iBanker

We all know how shitty chargebacks can be for both affiliates and programs the same. I would like to know what other people think about a response like this, and the possible effectiveness of it:

Dear Mr. XXXXXXXX,

You are receiving this email because of your successful attempt to chargeback a transaction made on blackdickswhitechicks.com. Your IP address of XX.XXX.XXX.XXX is an exact match based on location for XXXX XXXXX Rd, North Carolina, 28105. If you were unhappy with the service provided to you by that website, we would be happy to give you a CREDIT on the purchase, back to your checking account.

You have decided to chargeback the item instead, claiming it was a fraudulent transaction. Our systems and FIT (Fraud Investigation Team) have flagged your dispute as inaccurate. We are informing you of this in advance to try and resolve this matter amicably. We are offering you a credit on the account, which would require you to return to your bank and cancel the chargeback.

If you chose not to cancel the chargeback, and remain under the claim that this was not a valid transaction, we will peruse a fraud investigation against you through the use of our attorneys, and state and federal court. Convictions of such offenses could cost you a minimum fine of $5,000.00 and 6-12 months imprisonment.

Please work with us on this matter, and it will be solved immediately. You will have to respond to this email with your intentions for us not to peruse legal action against you.

Sincerely,

JSA Media Group, Inc.



It is sad that the people who buy from the industry have learned they can chargeback almost anything, and too often programs flirt with that upper 1% where the gray line become black. Something need to be done about it.

PS. Im new here, so hi everyone.

Fake Nick

hahahaha! ! you are going to threaten people that do a chargeback with jail time ? ? ? ?

polish_aristocrat

Sounds like a good idea, but I am not a lawyer.

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I don't use ICQ anymore.

NaughtyAlysha

I would at least fix the spelling errors... Not busting your chops, just want to make sure it sounds as professional as possible.

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iBanker

All joking aside, it is still fraud, even if it is only for 3.95, right?

Lane

If your lawyer approves it, why not..

By the way, as far as I know, you are not allowed to go after chargebacks with many third party CC processors.

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iBanker

Def. fix the spelling errors, I just typed it quick, sorry about that.

Snake Doctor

That is correct.
If you have your own merchant account you can take legal action against them, but not if you use an IPSP.

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iBanker

Well, I called WTS, and spoke with Andy, and he told me that they would have no problem with something like that.

I can only assume that CCBill and Paycom would be the same. And seeing that we are getting our own merchant account here in 3-5 weeks (we already applied for it), I figured I should learn as much about it as possible until then.

iBanker

Well isn't the chargeback dispute a bank issue, not a processor issue? By that I mean, our bank and the individuals bank who signed up?

Thanks for the imput by the way!

SmokeyTheBear

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xclusive

Welcome to GFY and great first post now

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NaughtyAlysha

A few ideas, lol...

Let them know that you've logged every link they viewed on the site, and that you will forward your logs to the credit card issuing bank with sample images of what they've viewed.

Tell them that you will add their information to the "National Negative Database" which tracks known fraudulent internet purchasers, and that they may soon find themselves unable to make purchases online.

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NichePay_Manny

Plz let us know after you check with youre lawyers if you can say all that in youre letter.I am with you people think they can call they credit card company and do a charge backs all the time .And usually is the same set of croud. babys

iBanker

bite me and merry christmas to you too

iBanker

That's great advice, thanks a lot! I have to look that up now...

ztik

As far as I know you can't "cancel" and chargeback.

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iBanker

I just got off the phone with her (my attorney) and she got it in her email and read it. She feels like the proper intent is there, just not the right verbage. She is going to write another one, so she can bill us $250, and get back to me.

iwantchixx

wow, threatening people who charge back. stick it to em!

iBanker

Yeah cancel is the wrong word, my bank says that an individual would reverse an affidavit on his own. Although she said that it rarely happens.

ADL_JD

I have some experience in this and it just doesn't work. Once they have charged back it is really difficult. The best thing to do is try to manage it before they chargeback... obviously much easier to do if you have your own merchant account.

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NaughtyAlysha

Well, I just made that up (National Negative Database), but it sounded good. Maybe it'll scare someone into reversing the chargeback.

In all honesty, though... We've had a few chargebacks that we've disputed and won. We thoroughly check our logs, IP's, CVV2 input, AVS matches, etc., and if we feel that they are trying to charge back a legitimate transaction, we'll request an investigation and reversal.

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sean416

I think its a good idea, but its a little harsh. Definitely hit em hard and let them know how serious this is, but you want to end the email on a more positive note. Also, what about the people who found out they're 14 yr old son stole their credit card and signed up for the site so they did a chargeback, now they're getting threatned with legal action and possible jail time? There are honest people out there who do chargebacks, I would include something that wouldnt offend those people like...

"If you feel this has been a mistake for any reason, please feel free to contact us directly to dicuss the matter"

Or I dunno, something along those lines. It's just all in all, that email seemed like a big "FUCK YOU WERE GONNA SUE YOU" and it would probably piss off a lot of people. If you let them know its serious, but lighten up a little.. people may be more recpetive in resolving the issue.

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SmokeyTheBear

How about this..

Dear XXXXX,

Recently a member of your household purchased a XXX PORN membership. Our records show the transaction details as follows.


Joe Blow
321 cherry street
IP # 127.0.0.1 ( aol time warner cable systems )

Our credit card company has recieved a request for a refund for *FRAUD*

State law requires us to contact police fraud investigators to seize the computer that was involved in the fraudulant purchase ip # 127.0.0.1

If the purchase was not fraud or may have been attempted by a person in your own household , please contact us immedietly to prevent the seizure of your computer.

Filing a false fraud report can bring up to 20 years in prison.

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Paco, of Large Cash.

LOL ... more balls than I have.

We actually have a very low CB ratio, but for the meat sticks:
I merely remind the subscriber that they are 'in breach of the terms (provide link and specific text) and as a result their information will be added to a database so to flag them as problematic. As a result, purchases to any of our, and chances are (key words) other adult sites will be refused.
The above is in place to protect us from fraudulent activities as such?.

I find that once they hear that they MAY NOT be able to pleasure themselves with the specific card number they quickly drop their goo-spitter and reverse or cancel the CB.

I do not like to pull out the lawyer threat ? I hate lawyers, so why use them to my advantage.

iBanker

Thank Yeah, I'm always being told to lighten up, funny, the other day we had this old, and I mean OLD lady call in cause her grandson used her CC to sign up for a site of ours, the kid was 14 and used the user name HammerCock, with a password anal69...... obviously we helped her out, thats different, I know things like that will happen even if our best efforts are put out.

My gut tells me that 99% of our industry chargebacks are just dirtbags that think they can beat the system. It like the resaurant business where people eat the whole steak but one bite and then return it saying it was overcooked. BS.

But back to the chargeback, its not fun hitting up an affiliate on ICQ and letting him know that one of his revshare sales of 20.97 isn't gonna count cause of it, and that dropped him to 82 bucks for the pay period and he is not gonna get a check cause he is under the $100 minimum. I think we'll make the exception and send it out anyhow, hey, its Christmas.

iBanker

Wow, I thought ours was harsh....you rule. Want a job? lol

iBanker

Good advice too, I think if I were to implement a little bit of everyones info, we would have a pretty bitchin letter. I'd be happy to and then have it review for legality and then post it here for general use. Thanks everyone.

BlueQuartz

you will qwikly learn this guy is 18yo and a fuckign idiot

robfantasy

if someone knows how to chargeback your scare tactics will not work.

if you are causing massive amounts of chargebacks and base your business model around reversing chargebacks you wont be in business to long.

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iBanker

So be it if he is, I've been lurking on this board long enough to know who is packing what, and who just doesn't have a clue...

Everyone here knows.

imageman

I agree, get legal advice and then do it. Its about time webmasters did something to stop these asswipes.

Semi-Retired-Dave

As funny as it may sound. I like this. May I use it.

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dcortez

The issue is a 'no-brainer' for truly fraudulent 'customers'.

BUT, you better have a lawyer explain your legal exposure, should any of your facts be wrong or should you cause any actionable damages by sending the letter.

eg. You send the letter to the wrong person (if they can spoof IP's, addresses, especially for stolen CCs are even easier to fake).

eg. The customer's spouse (not related to the transaction) gets the letter and has a heart attack or stroke, or uses it in a divorce settlement resulting in huge losses.

eg. The letter gets discovered at work and a substantial job/contract is lost - worth much more than 1000 times your membership fee.

I believe that cheaters should be held accountable, but let's not get sloppy and wreckless in the heat of the moment.

It's always easy to jump on the 'posse bandwagon' and unfortunately, it usually takes an innocent victim to sober everyone up into a more considered approach.

Frankly, for those of you (and I'm not suggesting anyone in particular) who lack the ethics and respect for your visitors, by trying to cheat/bypass their popup blocker settings, and whine you get cheated back, STFU!



-Dino

lloyd

or better yet address it to Mrs.. even if you get stuck with the chargeback at least if there is a wife/mother in the household you'll have the satisfaction of knowing the probably got their ass kicked

villageidiot

[QUOTE=NaughtyAlysha]Well, I just made that up (National Negative Database), but it sounded good. Maybe it'll scare someone into reversing the chargeback.

QUOTE]

why don't you register www.nationalnegativedatabase.org, and put that URL in your letter, and when they go to the site, have one of those IP checker scripts on there that says, "Your IP is xxx.xxxx.xxx, and you are in City, State. Your account is currently pending an investigation with XXX.com porn company, because you have allegedly fraudulently charged back access to porn content... bla bla bla" you get the idea.

LOL

i am not a lawyer. doing this could get you into big trouble for all i know... but i do think it would be funny. it's probably a really bad idea. don't do it. LOL

-vi

V_RocKs

How about these apples...

I think iBanker should come on GFY and say, "I need some CB enforcement in NY, anyone can help?" Then 3 webmasters respond saying, "FUCK YEAH!"

Then those three go to the assholes house and ask him what the fuck is up at 7pm while he is having dinner with his family. Then they call his ass repeatedly and eventually he reverses it.

If this was being done nationwide, this kinda shit would stop.

escorpio

Brilliant!

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Major (Tom)

i definatley think there is a clause in the contract with your biller that you cannot go after people for such things.

Duke

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d00t

Why the heck did you charge back anyway?

I have been on the borderline of jailtime for fraud, chargebacks and I've worked for a very large credit corporation that handles these exact types of disputes. By charging back a real purchase you are only putting yourself at a greater risk of being screwed by the "system".

Some points of interest:

- Your bank will charge you for wasting their time if the dispute is ever resolved in the merchants favor. And give you a bad rep with your bank. If the amount is high and you don't do enough business with them (100k+/year) - wave your credit line with that instituion goodbye.
- You will be blacklisted with the merchant and the merchants bank.
- The merchant can fight the chargeback if they want, it does take time and money on their end to do so - and if they are right... their jail time threat is not so outragous.
- People do go to jail for chargebacks, you are essentially stealing money back from them.
- Someone has to pay the bill at the end of the day... guess who it will be if you are found to be in the wrong? Imagine 10 fraud agents were investigating it over 2 months, add private detectives costs... time wastage... not to mention legal outgoings, credit card companies time... then the government will whack their fee for wasting their time in court.

I'm sorry, but if you charged back an amount for the sake of doing so even though you knowingly made the transaction - I hope you get what you deserve. Stealing is a crime. Fraud is a federal offense.

iBanker

If you were referring to my letter, you can use it, although if you wait a bit, I'll post a reviewable copy from my attorney once done

iBanker

I'll run that scenario by the attorney as well, although I don't think the Board of Directors here will approve it....lol

iBanker

I totally agree with you, but there is the right way to do something, the wrong way, and the legal way. Right now I'm focused on the legal way.

SinBucks

Welcome to the board!

Phoenix

it would be nice to see the 3rd party procesors going after false chargebacks.
a collection agency could be formed as well.

all done by the book and totally legit, people would eventually figure out that charging back is not a good idea either. in a year or two of course.

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Wiggles

great info mate, thanks for the post

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NETbilling

Many of our merchants try to recover lost sales to chargebacks and have about a 30% success rate. We are glad to show them how.

Mitch

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Mitch Farber
CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

iBanker

Thanks man!

iBanker

Hey Mitch,

That is exactly why we just applied for a merchant account with you! How can I get a status update on our application? 4-6 weeks seemed like a long time.

The application is under JSA Media Group, Inc.

NETbilling

Hi,

Actually I just checked with Erin in merchant services and she verified that the app was faxed to us from you last Thursday (December 16th) and missing statements whcih you supplied to us last Friday (December 17th). We received the original from you this past Tuesday (December 21) and it was sent to the bank for approval yesterday and is in progress. Of course, not much will happen over the holidays at the banks as you probably would imagine.

Be sure to stop by our booth at Internext so we can meet. We will also be speaking at both processing seminars.

Thank you, Mitch Farber

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Mitch Farber
CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!