Herd

You mean like kicking out independent and amatuer adultwebmasters, and giving control to just a few big studios?

And how would one go about reorganizing the adult business on the internet, so it flows under one distribution system?:

ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE

Fanciful concepts are always presented with a lead charlatan who dreams of having control. Soon S. Lawley will fall back into the wood work where he came from, the industry will pick up the pieces.

The internet can not be controlled, although it can be fucked up more and more with each passing idiot obsessed with obtaining the holy grail.

For content producers who have been sold into believing they will have a controllable distribution channel you have been gravely mislead.

2MuchMark

Geeze what is going on around here? Everyone needs to take a step back a moment.

First, Moe, Alex, & Kristen have all gone out of their way to help us out. I LOVE Xbiz because the whole team is professional, they obviously love what they do, and they know that helping businesses grow helps them to grow too. Every serious business person reading this thread already knows this.

Connor and LAJ are great too. LAJ has been especially good to us and cares alot about his show and business just as the Xbiz peeps do. Jerks who sit back and bitch about how bad any trade show might have been has no idea what they are talking about.

Any big mouthes in this thread who have never met the people behind these companies or fully understands what they do, how they work, or how successful they really are, should STFU. Ask questions then read the answers. Don't spew off your own versions of the "facts" in lame attempts to discredit hard working people or companies just because of what you THINK. That kind of BS does not make you more credible at all - it makes you LESS credible.

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GTS Mark

I never had a problem with connectivity or speed when i had 50 servers running at Webair?

merina0803

Robbie

Holy shit! Why would you need 50 servers? Damn Mark. I thought you guys sold ad spots? What the heck would you ever need 50 servers for?

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Atticus

I think you need to take a step back and read the thread. The question has been asked and we're waiting on the answer. It's just not coming.

If the online adult industry is consolidating and in 1-3 years the number of adult companies are greatly reduced how will XBiz replace that falling revenue? It's a pretty simple straight forward question yet everyone is jumping in blindly letting us all know how great a company XBiz is, and how awesome the people who work there are. This may be true but doesn't answer the question and simple economics of the business.

The original statement by the OP might have been overly negative and harsh but there is a ring of truth behind the analysis. In an industry that is rapidly consolidating how will a company that relies on the health of said industry survive. It's obviously in their best interest to have 10 companies placing ads versus just 1.

webair

mmmm they sell A LOT Of ad spots? =)

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Barefootsies

You seem to be under the impression we are all here to win some sort of message board debate club badge. No one owes you any answers. No matter how many threads you post it in, or times you ask for them.

That being said, affiliates are not the one's taking out the ads in XBIZ, or any other trade mag, nor spending the "ad dollars". GFY is mainly made up of affiliates crying about tube sites, and being forced out of business with bad conversions. Many of the companies advertising in XBIZ ad space are not active as posters, or visible on GFY.

Furthermore, for each 'BROgram' or single company there has to have been easily 1,000 to 10,000 affiliates if you look at the ratios. I would bet that literally 75% of the affiliates from 3 years ago are no longer full time in this business. Within 2 years, I would say that 95% of the old timers will be gone leaving only the power houses.

By the simple law of averages, when I say "most of adult will be a ghost town" that would hold true since most of the affiliates, which made up the largest number of both GFY and the online adult industry will be almost completely gone. At least the full timer affiliates.

There will still be plenty of strong companies left who've brought their traffic in-house over the past few years, developed their own tube sites to build up traffic, turned their membership and old credit card data into mailing lists, or growing fast in the mobile, etc.. These companies will still be buying ad space. Most of XBIZ ad space is geared toward B2B IMHO. Not worrying about some low ball affiliate.

I guess you needed myself, and others, to spell out these simple concepts. As you have admitted, you get the hard cover of the trade mag. and should have been able to easily open it and pay attention. While not all, the vast majority I see monthly is B2B and geared towards higher end companies. Software scripts, content, mobile applications, new technology, etc.. But I guess this eluded you.

Hopefully now that I have taken 5 minutes of my time to explain this, you can now sleep at night and get a good night's rest for tomorrow. I am sure there will be plenty of new posts where you can follow me around with will76 like a jaded school girl repeating, "I asked you a question, I asked you a question almighty Footsies".

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"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

shade001

This thread is a wonderful example of why the industry is being eaten up by the sharks while the rest of us are arguing about nothing.

Atticus

Thank you so much for taking the time to educate me on proper spin technique.

In your original post that started all of this you said absolutely nothing about affiliates. You said Xbiz would be one of the last viable adult companies left within 12-24 months. Which begs the obvious question:

If XBiz depends on other companies to advertise then how in the hell will they be one of the last viable companies left if there are no companies left to advertise?

You then deflect, post stupid pics, act like a condescending jackass and finally do an about face and say affiliates will be gone but they'll be plenty of companies left to place ads. So basically what we all thought in the first place. You blindly rushed in to kiss some ass and made a comment you couldn't possible back up with any reasonable opinion because it was absolute horse shit and ridiculous in the first place.

I do read the hard copy and I know who's placing ads now. The question is who will be placing ads in 12-24 months? As I've stated above I personally think XBiz will be fine. But I also don't have such a bleak outlook as you do. I think they'll be plenty of companies left and also a place for the affiliate model. YOU are the one who said otherwise.

Robbie

That just blows my mind! I thought that they sold text and banner spots on TGPs and Tubes, etc.
What does GTS need all those servers for? They aren't hosting the ads themselves...and even if they were hosting banners...you wouldn't need even one server for that!

50 servers????
Damn!
Mark, do you own a webcam site that I don't know about?

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Davy

XBiz social networking is definitely better than the troll fest on here.

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AdPatron

Prove it.

HELMY

It must suck to come out a loser in your own territory (if you know what I mean).

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will76

Probably the P2P stuff he was doing before all of that crashed. You don't need 50 servers to "sell ads" lol.

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merina0803

will76

Here are the reasons that I mentioned why I think companies like Ynot, Xbiz, AVN, etc... will have deminishing sales going forward and will NOT be viable, very profitable companies. Sure some or all of them may stay in business, but they certaintly wont be making near what they were a couple years ago, much less will they be prospering.

Reasons being:
1. Consolidation: The trend over the last couple years, couple big companies buying out SEVERAL small and medium size companies, thus reducing the amount of potential companies that will buy ads from you.
2. Going out of business: A good bit of companies (not just affiliate programs) have gone out of business. Designers, content producers, etc... other companies have been hurt for various reasons over the last couple years and have gone away.
3. Less Revenue being made: A lot of companies still in business are making less money, having to scale back, lay off employees, close offices, etc.. and one of the big cuts they are doing is advertising on adult webmaster sites / industry mags, etc.
4. Affiliates not as sought after by companies. This is really the only one you replied to, and I disagree with what you said above.

I just checked Ynot and I see companies like 21sexturyCash, KellyCash,SugarCash, FTVCash, DaveCummings, etc.. and it looked just as much non dating/cams ads as there was dating/cams. So while it might have been a lot less than a couple years ago I think you still have a good chunk of them left to lose if things continue to go bad for the non cams/dating companies or for any of the other reasons I mentioned above.

Assuming that you are getting a lot of cam and dating companies advertising, I don't believe that makes up for all of the other "traditional affiliate" programs that have stopped over the last couple years. There isn't *that* many dating and cam companies. There were thousands of "traditional affiliate" programs and there is a fraction of that for cams and dating.

Also, as I mentioned, even cams and dating programs are valuing affiliates less and less and doing more in house traffic or deals they go out and set up. For example, I don't recall seeing Streamates advertising anywhere (if they do I missed it), and look at how many deals they have with tube sites and white labels. They literally have almost all of the top 10 biggest tube sites using their white labels. They are not trying to advertise to get 100's of noobs to join looking for that 1 gem affiliate, they go out and make deals with companies they want to promote them. Also look at MyFreeCams, they don't advertise at all and are invite/exclusive. Those are 2 of your biggest cam companies right there and there are others who are following suit and either developing their own traffic sources and/or working deals directly with site owners (no need for advertising). Look at cam4.com yet another example.



You can't compare adult and mainstream, period. Much less making the comment that since the affiliate program works so well for mainstream it should for adult too. Adult and Mainstream have always been apples and oranges for many many different reasons. However, in the past both did rely on affiliates. But that has changed, mainly do to tube sites. Tube sites pooled a LARGE amount of adult traffic into a hand full of sites. Tube sites not only took a ton of traffic away from TGPs (which employeed a lot of affiliates) but it took traffic from link lists, blogs, free sites etc... pretty much pulled people from everything. How do these big tube sites operate... they deal with program owners directly and they cut out the affiliates. These companies aren't going to advertise in Xbiz to try to work a deal with the top 20 tube sites for example. They going to contact them directly, no need to advertise.


I agree face to face is valuable, but not essential. A lot of people have never gone to a show but still do business with lots of other companies and they still make a lot of money. As companies are having to cut back with expenses shows are going to be one of the first things cut out. I am sure companies can easily drop 20K,30K or more on shows by the time they get a booth, set it up, get their promo materials together, fly in a staff and set them up in a hotel. I doubt they could do it bare bones for less than that. As affiliates and other adult industry people make less money they are also going to cut back, and going to shows for them is also going to be on top of the list.
I don't believe it's just been the dead weight that has been dropped from the shows and there is just as many *serious* people there doing business as before. While there is very likely a higher percentage of people there now serious and ready to do business, that total still has to be less than it was in the past.

Also, I don't need to take your word for it if you think they are valuable, I think the number of people getting booths there will tell you if it is valuable or not. If that number has been declining then obviously more and more companies are not seeing it as being that valuable, ie RIO isn't worth what they spending. If companies were doing really well going to shows then obviously they would keep coming back. So you tell me, has the number of booths each year been declining at shows? The answer to that question will tell you if they are being found to be valuable or not.


At the end of the day I feel like I am back in a thread about 2-3 years ago where I was saying that Tube Sites would be killing off TGPs. All of the TGP owners were saying, no way. Many of them thought tube sites would be fades, they couldn't make money they would just end up going out of business because the expenses would be a lot higher than there profit. They put their heads in the sand. They have lost and continue to lose a LOT of traffic while tube sites continue to dominate adult traffic. Sure tgp sites are still around and they can still make you some sales, but its not a fraction of what it use to be. Now here I am talking to people who own companies that rely on the adult industry doing well (as a whole) with lots of companies doing well and lots of webmasters / affiliates doing well and they are saying "no no, everything is going to fine, we will be fine".

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will76

Not sure if that is directed at me, but since I am a "big mouth" posting in this thread... just so you know, I've meet Jay and Connor at a show. Not that I think it really matters or is essential to have meet the owners of these companies to have a common sense opinion of where you see the market and future going for them.

Exactly, no need for me to reply to him to say the same things. If he wants to make stupid comments then cant back them up he should simply just reply back saying " I don't want to back up what I said" and that would have been that. But instead he made retarded posts and comments like " you wouldn't know because you don't get their hard mag." and then went on and on just acting like a jackass.

Also he is wrong, A lot of advertising on these sites is geared to affiliates. Most real B2B is done with phone calls not Xbiz ads. For example, if a company wants to sell all of their cross sales to another company they don't place an ad on Xbiz, they get their Rolodex out and make phone calls. *If* all of the affiliates were to go away you would be left a pretty consolidated adult industry, where a rather small amount of companies were responsible for a rather large amount of the traffic and sales. They wouldn't need to advertise to do business with each other, they would already know each other and how to contact them directly. Mass advertising is effective when trying to get to a large audience, ie affiliates and webmasters, not so much adult companies. Even more so as things become consolidated more and more in the future.

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AdPatron

Sorry, I don't.

alias

I think he means you got owned in this thread which you made. But I don't see that, Cherrylula and Barefootsies definitely looked stupid though.

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AdPatron

Owned how? I haven't been reading any of the reply posts unless they're really short. What did I miss?

alias

Honestly not sure, that is what I took the comment to mean. I had to guess.

will76

nothing surprising there.

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AdPatron

I don't think there is any logical way to 'own' someone who does a prediction. I'll let him explain himself.

Barefootsies

Jesus Christ dude, you are STILL fucking going on about this shit days later? You are one serious fucking nut job. I guess business for you must just be that bad you have to sit on GFY stalking strangers, and typing out these long ass fucking posts.

I always knew you were a stalker idiot, but I honest never paid you much mind until this thread, or the other where you kept following me around demanding answers from the "all mighty Footsie".


Yet that is what you've been doing for days. Hypocritical much?

Actually it has nothing to do with backing shit up or not for two reasons.

1. I do not care enough to spend endless hours debating someone ignorant like you.

2. Whether I could, or could not, back up anything I say on any topic and you will refuse to accept it. You are bullheaded like that. It really doesn't matter the subject or thread. Over the years on GFY I have yet to see you admit you are wrong about any subject.

Furthermore, as I have seen in not just this thread with myself, but other threads in general, you call anyone sticking up for a company you do not like, or those with a counter point to your opinion a a kiss ass, suck up, whatever. You do this almost everytime someone else supports a position or company you do not agree with. You always go to Bro network, ass kissers, blah blah blah. It couldn't be they have a good product, others believe in their company, they have a different opinion than yours, or whatever. It has to be one of your witty names on broken record repeat from thread to thread.

So why would I waste my time on a fool's errand when you already have your mind made up? Do I get paid to debate you? Is there a merit badge in it for me? If I am doing it for the sake of being right on some message board against a mental retard like yourself, I simply have better things to do with my time.

That really bunched up your panties this week eh? Switch to decaf.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

will76

LOL better things to do with your time then to reply to me... like make long threads like this and the countless immature posts you have made to me and atticus in this thread... apparently you *don't* have better things to do with your time.

And your retarded images you keep using in these threads where we are trying to talk about business related issues pretty much sums you up chump. I was replying to ********** about a comment he made, I don't care if you care or any one else does, that is why I was replying to him. You feeling the need to make retarded comments and post retarded pictures just shows that you *DO* care or either have nothing better to do with your time.... troll on brother, troll on.


you right Champ, you obviously have much better things to do with your time, but your contributions here were not only appreciated but brought a lot of intelligence to the conversation, thanks for sharing this with us:

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Robbie

It appears we have a case of an accidental friendly fire trolling?

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

will76

Now back to the grown up conversation where people can try to hold some form of a mature, intelligent conversation...

I took a look at Xbiz.com to see who was advertising there. A couple quick refreshes on front page, big banners and I noticed the following companies:

PimpRoll
AEBN
Gammae
Alimighty Content Webcams
Emerchant Pay
Woodman Casting X
Alcuda
Payment Network
Live Bucks
Hustler Cash
Zombaio

Looks like an aweful lot of companies that advertise heavily to affiliates and run affiliate programs. Most of them do not come across as the type to advertise on XBiz so they can do business with other businesses. Is Hustler Cash for example advertising on Xbiz to try to find a new host, or payment processor, or hoping a cam company will see their ad and contact them so they can work out a deal trading some traffic? And if they were to want to do a deal with another company, I am sure they would contact that company directly not place an ad hoping other companies would contact them.

I think the majority of these (AVN, Xbiz, Ynot) type of sites are still geared towards companies to advertise so they can pick up new clients. In the majority of the cases the *client* is going to be someone to promote their affiliate program. Even most of the payment processors are geared to the small webmaster. The exact same people who are getting squeezed out of business or getting bought out in all of the consolidation that is going on. Is another big company going to see an ad on Xbiz for a Hosting company and say, hey would she give them a try. I doubt that rarely if ever happens. The host is targeting the small webmasters and affiliates, someone who wants to switch to someone else to save money or because they are just starting out and they don't know who to use and they just saw an ad.

Apparently these companies still have money allocated to advertising for affiliates or *clients* but I wouldn't be surprised that more and more of them stop in the near future as they see its big waste of money, for one or more of the several reasons I already stated, not just because a lack of new clients gained. I wonder how many have already stopped in the last 6,12 months and pulled their ad budgets... It's also funny how many of them don't even code their links (didn't pay attention to the xbiz ones but in general) I have seen a lot of companies buying ads and not code their links. The site might not be sending them any clients for all they know.

This thread was about why "Xbiz to go out of business" I've expanded it for the purposes of my thoughts to all companies like xbiz, and am not picking on just xbiz. These are my opinions, I don't expect everyone to share them, but I have no dog in the fight. I have nothing against the adult industry news, forums, resource and mag sites. I just looks crystal clear from a non biased by stander, from the perspective of the very person that many people are buying ads from those sites to try to attract. I feel I have a pretty good vantage point and feel for whats going on in the industry. Of course I don't expect you to agree but time will tell and deep down inside I think a few of you look at your sales and it reaffirms what I am saying you just either don't want to believe it or would never post about it.

But... OMG I don't get the Xbiz mag in the mail, so I wtf do I know... lol

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Barefootsies

We'll do a little experiment for those with free time.

How many times did you keep replying to me when I didn't to you? Hey Footsies, look at me wanting to debate you. Hey Footsies, you did not answer me. Move to next thread, hey footsies, you did not answer Atticus. Please footsies answer me.

Oh yeah. It sounds like replying to you was what I was doing the whole time.


Two or three days now, and still repeating the same sentence? Pure comedy.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

will76

Wasting more time eh?

I'm not the one proclaiming I have better things to do with my time.

Troll on brotha, troll on... Maybe you can post 10 more funny pictures, you can be like the thread clown.

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Agent 488

Barefootsies

Nah. If you look at post histories, you see that I normally I do not bother with the will76, his trades and nonsense. More over, I do not bother following him around the same thread, or multiple threads screaming look at me... but you did not answer me footsies...

He gets on these grand standing, "I'm right and you're all wrong", but if you do not agree with him you are a kiss ass, sucking someone's cock, BRO, or some other nonsense.

Which clearly reaffirms my previous point. You must either agree with him, or else. In this particular thread, I decided to have some fun with him for my own amusement. Although as you can see it has his panties in a bunch and he's turned into some psychotic attention starved stalker.

Frankly I do not care one way or the other. I am not going anywhere, and this industry could get 10 times worse and I can still be plugging away making my money. I am not an affiliate watching my revenues go into the toilet and making my 576th tube site hater thread or trying to villianize other adult companies. I prefer to focus on my own business. Not that of others.

If nothing else, this industry has shown me in over 14 years, that you are not going to stop tubes. Just as you could not stop torrents, TGP's, or many of the other 'boogie men' who have came and went over the years. The industry has changed each time, and you either changed with it, or were wiped out and forced to move on. The genie is not going back into the bottle.

The adult industry as a whole is not going anywhere. There will always be room for those who have found a way to stay ahead of the curve. Whether through mass consolidation, mobile, or whatever the next evolution it. However, the next generation of it will look much different. Many of the 'godfathers' of the late 90's and early 2000's are gone. Many more are on their way out, kicking and screaming as we see daily on the boards. But nothing is going to stop either technology or change.

"The only constant is change."

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Barefootsies

Look at me footsies, look at me. Please acknowledge my existence footsies. Please answer my questions footsies. Please debate me footsies. I'll catch you in the next thread repeating the same thing footises. I live a productive life footsies can't you see that....

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Robbie

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Atticus

This is ironic because you said something completely opposite of this statement in the beginning of the thread.

Your comment in the beginning was 'in 12-24 months adult will be a ghost town and XBiz will be one of the last viable companies left'. When it was pointed out that with their business model that would be impossible you started posting juvenile pics. Then tried to switch it to the affiliate model will be a ghost town but adult will be just fine. Now it's 'they'll always be room for those that evolve'.

Jesus Christ man. Just admit you jumped into a thread to kiss your usual ass but made a stupid (even for you) comment and you were called out on it. Go back to you're dumbass 'Bravo fine sir' posts and leave the analysis to others.

Barefootsies

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

NETbilling

This thread is now giving me a headache. It was wrong from the title.

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Who wants the top of the 5th page?

ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE

MOxxx

This could be another GFY premiere sig position.

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AdPatron

Hey Helmy, I'm not done with you. Explain yourself.

merina0803

xbiz blows dogs

Rochard

Are they out of business yet?

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AdPatron

Waiting Helmy. Chicken?

AdultKing

Well you got that wrong - retard.

baddog

Maybe that is why he changed his handle from Pornless

astronaut x

i second that

astronaut x

everybody is going out of business...good luck with your blogs and such

astronaut x

Do you even have a data center? You are just a hosting reseller adult industry wannabe. That's all you have been and that's all you will ever be.

Please post some more pics of some non adult industry event and watermark them with your gotwebhost BS.