What the fuck kind of retardedness is this? You asked "He ran from him... and you got this from where?" and then you fucking quote Zimmerman as saying "He's running".

You imply he didn't run, and then quote the killer as saying he ran?

Duh.

Are you really going to question how long it takes for a teenager to walk home?

Gee, maybe he wasn't in a hurry. (You clearly don't have kids.)

Well, I don't think I suggested he never ran, just that he wasn't running away from GZ; since the testimony from TM's girlfriend said he has going after the cracker.

Yeah, they all just walk around in the rain.

The burglary tool is otherwise known as a "screwdriver". It's also worth noting that no charges were ever brought against him nor does he have a criminal record. Nor did anyone ever claim the jewelry to be theirs. For all we know the story was exactly as he claimed although it is suspicious.

So if you are otherwise talking about "reasonable doubt" for GZ it also makes sense to apply it here to TM who wasn't even charged with a crime.

If you're coming home from the store and you're 17 years old with have no car, yes, you probably will walk home in the rain.

GZ also claimed he was looking at all the houses. I also caught that he was only living there temporarily and that he had only been there a few times. If so isn't it very possible that he was a bit lost in the dark and the rain at that this was why he was looking at all the houses?

Well, I guess if you want to ignore the testimony of his girlfriend, sure.

Can you share exactly which testimony you are referring to or would that require you to write more than your one customary vague sentence?

Great article from the Washington Times

George Zimmerman is innocent. The evidence clearly shows this. Yet the liberal media have already convicted him in the court of public opinion. The result is not only that a man?s life ? regardless of the verdict ? has been shattered. Race relations have been poisoned, paving the way for possible deadly riots if Mr. Zimmerman is acquitted.

The entire mainstream media narrative, however, is based on lies. Trayvon was not killed because he was black....

It really doesn't matter what Martin was doing - or Zimmerman for that matter except for what happened at the very moment the gun came out and the trigger was pulled. The prosecution has to prove what was happening inside Zimmermans mind in that very moment and whether or not a reasonable fear or grave bodily harm existed on Zimmermans part. Everything else is is just theater and emotion.. There is no evidence that discredits Zimmermans account. There is no proof of an alternative sequence of events. The prosecution has not proven or even put forward and alternative theory. The prosecution even changed their story as to what "might have happened" which is retarded and should tell anyone that's the slightest bit reasonable that you can't have two possibilities and not have reasonable doubt as to either happening.

Did the prosecution prove Zimmerman was acting out of malice, ill will, spite etc AND of a depraved mind with no regard for human life when the physical altercation started? No. He proved that a dopey, aloof guy that basically sounded like Forest Gump was doing his job, calling police and guiding police to his location because he felt this guy was out of place and was darting in and out of peoples private property.

As I mentioned... I once was attacked by a guy that broke into my house to confront his ex who lived with me. I pistol whipped him to the point that the walls we basically painted the walls in blood in 2 rooms. Police arrived and he immediately started trying to argue that he was assulted. The police looked at him and asked "was this gentleman ever between you and the door? No? Ok, then you are under arrest". This apllies directly to Martin. He was not stopped from going home. No one got between him and where he was going. In fact, he was completely free to keep walking OR to call the police instead of continuing to talk to his female friend. Any argument to the contrary is speculative, not fact. Any argument Martin was somehow defending himself is again speculative and not fact. Being followed by someone does not give you the legal right to attack them. the presumption is that Martim dod attack him as no evidence contradicts that. You don't get a conviction based on speculation and hypotheticals.

that's a bad way to go :(

Tony, how do they know the gun had the safety off with a bullet in the chamber BEFORE the incident?

Of course the safety was off and a bullet ready to go AFTER he shot the gun. Right?
That just makes sense. But I'm confused on how they know that the gun had the safety off and a "bullet chambered".

I'm no expert on guns. I don't even know what kind of gun GZ used. All I ever owned as a pistol was a 38 special. So there is always a bullet ready to go.

Isn't that how all pistols work? You take the safety off, point it, and shoot it right? You don't have to take the safety off, put a bullet in the "chamber" and then shoot it do you? Seems like that would be a pretty inefficient gun.

exactly! :2 cents:

One thing about these sensational trials is that you learn interesting facts.

Like when the forensic expert said that you would be conscious and able to talk a few seconds (maybe up to 15 seconds depending on the person) after your heart is stopped.

I never knew that.

It was a double action, semi automatic pistol. There is no safety button, switch etc....just a longer, heavier trigger pull.

And no one... Police, security, military or anyone else carries a weapon for self defense without a round chambered. There is never a presumption that you will either have time or both hands freely available to chamber a round in the heat of the moment.

Baddog will now say this provides proof and it is now 'fact' that he clearly had 15 seconds to wipe Zimmermans blood from his hands.

Why would Martin have blood on his hands if he is the one doing the punching? It's clear most of you have never been in a fight. The bloody nose, lip etc is after the fact ... Its not instantly happening in the 1/200th of a second that a knuckle is making contact with the nose. Martin did have abrasions on his knuckles to indicate he was punching. Zimmerman had multiple wounds to indicate he was punched.

Seems to me like Martin was no hurry that night. He was walking in the rain, talking to his chick there.... Nothing wrong with that.

You know Baddog... Some people just.... Walk. And when they do that, they don't always take the shortest route home.

When you punch someone twenty-five times giving them a bloody nose, there should be blood on your hands.

Clearly Zimmerman wasn't punched twenty-five times.

Funny how he insists he is an expert but never backs anything he says with evidence.

I think it's a well established fact and admitted by the defense that Zimmerman wasn't punched 25 times. That fact however does not change the fact that he was indeed punched more than once and zero fact exists to suggest Zimmerman made any offensive move whereas, it's quite clear Martin did.

It brings up a few good points but it's an opinion piece and it's pretty biased. The article reads pretty much like a press release from the defense team mixed with four paragraphs blasting liberals and accusing them of wanting to start race riots. The article goes as far as to say that "Obama and his media allies" will have blood on their hands if there are race riots. It actually mentions Obama by name.

It's highly suspicious. He most likely did in fact rob someone. Teenage boys do not usually walk around with jewelry and screwdrivers. It is entirely possible that at some point in time Martin did in fact rob someone.

But that night Martin had done nothing wrong. He was walking home from the store.

Honestly I haven't heard baddog really say anything was "proof" of anything. He has pretty much just been refuting the "Team Trayvon" posters by pointing out the evidence brought in the case.

So far I've seen people posting that it's a "fact" that GZ meant to kill TM all along because GZ had his gun ready to go, because he "stalked" him, because he told the 911 person that TM was running, because he changed his stories with slight variations over time, etc. , etc.

My opinion (and it's only an opinion...not "FACT") is that the whole thing was a giant stupid perfect storm of shit that led to one young man losing his life, and another one having his life ruined forever.

I don't think GZ "stalked" TM or wanted to kill him.

I just think GZ did what most of us would do if they were on neighborhood watch and their neighborhood had been burglarized numerous times. I know I wouldn't have let that person out of my site. Hopefully, most of us would have calmed the situation down and it wouldn't have gotten out of control.

But THAT is where TM comes into play. Apparently some people on this board have never dealt with testosterone fueled young men. TM was pissed at being followed. His girlfriend stated that on the stand.

TM made the mistake of beating up a guy with a gun. It happens every day. People should learn to keep their hands to themselves.

That's not easy when you're angry. I know that if I were in TM's shoes...I may have done the same thing. I do not like busybody people fucking with me. So I might have been dumb enough myself to have turned on GZ. Not sure I would have went straight to kicking his ass though. I probably would have gave him hell verbally. But who knows?

Anyway...I started rambling. lol
I don't think baddog has been stating "Facts" as some have in this thread.

What I've noticed is that there are a few folks on here who are so convinced that TM was murdered by a "stalking" psychopath "white" guy....that when anybody says: "Wait, that's not what the testimony in the trial was" they immediately go ballistic as if their own last name was "Martin".

I've also noticed that anything that was said in court that might convict GZ is the gospel truth. And ANYTHING that might prove GZ was acting in self defense is obviously a lie.

And now, just because I've said that...somebody will attack me, Fox News will be brought into the conversation, and I will be branded a racist. :1orglaugh

Hey guys...none of us have any real connection to this trial. We're all just watching it on t.v. and processing what we see through the prism of our own life experiences and beliefs.

I saw the buildup to the trial where it was so racially charged.
I have watched parts of the trial on CNN each day and watched the panel of attorneys on Anderson Cooper 360 discuss and give their legal opinion that the prosecution had no case.
I've seen jury experts on that same show say that jurors usually already have their minds made up the first day.

My OPINION from everything I've seen is that the state did not prove the case.
Having said that...I still have no idea what the jury will do. I have had the feeling that they are going to say "Guilty" no matter what because of the intense media barrage that convicted GZ in the public eye long before they were ever even picked as jurors.

I'm thinking that's probably how a lot of cases end up going in court. People wanting to have some sort of "Justice". It's just human nature.

Zimmerman claims Martin was placing his hands over his face as he was trying to yell for help.

Did GZ really say at any time that he was punched or had his head slammed against the pavement 25-35 times. I spent a few minutes looking for the source of this but did not have any luck. I can only find others mentioning it third hand.

I'd say from that screaming like a bitch on that 911 call...TM was unsuccessful in getting his hands over GZ's face. GZ was squealing like a pig!

I don't know. But my guess would be that if he did say that, it would be like you or me telling our buddies that we tore some girl's pussy up for an hour last night. But the reality was it was only 5 minutes. lol

Plus I'm sure that when you are getting beat up...you aren't actually counting. You kind of go into a bit of shock when someone punches you unexpectedly. Then after a few seconds you will go into "fight or flight" mode and your adrenaline will skyrocket.

Trying to determine how much time went by or count punches or head slams doesn't seem possible to me under those conditions.

So GZ is just guessing. And since he is Latino...he's gonna exaggerate it. It's a cultural thing.
And all the racists out there wouldn't understand it. lol

Well I've been in two potentially lethal situations against both a gun and knife at different times so I understand that it can happen so fast and that people will react differently. Sometimes you can't recall everything either. I wouldn't expect his count to be exact but I would expect it to be somewhere in the ballpark. For instance if he claimed his head was slammed into the pavement 25 to 35 times I would expect that to have occurred at least ten times.

Last time I had a gun pulled on me was back in S.C.

I had put a new SU carb on my MG Midget and was test driving it on some back country road. I was stopping every few minutes on the side of the road and getting under the hood to tweak the mixture screw on the side of the carb.

As I'm driving back and forth on this little road, a guy came out and flagged me down.

So I pulled up into his yard. He ran over telling me how cool my old MG was and how he hadn't seen one in years, etc.
People did that all the time, so I'm not thinking anything of it.

I get out and raise the hood for him and start showing him the mods I had done. Suddenly he runs around the car, grabs my key out of the ignition and pulls out a pistol. He cocks it and aims it dead at me!!!

I about had a heart attack. I had a sudden sinking feeling that I had just made a terrible, terrible mistake and I was going to be dead in a minute.

The guy starts cussing me out and telling me that he KNOWS it was me that has been the one vandalizing everyones yards and homes on that country road!

Keep in mind that the homes weren't side by side. It was out in the country. So there would be an acre or more between these little houses.

I explained to him that I lived around the corner, and that I was working on my car.

He held me at gunpoint for about a half hour. I finally convinced him to let me go.

I went home and called the cops and they went to his house and took care of it.

But man...that was some scary shit because I didn't see it coming. And I felt so dumb that I had gotten trapped like that.

One thing's for sure, after that I don't let anybody get me in a situation where I would be helpless again.

After listening to the tape of the screaming I'm not sure who it is but it could be Zimmerman. If it was he was definitely in fear of his life and freaking out. But he also seems like he is prone to overreaction and apparently he has some kind of nerve problems too and is on medication for it. It's unlikely then that he is good under pressure.

But Trayvon could also start screaming like that after he discovers the other guy has a gun and wants to shoot him. I think most 17 year olds would be going hysterical. The tape only lasts about 1 minute between the screams and the gunshot so it easily could be TM screaming at realizing GZ has a gun and is potentially going to shoot him.

But here at 16:00 this really bothers me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A5V3T1Iq2I

SH: "Is there anything you regret....do you regret getting out of the car to follow Trayvon that night?
GZ: "No, sir."

SH: "Do you regret that you had a gun that night?"
GZ: "No, sir"

SH: "Do you feel you would still be here for this interview if you did not have that gun?"
GZ: "No, sir."

(GZ then talks about it being God's plan)

SH: "Is there anything you might do differently in retrospect -- now that time has passed a little bit?"
GZ: "No, sir."

That's crazy. :( I guess he is afraid what he might say could be used against him but this really makes him seem crazy or like some kind of monster.

It seems so obvious to me that this whole thing was a series of misunderstandings and mutual fear. It's horrible to see someone say something like this and I hope he doesn't mean it. I guess maybe he could be linking it to his earlier God comments but it still seems a bit out.

I believe Martin was on Zimmerman, and I believe Zimmerman was yelling for help. At that point, Zimmerman was defending himself.

But I question everything that lead up to that moment. I find it hard to believe that Zimmerman pulled a firearm out from behind him while on his back being beat; I think Zimmerman had the gun out prior to the first strike.

The absence of blood on Martins hands (while fighting in the rain) is not proor that Martin wasn't beating him. And you can't expect a nose to bleed when the victim is on his back.

That's very much possible and probable. I think I mentioned that before. Instead of reaching for his cell phone he could have been reaching for his gun. Most experienced gun owners would do that in fact. They would have it ready to go as soon as danger is identified. If you were being chased by someone you thought was a criminal who is messed up and on drugs you would have that gun ready. You wouldn't stand at close range and pull out your cell phone. GZ did that before but the difference was that he had his windows up and the doors locked. GZ was the paranoid and cautious type.

The trouble is TM can't tell us his side of the story because GZ shot him. All we have for this portion is GZ's story. And the burden of proof is on the prosecution. That's tough to pull off with no witnesses but GZ. I did read one old story claim that a witness saw two figures running and one was being chased. But I don't think that came out in the trial, did it?

If the jury ends up thinking the same, Zimmerman will walk.

It's all going to come down to who the jury thinks laid their hands on the other first.

Not saying that that's right, but that's the way it will go down.

I did not follow the trial closely, just occasionally.

Did Zimmerman's defense ever explain why GZ did not identify himself as a neighborhood watchman when he met TM?

Jury is asking for clarification on manslaughter charge. Not a good sign for Killerman.

Would you not agree that someone's memory might deteriorate over time? The prosecution entered GZ's immediate comments.



Use common sense.

And no one is disputing that. He said it felt like 25 times. I have a feeling that your beat down had less punches and kicks than it seemed like . . . . unless you were unconscious.

Thank you, I am glad someone is paying attention. :thumbsup

No

Gravity would cause the blood to roll back down the throat, not up and out of the nostrils.

I don't recall it ever being brought up. They don't have to explain anything; and the prosecution did not make it an issue that I recall.

what is the black kid was xxxjay

verdict has been reached...