Originally Posted by wig

How do you get that out of what I said?


.

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Ohhh, that's your research? No wonder you have no idea what's going on...

You gave a link to fox news transcript from a fox talk show (not news) and a wiki link on drone killings in Pakistan. You might want to try Google, and not just read one thing, and totally avoid anything ever produced by Fox... then you'll start to see the facts, maybe... if not keep reading.

Originally Posted by TheDoc

This is a great example of what I'm talking about above.... being that you don't understand how the stimulus was used, your quote really makes you sound completely uneducated on the subject.

Let me help... Every State had to use the money in the percentages laid out by the Administration. One State would use the money correctly, and it worked/helped and things are good today. Another State, let's say like Texas, took the stimulus money, spent it how it should have been - which did work - however THEY spent the 'actual state school budget' on something else & did not use it with the Stimulus as it should have been, so when the stimulus funds dried up - they were fucked, and blamed Obama.

If it was used stupid, it's not Obama that did it... it's the States. Point your hate the right direction and you might not be so blinded by it.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

So now you're saying you don't understand my response? Nice come back, not biting, arguing with you is an exercise in futility

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Yet you didn't even look at it because you responded with what video?

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

You act like I'm the only guy on the planet that thinks Obama had his head up his ass with the way the stimulus was spent. He started it saying it would keep the unemployment rate from hitting 8 percent, couple years later, have you noticed where it's at?

Originally Posted by wig

If you have a question to ask, then ask it.

I was contrasting your way of looking at things with an alternative. Clearly, that went over your head.

It appears so blatant to me that you use your political ideologies -- which are developed more by culture, tradition or what pulls on your heart strings -- to inform and discuss economics rather than using actual economics to inform your politics.

If discussing economics with me is futile, it's because you don't understand economics well enough.

If futility is me not getting sucked into a political discussion with a hack, then yes again.


.

Originally Posted by TheDoc

A video isn't proof of anything, damn sure not a spin... you're supporting my point greatly though.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

LMAO, yeah, clearly, get off your high horse, I just hate the present administration, the guys that used Bush's stance on wars, then escalated them, Bush's stance on the Patriot Act, then extended it to get in office
then lied and said the economy is getting better.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43395857/US_H...t_Depressi on

Yet, I get labeled as a right wing nut job when I don't back what they are saying either, they have no back bone anymore since the religious right took over the party.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Denying the revalance of him laughing it off doesn't make it sound any better
9.1 unemployment, 14 % on food stamps and it's his administration, so yes, it's him and his guidance, making excuses just doesn't cut it anymore

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

thing is, the way Reagan did it, and succeeded, is not the way Obama is doing it and it's not working, funny how a year ago you said the same thing, and nothing is changing under Obama, worse housing market ever, unemployment at 9.1% when he spent or HIS administration spent a trillion dollars to keep it below 8% and 14 million on foodstamps, yet he's pushing for statehood for a 51st state to get more votes, which is all he care about

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

LMAO, yeah, clearly, get off your high horse,

Originally Posted by theking

Vendzilla

You need to understand that repeating anything that Fox news has to say...is just their spin...just as repeating anything that MSNBC has to say...is just their spin.

Fox news is no more than a Democrat hit organization just as MSNBC is no more than a Republican hit organization. Both are the most biased "news" organizations out of all of the news media. The spin that both put on events bears little resemblance to the truth of events. Anything that either of these organizations say must be taken with a large degree of skepticism.

Almost every word you say is nothing more than Fox news talking points.

I know this because I watch Fox News as well as MSNBC among others.

Originally Posted by TheDoc

His administration DID NOT SPEND A TRILLION to keep unemployment down. Wow, you even saying that... just wow.


I'm done, you're so twisted, fucked up, and so misinformed... it's pathetic and simply not worth discussing this shit with you.

Originally Posted by wig

I don't know the first thing about submarines, so I doubt I would characterize you as being on a high horse if you corrected me on something to do with this topic.

I've spent 25 years in investment banking, financial operations and markets. I was owner and a finop for an nasd broker dealer and had economists on the payroll, I owned a commodity brokerage company, I sit on the board of an investment firm and sit on an advisory board to a small hedge fund. It's not just a difference of opinion. Your opinion on economics / markets is simply poorly informed and smells only of political rhetoric.



I understand that you hate them. I'm sorry that this is the response you find most available. That said, I share the frustrations of the things you mention above.



In all honesty, you come off clearly as a right winger. Of course, that doesn't mean that you support everything on that side. Pointing this out does nothing to lessen your general stance.



This is GFY.

Look, last time we discussed inflation it was going down the same road as seen in this thread. I pointed you directly at the numbers and all you could do was put your mental earmuffs on and point to gas and food. (notice that you have been quiet on oil prices recently since the last time you started that thread. hmmm.)

Then we had the discussion about outsourcing and free trade where you displayed another narrow view.

I think I offered a simplified example like this:

Vendzilla makes dildos. They cost you $10 to make and you sell them for $20 and earn $10 in income.

Jang can make them for the equivalent of $5. She sells them for $10 and the shipping cost to Jang's country is $1.

Julie wants to buy a dildo.

Before outsourcing: Vendzilla earns $10. Jang earns nothing. Julie spends $20 on a dildo.

After outsourcing: Vendzilla earns nothing. Jang earns $5. Julie gets a dildo for $11 and therefore saves $9.

Vendzilla is $10 worse off. Jang is $5 better off. Julie is $9 better off.

Suppose we want to restore Vendzilla's income, even without asking you to do anything for it (rather generous . . . but then Jang wasn't doing anything before was she). Then via an internationally-applied PVAAC ("Protect Vendzilla At All Costs") tax, we transfer $7 from Julie to Vendzilla and $3 from Jang to Vendzilla.

After side-payments: Vendzilla "earns" $10, Jang earns $2 and Julie still saves $2.

Vendzilla is as well off as before. Jang is $2 better off than before. Julie is $2 better off than before.

Opposition to oursourcing/offshoring is only ever based on the distribution of income. Protectionism can redistribute income but only by lowering it overall, which is wasteful for the world.

Then, of course, empirical observation is overwhelmingly that Vendzilla does find alternative income and such transfer payments are rarely necessary.

I tried to explain to you that you outsourcing / free trade were good for society globally and that there were benefits of lower manufactured goods prices that you were ignoring or hadn't factored in to your analysis.

IOW, there are larger gains than losses. They don't accrue to everybody equally, but it would be theoretically possible for side-payments to make everybody better off including the person whose labor was outsourced.

Your attitude was more mental earmuffs.

So, please either get a clue or go fuckyourself as well with your $20 dildo.


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Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Thats why we got into it, you wouldn't concede that shipping expenses had anything to do with the equation, that would gas prices. Still around $4 a gallon BTW

Can't make money off a $20 dildo that cost $20 to ship

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Obama makes many promises that he can't keep but he does it because he feels as if he can win the people over with the things that he says. He usually revises those statements at a later date and then people are disappointed or disillusioned. What else is new? This is the way he runs his life and it has worked for him up to this point. Unfortunately for him, the public is waking up and making their minds up that he is not "all that and a bag of chips"! The polls are rapidly declining and people are seeing what a mess he has made of our Nation in a record amount of time.

Go ahead, start spinning on that

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Your post is another great example of what I'm talking about.... it's filled with trash.

First the stats prove you wrong, he has kept a higher percentage and more overall promises than any President in like the last 100 years.

Yes, Presidents, myself, and everyone else revises what they say when people confuse what they say with pure stupidity. I'm shocked you even tried to twist that.

Rapid decline? A 5% fluctuation for 2.5 years, and 10 points below your peak disapproval rating, is a rapid decline in his approval? Ummm.... no, you can't even twist it to be.

Umm... 50% of overall voters still blame Bush for our 'current' issues. And with his voters, it's like 75%. Obama's policies have only slightly increased in 2 years, and in recent months, the blame on his policies has slipped.


Facts spun..... clearly you got your info from mainstream media, probably fox or right radio. If you listen to that trash, it's 100% hype filled with bullshit, twisted, crap. You REALLY need stop repeating it.

Originally Posted by wig

You just make this shit up as you go, huh?



.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Pull your head out and talk to people other than on this forum, you might learn something

Originally Posted by marketsmart

its always funny how you say one thing and then totally contradict yourself time and time again..

do you understand that the president does not control the country?

do you understand that congress shapes the policy and what a president pitches never goes through as originally presented?

do you understand that corporate lobbyists tell members of congress how to vote on issues?

do you understand that the media is part of the corporate machine and put their own bias on everything they report and sometimes fabricate stories or data to suit their agenda?

if you understood all this as you claim, you would stop focusing so much of your time bashing a president that isnt in control of shit..

i wonder if you will switch to defense mode when a republican makes it into the white house after obama's second term...





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Originally Posted by Minte

If that is the case,why so much hate on the last president? He was responsible for everything that was wrong on the planet.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

And thats what you have for debate? Sorry, thought I was talking to someone that was able to carry a conversation, my mistake, it won't happen again.

I replied, you denied it ever happened, smart move when you can't disprove, you should go into politics, barry could use you

Originally Posted by Minte

If that is the case,why so much hate on the last president? He was responsible for everything that was wrong on the planet.

Originally Posted by marketsmart

i dont know.. bush was a puppet just like obama...

clinton was before that..

if people understand that then they wouldnt bash obama or bush, but people are sheep and thats why our country sucks...




.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Pull your head out and talk to people other than on this forum, you might learn something

Originally Posted by wig

No, you mental midget, the debate part came well before that.

You know, where I had to walk you through simple economics data and explain things to you like I would to a 12 year old.

I should have known it was beyond your comprehension.

But go on and pretend that your economics are informed and that I simply can't carry on a conversation.

Idiot.


.

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Are you pretending like you've gone out and talked to people? Do you just walk up to people in the mall or at the school, and ask them what they think?

Or are you talking about friends/family? Because I find people don't like some policies, some choices he made, like any President. I've never heard any of them repeat the shit you do, the ONLY place I hear that comes from the extreme right.

I run a few political sites, I get the crazies on all sides... and without question, "people" do not think like you - only one group of people do, the extreme right.

I can read FB comments on general people, alll day long, that aren't big in politics (most people) and they never twist the crap you do... ever.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Sticks and stones, guess you have nothing for the conversation as ussual.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Thats right get your info from FB.

And I talk to lot of people, I actually step away from my keyboard.

Talked to a retired Black lady on the plane ride from Chicago, she will not vote for Barry again.

I'm a very personable person, I like to talk to strangers, yet have friends that you would be afraid to talk to

Originally Posted by wig

Sure, you economic powerhouse…

According to your logic, all the t-shirts, sneakers, widgets or whatever we buy from China is being done at a loss because…

You can’t sell Nike’s made in China for $100 because it costs $100 to ship them.

Pure genius. Did you study economics during your submariner days or when you became whatever it is you are now?


.

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Yeah, why wouldn't I OBSERVE what it looks like on FB? It's funny that you do attempt to bash watching people, even more so when you get your INFO from fox news, you might as well read the Onion for your news.

Yeah, I live on my keyboard... of course we've been here the same hours today, and most days.. and of course nobody else gets out but you.

I've met people that didn't vote but they are this time, others say they aren't, others going for Obama, others going for anything but, totally confused people, people that will only vote with a party, and people with crazy views that make no logic.

You can stop pretending it's one way....if you actually got out and talked to people, you would see this without question.

Originally Posted by Minte

If that is the case,why so much hate on the last president? He was responsible for everything that was wrong on the planet.

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Because he lied to us, like 20 times, and started a war built on lies, that ended up killing some million people?

Personally, I found his answers and how he gave them made America look stupid, without question he hurt our image.

Other than that, like any President he has policies people don't like. Like no child left behind... but most people hate Bush because of Iraq - and some are still burnt he stole the election.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

LOL, you're probably judging the state of this business by what you read on this forum.
I get out more than most people, it's my nature

I thought you were done with this thread?

Originally Posted by Minte

Take it up with Marketsmart.

I am back in my office for a few days after a LOT of business travel. I am happy in my work. If you really feel that the country is better today with Obama, I am happy for you.
I know that when the recession began my business was not going to get any handouts.
Yet somehow,we managed to muddle through and grow and add nearly 40 new jobs in the last year. We are exporting to China,Vietnam,Germany and France.

So for the moment, Life is good.

carry on..........

Originally Posted by TheDoc

This forum does reflect what is going on in our business... we have people that say it sucks, some that are rocking, and everything in the middle... it's a perfect reflection of our Industry & a great sampling of it.

Sweet, people should get out more. I'm a little bummed that last year I could only do 5 vacations, only got about 30 days in... it sucks to have a busy family that volunteers for the american legion, ymca and the school board.. if I could only get out and meet the people.


Nope, never said the thread, I said you. In relation to trying to educate you on the facts... no reason to show you the truth, you're so blinded by hate, even if the truth slapped you in the face you wouldn't accept it.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I'm looking at the end results
9.1% unemployment
14% on food stamps
And I don't even know how many countries we are killing people in right now.

These are the things I gauge on.

I'm not blinded, I don't like either side. It's just that everyone only see's the hate I have for the present administration

I did the volunteer thing, belong to the VFW, USSVI and have a 5 gallon pin from the red cross. Did the school board thing too, daughter is in college now, pre med
I get out every weekend and many nights,I talk to everyone, I just don't believe even half of what I read on GFY.



Lets try this, make a list of countries we are actively killing people in right now?

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

And still no answer to cost of shipping.

The sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, are you retarded?

Originally Posted by wig

Why are so many of you fixated on a manufacturing based economy?

The US is already the 2nd largest manufacturer in the world, having only recently lost the number one spot.

There is nothing wrong with an economy deep in services and technology even if the unskilled manufacturing is elsewhere.

Yeah, it sucks for the unskilled American, but there will never be enough manufacturing jobs in the US to replace all those that lost jobs no matter how low the dollar goes.

.

Originally Posted by TheDoc

End results? Well those are simple, the President doesn't create jobs which would get 'mostly kids' off food stamps.

Then if you actually talk to people, then you know it's not one sided... that plenty of people like what he has done so far.

Personally, I don't care what countries we're killing in - it means nothing.

Originally Posted by wig

Do you really think this shit works?

You might be the most pigheaded dope on GFY.

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Originally Posted by Mutt

the economy is broken, it can't be patched up because it's foundation has rotted away - the villains at worst will live out their lives abroad in luxury if things get too depressing here.

reset the global economy, accept the truth and the pain and get back to a manufacturing based economy.

part of me would love to see the middle class rise up and riot for 'regime change' - kick out every single bastard in Washington who sold them out. clean up Washington, clean up Wall Street and follow Canada's lead when it comes to banking.

The era of American Exceptionalism is over, it doesn't matter why, it's over.

Originally Posted by DateDoc

Looks like Republican Gov Perry of Texas is going to run for election now too. Perry vs Obama 2012?

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Thanx for clearing that up, kill everyone

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

He sounds better than anyone else offered up, I like his loser pays and his requirement of a ID to vote drives. That would piss off a lot of people

Originally Posted by Mutt

because a great % of families from post-war America, what most look at as the glory days, attained the American dream with factory jobs or jobs spun off from factories.

service industry jobs are low paying jobs for the most part.

here's another example - i have a friend with a small computer business, he needed to hire a minimum wage employee to man the shop and do minor computer repairs and services for customers. he got applications from adult males in their 30's and 40's who were way overqualified with impressive programming backgrounds. one younger applicant had lost his job with Geek Squad as did many others he worked with at Geek Squad. Why? There's a little gadget Geek Squad has that plugs into a PC, it allows low paid Indian techs to repair home computers.

Technology is going to allow this to keep on growing. You have a population of 330 million people, once you get past the professional careers (doctor, lawyer, dentist, accountant etc) what's everybody else supposed to do, cut each other's hair, make each other sandwiches?

Originally Posted by TheDoc

If you want to kill everyone, that's a bit much, I guess I'm glad we don't kill everyone though.


Btw, your question of what countries we're killing in, the question itself means nothing. Truly, only someone with twisted person hate agenda would phrase it like, what country? fuck the country, how about... how many people? Yeah, deaths are down by a lot, but of course that's not important to you, the number of countries is, so it can be higher, so something else can be hated on...

The world must be so fucked up to you... how sad.

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Instead of a bird feeder you should have hung a trillion dollars on a branch. This way the Corporate Lobbyists, Military Contractors, CEO's, Bankers, and Wall Street execs could come by instead. Eventually they'll take your house and land, and you won't have to worry about all of the shit they leave in your yard.

Fuck the birds, the poor, the sick, and the needy! I'm a brainwashed right-wing idiot, and even though I continuously vote against my own interests, I would rather have a world that shits on the less fortunate, just as long as I get to keep my bible, guns, and Fox News!

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

thing is that everyone hated bush for getting us there, Obama is expanding it



Don't know anything about him, the school system needs an overhaul and if you go to Texas, everyone that lives there thinks Texas is a better place, they have state flags everywhere.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I'm sitting here having a cocktail trying to remember the last time I spoke with someone that approved with the way Obama and his administration is doing things, been a while.

I got this in the email today.

I bought a bird feeder. I hung
It on my back porch and filled
It with seed. What a beauty of
A bird feeder it was, as I filled it


lovingly with seed. Within a
Week we had hundreds of birds
Taking advantage of the
Continuous flow of free and
Easily accessible food.

But then the birds started
Building nests in the boards
Of the patio, above the table,
And next to the barbecue.

Then came the poop. It was
Everywhere: on the patio tile,
The chairs, the table ..
Everywhere!

Then some of the birds
Turned mean. They would
Dive bomb me and try to
Peck me even though I had
Fed them out of my own
Pocket.

And others birds were
Boisterous and loud. They
Sat on the feeder and
Squawked and screamed at
All hours of the day and night
And demanded that I fill it
When it got low on food.

After a while, I couldn't even
Sit on my own back porch
Anymore. So I took down the
Bird feeder and in three days
The birds were gone. I cleaned
Up their mess and took down
The many nests they had built
All over the patio.

Soon, the back yard was like
It used to be .... Quiet, serene....
And no one demanding their
Rights to a free meal.

Now let's see.
Our government gives out
Free food, subsidized housing,
Free medical care and free
Education, and allows anyone
Born here to be an automatic
Citizen.

Then the illegal's came by the
Tens of thousands. Suddenly
Our taxes went up to pay for
Free services; small apartments
Are housing 5 families; you
Have to wait 6 hours to be seen
By an emergency room doctor;
Your child's second grade class is
Behind other schools because
Over half the class doesn't speak
English.

Corn Flakes now come in a
Bilingual box; I have to
'press one ' to hear my bank
Talk to me in English, and
People waving flags other
Than 'Old Glory' are
Squawking and screaming
In the streets, demanding
More rights and free liberties.

Just my opinion, but maybe
it's time for the government
To take down the bird feeder.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Do you think that Obama violated the 1973 warpowers act?

Originally Posted by TheDoc

United Nations Participation Act, Title 22, Section 7, § 287d. Use of armed forces; limitations defines the legal use for the U.N. and related. U.N. Charter Article 41-43. Which allows for Article 42 forces to Not Require Congressional approval.