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-   -   Correct me if I'm wrong but has the british police KILLED an innocent man today? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=495013)

Relish XXX 07-23-2005 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mardigras
This story is evolving so much that everything you say above may be changed by tomorrow. Armed police? I thought they were undercover. Maybe the guy was paranoid anyway and the sudden appearance of someone following him with weapons freaked him out. They said they followed him from a house.

So are you saying they should pop anyone that meets enough of the signs that they might be a suicide bomber? If so, it shouldn't be necessary once they have them on the ground. Why defend what they did when they are appologizing for it themselves?

Anyone that displays his actions deserves to be shot. He acted like a suicide bombber and died. His fault.

Yes I do think anyone that jumps over turnstyles with winter clothing on in front of the police when they asked him to stop deserves to get shot.

Why act like a terrorist if you arent one?

mardigras 07-23-2005 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relish XXX
Anyone that displays his actions deserves to be shot. He acted like a suicide bombber and died. His fault.

Yes I do think anyone that jumps over turnstyles with winter clothing on in front of the police when they asked him to stop deserves to get shot.

Why act like a terrorist if you arent one?

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?... l5Mghahahaha
Quote:

Police had followed the man from a house they had been watching in connection with Thursday's blasts.

He jumped over a turnstile and darted into the train car, eyewitnesses said.
Doesn't sound like he ran hundreds of yards as some have suggested. Sounds easily like he may have freaked when he realized the person(s) he thought were following him actually were. They should have had uniformed cops close enough and ready to jump in and identify themselves when it came to making an apprehension in the middle of citizens.

Gunni 07-23-2005 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
yet, oddly enough, he wasn't

You're arguments are so stupid it is insane!
It is exactly the same as if there was a situation where police men point a gun at a suspect, tell him to freeze or they will shoot, and the suspect puts his hand in his pocket to pull something out, now tell me, what will cops all over the world do in that situation?

My answer is: "They will shoot him!"
If your answer is: "They will wait to see if he pulls a gun and shoots them" then you are stupid.

What else on earth could they do? They have to shoot him!
Not following instructions from the police will get you hurt or killed, that is how it is in most countries in the world, just as simple as that

Johny Traffic 07-23-2005 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunni
You're arguments are so stupid it is insane!
It is exactly the same as if there was a situation where police men point a gun at a suspect, tell him to freeze or they will shoot, and the suspect puts his hand in his pocket to pull something out, now tell me, what will cops all over the world do in that situation?

My answer is: "They will shoot him!"
If your answer is: "They will wait to see if he pulls a gun and shoots them" then you are stupid.

What else on earth could they do? They have to shoot him!
Not following instructions from the police will get you hurt or killed, that is how it is in most countries in the world, just as simple as that

The terrorist doesnt have a high enough post count for baddog to agree with, If he had 20k+ he would have agreed with him no problem.

PS Do you know the difference between 2 billion muslims not wearing turbins and 1 billion hundus wearing turbins yet badddgog?

Relish XXX 07-23-2005 04:21 PM

For him to have got to the train he would have had to have jumped the turnstyles. There are police, uniformed, infront of every station at the moment so he would have had to have pushed past them.

baddog 07-23-2005 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunni
You're arguments are so stupid it is insane!
It is exactly the same as if there was a situation where police men point a gun at a suspect, tell him to freeze or they will shoot, and the suspect puts his hand in his pocket to pull something out, now tell me, what will cops all over the world do in that situation?

My answer is: "They will shoot him!"
If your answer is: "They will wait to see if he pulls a gun and shoots them" then you are stupid.

What else on earth could they do? They have to shoot him!
Not following instructions from the police will get you hurt or killed, that is how it is in most countries in the world, just as simple as that


The man was stopped, he was on the ground, with five police officers on top of him.

Should they shoot him simply because he ran?

What if LAPD ended every police chase with an execution? It would sure make for some interesting television, but you guys would be yelling and screaming all day long.

Relish XXX 07-23-2005 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
The man was stopped, he was on the ground, with five police officers on top of him.

Should they shoot him simply because he ran?

What if LAPD ended every police chase with an execution? It would sure make for some interesting television, but you guys would be yelling and screaming all day long.

There are exceptional circumstances in the UK. He is a retard not to have realised. There arent armed police outside most stations in London everyday of the week usually.

mardigras 07-23-2005 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relish XXX
There are police, uniformed, infront of every station at the moment so he would have had to have pushed past them.

Nowhere have I read that is what happened.

Gunni 07-23-2005 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
The man was stopped, he was on the ground, with five police officers on top of him.

Should they shoot him simply because he ran?

What if LAPD ended every police chase with an execution? It would sure make for some interesting television, but you guys would be yelling and screaming all day long.

Are you just making things up or something?
There were not 5 police officers on top of him!
The guy is wearing a heavily padded jacket in the middle of summer, he disregards the police shouting at him to stop and jusps over a ticket barrier (and these things are almost 6 feet high), continues to disregard police shouting at him to stop in what apears to be a desparate attempt to get on a train loaded with people.
When he get's on the police is right on his tail, he stumbles and police fire 5 shots at him to be sure he dies with out blowing up the train.

You must admit that even if there were as tyou say 5 officers on top of him, beliving that he is a suicide bomber, what else where they supposed to do, say "he man, if you blow up the bomb we will shoot you!"
They thought he was a SUICIDE bomber, and the guy didn't exactly do anything to convince them otherwise.

I have seen a video of about 10 American officers shooting a man armed with a knife about 50 times, I can dig it up if you want to, think it is on CJ.
This is not a matter of USA vs. the rest of the world, and I really doubt anyone would say anything if the same situation arose in America, and if it did I would still defend it

Gunni 07-23-2005 04:43 PM

here is an eye witness telling exactly what happen, and a computer generated image.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2...330912,00.html
Notice the guy on the black jacket on the floor, that is the suspect, the guy in the light blue top is the police officer shooting him.

There are not 5 police officers on top of him, the guy litterally flung him self on the train, and the police officers would have had to make the desicion to either shoot him or dive for cover them selfs (as they did think he had a bomb).

Relish XXX 07-23-2005 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mardigras
Nowhere have I read that is what happened.

I live here. I use the train everyday. There is not one station where you can get on now without being searched.

Relish XXX 07-23-2005 04:47 PM

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2...330912,00.html

That link proves everything that has been said.

baddog 07-23-2005 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relish XXX
There are exceptional circumstances in the UK.


Tell me, how different to things have to get before it is acceptable to have someone down on the ground and it be perfectly acceptable to shoot him 5 times?

Johny Traffic 07-23-2005 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
Tell me, how different to things have to get before it is acceptable to have someone down on the ground and it be perfectly acceptable to shoot him 5 times?

when people start blowing themselves up with bombs. Whats the acceptable leval over there?

Gunni 07-23-2005 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
Tell me, how different to things have to get before it is acceptable to have someone down on the ground and it be perfectly acceptable to shoot him 5 times?

That time is actually right now, but I imagine you ment "before it is not acceptable".

what is with you? how can you say what they did is not acceptable?
I really hope you are just winding people up, if not then you are just weird.

Look at the link to the sun, that both I and Relish posted, read what actually happened, and if you still think they should have waited to see if he actually did have a bomb and was going to blow it up then I'll give up trying to reason with you.

baddog 07-23-2005 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johny Traffic
when people start blowing themselves up with bombs. Whats the acceptable leval over there?


So everyone is fair game huh? People jump the turnstiles in NYC subways daily. I guess "shoot to kill" should be the order of the day for the transit police.

TheSwed 07-23-2005 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
Tell me, how different to things have to get before it is acceptable to have someone down on the ground and it be perfectly acceptable to shoot him 5 times?

/Quote from the sun
As the suspect entered the Tube station they were given permission by a senior officer to shoot if they felt the public was in jeopardy.

And when the suspect began to travel down an escalator to the trains the officers yelled ?Police, stop!?

But the man fled, vaulting a ticket barrier and sprinting for the platform.

As he stumbled on to a northbound Victoria Line train the officers closed in.

One of them then opened fire, hitting the man in the head.

Last night police sources said the dead man was not armed or carrying explosives.

He was not thought to be one of the four failed suicide bombers from Thursday?s attacks.

But he IS believed to have close links to at least one terrorist.
/End Qoute

If thats the true,they have reason :2 cents:

baddog 07-23-2005 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunni
That time is actually right now, but I imagine you ment "before it is not acceptable".

what is with you? how can you say what they did is not acceptable?
I really hope you are just winding people up, if not then you are just weird.

Look at the link to the sun, that both I and Relish posted, read what actually happened, and if you still think they should have waited to see if he actually did have a bomb and was going to blow it up then I'll give up trying to reason with you.


They had him down. 5 cops on him, then they shot him. That is acceptable I guess.

Yet this isn't.

baddog 07-23-2005 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSwed
But he IS believed to have close links to at least one terrorist.
/End Qoute


So, if I know someone that is a criminal, that makes me a criminal and subject to the same penalties?

Johny Traffic 07-23-2005 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
So everyone is fair game huh? People jump the turnstiles in NYC subways daily. I guess "shoot to kill" should be the order of the day for the transit police.

If you leave a known terrorist suspects house. Go to the subway on a coat in the middle of summer. If when confronted by police you ignore them and jump the barrier, if the when the armed police chase you and you dont stop. If then when 7 arm police men say "stop or we will shoot" you still run in a known terrorist target area, you stll fail to stop.

Then yes expect to be shot. Clear enough?

By the way how many suspects were shot by US police last year compared to UK police. When your record is 10% as good as ours please come back and feel free to post

cambaby 07-23-2005 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
So everyone is fair game huh? People jump the turnstiles in NYC subways daily. I guess "shoot to kill" should be the order of the day for the transit police.

Yes if there had been 6 major terrorist attacks on those subways(3 happend on 7/7 and 3 failed on 7/21).
Do you really err on the side of lawlessness?

Those policemen were well within the boundaries of the law, they have a job to protect the general public as a whole which is not outwieghed by your individual rights. When policemen and those that are legally enforcing LAWS tell you to stop, you stop plain and simple. Anything after you disobey them happens to you it is YOUR fault 99.9% of the time plain and simple.

thaifan99 07-23-2005 05:11 PM

Wonder what will happen to the guys who try get in an aircraft cockpit in USA in future?

After all they are just confused foreigners who dont speak english well and were just dying for a piss after getting on a plane for a pleasant flight.

Next time - will the air marshall politely request that they sit down?

Gunni 07-23-2005 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
They had him down. 5 cops on him, then they shot him. That is acceptable I guess.

Yet this isn't.

No they didn't, there were not 5 cops on him, again, are you just making things up?

Yes, that is very tragic with the little girl, but no, I don't blame the police, they have to defend them selfs if some one shoots at them.

Johny Traffic 07-23-2005 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cambaby
Yes if there had been 6 major terrorist attacks on those subways(3 happend on 7/7 and 3 failed on 7/21).
Do you really err on the side of lawlessness?

Those policemen were well within the boundaries of the law, they have a job to protect the general public as a whole which is not outwieghed by your individual rights. When policemen and those that are legally enforcing LAWS tell you to stop, you stop plain and simple. Anything after you disobey them happens to you it is YOUR fault 99.9% of the time plain and simple.

exactly :2 cents:

Relish XXX 07-23-2005 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaifan99
Wonder what will happen to the guys who try get in an aircraft cockpit in USA in future?

After all they are just confused foreigners who dont speak english well and were just dying for a piss after getting on a plane for a pleasant flight.

Next time - will the air marshall politely request that they sit down?

I here that happens all the time in NYC. Heaven forbid the pilot pulls out a gun and wastes them.

Gunni 07-23-2005 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
So, if I know someone that is a criminal, that makes me a criminal and subject to the same penalties?

If you come out of your criminals friends house, the police starts chasing you, tells you to stop your they will shoot and you disobey, then yes, you deserve to be shot! The police are there for a reason, they didn't simply shoot the man just for fun, are you really this blind, or is this some old biker attitude that the "man" is always in the wrong, and everybody should just be able to brake all rules and what ever.

For a man your age you sound like some stupid rebellious teenager

Relish XXX 07-23-2005 05:21 PM

1) He was wearing a padded jacket in the middle of a heat wave.
2) His address was foundin documents in one of the rucsacks from the lasting bombings.
3) When approached by the police and asked to stop he fled.
4) He vaulted a ticket barrier and was trying to get onto a train.
5) He knows exactly what is happening in London at the moment.

He couldnt have tried harder to get shot.

Johny Traffic 07-23-2005 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relish XXX
1) He was wearing a padded jacket in the middle of a heat wave.
2) His address was foundin documents in one of the rucsacks from the lasting bombings.
3) When approached by the police and asked to stop he fled.
4) He vaulted a ticket barrier and was trying to get onto a train.
5) He knows exactly what is happening in London at the moment.

He couldnt have tried harder to get shot.

99% of people agree with points 1-5

This chump was lucky he didnt get shot earlier

Relish XXX 07-23-2005 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johny Traffic
99% of people agree with points 1-5

This chump was lucky he didnt get shot earlier

I just dont understand how other people in this thread cant see why he got shot dead.

Johny Traffic 07-23-2005 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relish XXX
I just dont understand how other people in this thread cant see why he got shot dead.

Political correctnes?

Relish XXX 07-23-2005 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johny Traffic
Political correctnes?

I think they argue for the sake of an arguement. Seems like they arent really speaking up now after the facts were laid out to them with pictures. Pictures always help children read and understand.

baddog 07-23-2005 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cambaby
Those policemen were well within the boundaries of the law, they have a job to protect the general public as a whole which is not outwieghed by your individual rights. When policemen and those that are legally enforcing LAWS tell you to stop, you stop plain and simple. Anything after you disobey them happens to you it is YOUR fault 99.9% of the time plain and simple.


So, if LAPD chases you thru 3 cities, they have the right to blow your brains out at the end of the chase?

Sweet.

Relish XXX 07-23-2005 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
So, if LAPD chases you thru 3 cities, they have the right to blow your brains out at the end of the chase?

Sweet.

If you are not an idiot you dont get shot. Why would an innocent person run through 3 cities? Innocent people tend to talk to the police.

BlueDesignStudios 07-23-2005 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relish XXX
1) He was wearing a padded jacket in the middle of a heat wave.
2) His address was foundin documents in one of the rucsacks from the lasting bombings.
3) When approached by the police and asked to stop he fled.
4) He vaulted a ticket barrier and was trying to get onto a train.
5) He knows exactly what is happening in London at the moment.

He couldnt have tried harder to get shot.

and he 'looked like a terrorist' I think that would be a contributing factor :)

Screaming 07-23-2005 08:06 PM

tough call there

Gunni 07-23-2005 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
So, if LAPD chases you thru 3 cities, they have the right to blow your brains out at the end of the chase?

Sweet.

Wouldn't they be out of their jurisdiction by then?

hehe, I've never seen you make your self look so bad, I don't think I've seen anyone make them selfs look so bad actually.
You actually make a better job of it than Jay did...

cambaby 07-23-2005 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
So, if LAPD chases you thru 3 cities, they have the right to blow your brains out at the end of the chase?

Sweet.

How many people did you endanger during that 3 city chase? Are you a wanted criminal? Did you just come from a bank that was robbed? Did you attempt to grab a little girl before the police caught you? Come on man this is just common sense you are simply being argumentative or ignorant. Normally baddog I give creedence(sp) to what you have to say but you are dead wrong here. No pun intended.

Pleasurepays 07-23-2005 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog
Tell me, how different to things have to get before it is acceptable to have someone down on the ground and it be perfectly acceptable to shoot him 5 times?

STOP WITH ALL THE STUPID FUCKING REMARKS AND HYPOTHETICAL IDIOCY ALREADY.

we get it! you have no trust for authority. why not just state that simple, obvious truth and stop the ignorance?

the facts so far seem to be that a guy was leaving a house already under surveilence in connection to the first bombings and matched the description of one of the bombing suspects - he was followed by several police. they saw him behaving erradically, they said he had what appeared to be a bomb (wires and something bulky under his jacket - also supported by witnesses) - he was ordered to stop - he ran AND SINCE YOU STILL DONT FUCKING GET IT - THERE IS NOT REALLY TOO MANY CHOICES. IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE A GUY IS ABOUT TO BLOW HIMSELF UP AND SEE EVIDENCE OF IT AND HE BOLTS FOR A TRAIN FULL OF PEOPLE AFTER BEING TOLD TO STOP - YOU KILL THE FUCKER!!!! END OF STORY.

czarkazm 07-23-2005 09:26 PM

thanks for the psych-ops exercise alexg, you're obviously smarter than the brain dead goys on GFY.

Note my username.

baddog 07-23-2005 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cambaby
How many people did you endanger during that 3 city chase?


In a high speed chase, dozens if not hundreds are put at risk, do they have the right to execute him at the end of the chase? If not, why not?

And you do not understand at all why I am making the comments I have made . . . . and seem to have missed every other cop vs the criminal thread I have participated in.


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