What would you like to read in an E Book about shooting porn? - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

american pervert · 04-12-2011, 05:16 AM

positions to pose them in.

selena · 04-12-2011, 05:29 AM

While I personally wouldn't buy it for no other reason than I don't plan to take up shooting porn, I think that there is an audience for it. Hell, there are ebooks for everything, so why not this?

All trolling and magic join links aside, you do have experience in that arena to share. And as all the shooters were pointing out in a recent thread of someone who wanted to shoot a movie with no experience...

just like fucking on film, shooting people fucking is not as easy point and click.

Go for it, Paul.

selena · 04-12-2011, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barcodes

Hey Paul.

I'm new to the game and don't shoot for myself. I just don't have the budget for the nicer gear or to pay models etc right now so I am starting as an affiliate. That being said I would still like to throw some ideas your way.

You should look at createspace.com. You can import your word file into their system. You can also use an image of your own, or one of their template covers in their book cover system and add your title text spine text etc with minimal effort. They have free membership and charge a low fee per sale. They print on demand so you don't have any overhead.

I would suggest maybe putting a customer login to your ebook available through the printed book if you really want to make one, but more often than not one guy buys it and it goes straight into pirate bay or another torrent site, people download it and it gets sent to mega upload etc. If they are going to steal you work, make the guy scan every page one by one and make a crappy pdf for others to steal.

As far as equipment goes, I think I heard you retired a little while back. I don't know if you have experience with RED cameras but I say if you go into detail use an expensive one maybe high end Panasonic for film or a Hasselbad for photography. Chances are your buyers wont have access to those and will focus more on the techniques you go through (apertures, dof, white balance, whatever) instead of specific features that may fade away over time. If you cater to Canon you'll have Nikon lovers frowning anyway and vice versa.

Again I am a newb and my experience is that of a web designer and photog hobbyist. I've been posting a ton of questions in the forums and have been getting great help from everyone. Just trying to give back a little.

Good luck with it.

Nice input.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldon Hoke

eBooks are old hat nowadays, get with the times. It's all about videos.

Jason Cole has done an awesome video on this already.

I've got to disagree with you on this one. I love eBooks. I can put them on my my Kindle, and have them with me where ever I go. I know that videos can be transported as well, it's just that for some types of things, I prefer to read vs watching vids.

Caligari · 04-12-2011, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley

pretty much... you are born with it or not... pretty sure you don't have it...

If we're talking about your skill...pretty sure i don't want it

Paul Markham · 04-12-2011, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barcodes

Hey Paul.

I'm new to the game and don't shoot for myself. I just don't have the budget for the nicer gear or to pay models etc right now so I am starting as an affiliate. That being said I would still like to throw some ideas your way.

Start as an affiliates and work your way up. If yu make enough to make a site, then shooting for it might be an idea you can look at.

Quote:

You should look at createspace.com. You can import your word file into their system. You can also use an image of your own, or one of their template covers in their book cover system and add your title text spine text etc with minimal effort. They have free membership and charge a low fee per sale. They print on demand so you don't have any overhead.

Thanks.

Quote:

I would suggest maybe putting a customer login to your ebook available through the printed book if you really want to make one, but more often than not one guy buys it and it goes straight into pirate bay or another torrent site, people download it and it gets sent to mega upload etc. If they are going to steal you work, make the guy scan every page one by one and make a crappy pdf for others to steal.

Thanks.

Quote:

As far as equipment goes, I think I heard you retired a little while back. I don't know if you have experience with RED cameras but I say if you go into detail use an expensive one maybe high end Panasonic for film or a Hasselbad for photography. Chances are your buyers wont have access to those and will focus more on the techniques you go through (apertures, dof, white balance, whatever) instead of specific features that may fade away over time. If you cater to Canon you'll have Nikon lovers frowning anyway and vice versa.

high level equipment won't make anyone a good pornographer. Just show up their mistakes clearer.

Quote:

Again I am a newb and my experience is that of a web designer and photog hobbyist. I've been posting a ton of questions in the forums and have been getting great help from everyone. Just trying to give back a little.

If you need any help on marketing or shooting porn hit me up. No one lasts 33 years without being able to sell his work.

Grapesoda · 04-12-2011, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caligari

If we're talking about your skill...pretty sure i don't want it

no problem, you don't have it

Cherry7 · 04-12-2011, 07:56 AM

So it turns into a pissing contest of who know what about photography...

The photograph I presented was not selected to show off photography but just a typical photo from my site as a typical photo from Paul Markham "The Teacher" site...

It is noticed that you do not do any criticism of Paul's pictures as I see you come from the same school of photography, with its daft rules....

Rules which have nothing to do with photography.

example;
And the crop. OMFG, Just below knee kinda works, but anything mid shin or ankle is just nasty. Quote...

Photos from SImon Scans

I think this speaks for itself....

Your photography is just dull, it is competent but where is the desire to try something new, to be creative? To push the borders back a bit...

We would like to spend more time on photography, make less but better, Needing lots of pictures for advertising and as they come second to our films, means that we put a lot of pictures out there that we would not consider great. But at least we are trying to do something different and with a bit of humour and imagination.

Cinema Erotique

Eldon Hoke · 04-12-2011, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

Photos from SImon Scans

Simon is probably one of the best photographers around here, hands down. You can tell he spends the effort in his artistry rather than creating 20 page threads on GFY.

Grapesoda · 04-12-2011, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldon Hoke

Simon is probably one of the best photographers around here, hands down. You can tell he spends the effort in his artistry rather than creating 20 page threads on GFY.

I agree

Paul Markham · 04-12-2011, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldon Hoke

I feel as this wont be an informational ebook, but rather an autobiography of the life of Paul Markham, successful pornographer of the 20th century.

eBooks are old hat nowadays, get with the times. It's all about videos.

Jason Cole has done an awesome video on this already.

The "My life in porn" comes later.

Paul Markham · 04-12-2011, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonScans

This isn't a good pic. Not even close.

Left to right we have. Wrong eyeline and shadow on hand. Next we have shiny forehead and hand growing out of hair. Followed by pure bored. And finally, it's hair in mouth and smoking a huge wooden cigar! All could - and should - have been fixed in the same time it took to say that outloud.

And the crop. OMFG, Just below knee kinda works, but anything mid shin or ankle is just nasty.

As for the stripey holdups? FFS sake you shoot this NOW when it would have been a bit lame in the 80s when some shot for the first time. Possible Paul. The styling is err, old fashioned to say the least.

As for lighting, well there just isn't any, not even a reflector or a careful choice of spot so the sun works in your favour. Even the reverse angle along the wall would have been better contra jour.

Lens/aperture choice? Zero thought. Looks like P mode to me, at about f16. Now imagine that shot on a tele, full length with the background more out of focus, still there, but not quite so intrusive. Or imagine it again wide angle from low down, really showing off those long stripey legs against a blue sky. Or just imagine it any way you prefer that has some kind of a "look" For someone who blathers on about "matt boxes" you'd think that would be falling off a creative log.

The whole shot reeks of a failed attempt at recreating something you once saw done well in an 80s mag. There's simply no point to it. It's not good, honest, workman like porn you can whack to, but it's not art either, it's just a bit rubbish. The only thing it has going for it, is four pretty good girls with their pants down for no reason, but even that barely lifts it into something worth a quick glance.

About all it succeeds at is being a photographic cautionary tale of how, even with four naked girls somewhere sunny, it's still possible to fuck it up.

On the plus side, a lot of your other stuff is pretty good, your book needs tighter editing from about halfway through - too many small images and not enough hero ones. Also, using the laying in the bracken shot twice, once as circular crop and once and regular crop didn't go un-noticed!

Covered some of it. Missed;

No oil on the girls to give them a sheen.

Girl with a pointed nose looking side ways.

So we know she's an amateur.

One girl squinting into the sun.

Is that the shooters shadow in the bottom left hand corner?

Are the girls with the red and yellow tops have knickers or garter belts on their legs?

The girl in black needs a suntan to match the others.

All girls have lips closed, should be slightly open.

I was this bad when I started out. I had years of editors telling me what to put right and unlike Cherry I LISTENED. Most here dismiss any advice from someone who knows a lot better than they do and say "It's the styles and you don't understand it because you're old."

Barefootsies · 04-12-2011, 09:33 AM

This thread is interesting with all of the artsy fartsy 'photography' talk.

If your fancy skills do not make you some money, the rest of that bullshit is moot. I could be the best at anything to win some e-penis message board contest with complete strangers. But if it does not make me any money in the end, then who fucking cares.

No offense ladies.

Paul Markham · 04-12-2011, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by american pervert

positions to pose them in.

Covered and how to illustrate it by putting the poses into a laptop. Got that idea from Dave or Jim I think.

Also covered sequence of shots. Start to end if you're shooting sets.

And a story board for a video, constructing a story which is more than a meat show.

And how to get it all over to the model.

But thanks for the input.

Paul Markham · 04-12-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldon Hoke

Simon is probably one of the best photographers around here, hands down. You can tell he spends the effort in his artistry rather than creating 20 page threads on GFY.

There is no stills shooter, I know of other than me, who could shoot a set for a magazine. There are lots of good single shot shooters, but not seen one good set shooter.

The mistakes are many and basic. Missing poses, repeating poses, getting poses wrong, using girls that people here think are "hot" and a magazine editor would take the piss out of me for shooting.

Now the excuse is often "I couldn't be bothered." Which if true was a damning of their business skills. A sponsor could of bought content in and then sold it to a magazine. Thereby making his content free and even profitable before a single member joined. Of if the sponsor was shooting for himself, sell to magazines and still use it in his site.

Custom shooters could of sold sets to magazines, like we did, and done custom work and opened a content store. Like we did.

The truth is their content simply wasn't good enough and good shooters who could sell to magazines weren't shooting for the money sponsors paid. It would of lost them money.

Now you can troll, flame and make all the excuses you like. But look around and see who did shoot for mags and custom?

The shooters who were good enough opened sites, all small earners because the real money was elsewhere. People like Viv Thomas, Suze Randall, Steve Hicks, Deni de Francesco and more. Many more.

If you want a site that competes with Penthouse, Mayfair or such like. You employ a shooter who shoots for them. If you want a teen site that competes with Barely Legal, you employ a shooter who shoots for them.If you want a site that competes with Evil Angel, you employ a shooter who shoots for them. And so on, these are just examples.

What you don't do is employ people who can't shoot that level and spend a fortune marketing. Because the site doesn't convert and retain. That's sheer madness. Because any clown can do it and a lot of clowns did.

So traffic had to be king. Because sites didn't convert and unless around 1,000 were looking at your content you wouldn't get 1 sale. Hell it was often 1-500 on TGP traffic clicking on a banner in and decent niche.

An easier and cheap er route would of been to employ the right PRODUCT creator, sell his content offline to absorb his wages and created a site that really kicked ass.

Some sites did it and these guys you know, the rest of you followed my leader into masher.

Maybe you couldn't really afford it in the beginning, which I'm sure is close to the truth. And as you got to where you could, you weren't good enough businessmen.

Please no excuse about mags being dead. They were very much alive in 2005. When all the gurus were around. In 2000 they were thriving.

And what about the DVD market, the same applies there. But as usual you will find excuses for your own failures.

Grapesoda · 04-12-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

There is no stills shooter, I know of other than me, who could shoot a set for a magazine. There are lots of good single shot shooters, but not seen one good set shooter.

The mistakes are many and basic. Missing poses, repeating poses, getting poses wrong, using girls that people here think are "hot" and a magazine editor would take the piss out of me for shooting.

Now the excuse is often "I couldn't be bothered." Which if true was a damning of their business skills. A sponsor could of bought content in and then sold it to a magazine. Thereby making his content free and even profitable before a single member joined. Of if the sponsor was shooting for himself, sell to magazines and still use it in his site.

Custom shooters could of sold sets to magazines, like we did, and done custom work and opened a content store. Like we did.

The truth is their content simply wasn't good enough and good shooters who could sell to magazines weren't shooting for the money sponsors paid. It would of lost them money.

Now you can troll, flame and make all the excuses you like. But look around and see who did shoot for mags and custom?

The shooters who were good enough opened sites, all small earners because the real money was elsewhere. People like Viv Thomas, Suze Randall, Steve Hicks, Deni de Francesco and more. Many more.

If you want a site that competes with Penthouse, Mayfair or such like. You employ a shooter who shoots for them. If you want a teen site that competes with Barely Legal, you employ a shooter who shoots for them.If you want a site that competes with Evil Angel, you employ a shooter who shoots for them. And so on, these are just examples.

What you don't do is employ people who can't shoot that level and spend a fortune marketing. Because the site doesn't convert and retain. That's sheer madness. Because any clown can do it and a lot of clowns did.

So traffic had to be king. Because sites didn't convert and unless around 1,000 were looking at your content you wouldn't get 1 sale. Hell it was often 1-500 on TGP traffic clicking on a banner in and decent niche.

An easier and cheap er route would of been to employ the right PRODUCT creator, sell his content offline to absorb his wages and created a site that really kicked ass.

Some sites did it and these guys you know, the rest of you followed my leader into masher.

Maybe you couldn't really afford it in the beginning, which I'm sure is close to the truth. And as you got to where you could, you weren't good enough businessmen.

Please no excuse about mags being dead. They were very much alive in 2005. When all the gurus were around. In 2000 they were thriving.

And what about the DVD market, the same applies there. But as usual you will find excuses for your own failures.

good stuff except for 'not good enough'. as you have stated you were trained by the mag editors and made many mistakes but you learned so you could earn ... now suddenly people that have a different set of skills from other training than you, aren't as good as you?

not to sure about that one P. this is basically why you are regarded as an 'ass', it's due to your superior attitude about a dated skills set... you should really consider this....

as far as my shooting goes.... the members vote on my work, I get good ratings, I keep working. pretty simple.... are you better than me? who cares? I sure don't. you don't pay my bills...

Paul Markham · 04-12-2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

So it turns into a pissing contest of who know what about photography...

The photograph I presented was not selected to show off photography but just a typical photo from my site as a typical photo from Paul Markham "The Teacher" site...

Well you were happy with the pissing, now not so happy when you get pissed on.

Quote:

It is noticed that you do not do any criticism of Paul's pictures as I see you come from the same school of photography, with its daft rules....

Rules which have nothing to do with photography.

Why do you insist on talking about photography, this is the porn business. Get it into your head it's all about getting a guys dick hard and making him pay to jerk off. Not look at nice pictures and so wow that's nice.

OK this is a fail for anything but Ex GF content. Looks like a BF hiding on the floor shooting his GF. Who looks pregnant.

Nice porn picture, girl looking into the with a nice enticing smile, holding up her big tits with nipples and erect and the open pussy is inviting. Only problem is it's at least 1.5 stops over exposed and a white girl is on a white lounger.

Quote:

Your photography is just dull, it is competent but where is the desire to try something new, to be creative? To push the borders back a bit...

Your photography isn't even good amateur.

Quote:

We would like to spend more time on photography, make less but better, Needing lots of pictures for advertising and as they come second to our films, means that we put a lot of pictures out there that we would not consider great. But at least we are trying to do something different and with a bit of humour and imagination.

Go troll a photography board.

Quote:

Cinema Erotique

Lighting standard and easy to do.

Very standard boring pose of a very bored model. The looks says "How much longer you pfaffing idiot." To me. Mind you could be anything from her being dumb, thinking about getting the bus home, what she will have for dinner. No that would be a more interesting look.

As an artistic photographer you're a failure, in that you can't even pick out a good shot to show off your skills.

If you want to shoot real artistic nude photography, you need to learn a lot. Start here artistic nude photography. Download everything onto a laptop and really study it.

Get a blow up doll, no I'm not kidding, and test out lighting techniques. Blow up dolls are cheaper and more compliant for a newb like you to learn on. When you think you've learnt enough get real models in. Learning should take you a year or so.

Oh yes and lose the arrogance, you don't deserve to be.

But, I do.

Paul Markham · 04-12-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley

good stuff except for 'not good enough'. as you have stated you were trained by the mag editors and made many mistakes but you learned so you could earn ... now suddenly people that have a different set of skills from other training than you, aren't as good as you?

not to sure about that one P. this is basically why you are regarded as an 'ass', it's due to your superior attitude about a dated skills set... you should really consider this....

as far as my shooting goes.... the members vote on my work, I get good ratings, I keep working. pretty simple.... are you better than me? who cares? I sure don't. you don't pay my bills...

Your profile says you came here in 2003, so I assume you started shooting then. Mags were still a very good business to shoot for in 2003 and still were till 2007. Even if it had declined you could of still done 3 avenues, custom and mags and a store.

My photo skills were always good enough, it had been a hobby for years. My skills with girls were good enough. The editors saw this and were prepared to help me.

What I needed was advice on poses, structure of a set and locations.

What skills did the sponsors teach you? Because talking to them I found them pretty clueless about shooting porn. Was the skill to shoot 10 sets in a day for $1500? Which was what ATK paid.

Do you get paid according to votes or what?

What ever you did get paid it wasn't what you could of earned working for mags. Or you simply were not good enough.

Here's what they were buying, could you of shot this content?

http://www.paulmarkham.com/details.php?id=1735

http://www.paulmarkham.com/details.php?id=1814

http://www.paulmarkham.com/details.php?id=1457

http://www.paulmarkham.com/details.php?id=1242

If the answer is yes, then you lost money. If the answer is no, you didn't lose money.

But if ATK had of employed me, I would of shot this content for them and it would of made them a lot of money. Assuming they would spend the money to employ me.

Instead they employed people who couldn't shoot this, but could shoot 10 sets in a day for $1500. And ended up needing a ton of traffic to make a sale. And paid through the nose for the traffic.

I'm not trying to be arrogant there were at least 100 guys like me ATK could of employed and sold all their content to magazines. Making the members area content free. And the shooter would deal with sales. Making less work, more profit and a better site. For Kim and 100s of other sponsors, well they couldn't all do it. But I'm sure you get the picture.

The online guys were just too blinkered and arrogant to look around for possibilities, even when I was here telling them.

But think of it more. Who would of liked more sites that converted better and retained longer. Because the product was better. Sites that really stood out from the crowd? Affiliates would of loved them. And the experienced shooters could of taught the site owners a lot more than site owners taught shooters.

Now if that makes me an ass. So be it.

Attitude I have to say isn't my strong point, I don't suffer fools gladly.

AmeliaG · 04-12-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

So it turns into a pissing contest of who know what about photography...

The photograph I presented was not selected to show off photography but just a typical photo from my site as a typical photo from Paul Markham "The Teacher" site...

It is noticed that you do not do any criticism of Paul's pictures as I see you come from the same school of photography, with its daft rules....

Rules which have nothing to do with photography.

example;
And the crop. OMFG, Just below knee kinda works, but anything mid shin or ankle is just nasty. Quote...

Photos from SImon Scans

I think this speaks for itself....

Your photography is just dull, it is competent but where is the desire to try something new, to be creative? To push the borders back a bit...

We would like to spend more time on photography, make less but better, Needing lots of pictures for advertising and as they come second to our films, means that we put a lot of pictures out there that we would not consider great. But at least we are trying to do something different and with a bit of humour and imagination.

Cinema Erotique

Maxim Ford, you are the one who is always pissing on everyone else. You just look really stupid doing so, when your own work is soooooooooo bad, so unattractive, so not saying anything, such a fail both as art and as commerce. Why are you still posting on GFY, when you know more than anyone else in this thread?

DamianJ · 04-12-2011, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

There is no stills shooter, I know of other than me, who could shoot a set for a magazine.(

Brilliant trolling!

AmeliaG · 04-12-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

There is no stills shooter, I know of other than me, who could shoot a set for a magazine. There are lots of good single shot shooters, but not seen one good set shooter.

...

The shooters who were good enough opened sites, all small earners because the real money was elsewhere. People like Viv Thomas, Suze Randall, Steve Hicks, Deni de Francesco and more. Many more.

...

Paul, I'm pretty sure I've bought stuff from you, so no disrespect, but you mention in your own post that people like Viv Thomas, Suze Randall, Steven Hicks, and Denys de Francesco can shoot for magazines. I don't particularly consider myself a photographer, but I've had work published by pretty much all the major adult publishing houses. If this is an educational thread, perhaps you could share your thoughts on where I and other magazine shooters are leaving money on the table in 2011.

Cherry7 · 04-12-2011, 03:48 PM

Thank you so much for you comments about two pictures...

OK this is a fail for anything but Ex GF content. Looks like a BF hiding on the floor shooting his GF. Who looks pregnant.

Nice porn picture, girl looking into the with a nice enticing smile, holding up her big tits with nipples and erect and the open pussy is inviting. Only problem is it's at least 1.5 stops over exposed and a white girl is on a white lounger.

These were two of SImon Scans pictures "one of the best photographers posting here " NOT MINE .....

So you two can sort that out

But hey I don't blame you two, as Simon Scans has 503,687 photos on his site it is bound to be sausage factory...

Pauls point was that today's internet sausages arn't as good as those old Magazine sausages, and that sausages should be better made.

Simon doesn't like his sausages cut in strange places.

Paul is going to write a book (even though he says you can't learn anything from a book) on how to make sausages...

So forgive me if I don't want to do what you do, there is way to much of it about...

Hey look Simon a girl cut in half

Bladewire · 04-12-2011, 04:05 PM

Let's get the word out to programs and content buyers to hire Pual Markham!

I think Paul Markham is the best in our business and deserves a little promotion!

Use these T-shirts and buttons in your sigs and distribute them anywhere else you can on the internet. Let's get more exposure for this all around nice guy and great photographer!

AmeliaG · 04-12-2011, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

Thank you so much for you comments about two pictures...

OK this is a fail for anything but Ex GF content. Looks like a BF hiding on the floor shooting his GF. Who looks pregnant.

Nice porn picture, girl looking into the with a nice enticing smile, holding up her big tits with nipples and erect and the open pussy is inviting. Only problem is it's at least 1.5 stops over exposed and a white girl is on a white lounger.

These were two of SImon Scans pictures "one of the best photographers posting here " NOT MINE .....

So you two can sort that out

But hey I don't blame you two, as Simon Scans has 503,687 photos on his site it is bound to be sausage factory...

Pauls point was that today's internet sausages arn't as good as those old Magazine sausages, and that sausages should be better made.

Simon doesn't like his sausages cut in strange places.

Paul is going to write a book (even though he says you can't learn anything from a book) on how to make sausages...

So forgive me if I don't want to do what you do, there is way to much of it about...

Hey look Simon a girl cut in half

Why are you still here, given that you have such contempt for everyone who is not you and are so impressed with your ridiculous self, Mr Maxim Ford of 27 Birstall Road in London N15 5EN with phone number +44.2078028791?

bronco67 · 04-12-2011, 05:07 PM

After watching tons of porn, I can honestly say that about 5% of them actually know what they're doing.

SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN · 04-12-2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Yes I'm a professional who shoots porn for profit, you seem to be like an amateur who shoots for fun.

The things I critisised like cropping were real basics. You either cut the girls whole foot off or you include all the foot, you don't just cut off the toes. If when you're shooting the girl isn't fitting into the frame you ask her to pull her foot in. Same goes for shaving an albow or side of the leg/arm. Move the girl or come out in the frame.

As for posing I see you just include the same poses we all do. There are 27 basic poses. And from there on it's all variations. You got some of them wrong.

Wedding photographers can be very creative, it depends what you're paying them. Look at Lord Lichfield's wedding photography.

The magazines sold in there 10,000s to 100,000s. They used different shooters in each magazine. So to get a different view point of the same niche/style. Colby never shot like Thomas, who never shot like Medland and none of them shot like me.

Different girls, locations and styles. There fore the magazine was kept varied. Just because you found them boring doesn't mean the millions of magazines readers thought so.

When will you get it?

I'M NOT A PHOTOGRAPHER. I'M A PORNOGRAPHER

Two entirely different things. So stop talking about photography or me being a photographer. It's pornography and pornographer.

Nice picture.

Bill paying porn. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

WRONG! WRONG!

I am a photographer 1st, pornographer 2nd.

I am a musician 1st, guitarist 2nd

I can learn tips and tricks from books, videos and others helpful insight.

The human mind is like a Parachute it only works when it's open.

Paul Markham · 04-12-2011, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Paul, I'm pretty sure I've bought stuff from you, so no disrespect, but you mention in your own post that people like Viv Thomas, Suze Randall, Steven Hicks, and Denys de Francesco can shoot for magazines. I don't particularly consider myself a photographer, but I've had work published by pretty much all the major adult publishing houses. If this is an educational thread, perhaps you could share your thoughts on where I and other magazine shooters are leaving money on the table in 2011.

In 2011 there's little money left on the table. I wrote something here you might find interesting. http://www.gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18...&postcount=101

If you've been published regularly then you're one of the good and bright ones. Far too many were blinkered to only the online market. And it cost them money in the end.

I will write something on marketing, however it will be more about creating something very unique in a mainstream niche so it's not just another little fish in a very crowded pond full of little fish.

Online is all that's left today and for that it has to be different, better and wanted by buyers. Throwing traffic at it no longer works. The cost of traffic has sent many to the wall. And many more going there soon.

Paul Markham · 04-12-2011, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

These were two of SImon Scans pictures "one of the best photographers posting here " NOT MINE .....

So you two can sort that out

And not mine either. Mind you being one of the best here isn't a big compliment.

Quote:

But hey I don't blame you two, as Simon Scans has 503,687 photos on his site it is bound to be sausage factory...

Pauls point was that today's internet sausages arn't as good as those old Magazine sausages, and that sausages should be better made.

Simon doesn't like his sausages cut in strange places.

Paul is going to write a book (even though he says you can't learn anything from a book) on how to make sausages...

So forgive me if I don't want to do what you do, there is way to much of it about...

You really are an idiot. It's not about if Simon likes my work better then his work or visa versa. It's about if members and surfers like it. And the profit it makes.

With ratios and retention as bad as they are and always have been, the surfers and members are voting. Average ratios on a TGP were 1-1,000s, average retention was 3-4 moths. Not good. It means 99.95% of traffic didn't like the content enough to buy and when they did it was rarely good enough to keep them for a few month. People bought the same magazines and DVD for years. Because they liked what was in the magazines and DVD.

We went a different route, which clearly didn't work. http://www.gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18...&postcount=101

Quote:

Hey look Simon a girl cut in half

Nothing special. Amateur in fact and I can't be bothered to teach you why.

Paul Markham · 04-12-2011, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco67

After watching tons of porn, I can honestly say that about 5% of them actually know what they're doing.

In 1995 the 95% would of gone out of business very fast. For 15 years they've had a chance to make some money. Now the'yre off to mainstream or getting a day job. Assuming they lasted 15 years, some of them died out very fast. Anyone remember Unseen World?

And Lady Mischief and her husband's content store?

They were telling me I was clueless and wouldn't last long.

Just like Sausage did.

And many more like them.

DamianJ · 04-13-2011, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Online is all that's left today

But just two posts ago you were going on about how there is still money in mags. And you've bleated on and on about how great DVD sales are in 2011.

HANG ON!

You weren't LYING were you!?!?!?!?!

DamianJ · 04-13-2011, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You really are an idiot. It's not about if Simon likes my work better then his work or visa versa. It's about if members and surfers like it.

In that case he = wins and you = lose.

You're not even fit to clean his shoes!

This is brilliant. I can understand you calling everyone in porn a stupid cunt, but this week you seem to be calling all the shooters that are so far ahead of you cunts.

Nice twist on trolling!

Cherry7 · 04-13-2011, 01:12 AM

It is a point that is a puzzle, Paul Markham, is better porn maker, he worked for high class mags... he had a good head start with a back catalog.....

he also says he can market too.

Why is his site not the top porn site ?

Why don't the punters flock to his better content ?

AmeliaG · 04-13-2011, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

It is a point that is a puzzle, Paul Markham, is better porn maker, he worked for high class mags... he had a good head start with a back catalog.....

he also says he can market too.

Why is his site not the top porn site ?

Why don't the punters flock to his better content ?

If you are better than everyone else on GFY, why don't the punters flock to your content with your "innovative" fake schtick about being a woman making porn?

Paul Markham · 04-13-2011, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

It is a point that is a puzzle, Paul Markham, is better porn maker, he worked for high class mags... he had a good head start with a back catalog.....

he also says he can market too.

Why is his site not the top porn site ?

Because I never put it at the top of my money making tree.

Simon Scans ONLY has his paysite. Nothing else to my knowledge in porn. Apologies to Simon if he does. He spends all his working day to making his site work, getting traffic, keeping affiliates happy, and shooting content.

We have Magazines.

They are just a small collection of the front covers. Mags paid $200 to $600 for just the front cover, plus $1,000 to $3,000 for a set non exclusive.

Cherry7 · 04-13-2011, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

If you are better than everyone else on GFY, why don't the punters flock to your content with your "innovative" fake schtick about being a woman making porn?

Because I am not the master, as Mr Markham claims. I don't claim to be better than anyone else, I state my opinion when other put themselves forward.

You published my address here and my phone number, are you planning a visit ?

We don't make porn we make little erotic movies, more than 50% of the crew are women, but that is not what interests us, we are trying to fill a space bewteen porn and normal cinema... a very lofty idea but very difficult to do as the costs for porn and normal cinema production are so different...

Paul Markham · 04-13-2011, 01:33 AM

And then DVDs

And then paysites.

Paul Markham Teens.

Astral Blue

Content I shot in the UK during the 80 and 90s.

The trick was to shoot one scene and sell it in 4 markets. Well 5 if you include mobile phones, but we do that via the content stores.

Some of you are from one horse towns and can't think wider than that one horse. Of course Simon gets more traffic to his paysite than we do to ours. You all assume the paysite is our top priority. Take off the blinkers.

Paul Markham · 04-13-2011, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

Because I am not the master, as Mr Markham claims. I don't claim to be better than anyone else, I state my opinion when other put themselves forward.

I don't claim to be better than anyone else. In fact in the magazine and DVD world I'm not by any means.

Am I a better shooter than most here? Show me a shooter with my track record to compare me with. It's about $$$$ and nothing else. So long as it's honest $$$$

Quote:

We don't make porn we make little erotic movies, more than 50% of the crew are women, but that is not what interests us, we are trying to fill a space bewteen porn and normal cinema... a very lofty idea but very difficult to do as the costs for porn and normal cinema production are so different...

So show us one of your erotic movies, the movie sample on your site isn't anything like erotic. You're filling the space between wannabe and amateur. And not very well. Lose the arrogance, you don't deserve it.

SimonScans · 04-13-2011, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

So it turns into a pissing contest of who know what about photography...

The photograph I presented was not selected to show off photography but just a typical photo from my site as a typical photo from Paul Markham "The Teacher" site...

It is noticed that you do not do any criticism of Paul's pictures as I see you come from the same school of photography, with its daft rules....

Rules which have nothing to do with photography.

example;
And the crop. OMFG, Just below knee kinda works, but anything mid shin or ankle is just nasty. Quote...

Photos from SImon Scans

I think this speaks for itself....

Your photography is just dull, it is competent but where is the desire to try something new, to be creative? To push the borders back a bit...

We would like to spend more time on photography, make less but better, Needing lots of pictures for advertising and as they come second to our films, means that we put a lot of pictures out there that we would not consider great. But at least we are trying to do something different and with a bit of humour and imagination.

Cinema Erotique

Yup. Shot her too. Same pose and everything. If only I had some different and humorous coloured gels.

As for the shower shot. I was trying to do something a bit different and humorous there. What with being sat in the damp corner of a shower cubicle, something was going to get cropped, but in this case, no crop, then no shot either, so a compromise was made. Not the same thing as standing in a field and choosing a nasty crop.

Photography is about breaking the rules, but first you have to know the rules, then you can make a judgement about why and when to break them.

As for implant blondie on the lounger - yes her head is cropped on that thumb, but it's not on the members file. DSLRs shoot 2:3 ratio images but they aren't a great format on pages being a bit long and skinny, something around 3:4 looks nicer, so all the thumbs on that grid layout get a trim top and bottom to fit the layout. Making stuff fit pages sometimes requires compromises.

Look at any magazine and it'll be full of images that have been utterly buggered by designers to fit pages. It's just what happens, but no way can you sell images that have been pre-buggered to those same magazines. Every year photography degree courses chuck out another bunch of kids who's final shows all feature through the forehead crops like wot they saw in magazines - the FIRST thing they learn in the real world is you don't shoot them that way; its what designers sometimes HAVE to do to make them fit pages.

Also worth noting on those grid layout pages only the big image on the left is hand picked, the 2,3 or 4 on the right get picked by a script on autopilot. Saves me time in admin, but works because, most of the time, I shot it as right as I could.

http://www.simonscans.com/tour/tours...508&seriesid=2

http://www.simonscans.com/tour/tours...208&seriesid=2

DamianJ · 04-13-2011, 02:27 AM

I think at XBiz London, we should get Paul, Simon and Cherry to all get their cocks out and piss on each other.

SimonScans · 04-13-2011, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

Your photography is just dull, it is competent but where is the desire to try something new, to be creative? To push the borders back a bit...

I have no desire to annoy my customers and what's new in porn? Every shot needs a pussy light, just like it always has. If you can't see junk it ain't porn - and that limits posing and lighting.

Porn sites are not about creativity and photography, the place for newness and creativity is the girls. Be creative with finding and shooting lame, flakey, can't pose for toffee, NEW girls. Dean Capture, stunning photography, but if I'm honest I can barely be arsed to open the threads. But Naughty Rob? I always open those threads...

Carrie looked bored and dull when I shot her in 2006, she looked even more bored and dull when you shot her - the winner was neither of us, it was Hegre who shot her years before, when she was young and hot.

Fuck creativity, find new girls, everything else is just bollocks. It's the bit of self awareness that PM lacks - what made him great was that at the time he just found girl afer girl after girl, all of them great. No wonder most sites are fucked when nearly 10 years on, half the girls are still working today.

But as for annoying your customers with "creativity" well, good luck with that. I love working in my sausage factory.

Eldon Hoke · 04-13-2011, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

And then DVDs

And then paysites.

Paul Markham Teens.

Astral Blue

Content I shot in the UK during the 80 and 90s.

The trick was to shoot one scene and sell it in 4 markets. Well 5 if you include mobile phones, but we do that via the content stores.

Some of you are from one horse towns and can't think wider than that one horse. Of course Simon gets more traffic to his paysite than we do to ours. You all assume the paysite is our top priority. Take off the blinkers.

Whoever does your design work needs to be stabbed in the eyeballs. It is absolutely fucking hideous.

Paul Markham · 04-13-2011, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldon Hoke

Whoever does your design work needs to be stabbed in the eyeballs. It is absolutely fucking hideous.

The design work on the magazines, DVDs, Content stores or paysites?

Can you show us some of your work. At least Cherry has the balls to.

Or are you just a troll who has nothing to better what I have and know it's best to keep that hidden?

https://gfy.com/members/eldon-hoke/ says you're a model, is that you in your avatar?

Paul Markham · 04-13-2011, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

In that case he = wins and you = lose.

You're not even fit to clean his shoes!

This is brilliant. I can understand you calling everyone in porn a stupid cunt, but this week you seem to be calling all the shooters that are so far ahead of you cunts.

Nice twist on trolling!

Damian in his own unique stupidity trolling style shows one of the main problems with online porn.

"If it's not online it's not making money."

Or not worth learning about or exploiting to add to your income.

Damian you can understand because offline he would be unemployed. Can anyone imagine a proper company employing him as a marketing man? So he's forgiven.

But for many others this blinkered approach has cost this industry billions. They could of learned you don't have to give the product away to sell it. That there were other markets to sell the content which would mean 100% profit. That mixing in a different market they could of learned so much.

Blinkered and it cost the industry, well this part of it, dearly. Online porn is just another way to deliver a product that's sold ever since the dawn of civilisation. It's not any different. Just another way to deliver porn.

Cherry7 · 04-13-2011, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonScans

I have no desire to annoy my customers and what's new in porn? Every shot needs a pussy light, just like it always has. If you can't see junk it ain't porn - and that limits posing and lighting.

Porn sites are not about creativity and photography, the place for newness and creativity is the girls. Be creative with finding and shooting lame, flakey, can't pose for toffee, NEW girls. Dean Capture, stunning photography, but if I'm honest I can barely be arsed to open the threads. But Naughty Rob? I always open those threads...

Carrie looked bored and dull when I shot her in 2006, she looked even more bored and dull when you shot her - the winner was neither of us, it was Hegre who shot her years before, when she was young and hot.

Fuck creativity, find new girls, everything else is just bollocks. It's the bit of self awareness that PM lacks - what made him great was that at the time he just found girl afer girl after girl, all of them great. No wonder most sites are fucked when nearly 10 years on, half the girls are still working today.

But as for annoying your customers with "creativity" well, good luck with that. I love working in my sausage factory.

Thank you for your honesty in that, and I have great admiration on how you have built your site up over the years, as we know the same models I have followed the growth of your site,

I frankly don't have the will power to shoot so much, but also as you do what you do well, what is the point of me trying to do the same thing? I also come from a different photo / cinema tradition so it is far more interesting to try something new. The amazing thing for me is how great it is to try new things now. About 20 years ago I tried to do some shots with UV lights and paint, but the expense and the time to do tests ment the results were always just that, tests. But with the new fantastic DSLRs, it is easy to get the results straight away.

Of course when we look back at photos we have taken we would want to change certain things, but this is the problem of quantity over quality

Cherry7 · 04-13-2011, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

I think at XBiz London, we should get Paul, Simon and Cherry to all get their cocks out and piss on each other.

Paul will be too busy giving you marketing tips....

Paul Markham · 04-13-2011, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

Paul will be too busy giving you marketing tips....

Someone should give him some marketing advice. Like don't shoot a video of your self drunk, in a dump and looking like an idiot.

Learn about the business you're marketing.

Learn about the product you're marketing.

Learn about the customer you're marketing to.

Learn about demographics.

Learn not to look like you're broke.

Caligari · 04-13-2011, 06:04 AM

Great covers Paul, i remember buy some sets with that girl Clara, what a hottie! She made me take "work breaks" on various occasions;)

The thing about including photos is that you could have two different editions, one with PG pics and one with the uncensored pics, this way. Obviously if people are looking to shoot porn they should be looking at it and learning from it. Publishing the uncensored version might be a problem...don't know.

I wonder if the world is ready for porn coffee table books? Those oversized hardcover editions which are more pictorial, but with your history and the amount of material you have you could easily do a good one which would serve as a historical look at porn from the 80's and 90's as well. Just a thought. I think porn has crossed over into mainstream enough nowadays where younger people would buy that more than buy some "Better Homes And Gardens" coffee table book etc.

Hell my coffee table books are "Search And Destroy" about the 70's-80's punk rock scene so there ya go.

AmeliaG · 04-13-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

Because I am not the master, as Mr Markham claims. I don't claim to be better than anyone else, I state my opinion when other put themselves forward.

You published my address here and my phone number, are you planning a visit ?

We don't make porn we make little erotic movies, more than 50% of the crew are women, but that is not what interests us, we are trying to fill a space bewteen porn and normal cinema... a very lofty idea but very difficult to do as the costs for porn and normal cinema production are so different...

You constantly claim to be better than everybody else. You got into this thread to tell Paul how you are so much better than he is, despite the fact that he is hugely more accomplished than you are. You even tried to post some of your images like you thought they were great. And you posted a review from a very low traffic site, where the review goes on and on about you being a woman. The claim that you sometimes hire women at discount rates does not make you a woman, yet you persist in this pernicious fiction. You spammed dozens of my sites, begging for traffic at the same time you claimed to be better than all the sites you were asking for favors from. You are an arrogant loser.

Paul Markham · 04-13-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caligari

I wonder if the world is ready for porn coffee table books? Those oversized hardcover editions which are more pictorial, but with your history and the amount of material you have you could easily do a good one which would serve as a historical look at porn from the 80's and 90's as well. Just a thought. I think porn has crossed over into mainstream enough nowadays where younger people would buy that more than buy some "Better Homes And Gardens" coffee table book etc.

Hell my coffee table books are "Search And Destroy" about the 70's-80's punk rock scene so there ya go.

In the book shop here they have books like that. Shot in a Penthouse or Artistic style, but still porn.

Paul Markham · 04-13-2011, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

You constantly claim to be better than everybody else. You got into this thread to tell Paul how you are so much better than he is, despite the fact that he is hugely more accomplished than you are. You even tried to post some of your images like you thought they were great. And you posted a review from a very low traffic site, where the review goes on and on about you being a woman. The claim that you sometimes hire women at discount rates does not make you a woman, yet you persist in this pernicious fiction. You spammed dozens of my sites, begging for traffic at the same time you claimed to be better than all the sites you were asking for favors from. You are an arrogant loser.

To be fair to him he's an amateur shooter working on a tight budget. I doubt if he's ever had any real training in shooting porn or erotic.

Which sort of sums up a lot of shooters here.

One actually posted that I was lucky to get training from editors and I shouldn't be so hard on those who didn't.

The issue is are the customers as hard?

Agent 488 · 04-13-2011, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caligari

I wonder if the world is ready for porn coffee table books? Those oversized hardcover editions which are more pictorial, but with your history and the amount of material you have you could easily do a good one which would serve as a historical look at porn from the 80's and 90's as well. Just a thought. I think porn has crossed over into mainstream enough nowadays where younger people would buy that more than buy some "Better Homes And Gardens" coffee table book etc.

been books like that for 30-40 years?

04-12-2011, 05:16 AM	#101
american pervert Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,834	positions to pose them in. __________________ I can resist everything except temptation

04-12-2011, 05:29 AM	#102
selena Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: On The Edge Posts: 7,994	While I personally wouldn't buy it for no other reason than I don't plan to take up shooting porn, I think that there is an audience for it. Hell, there are ebooks for everything, so why not this? All trolling and magic join links aside, you do have experience in that arena to share. And as all the shooters were pointing out in a recent thread of someone who wanted to shoot a movie with no experience... just like fucking on film, shooting people fucking is not as easy point and click. Go for it, Paul. __________________ ~ Doer of Things at MetArtMoney Where Flawless Beauty Meets Art ~The MetArt Network ~ selena.delgado9

04-12-2011, 07:56 AM	#107
Cherry7 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	So it turns into a pissing contest of who know what about photography... The photograph I presented was not selected to show off photography but just a typical photo from my site as a typical photo from Paul Markham "The Teacher" site... It is noticed that you do not do any criticism of Paul's pictures as I see you come from the same school of photography, with its daft rules.... Rules which have nothing to do with photography. example; And the crop. OMFG, Just below knee kinda works, but anything mid shin or ankle is just nasty. Quote... Photos from SImon Scans I think this speaks for itself.... Your photography is just dull, it is competent but where is the desire to try something new, to be creative? To push the borders back a bit... We would like to spend more time on photography, make less but better, Needing lots of pictures for advertising and as they come second to our films, means that we put a lot of pictures out there that we would not consider great. But at least we are trying to do something different and with a bit of humour and imagination. Cinema Erotique __________________ My Neighbour Butterfly PORN-The Musical The Long Goodbye Cinema Erotique

04-12-2011, 09:33 AM	#112
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	This thread is interesting with all of the artsy fartsy 'photography' talk. If your fancy skills do not make you some money, the rest of that bullshit is moot. I could be the best at anything to win some e-penis message board contest with complete strangers. But if it does not make me any money in the end, then who fucking cares. No offense ladies. __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

04-12-2011, 03:48 PM	#121
Cherry7 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Thank you so much for you comments about two pictures... OK this is a fail for anything but Ex GF content. Looks like a BF hiding on the floor shooting his GF. Who looks pregnant. Nice porn picture, girl looking into the with a nice enticing smile, holding up her big tits with nipples and erect and the open pussy is inviting. Only problem is it's at least 1.5 stops over exposed and a white girl is on a white lounger. These were two of SImon Scans pictures "one of the best photographers posting here " NOT MINE ..... So you two can sort that out But hey I don't blame you two, as Simon Scans has 503,687 photos on his site it is bound to be sausage factory... Pauls point was that today's internet sausages arn't as good as those old Magazine sausages, and that sausages should be better made. Simon doesn't like his sausages cut in strange places. Paul is going to write a book (even though he says you can't learn anything from a book) on how to make sausages... So forgive me if I don't want to do what you do, there is way to much of it about... Hey look Simon a girl cut in half __________________ My Neighbour Butterfly PORN-The Musical The Long Goodbye Cinema Erotique

04-12-2011, 04:05 PM	#122
Bladewire StraightBro Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Monarch Beach, CA USA Posts: 56,229	Let's get the word out to programs and content buyers to hire Pual Markham! I think Paul Markham is the best in our business and deserves a little promotion! Use these T-shirts and buttons in your sigs and distribute them anywhere else you can on the internet. Let's get more exposure for this all around nice guy and great photographer! __________________ Skype: CallTomNow

04-12-2011, 05:07 PM	#124
bronco67 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 29,032	After watching tons of porn, I can honestly say that about 5% of them actually know what they're doing. __________________

04-13-2011, 01:12 AM	#131
Cherry7 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	It is a point that is a puzzle, Paul Markham, is better porn maker, he worked for high class mags... he had a good head start with a back catalog..... he also says he can market too. Why is his site not the top porn site ? Why don't the punters flock to his better content ? __________________ My Neighbour Butterfly PORN-The Musical The Long Goodbye Cinema Erotique

04-13-2011, 01:33 AM	#135
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	And then DVDs And then paysites. Paul Markham Teens. Astral Blue Content I shot in the UK during the 80 and 90s. The trick was to shoot one scene and sell it in 4 markets. Well 5 if you include mobile phones, but we do that via the content stores. Some of you are from one horse towns and can't think wider than that one horse. Of course Simon gets more traffic to his paysite than we do to ours. You all assume the paysite is our top priority. Take off the blinkers. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

04-13-2011, 02:27 AM	#138
DamianJ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land Posts: 15,808	I think at XBiz London, we should get Paul, Simon and Cherry to all get their cocks out and piss on each other.

04-13-2011, 06:04 AM	#146
Caligari Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: At The Mountains Of Madness Posts: 5,414	Great covers Paul, i remember buy some sets with that girl Clara, what a hottie! She made me take "work breaks" on various occasions;) The thing about including photos is that you could have two different editions, one with PG pics and one with the uncensored pics, this way. Obviously if people are looking to shoot porn they should be looking at it and learning from it. Publishing the uncensored version might be a problem...don't know. I wonder if the world is ready for porn coffee table books? Those oversized hardcover editions which are more pictorial, but with your history and the amount of material you have you could easily do a good one which would serve as a historical look at porn from the 80's and 90's as well. Just a thought. I think porn has crossed over into mainstream enough nowadays where younger people would buy that more than buy some "Better Homes And Gardens" coffee table book etc. Hell my coffee table books are "Search And Destroy" about the 70's-80's punk rock scene so there ya go. __________________ ATTN Webmasters Cruel Bucks - LIVE Gonzo Does Not Pay ------------------------------------------------ Animal Rescue Click Here to Feed An Animal for Free