I had sold them to magazines.

Quote:

I think the "rules" of selling are basically static but the marketing angle in selling is ever evolving. I still use the same basics of selling that I used 30 years ago but apply contemporary marketing influence to both my business model and the presentation of my offer. People still buy for the same basic reasons that they bought 3,000 years ago but if you are still trying to sell buggy whips today you won't sell shit ... Complaining that no one is buying my buggy whips is futile -- there is no market for buggy whips other than a very small niche.

The rules of selling haven't ever changed. Find a need, create a product to fill that need, find a person who has that need and sell your product to him.

When marketing involves killing the need to buy to fill the need. The marketing is destroying sales.

Yes everything evolves. And what worked online 10 years ago, in the paysite arena, doesn't work today. I can see that and keep throwing up ideas to change it. Might be the wrong ideas, but at least I'm throwing them up. See anyone else doing that?

Yes Shap just did it and he was applauded for saying the same thing as me. The content is the solution. By content I mean the entire product.

Still not had an answer to my original question.

Is there an affordable solution to the decline in paysite sales?

DamianJ · 10-03-2011, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I can see that and keep throwing up (an) idea to change it.

Just corrected your plural there.

HTH

Paul Markham · 10-03-2011, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Just corrected your plural there.

HTH

You're a marketing man. So point out the flaw in this often used statement.

"If they can sell bottle water and water is free, then we should be able to sell porn."

DamianJ · 10-03-2011, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You're a marketing man. So point out the flaw in this often used statement.

"If they can sell bottle water and water is free, then we should be able to sell porn."

Well the point you keep making ad nauseum is that people aren't giving away water on every street corner, and that people pay water rates. You've said that about 2320390293 times now.

However, the thing you fail to understand is that analogies are pointless. REALLY fucking pointless and just derail any discussion as people argue over the minute details of the analogy.

There is free porn. You won't stop that. What else?

What was your other point? Oh yes, spend more on content.

Any other actual *ideas* or are you spent already?

Jel · 10-03-2011, 07:28 AM

wankham's threads = online equivalent of The Word. Funny, embarrassing, cringeworthy, jaw-droppingly unbelievable, but fuck me it's addictive viewing, for the weird sensation that is all those adjectives combined.

Jel · 10-03-2011, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

However, the thing you fail to understand is that analogies are pointless. REALLY fucking pointless and just derail any discussion as people argue over the minute details of the analogy.

Exackery. I was too lazy to post that exact same thing to his date/wife/whatever the fuck it was called thread.

You're still a cunt though

Paul Markham · 10-03-2011, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Well the point you keep making ad nauseum is that people aren't giving away water on every street corner, and that people pay water rates. You've said that about 2320390293 times now.

However, the thing you fail to understand is that analogies are pointless. REALLY fucking pointless and just derail any discussion as people argue over the minute details of the analogy.

There is free porn. You won't stop that. What else?

What was your other point? Oh yes, spend more on content.

Any other actual *ideas* or are you spent already?

Just trying to point out the stupidity of the people who use that analogy. You have it in one.

The only thing I can think of is to move away from pre recorded porn, then the people who want live porn, chat to models will come back. Not on a 1-1 person type chat or scene but a 1-100s or 1,000s. Maybe with tips thrown in, maybe with the girls selling phone chat 1-1 experiences.

Had to be well managed and well done, not like NaughtyAmerica, it need to be done by people who understand the porn consumer, the market and not hung up on a 61 year old who likes sex. That guy's in the wrong business.

61 year olds who like sex might be a very good target market, don't need guys who think it's weird that a 61 year old can shoot naked girls.

Actually you're wrong, again, on spend more on content. some sites put up too much poor churned out scenes. Cut the number of crap scenes and shot less but better. Adding another scene that's no different from what's already on the site isn't that appealing.

The question I asked in this thread is.

Is there an affordable solution to the decline ip paysite sales?

I suppose I should change it to.

Is there a solution and is it an affordable solution to the decline ip paysite sales?

So far you flame my suggestions and never come up with any alternatives. Maybe knowing there's no solution annoys people.

DamianJ · 10-03-2011, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So far you flame my suggestions and never come up with any alternatives.

Stop misusing internet terms. It highlights your lack of comprehension of this whole thing. I didn't 'flame' your suggestion. I pointed out you make the same suggestions and have done for years.

flame: To insult a person you are arguing with over the internet in hopes of reviving your argument.
You are an idiot for thinking this.

I've got almost 2 years of original and new suggestions on my blog: www.adultmarketing.co.uk

Sorry no one likes your ideas. But still, you are managing to annoy people by trolling so it gives you something to do.

epitome · 10-03-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Have you ever tried to do it?

I have. Went around show after show and asked every toy manufacturer, lingerie company, lube company or anyone else I could think it would work for. For a free sample that I would feature in my movies that were seen by millions, remember they were saturated. They wouldn't even give away a free sample that costs them pennies.

Go and try it and then sell it to the people who make the movies. Like they do in Mainstream. There's often an agency between the product maker and the movie maker. You can do the same.

You are lying. Lube companies and companies like FleshJack give their products away all of the time.

Go check out the sponsors at soyouthinkyoucanfuck.net ... any halfway decent gay porn producer doesn't pay for lube or toys.

Just because you can't make something work doesn't mean others can't.

Just like we've all been saying all along about your stupid arguments and own failures.

TheSquealer · 10-03-2011, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You're a marketing man. So point out the flaw in this often used statement.

"If they can sell bottle water and water is free, then we should be able to sell porn."

It's a poor analogy to begin with. A poor analogy offered to an idiot for a misguided and backwards dissection.

People buy bottled water because they are buying an image. They are buying an idea. Fresh, Spring, Mountains, Pure, Healthy etc etc etc etc etc etc. Just like with bottled porn sales, you have no real idea why people buy and what they are paying for and what causes them to buy.

You continually single out one minor factor (and a subjective one) like "quality" and remain totally ignorant that has little to do with sales. It has to do with value and users finding what they are looking for, a product that is well packaged, targeting that exact person, their exact needs/tastes and a very clear, well laid out site that is consistent from start to finish in its presentation. People don't necessarily need "quality" and one's idea of "quality" is different from another. An amateur site isn't selling "quality", its selling "amateur" and the quality of the actual videos is almost always horrible. In fact, being a good quality video is a negative, not a positive.

YOU don't understand these simple facts and one of the many flaws in YOUR reasoning is that water is in fact free everywhere, yet people pay for it. Just as with porn. Water is available in every single household for free. There is not a single person that pays for bottled water that doesn't have unfettered access to free water. So obviously, availability, free or not, isn't much of a factor in bottled water sales just as it is only a minor factor in porn sales. It's all marketing.

TheSquealer · 10-03-2011, 08:01 AM

And its time to start facing the awful, painful truth Paul. Your 34 years of producing content and business experience is now netting you about $1000.00-$2000.00 a month or so and you live off of government pensions, not your work.

At the end of the day,... your content at best is nothing more than a loss leader for others and filler content for thrown together tgps or worse.

That's the simple fact of your career and how it has ended. It's sad. It's depressing. It is what it is.

Please stop all the pontificating and lecturing about things you know nothing about. When even Robbie is calling you an idiot, its really time for a reality check.

Argos88 · 10-03-2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RycEric

Last I checked, I didn't report to you Damian. You know ZERO about our scope. So hate on...

Last time I checked your name was eric.. not tony..

How many FAKE names do you have, asshole?

interesting how you charge people for your shitty services, heh.

plsureking · 10-03-2011, 08:09 AM

i'm enjoying Markham's demise here lol

Paul Markham · 10-03-2011, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

I've got almost 2 years of original and new suggestions on my blog: www.adultmarketing.co.uk

So are people ignoring you or maybe trying your suggestions and finding out they don't work?

What happened to the Lolly Badcock site? They were using your ideas and they couldn't afford to pay the model on a strict shoot and pay basis. So they could KEEP the site up after SHE decided it would come down.

Quote:

You are lying. Lube companies and companies like FleshJack give their products away all of the time.

Go check out the sponsors at soyouthinkyoucanfuck.net ... any halfway decent gay porn producer doesn't pay for lube or toys.

Just because you can't make something work doesn't mean others can't.

Just like we've all been saying all along about your stupid arguments and own failures.

I'm not lying,I did try it. Maybe if I can't make it work others can. Still doesn't mean free lubes and toys will fund the production of a porn film.

I suppose if Naughty America couldn't make live cams on a paysite work, doesn't mean others can't.

Best-In-BC · 10-03-2011, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

Of course they can pay $500.00 per day if having a live pornstar on line increases sales enough to pay a live pornstar by that amount plus.

Using your figure of $5.00 per sale it would have to increase sales by 100 per day plus...and what evidence do you have to indicate that using a live pornstar would accomplish this? I do not see why it would.

That seems to be what ever paysite webmaster wants now, so its working somewhere for someone.

DamianJ · 10-03-2011, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So are people ignoring you or maybe trying your suggestions and finding out they don't work?

Maybe I should just post the same two ideas on gfy all day and call people idiots?

And Lolly retired Paul. As you know. When you work with a TV station there is much more revenue to be earned by keeping a girl sweet and getting her on TV than on a website. Or maybe you didn't realise that?

10-02-2011, 02:41 PM	#52
jimmycooper Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2010 Location: Manhattan Posts: 4,016	It really has nothing to do with the traffic in and of itself, it has to do with the convergence of two rapidly maturing markets and the fact that the evolution of one of those markets, or submarket (adult) is determined largely by the evolution of the larger, broader, all encompassing market itself. IE, the interweb. Regardless, the Content vs. Traffic debate needs to be put to bed forever because neither account for the true X-factor - User Experience. Marketing, particularly lifestyle marketing, can be effectively utilized to alter the consumer's perception of their experience, but only to an extent because the user will ultimately develop his or her own opinion of the experience. What's troubling is that 'interactivity', in the parlance of GFY, is automatically assumed to be defined as 'interaction between model and user'. Not only is that wrong, it serves as another example of how everyone is trying to catch the next big thing without ever understanding the elemental reasons of why that thing has shown to be successful in the first place. The correct definition of Interaction, in it's purest essence when applied to adult paysites, is a user experience in which the user interacts with something other than his schlong. In most circumstances, I'd even go so far as to say that doing a Mad-Lib is more 'interactive' than a generic 'live show. Here, I'll even test the theory?. That was pretty fun. Another thing about the Met-Art user generated galleries is that being able to make custom galleries and vote on the galleries of others not only gives MetArt members something to do, but it also creates a sense of community. Not just any type of community,though, but a community that's based almost entirely upon the opinions of one's peers. It gives people a chance to be popular. __________________

10-02-2011, 03:06 PM	#53
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	Heh-heh....jimmycooper I remember when there were live feeds that did everything you are saying and more. You could "re-write" the whole scene. I think it was Pornholio that had those? But this was over 10 years ago so it's hard to remember. Anyway you could pick the girl then the guy from a list of people (or any combination) and then pick what you wanted them to do every step of the way. And they had filmed all the possibilites that you chose. So when the vid played it did exactly what you picked. It never went much of anywhere though, I don't know if anybody even bothers to do those kinds of feed anymore. It definitely didn't get a lot of interest from the members (and this was on "old school" paysites we had back from the late 90's with nothing but pictures...except for the video feeds) People like to "interact", but only as far as it goes. When it comes time to be entertained...they want to be able to sit back a that point and BE entertained. The interaction really comes more from being able to talk to the performer. Especially when it is particular girls. If you are a fan of Sara Jay for instance...you want to be able to talk shit to her directly. And you're 1000% right about a "sense of community". You want to have a "family" online. Where everybody feels that they belong and have a common sense of purpose. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

10-02-2011, 03:44 PM	#56
TACNet Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 452	Cant find it now but whoever said its all about marketing was absolutely correct. We have 250 pay sites on tacamateurs and I rarely get to read forums like this as I spend 2 to 3 hours every day marketing. Granted we are not what we were when we started 10 years ago but the sales are still there if your prepared to work the traffic each and every day. Plus I see the recession as a boost to our business. Guys arent going out drinking or clubbing these days cos they cant afford it. Much cheaper to sit at home looking at porn Anyway, just thought Id add my 2 cents. __________________ TAC Amateurs - The World's LARGEST Amateur Porn Network

10-02-2011, 09:28 PM	#67
TheSenator Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 13,332	FTV members area point thread closed. __________________ ISeekGirls.com since 2005

10-02-2011, 11:32 PM	#72
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	So lets get back to the theme of the thread and stop side tracking it. Is there an affordable solution to the decline in paysite sales? And if so what is it? It's obviously nothing the industry has been doing, or they were doing it wrong. Let's stop side tracking the thread because we don't have an answer. Let's think of the future, your future. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-02-2011, 04:13 PM	#60
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	not a cam expert but been looking at some of the free cam sites and the women who get tipped off the hook seem to be fat, or old or some hot chicks who don't even get naked. looks like personality and talking a lot brings in the tips.

10-02-2011, 09:02 PM	#66
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	Paul, tell me the average cart to checkout ratio on mainstream sites. Hint: its not 97%. This is based on what other people in this thread have been saying. Ecommerce is a lot different that brick and mortar. A click of the mouse is so much easier than getting in your car and driving to a store...much more likely to click away when you have nothing invested.

10-02-2011, 09:54 PM	#68
glowlite Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Arizona/Indiana Posts: 366	MisterPeabody has a grip on the situation. Online marketing is simply that, online marketing. You either know how to market successfully or you don't. It really doesn't matter what the product is. It could be shovels, snowshoes, batteries, porn, linens, whatever. If you know how to, 1) create (pre-sell) a sense of desire 2) create a sense of urgency 3) provide an immediate solution Then sales WILL happen. I've only met a few adult marketers. By-and-large most are simply "order takers".

10-02-2011, 11:31 PM	#71
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	go take a nap old man.

10-03-2011, 07:28 AM	#89
Jel Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,904	wankham's threads = online equivalent of The Word. Funny, embarrassing, cringeworthy, jaw-droppingly unbelievable, but fuck me it's addictive viewing, for the weird sensation that is all those adjectives combined.

10-03-2011, 08:01 AM	#95
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,112	And its time to start facing the awful, painful truth Paul. Your 34 years of producing content and business experience is now netting you about $1000.00-$2000.00 a month or so and you live off of government pensions, not your work. At the end of the day,... your content at best is nothing more than a loss leader for others and filler content for thrown together tgps or worse. That's the simple fact of your career and how it has ended. It's sad. It's depressing. It is what it is. Please stop all the pontificating and lecturing about things you know nothing about. When even Robbie is calling you an idiot, its really time for a reality check. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard Last edited by TheSquealer; 10-03-2011 at 08:03 AM..

10-03-2011, 08:09 AM	#97
plsureking bored Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Metaverse Posts: 4,675	i'm enjoying Markham's demise here lol __________________ #