Epassporte problem!!!! - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

cool1g · 08-21-2004, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
We don't seize, we return.

Good afternoon

DamageX - that is from page 2 of this thread....that comment is in response to what happens to other funds in the account that are legit...

DamageX · 08-21-2004, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cool1g
DamageX - that is from page 2 of this thread....that comment is in response to what happens to other funds in the account that are legit...

Not necessarily. She never specified what funds they return, she may as well have referred to the fraudulently used funds.

DamageX · 08-21-2004, 07:46 PM

Well, since this thread seems to have been abandoned by epassporte staff, here's a fresh one for you:

http://board.gofuckyourself.com/show...adid=344528&s=

Those of you who want an answer to these questions, please keep bumping it. Thanks.

SureFire · 08-21-2004, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KCat
Hey! Somebody replied without insulting me. Thanks!

I absolutely agree. Any legit money from other sponsors etc. should be returned to you after allowing a reasonable period of time to investigate the fraud.

Everyone seems to be jumping to the conclusion that this isn't the case.

KK said she was gone for the night. I know it's easy for me to say chill out & wait for an official response when it's not my money on the line, but...chill out! Or email her directly:

I do not have an account with them, but reading this thread makes me wonder why they would freeze all monies. Last I heard only the IRS, CIA, FBI and homeland security were I reside

spacemonk · 08-21-2004, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DamageX
Not necessarily. She never specified what funds they return, she may as well have referred to the fraudulently used funds.

Exactly

I hope someone from epassporte replies to this thread again

All people are asking for is a simpe explanation.

digifan · 08-21-2004, 08:01 PM

Kimmy will be back... like she told it. You can trust her.

SmokeyTheBear · 08-21-2004, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cool1g
DamageX - that is from page 2 of this thread....that comment is in response to what happens to other funds in the account that are legit...

actually she just avoided the question entirely..

The question was if i had 50 grand in my account ( as a domain seller ) and i sell 1 domain to a guy who funded his account with a fraud cc , will epassporte seize my 50 grand...

She then went on to say she would seize the account and all account associated with the fraud.. She however did not say what happens to the 50grand , she made a blanket statement about "it being returned to the owner " but seeing as how the owners account is seized how are they supposed to get the money ??

Basically its like you own a store that sells one item * tshirts , so epassporte informs you someone bought one of the t-shirts with a fraud cc account so they are suspending the 1 tshirt transaction and seizing all the money you ever made regardless of who it came from or why ( god forbid it might even be a russian ) so now you owe money for ink tshirts affiliates etc etc etc..

When your a bank its no big deal to say " ah dont worry about it we are investigating it and will let you know when we might reurn your money "

Show me any business that can simply ignore a month's worth of GROSS INCOME for any period of time.. People have bills, even the big boys have bills and they count on return profit to fund things like advertising , software , hardware etc etc

I dont know why i have to keep giving you examples to make it clear for you, but imagine this.

Your a landlord the cops show up at your door and inform you that last month one of your tenants robbed a store and paid his rent with the proceeds of his crime, so they take his money and all the other tenants money kick everyone out of their homes that paid rent for the month and held all your money pending further investigation.. Im sure you would be thanking the police for "helping out "

cool1g · 08-21-2004, 08:44 PM

i don't have any personal experience with ePassport so i can't comment directly.... obviously it would suck to have legitimate funds tied up due to one jerk sending you fradulently obtained monies. i guess that's the risk one takes nowadays by dealing with this method of moving monies versus wire transfers or checks.

SpeakEasy · 08-21-2004, 10:36 PM

Bump for a possible reply from epassporte ?

KCat · 08-21-2004, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DamageX
As long as they are avoiding to answer, this ISN'T the case. I am a customer of theirs, the question has been asked by several customers of theirs before I asked it and before KimmyKim decided having fun was more important than addressing the issue at hand. Stop siding with them for a second and try looking at it from our point of view.

Yup, you absoutely deserve a simple answer in black & white.

Unfortunately this thread has become so full of accusations & insult hurling, the question of "when are legitimate funds returned to the account holder" has become muddled.

I'll bump your new thread on Monday if you don't get a weekend answer.

motos · 08-22-2004, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
This is my last answer for the afternoon, and I will address anything else that I think needs to be addressed later in the weekend, since I've already said I'm leaving for the afternoon.

1. Our contract is with damcash when they are the ones funding their webmaster payouts. Our contract is not with their affiliates when the money in question is theirs. Perhaps their affiliates should have made better choices in sponsors, but that's not my call. Frankly until all this started, I'd never heard of damcash. I'm not sure how this represses anyone, but I'll think about it.

2. How would you know that they specifically started out with a non-Russian address and then changed their address to Russia? I'm not racist and I can't see how someone could be aware of the specifics as to their account unless they were somehow involved with the folks at damcash.

3. This is untrue.

4. As both Rand and I have stated, we do not discuss specifics of accounts publicly with anyone, and we only discuss them privately with the account holders. I'm checking my email and I don't see anything from any of you at the moment. Motos emailed me, I told him that he would have to deal with risk managment on this issue repeatedly. If risk management has talked to him repeatedly, then he simply refuses to accept the answer that he has been given and there's nothing I can do to change that situation.

Rand also told motos if he'd like his account details made public, then all he needs to do is say so, and we'll find someone -- not me or Rand, most likely -- who can accomodate him.

So, post on, I'll be back. Of course there is still not one email from any of you that claim to be innocently affected by this in my mail box at this moment, so that tells me alot.

to Rand

Please make my business account details public (i mean member id Noganka, partnership Damcash). I am not against any way of understanding the situation particularly!

Theo · 08-22-2004, 01:07 AM

Motos, what was the primary reason that made you change your address? Common sense tells me that even if it's legit, it will create questions at that point of time.

Epassporte should protect those receiving money. I understand reversing such payment and closing accounts after multiple cases of receiving fraud money, but I fail to see the logic after that. Any account holder can receive such payment and a single event is not enough to judge someone.

Suppose an account is frozen after such event, does the balance becomes available (minus the fraud transaction) after some time or is kept by epassporte?

motos · 08-22-2004, 01:10 AM

Is it true that E-Passporte uses SKNANB.com , St.Kitts National Bank for operations?
The same bank Glo-bill was relying on?

Good to know that our funds are always "safe".
And good to know that Russia is in Your black list. Funny to mention though, that St.Kitts itself (and unlike Russia) is in international banking black lists worldwide.

motos · 08-22-2004, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
Motos, what was the primary reason that made you change your address? Common sense tells me that even if it's legit, it will create questions at that point of time.

Epassporte should protect those receiving money. I understand reversing such payment and closing accounts after multiple cases of receiving fraud money, but I fail to see the logic after that. Any account holder can receive such payment and a single event is not enough to judge someone.

Suppose an account is frozen after such event, does the balance becomes available (minus the fraud transaction) after some time or is kept by epassporte?

My address was changed because of a mistake of my secretary .in the agreement he wrote address where the company was registered but not the factual address of the company!

P.S. how can you accuse Damcash in fraud if we even dont require in receving bank transfers from you. we only deal with intersystem operations made by epass.

DamageX · 08-22-2004, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KCat
Yup, you absoutely deserve a simple answer in black & white.

Unfortunately this thread has become so full of accusations & insult hurling, the question of "when are legitimate funds returned to the account holder" has become muddled.

No, it hasn't. It has become avoided. Several people raised the issue before I started persuing an answer and while KimmyKim was already here and answering questions. She never bothered to answer this, and to me this is a serious issue of customer neglect. Not that epassporte has the best reputation when it comes to customer support, but then again I've never needed support either. However, NOW I want a fucking answer, and I think that, as a loyal customer, I'm entitled to it.

Quote:

Originally posted by KCat
I'll bump your new thread on Monday if you don't get a weekend answer.

Thanks, appreciate it.

Lanoy · 08-22-2004, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
As I said, I have nothing against Russians.

I've been in this business on the processing side for nearly 5 years now, and it's always the same thing. Cheaters think that if they keep on crying about the fact they were caught cheating, their accounts will either be re-instated or they will get some answers that allow them to develop better methods to attempt to cheat.

Hey. You just named us cheaters. How the person can be a cheater while making ZERO transactions.
I'm very sorry to tell this, but in the current situation - epassporte is a cheater. Epassporte is playing very strange game.

BTW now I understand why my account was closed. I've opened it through DAMCASH. BUT TELL ME WHY!!!!! EPASSPORTE TEAM CAN'T TELL ME THE REASONE why my account was closed. WHY should I read postings on GFY to get the full picture?

PS.
And once more Kimmykim personally promised to check my problem and write back. But I still don't have a reply.

goBigtime · 08-22-2004, 05:31 AM

Tipsy · 08-22-2004, 06:33 AM

Just as a side note...I know that PayPal close accounts with little reason and at the drop of a hat etc etc and they seem to have the same support in this situation as epassporte i.e. more or less none, however...

I have to use PayPal on a couple of non-adult projects I'm involved in simply because it would lose business not to. Obviously I take a risk just by using paypal but am prepared to accept that and keep no significant funds in the account 'just in case'. To the point - I recently received my first 'fraudulent transaction' via PayPal. PayPal DIDN'T close my account. Instead I received a nice, professionally written e-mail explaining that they'd had to reverse the fraudulent transaction and advising me not to ship any goods to that person. They also asked for a little more info on the account which I happily provided and received a prompt, hand-written (ie no bot mail) response thanking me for my help.

Now...if even PayPal can do this (and let's face it for the most part paypal really do suck) why does it seem to be impossible for epassporte to do too?

I've been toying with the idea on an epassporte account for ages but never bothered as in the past the direct join approach would never work for UK accounts (ie the small test load never shows as it's never truly debited). However, the inability to answer simple questions is very worrying so I don't think I'll bother just yet.

Worth asking again in the vain hope somebody is professional enough to actually answer a very simple and very important question that's now been repeated by many people....

If an account closed for receiving money from a previously unkown fraudulent account (or in this case it seems it's actually for being created by an account that received money from a fraudulent account - so is even further removed) what the hell happens to any 'non-fraudulent' funds in that account. Are they returned to the ACCOUNT HOLDER and if so when?

Even PayPal usually eventually return frozen funds if the funds are not fraudulent, sometimes fairly quickly too if you pressure them enough.

greenlab · 08-22-2004, 07:04 AM

I dont wanna take DamCash side, however there are some strange facts going on :

Sponsor accounts (Business accounts) cand only be funded by wire transfers, this meaning the the funds are available on epassporte bank account, before they enter the system and can not be fraudulent.

Also, a Sponsor account (Business Account) can also receive transfers from another Business Account (B2B). However sice all Business Accounts can only be funded by wire transfers, i dont see how fraud cand take place....

Note that a Business Account CAN NOT receive funds from personal/associate accounts ! (p2b)

Nautilus · 08-22-2004, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by motos
Is it true that E-Passporte uses SKNANB.com , St.Kitts National Bank for operations?
The same bank Glo-bill was relying on?

Good to know that our funds are always "safe".
And good to know that Russia is in Your black list. Funny to mention though, that St.Kitts itself (and unlike Russia) is in international banking black lists worldwide.

Do not make situation any worse for you.

There have been enough people who stood up for your cause in this thread; questions have been perfectly phrased and addressed to EP support stuff. Now just wait for them to anwser.

If they'll be answered in a manner everyone expect them to you and your affiliates will get your money back except for the funds transferred from a fraudulent account(s).

But posting private info you're not supposed to know on a public board could be a reason of itself for blocking account (I'm sure there is a clause in their TOS to support that).

So for now just shut up and wait till Monday. They WILL HAVE to answer one way or the other if they do not want their reputation damaged beyond repair; too many people who're interested to listen for what they have to say on that one.

Nautilus · 08-22-2004, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by greenlab
I dont wanna take DamCash side, however there are some strange facts going on :

Sponsor accounts (Business accounts) cand only be funded by wire transfers, this meaning the the funds are available on epassporte bank account, before they enter the system and can not be fraudulent.

Also, a Sponsor account (Business Account) can also receive transfers from another Business Account (B2B). However sice all Business Accounts can only be funded by wire transfers, i dont see how fraud cand take place....

Note that a Business Account CAN NOT receive funds from personal/associate accounts ! (p2b)

Their rep said p2b is possible: "p2b requires the use of the ePpurchase interface to process, but if you are using that there is no problem with the transaction."

Orga · 08-22-2004, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by greenlab
I dont wanna take DamCash side, however there are some strange facts going on :

Sponsor accounts (Business accounts) cand only be funded by wire transfers, this meaning the the funds are available on epassporte bank account, before they enter the system and can not be fraudulent.

Also, a Sponsor account (Business Account) can also receive transfers from another Business Account (B2B). However sice all Business Accounts can only be funded by wire transfers, i dont see how fraud cand take place....

Note that a Business Account CAN NOT receive funds from personal/associate accounts ! (p2b)

You're right dude. How i can belive in fraud if it cant be by terms?

greenlab · 08-22-2004, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nautilus
Their rep said p2b is possible: "p2b requires the use of the ePpurchase interface to process, but if you are using that there is no problem with the transaction."

ePpurchase , witch takes a 18% comission it's smth like a shopping cart/credit card processing solution, and if fraud occurs, it will result in chargebacks and not in a closed business account and all affiliates accounts, witch are actualy standalone accounts, paid by affiliates..the sponsors only create this accouns for and in the name of the affiliates, at affiliates instructions...as they have to pay for it and also the affiliate account is in his own name, where is is fully responsable for his actions only, and not for the actions of the people that send him money..this is epassporte business to prevent fraudulent money to enter the system.

However, i am 99% sure that DamCash was not selling website memberships via epassporte.....

P.S. SKNAB Bank is not PRIVATE information...the name of the bank is written on the back of the card , as per Visa regulations.....
The fact that GloBill used SKNAB to process transactions is not private information either, as it was public from Globill and become ever more popular when Globill went down...

Chris Mallick · 08-22-2004, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spacemonk
Very interesting read, I must say.

So DamCash might have been doing something illegal and ePassporte has every right to freeze their account if they have a reason to suspect fraud.

The part that worries all of us here is what looks like a systematic avoidance of answering a simple question that smokey da bear and a few other people here asked.

I like epassporte and use it almost on a daily basis.
I also think that epoch/paycom is a stand up business, however this kind of stuff makes people worry.

I symphatise with all the epassporte peeps that posted here, and can only imagine what pain in the ass dealing with fraudulent individuals/companies on a daily basis must be.

I can also imagine how it must feel to be called out by the same people on public boards and having to explain why this and that had to be done.

However, a lot of people that posted in this thread are honest and legit customers of yours and I think they should be given straight answers despite the frustration some other people caused you here. You are professionals and there is no place for personal feelings here ;)

Smokey rephrased and even further simplified a very simple question over 4 times, yet the question remains unanswered...

So let me join smokey, freeadultcontent and others on this one:

If i have $1000 in my account that are 100% clean,
and If someone sends $50 of stolen money to that account then
those $50 will be reversed and i will get my legit $1000 back?

Yes

or

No

Thank you

OK, really, the last post, but a simple and fair question that deserves an answer (although I thought it had been answered).

Spacemonk: The answer in your example is ?Yes? and in a few days, not 180 DamageX.

Your account may not be closed as a result of getting a payment from one fraud transaction, in your narrow example, just suspended. In that case the $50 is returned to the CC up the chain, no matter how far we have to go back; the $1000 is either left for your reactivated account or it is wired back to you or a check is mailed or UPS'd, depending on what you want.

If anyone here wants any money back that is on his or her account, let us know ? you have access at all times. We do not keep any funds anyway under any circumstance. We do not keep cardholder funds in any bank account we control in any way, nor do we spend, or count as ours, any funds that are seized. Those funds are returned to the rightful owner. The problem in this thread is that some people are trying to get information to continue or amend their scam by creating the false appearance that we are stealing funds or acting irresponsibly.

To help you all understand, here is a short version of our business model: We make money when funds are loaded, or sent in a P2P transaction. Therefore, we are fully driven towards use and functionality for you, our cardholder. We do not charge a monthly fee or a Use Fee, like many other cards. We do not make money on float (funds held in accounts), ePassporte funds that are loaded on to your account are not within our control; rather a trust bank holds them waiting for a call from Visa Interchange or the cardholder at an ATM or you asking for a wire, then the cash is moved to cover that transaction.

Spacemonk asked a simple question and maybe others have as well and if we were not answering this question I am sorry for the prior confusion.

From an industry point of view I think that we are lucky to have ePassporte; its success has been in large part due to the Adult Webmaster community accepting the product and using it. Sure we make money, however the investment in the technology and the time it takes and took to work with banks, etc was very costly. We expect to make a profit, just like anyone else. Neither ePassporte nor EPOCH will abandon this market, as did Pay Pal and others. However, we run the risk as an industry of hurting ourselves from within by constantly having these public discussions where accusations of theft or fraud are relentless, even after an answer is given and a solution, such as "write to me" is offered. Let?s just be aware that we have a great product run by honest people and just like everything else, a few idiots will screw it up for the rest of us. Believe me: There is fraud in every product like ePassporte - Visa or otherwise. When we catch it we are going to be as aggressive as possible, to protect our brand and to ensure our ability to continue offering alternative payment methods and vehicles to this industry.

To those of you (4 so far) that wrote to me, I have replied to each of you that I will have details to you tomorrow.

C

PS: St. Kitts Nevis Anguilla National Bank is an excellent bank and it is not on ANY list as some idiot posted.

Nautilus · 08-22-2004, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by greenlab
ePpurchase , witch takes a 18% comission it's smth like a shopping cart/credit card processing solution, and if fraud occurs, it will result in chargebacks and not in a closed business account and all affiliates accounts, witch are actualy standalone accounts, paid by affiliates..the sponsors only create this accouns for and in the name of the affiliates, at affiliates instructions...as they have to pay for it and also the affiliate account is in his own name, where is is fully responsable for his actions only, and not for the actions of the people that send him money..this is epassporte business to prevent fraudulent money to enter the system.

However, i am 99% sure that DamCash was not selling website memberships via epassporte.....

P.S. SKNAB Bank is not PRIVATE information...the name of the bank is written on the back of the card , as per Visa regulations.....
The fact that GloBill used SKNAB to process transactions is not private information either, as it was public from Globill and become ever more popular when Globill went down...

The whole thing looks even more misterious to me now... What fraud have they commited then, if they weren't even phisycally able to?

Hope EP can get it all cleared.

SmokeyTheBear · 08-22-2004, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Mallick
OK, really, the last post, but a simple and fair question that deserves an answer (although I thought it had been answered).

Spacemonk: The answer in your example is ?Yes? and in a few days, not 180 DamageX.

Your account may not be closed as a result of getting a payment from one fraud transaction, in your narrow example, just suspended. In that case the $50 is returned to the CC up the chain, no matter how far we have to go back; the $1000 is either left for your reactivated account or it is wired back to you or a check is mailed or UPS'd, depending on what you want.

If anyone here wants any money back that is on his or her account, let us know ? you have access at all times. We do not keep any funds anyway under any circumstance. We do not keep cardholder funds in any bank account we control in any way, nor do we spend, or count as ours, any funds that are seized. Those funds are returned to the rightful owner. The problem in this thread is that some people are trying to get information to continue or amend their scam by creating the false appearance that we are stealing funds or acting irresponsibly.

To help you all understand, here is a short version of our business model: We make money when funds are loaded, or sent in a P2P transaction. Therefore, we are fully driven towards use and functionality for you, our cardholder. We do not charge a monthly fee or a Use Fee, like many other cards. We do not make money on float (funds held in accounts), ePassporte funds that are loaded on to your account are not within our control; rather a trust bank holds them waiting for a call from Visa Interchange or the cardholder at an ATM or you asking for a wire, then the cash is moved to cover that transaction.

Spacemonk asked a simple question and maybe others have as well and if we were not answering this question I am sorry for the prior confusion.

From an industry point of view I think that we are lucky to have ePassporte; its success has been in large part due to the Adult Webmaster community accepting the product and using it. Sure we make money, however the investment in the technology and the time it takes and took to work with banks, etc was very costly. We expect to make a profit, just like anyone else. Neither ePassporte nor EPOCH will abandon this market, as did Pay Pal and others. However, we run the risk as an industry of hurting ourselves from within by constantly having these public discussions where accusations of theft or fraud are relentless, even after an answer is given and a solution, such as "write to me" is offered. Let?s just be aware that we have a great product run by honest people and just like everything else, a few idiots will screw it up for the rest of us. Believe me: There is fraud in every product like ePassporte - Visa or otherwise. When we catch it we are going to be as aggressive as possible, to protect our brand and to ensure our ability to continue offering alternative payment methods and vehicles to this industry.

To those of you (4 so far) that wrote to me, I have replied to each of you that I will have details to you tomorrow.

C

PS: St. Kitts Nevis Anguilla National Bank is an excellent bank and it is not on ANY list as some idiot posted.

Hmm your avoiding every question posted here again almost..

Dont you have "RULES" to follow. What is " a few days" ? we know its not 180 days , but how many days is it. ?? And if this is the case , then mail the money to the people in this thread that have had money stolen by you.

How come you dont tell your customers this information when they call you. It seems several peple in this thread have had sezied funds for no reason and customer support never mentioned UPS'ing the money back to the owner who's account you suspended...

Again like your other employees instead of simply answering the question , you choose to muddy the water , by making blanket ACCUSATIONS of people who have legitimate questions about your service in this thread. Calling them fraudsters looking to gleam info from you. Instead of WAKING UP AND REALIZING ITS YOUR CUSTOMERS ASKING THE QUESTIONS, AND FOR GOOD REASON, Your employees are on a seize spree and it means CUSTOMERS cant get answers to questions.

Again you use 2 paragraphs to tell us things we already know and dont need an answer to, and ignore every other question..

SIMPLE QUESTION IT DOESN'T NEED A FUCKING PARAGRAPH TO ANSWER..

I sell domains , I have 50k in my account, What protection as an epassporte user can i take to prevent someone from using 1 fraud epass account to purchase a domain and have my 50k seized.

GET IT ?? THEN FUCKING ANSWER THE QUESTION

Kimmykim · 08-22-2004, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by greenlab
I dont wanna take DamCash side, however there are some strange facts going on :

Sponsor accounts (Business accounts) cand only be funded by wire transfers, this meaning the the funds are available on epassporte bank account, before they enter the system and can not be fraudulent.

Also, a Sponsor account (Business Account) can also receive transfers from another Business Account (B2B). However sice all Business Accounts can only be funded by wire transfers, i dont see how fraud cand take place....

Note that a Business Account CAN NOT receive funds from personal/associate accounts ! (p2b)

Sigh. I'm going to correct the errors in this reasoning and then I'm not posting in this thread again.
Lanoy, you need to email me kimmy @ epassporte .com so that I have somewhere to answer your questions when risk management gives me the answers tomorrow. I will not be posting them on a message board since they will be account specific.

Now on to the rest...

Business accounts are initially funded and reloaded via wire transfer. We do not allow direct funding of business accounts with anything else. However, using the ePpurchase interface money does move from personal accounts, which are credit card loaded, into business accounts, creating a co-mingled funds situation.

I hope this clarifies the situation as far as your questions regarding how funds can be transferred.

SmokeyTheBear · 08-22-2004, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Mallick
We do not charge a monthly fee or a Use Fee, like many other cards. .

ummm
Dont you charge a fee for both cards ?

The_Joe · 08-22-2004, 11:23 AM

KimmyKim, I wrote a big letter to you, where I described situation very detaily. Please give me normal answer. I still waiting for normal answer. All i got is

"We can't take you business anymore"
"We will not tell you the reasons you was blocked"
"We can't tell you anthing, sorry".

I wait for ONE normal answer. Please, can you do it? I really need it.

pornstar · 08-22-2004, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Russian.

Ouch ... I have some russian friends that might like to meet you and discuss this.

TheMob · 08-22-2004, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bezruk
I also have epass acount.

Account was opened by GammaCash, and i get payments from Gamma to this account.
Three weeks ago, my friend make payment to this account from one of personal account opened by DamCash. This account and my account are also closed. Where is absolutely no fraud activity on this account. I receive money only from GammaCash.

Epass has all my documents.

I call support 4 times, but they dont want unblock this account.

that sounds kinda scary.. what's happening with epassporte?

Nautilus · 08-22-2004, 12:43 PM

Sure it does not sound like all participants of the drama were offered polite detailed explanations of what happened and FedExed checks with what remained of their money.

SmokeyTheBear · 08-22-2004, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nautilus
Sure it does not sound like all participants of the drama were offered polite detailed explanations of what happened and FedExed checks with what remained of their money.

Lip Service so far..

i think epassporte users deserve an answer to the question about how users are supposed to protect themselves from a fraud user or sponsor sending them money.. and thus losing all funds accumulated until that point..

As a merchant account holder if my merchant told me someone came into my store and used a stolen credit card and so my merchant was going to reverse the charges PLUS seize all funds in my merchant account and disable the account so no further sales could takes place with no explanation i would go apeshit.

Generally in a case like this the charge is reversed and the police are notified, my merchant abilities are not disrupted and business goes on as usual.

If a high occurance of fraud was to take place the merchant might suspend an account , but they certainly cant seize the funds the merchant account has in it. If following a police investigation the merchant account themselves were found to be involved in the stolen credit cards then the money would be seized and charges filed..

How does an EPASSPORTE user verify if the money he spends / recieves was at one point involved in a crime ??

Like EXAMPLE..

If i sell a domain to someone , how do i verify if his account is fraud or not and what steps can i take to insure if he had fraud money that all my money wont be seized with no way of me recuperating my loss ... ?

Phil · 08-22-2004, 10:22 PM

bumpolisious...
me smell some Genuine

Stramm · 08-23-2004, 12:21 AM

Did the Russians get an explanation yet?

RED&P RedEye · 08-23-2004, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Mallick
OK, really, the last post, but a simple and fair question that deserves an answer (although I thought it had been answered).

Spacemonk: The answer in your example is ?Yes? and in a few days, not 180 DamageX.

Your account may not be closed as a result of getting a payment from one fraud transaction, in your narrow example, just suspended. In that case the $50 is returned to the CC up the chain, no matter how far we have to go back; the $1000 is either left for your reactivated account or it is wired back to you or a check is mailed or UPS'd, depending on what you want.

Interesting how You managed to solve the problem banks wordwide are trying to solve for AGES which is the very reason for "know Your client" idea used worldwide.

How can You track 50$ up to the chain? Lets say I got legitimate 50K on my account and I get 50$ from someone I dont even know. Then in 1 minute I send 50$ to a friend of mine for lets say 5 porn pics and You block my account. How on earth can You prove that I've sent the SAME 50$ which were stolen?

You cant. And no-one can.

That is why in the offline cash world police does the same stuff worldwide - they mark the actual dollar bills (ever seen that in the movies?) or copy their numbers.

And in non cash transactions that is not possible and is the sole reason for the "know Your client" banking policy, because banks can not be sure of the source of the funds and thus have to verify the client.

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Mallick
To help you all understand, here is a short version of our business model: We make money when funds are loaded, or sent in a P2P transaction. Therefore, we are fully driven towards use and functionality for you, our cardholder. We do not charge a monthly fee or a Use Fee, like many other cards. We do not make money on float (funds held in accounts), ePassporte funds that are loaded on to your account are not within our control; rather a trust bank holds them waiting for a call from Visa Interchange or the cardholder at an ATM or you asking for a wire, then the cash is moved to cover that transaction.

It would be illegal for Your company to earn money on "float" because Your company does not seem to have an actual banking license nor financial license.

"ePassporte funds that are loaded on to your account are not within our control; rather a trust bank holds them", this I beleive is illegal as well since You operate without a banking license. In fact Netherlands Antilles (Curacao where E-Passporte is registered) law is in general very similar to a certain extent to the Dutch law.

By dutch law if it would happen in Netherlands Your operations when You freezed the funds would qualify as a violation of article 82 of the Act on the Supervision of the Credit System 1992 ('ASCS 1992') .Pursuant to article 82 it is prohibited for any natural person or legal entity to invite, receive or have, in the course of his or its occupation or business, repayable funds on demand or subject to notice being given from the public. In this respect it is also prohibited to act as an intermediary for the purpose of inviting or receiving from the public such repayable funds on demand or subject to notice being given.

Which essentially means that You can not really freeze the funds on their way when You pass them because than they will be considered "repayable".

Your agent bank can do that, providing that there is visible legal relationship in between Your client and the bank or You can send all of them back to their respective senders, but by dutch law You can not keep them longer than 5 working days.

But as for Netherlands Antilles law to be honest I dont know but because these two jurisdictions are quite similar I would expect the same or similar legal restrictions.

You might want to have a legal opinion of Your lawyers into that before doing such stuff as freezing accounts because Damcash theoretically as well as all other account holders may really as You said Yourself actually go to court and claim damages (Ironically just as Your own company Paycom-Epoch is suing FDC with the sole exception that FDC IS a bank unlike E-passporte).

As for St.Kitts Bank I beleive Motos did not mean the bank itself but rather the whole region which has been removed from the official FATF black list of non-cooperative regions and countries only in 2002 with a notice that it will be watched on "closely".

FATF stands for Financial Action Task Force which is the main guide for banks wordwide in relation to whom to work with.

Russia is still there though. :D
On the other hand 140 Million population of our country with even our own Forbes edition (main editor shot dead unfortunately though :D) is a bit more than a tiny island in Carribean.

Which in essence reminds me of a joke in "Mean Girls" when a Japanese school girl in an American school being mad on her Chineese girlfriend says "YOU NIGGA!!!".
:D

tolik · 08-23-2004, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Okitch

*To the established GFY'ers that have had genuine problems with epassporte, I am NOT pointing a finger at you. This only applies to scamming scumbags

glad to hear.

Marco Galante · 08-23-2004, 04:12 AM

I have a non-adult webiste and when a fraudolent payment is made my procesing company just takes the amount out of my account and returns it to the rightful owner, certainly they do not freeze my account as that will cause me huge losses. For sure after reading this post I will not get an epassporte account. I like to comment on the threats that they have made on this board to sue their critics (rather then answer their questions) and I would like to remind them that recently paypal has had to pay a large fine for freezing accounts without justifiable cause and that legal recourse might not be entirely in their interest.

regards
Marco

HairToStay · 08-23-2004, 04:53 AM

I've read this thread a few times and still have questions.

I have an ePassporte account and have had it well over a year now.

Let's say a sponsor deposits something in my account, a sponsor I think is legit as they've been around forever, are USA-based, etc. ePassporte determines the monies paid to webmasters during this pay period were acquired fraudulently. You'd then remove those funds from my account.

Fine and dandy.

BUT - then - what determines if you close my account, freeze my account or suspend the account?

People here claim that due to a single transaction, their accounts were closed.

I can certainly understand if you froze the account while investigating, but to permanently close based on a single transaction seems excessive and harsh.

arachnO · 08-23-2004, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HairToStay
I've read this thread a few times and still have questions.

I have an ePassporte account and have had it well over a year now.

Let's say a sponsor deposits something in my account, a sponsor I think is legit as they've been around forever, are USA-based, etc. ePassporte determines the monies paid to webmasters during this pay period were acquired fraudulently. You'd then remove those funds from my account.

Fine and dandy.

BUT - then - what determines if you close my account, freeze my account or suspend the account?

People here claim that due to a single transaction, their accounts were closed.

I can certainly understand if you froze the account while investigating, but to permanently close based on a single transaction seems excessive and harsh.

HairToStay, as I understand Epassport will close affilate program's account not yours

Rainmaker · 08-23-2004, 06:54 AM

Kimmy, please print this and hang it in your office

CamJack · 08-23-2004, 06:57 AM

I know the guys at damcash and they are solid !

But on the other hand, Paycom/Epoch or whatever name they use now still owe me 17grand in reserves from back in the day and refuse to answer me. I am baffled at the # of people that still do business with them.

motos · 08-23-2004, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by motos
to Rand

Please make my business account details public (i mean member id Noganka, partnership Damcash). I am not against any way of understanding the situation particularly!

to Rand,Kimmy Kim and others from Epassporte

We still didnt hear any answer from your side about the reasons of closing the account . Everybody on the board is waiting for it.....

DamageX · 08-23-2004, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arachnO
HairToStay, as I understand Epassport will close affilate program's account not yours

Read this thread again, several people here say their accounts were closed because of receiving money from DamCash.

RicardoB · 08-23-2004, 12:25 PM

Someone should make a collective thread showing the multitude of threads made on this very subject by different people so everybody can see these are NOT isolated cases.

HairToStay · 08-23-2004, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DamageX
Read this thread again, several people here say their accounts were closed because of receiving money from DamCash.

Thanks, I read everything 3 times and was sure of that ....

I could understand freezing it while investigating, but closure?

Bezruk · 08-23-2004, 05:31 PM

Still has no answer from Chris.

The_Joe · 08-23-2004, 06:21 PM

the same for me..
still no answer from Chris

multiplexxxor · 08-23-2004, 10:09 PM

This is what happens when a financial company is ran without any licenses to transfer money... just on an agreement from a bank

for some reason I always hated ePassporte and always knew that they would freeze the accounts.

You cannot start issuing ATM cards without having serious heat for money laundering etc....

well, good luck to all of ya.

RED&P RedEye · 08-24-2004, 12:36 AM

Bump?

08-21-2004, 07:46 PM	#153
DamageX Marketing & Strategy Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Former nomad Posts: 14,293	Well, since this thread seems to have been abandoned by epassporte staff, here's a fresh one for you: http://board.gofuckyourself.com/show...adid=344528&s= Those of you who want an answer to these questions, please keep bumping it. Thanks. __________________ Whitehat is for chumps If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

08-21-2004, 08:01 PM	#156
digifan The Profiler Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ICQ 76281726 and I'm female Posts: 14,618	Kimmy will be back... like she told it. You can trust her. __________________ [email protected] Webair Rocks

08-21-2004, 08:44 PM	#158
cool1g Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Hollyweird adjacent Posts: 977	i don't have any personal experience with ePassport so i can't comment directly.... obviously it would suck to have legitimate funds tied up due to one jerk sending you fradulently obtained monies. i guess that's the risk one takes nowadays by dealing with this method of moving monies versus wire transfers or checks. __________________ InterG Media affiliate network (dating, pay per call) EDM Life Affiliates Cash In

08-22-2004, 01:07 AM	#162
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	Motos, what was the primary reason that made you change your address? Common sense tells me that even if it's legit, it will create questions at that point of time. Epassporte should protect those receiving money. I understand reversing such payment and closing accounts after multiple cases of receiving fraud money, but I fail to see the logic after that. Any account holder can receive such payment and a single event is not enough to judge someone. Suppose an account is frozen after such event, does the balance becomes available (minus the fraud transaction) after some time or is kept by epassporte? Last edited by Theo; 08-22-2004 at 01:08 AM..

08-22-2004, 01:10 AM	#163
motos Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 38	Is it true that E-Passporte uses SKNANB.com , St.Kitts National Bank for operations? The same bank Glo-bill was relying on? Good to know that our funds are always "safe". And good to know that Russia is in Your black list. Funny to mention though, that St.Kitts itself (and unlike Russia) is in international banking black lists worldwide. __________________ http://www.longbucks.com - 65% + 30$ PPS, HD Video Sites, Exclusive Content, NATS, 2.000+ FHG, Free Hosting!

08-21-2004, 10:36 PM	#159
SpeakEasy Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Internet Posts: 2,681	Bump for a possible reply from epassporte ?

08-22-2004, 05:31 AM	#167
goBigtime Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,761	blH. Last edited by goBigtime; 08-22-2004 at 05:35 AM..

08-22-2004, 06:33 AM	#168
Tipsy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: See sig Posts: 6,989	Just as a side note...I know that PayPal close accounts with little reason and at the drop of a hat etc etc and they seem to have the same support in this situation as epassporte i.e. more or less none, however... I have to use PayPal on a couple of non-adult projects I'm involved in simply because it would lose business not to. Obviously I take a risk just by using paypal but am prepared to accept that and keep no significant funds in the account 'just in case'. To the point - I recently received my first 'fraudulent transaction' via PayPal. PayPal DIDN'T close my account. Instead I received a nice, professionally written e-mail explaining that they'd had to reverse the fraudulent transaction and advising me not to ship any goods to that person. They also asked for a little more info on the account which I happily provided and received a prompt, hand-written (ie no bot mail) response thanking me for my help. Now...if even PayPal can do this (and let's face it for the most part paypal really do suck) why does it seem to be impossible for epassporte to do too? I've been toying with the idea on an epassporte account for ages but never bothered as in the past the direct join approach would never work for UK accounts (ie the small test load never shows as it's never truly debited). However, the inability to answer simple questions is very worrying so I don't think I'll bother just yet. Worth asking again in the vain hope somebody is professional enough to actually answer a very simple and very important question that's now been repeated by many people.... If an account closed for receiving money from a previously unkown fraudulent account (or in this case it seems it's actually for being created by an account that received money from a fraudulent account - so is even further removed) what the hell happens to any 'non-fraudulent' funds in that account. Are they returned to the ACCOUNT HOLDER and if so when? Even PayPal usually eventually return frozen funds if the funds are not fraudulent, sometimes fairly quickly too if you pressure them enough. __________________ Ignorance is never bliss.

08-22-2004, 07:04 AM	#169
greenlab Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 252	I dont wanna take DamCash side, however there are some strange facts going on : Sponsor accounts (Business accounts) cand only be funded by wire transfers, this meaning the the funds are available on epassporte bank account, before they enter the system and can not be fraudulent. Also, a Sponsor account (Business Account) can also receive transfers from another Business Account (B2B). However sice all Business Accounts can only be funded by wire transfers, i dont see how fraud cand take place.... Note that a Business Account CAN NOT receive funds from personal/associate accounts ! (p2b)

08-22-2004, 11:23 AM	#179
The_Joe Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 177	KimmyKim, I wrote a big letter to you, where I described situation very detaily. Please give me normal answer. I still waiting for normal answer. All i got is "We can't take you business anymore" "We will not tell you the reasons you was blocked" "We can't tell you anthing, sorry". I wait for ONE normal answer. Please, can you do it? I really need it.

08-22-2004, 12:43 PM	#182
Nautilus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,631	Sure it does not sound like all participants of the drama were offered polite detailed explanations of what happened and FedExed checks with what remained of their money.

08-22-2004, 10:22 PM	#184
Phil Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,659	bumpolisious... me smell some Genuine __________________ Ask Phil

08-23-2004, 12:21 AM	#185
Stramm Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NL Posts: 342	Did the Russians get an explanation yet?

08-23-2004, 04:12 AM	#188
Marco Galante Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: europe Posts: 56	I have a non-adult webiste and when a fraudolent payment is made my procesing company just takes the amount out of my account and returns it to the rightful owner, certainly they do not freeze my account as that will cause me huge losses. For sure after reading this post I will not get an epassporte account. I like to comment on the threats that they have made on this board to sue their critics (rather then answer their questions) and I would like to remind them that recently paypal has had to pay a large fine for freezing accounts without justifiable cause and that legal recourse might not be entirely in their interest. regards Marco __________________ Sell sexy ringtones, java games, wallpapers and more

08-23-2004, 04:53 AM	#189
HairToStay Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Southcoast, Mass. Posts: 1,521	I've read this thread a few times and still have questions. I have an ePassporte account and have had it well over a year now. Let's say a sponsor deposits something in my account, a sponsor I think is legit as they've been around forever, are USA-based, etc. ePassporte determines the monies paid to webmasters during this pay period were acquired fraudulently. You'd then remove those funds from my account. Fine and dandy. BUT - then - what determines if you close my account, freeze my account or suspend the account? People here claim that due to a single transaction, their accounts were closed. I can certainly understand if you froze the account while investigating, but to permanently close based on a single transaction seems excessive and harsh. __________________ Make bank by giving your surfers free pics every day and it costs you NOTHING! Use POTD Sponsors to find adult sponsors in more than 75 niches who offer a POTD feature!

08-23-2004, 06:54 AM	#191
Rainmaker Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 26	Kimmy, please print this and hang it in your office __________________ I got no fucking program to spam here yet

08-23-2004, 06:57 AM	#192
CamJack Old School Webmaster Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 1,334	I know the guys at damcash and they are solid ! But on the other hand, Paycom/Epoch or whatever name they use now still owe me 17grand in reserves from back in the day and refuse to answer me. I am baffled at the # of people that still do business with them. __________________ Skype: promote.promote [email protected] Last edited by CamJack; 08-23-2004 at 07:00 AM..

08-23-2004, 12:25 PM	#195
RicardoB Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,576	Someone should make a collective thread showing the multitude of threads made on this very subject by different people so everybody can see these are NOT isolated cases. __________________ Let Me Show Ya How I Really Feel Ricardo's Rants

08-23-2004, 05:31 PM	#197
Bezruk Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 76	Still has no answer from Chris.

08-23-2004, 06:21 PM	#198
The_Joe Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 177	the same for me.. still no answer from Chris

08-23-2004, 10:09 PM	#199
multiplexxxor Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 28	This is what happens when a financial company is ran without any licenses to transfer money... just on an agreement from a bank for some reason I always hated ePassporte and always knew that they would freeze the accounts. You cannot start issuing ATM cards without having serious heat for money laundering etc.... well, good luck to all of ya. __________________ -<[UmaxSearch blows away SearchFeed and others]>- https://www.umaxlogin.com/

08-24-2004, 12:36 AM	#200
RED&P RedEye Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 38	Bump? __________________ www.re-partners.biz