The free porn model is here to stay.

[Paul Markham]

And those who give away the most and best free porn will have the most traffic that converts at the worse ratios. In general we know this is the rule that has applied since the early days of online porn and it still applies today.

It's here to stay until they can think up of an air tight world wide law that stops free porn.

If that free porn is to the level of this shot.



Conversions will be as high as 1-20 on all traffic.

If it's to the level of Pornhub, Youjizz, etc. It will be 1-20,000 (argue with the figures to side track the truth.)

Complaining about user uploads, piracy and the rest is a side show. You're shouting at the clouds.

No side tracking with abuse or telling me I didn't know it 5 years ago. No one knew it 5 years ago. Or if they did they ignored it. It might of interfered with their job of giving away free porn.

[Paul Markham]

The only thing I know for certain is the free porn available online will grow conversion ratios will get worse and the new traffic won't fill the gap.

[Tijuana_Tom]

There is ZERO reason why it has to stay or should stay.

There is ZERO reason why anyone should EVER accept FREE PORN as our future.

I refuse to ever accept that anything should be free just because people have decided it should be based on self centered reasons.

There is no reason why ANYTHING on the internet should be free.

It has become "OK" and "Expected" because you fucking morons let it.

*facepalm* smh

[Tijuana_Tom]

No fucking shit people want porn for free. lol.

It's the fucking oldest jokes in the book.

Lets get Hugh Hefner on here telling us about people sharing and photocopying his magazines. lol.

Did he just give the magazines away for free and rely on ad revenue?

IS ANYTHING FREE? LOOOOOOOOL

[rock-reed]

Micropayments for porn is what is needed.

itunes like but for porn

[Tijuana_Tom]

Paul that picture is soo fucking creepy holy jesus christ. how do you make 2 girls kissing look creepy?

[Tijuana_Tom]

You guys were supposed to use black hat means to control the industry and keep porn profitable.

Nathan? Manwin? has now indirectly done this likely after realizing you all fucked up.

The idea that "He is making money." is never an acceptable excuse to something that could negatively affect the profitability of your business or industry.

[Tijuana_Tom]

Oh

and lets not get me started on those of you who FUCKED THE CUSTOMER OVER with your bogus members areas and credit card fraud and viruses.

*facepalm*

[tabasco]

Isn't there a jigsaw forum or something you could troll instead of here?

[Mr Pheer]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

No side tracking with abuse or telling me I didn't know it 5 years ago. No one knew it 5 years ago. Or if they did they ignored it. It might of interfered with their job of giving away free porn.

I knew it the first time I saw a tgp site. And that was like 12+ years ago. I stared at my monitor in disbelief that anybody could be so fucking stupid to give away that much free porn. And still feel that way today. Movie posts just made it worse.

My methods of traffic generation have never been popular with anyone else that wasnt capable of doing it themselves, and I get less than 10k uniques a day, but my join ratios have never been better than they are now. 1:20 on my worst sites and up to 1:2 on my best. I give away nothing. As a matter of fact, if you dont join my site, you dont get to see a fucking thing except for the images behind the lightbox that you cant even click on.

[Tijuana_Tom]

TGP worked extremely different from Tube sites.

I don't even know where to start explaining this to people who should be experts on it.

TGP was very short clips, chopped up, tons of brand advertising. Kind of a pain in the ass for the surfer.

You all let it get too easy for the surfer to find free porn.

I know for some surfers hunting down free porn was a respected skill and now those same guys are just going to xnxx and getting their fix immediately.

[Tijuana_Tom]

The biggest sales in Porn come from spontaneous/impulse purchases.

You lost those with tubesites.

MFC is collecting that money now ;)

[sandman!]

thank you captin obvious

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by rock-reed

Micropayments for porn is what is needed.

itunes like but for porn

Might do, but it would kill the affiliate model and most moaning are affiliates.

This is for most the real problem.

If a band let's say Radiohead managed to get every single free coy of their music online or even 90%. Excluding samples. Sales for their product would boom.

If a porn site, let's say Brazzers, removed every single free copy of their porn sales wouldn't boom.

The product isn't in demand enough to stop people switching to another porn label doing the same.

So crash the price of porn site memberships, not selling individual scenes. Like $5 for 50 scenes. Now make it profitable. I could because my content production was paid for by offline sales.

So crash the price of individual scenes. To $1 so viewing 30 scenes costs $30. Or 10 cents so it costs $3. Make it profitable.

The balance between free and paid. Then profit and loss will always rule.

Giving away a weeks supply of anything will kill sales that week, hopefully hooking people to buying a years supply.

Giving away a weeks supply of anything every day will kill sales. TGPs killed magazine sales, whether they killed some paysite sales is something we can only guess at. 1-100 viewers not buying is an indication. 1-200 viewing is a very good indication.

We fed a lot of people with free porn and only looked at tour conversions.

[nextri]

It's not gonna change. Any new law that will help fight it, will only increase the amount of piracy going on. Adapt or die, there are plenty of ways to make money from "free porn".. Some companies are blooming, and it's not because they are running illegal tube sites, or are giving away the content for free. 10 years ago, when the online porn business was allegedly so much better, the amount of people with access to a high speed internet connection was probably 20% of what is is today, if not less. High speed internet is becoming available to new market every day, and new payment options to bill in new countries are emerging. There is a lot more money being spent in total on porn today, than there were 10 years ago, it's just reaching different pockets. Those who didn't adapt, are crying about it before deciding to die instead.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by nextri

It's not gonna change. Any new law that will help fight it, will only increase the amount of piracy going on. Adapt or die, there are plenty of ways to make money from "free porn".. Some companies are blooming, and it's not because they are running illegal tube sites, or are giving away the content for free. 10 years ago, when the online porn business was allegedly so much better, the amount of people with access to a high speed internet connection was probably 20% of what is is today, if not less. High speed internet is becoming available to new market every day, and new payment options to bill in new countries are emerging. There is a lot more money being spent in total on porn today, than there were 10 years ago, it's just reaching different pockets. Those who didn't adapt, are crying about it before deciding to die instead.

Saying There is a lot more money being spent in total on porn today, than there were 10 years ago. is foolish I can prove you wrong in minutes. Include offline and make a case to show us. Offline sales moved to online and this killed offline as I knew it. Today there's nothing of offline left to kill. so the killing of sales is online.

Free porn is here to stay. It will kill sales.

The question now is how to adapt, can we adapt and is adaptation going to be profitable.

1. Open a Tube and/or sell traffic to what's left.
2. Promote Webcam and Dating, until they go free.
3. Produce porn that's do great people have to buy it.
4. Retire.
5. Move to mainstream.
6. Get a real job.
7. Sell to the new countries, India, China, Ghana etc.
8. Got any better ideas?

Nextri the last question was for you. Can you explain more about the new countries part. The actual new countries we're meant to sell to. Because with the coming crisis of the Euro, some of the old countries might not have as much to spend on porn.

[AdultKing]

What makes you think the only way to monetize a user is to make them pay cash for access ?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

What makes you think the only way to monetize a user is to make them pay cash for access ?

What makes you think somewhere 1-1,000 of users doesn't have to spend money to monetise him?

You can sell/send traffic to free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites.

But somewhere someone has to get some cash out of them.

How do you run your empire with your logic?

[Mr Pheer]

How to make money on the internet in three simple steps:

1. Post all the free porn that you possibly can, to attract as many freeloading surfers as possible.

2. Put up geo-targeted webcam and dating ads.

3. Profit!!

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Tijuana_Tom

Paul that picture is soo fucking creepy holy jesus christ. how do you make 2 girls kissing look creepy?

It's a gift he has.

I think if you couple together the marriage of a creepy dirty old man that likes to look at naked young girls and cop a feel when he can, with a scared, desperate eastern european girl solely doing it for the money, you get PM content.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Saying There is a lot more money being spent in total on porn today, than there were 10 years ago. is foolish I can prove you wrong in minutes. Include offline and make a case to show us.

Go on then. And try to not just pull figures out of your arsehole.

[AdultKing]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

What makes you think somewhere 1-1,000 of users doesn't have to spend money to monetise him?

You can sell/send traffic to free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites.

But somewhere someone has to get some cash out of them.

How do you run your empire with your logic?

You're not really that bright are you Paul ? If that's your demonstration of lateral thinking then it's no wonder you're posting threads like this. You just don't get it.

[CurrentlySober]

Can someone send this 'Free Porn Model' over to me please?

Every time I book and shoot a porn model, they usually asked to be paid at the end of the shoot...

TIA

[raymor]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

What makes you think somewhere 1-1,000 of users doesn't have to spend money to monetise him?

You can sell/send traffic to free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites and they can sell/send traffic to more free sites.

But somewhere someone has to get some cash out of them.

How do you run your empire with your logic?

Last year Google made $38 billion giving stuff away, without selling porn or dating. Youtube made a billion while greatly reducing the amount of pirated content they have.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by raymor

Youtube brought in a billion dollars last year while greatly reducing the amount of pirated content they have, and without selling porn or dating.

Don't let pesky facts get in the way of a Markham rant!

[AdultKing]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Don't let pesky facts get in the way of a Markham rant!

He assumes when we talk about free porn we mean pirated porn. He just can't think outside his little box.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Mr Pheer

How to make money on the internet in three simple steps:

1. Post all the free porn that you possibly can, to attract as many freeloading surfers as possible.

2. Put up geo-targeted webcam and dating ads.

3. Profit!!

Yes this will still work and why free porn is here to stay. Until webcams go the MFC route and surfers realise Lots Of Fish is better value. Then what?

The problem isn't that free porn is free. It's that on so many levels it's better than paying for porn. Leaving this.

The question now is how to adapt, can we adapt and is adaptation going to be profitable.

How can the porn industry adapt to a model where paying for porn is better than getting it for free. Then can we do it and do it profitably? I don't know and obviously few do. Otherwise they would be doing it.

Until then your model is the best.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by raymor

Last year Google made $38 billion giving stuff away, without selling porn or dating. Youtube made a billion while greatly reducing the amount of pirated content they have.

I know you don't think that applies to porn sites giving away porn to sell porn. You're far too clever for that.

Originally Posted by AdultKing

He assumes when we talk about free porn we mean pirated porn. He just can't think outside his little box.

I think all free porn.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I think

Prove it.

[AdultKing]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The question now is how to adapt, can we adapt and is adaptation going to be profitable.

That might be the question for you, some people have started to work it out and are busy implementing ideas.

Users have value above and beyond the initial subscription you might get out of them.

[Paul Markham]

Taking time out to make a cup of tea I thought longer on Mr Pheer's model.

Yes it clearly works. Yet to make it work well and make a living from it, it requires one very essential element. Content. Traffic is cheap and to be found. Content isn't. It will cost money.

Either the money of the producer and he will expect sales in return, or investment in buying content and this is the best model. See signature.

Then the next steps are a site, tube script, design, sponsors and traffic.

Adopting this model is the same as Google's model. giving away one thing to sell another. Targeting the advertising in relationship to the porn being looked for. so if the guy wants teen porn, offer him teen dating or webcam ad so on.

Giving away free recorded porn to sell porn is not what Raymor meant and I'm sure he knows that isn't working today.

Now can the recorded industry give away free dating and webcams to sell recorded porn or damage those businesses? Doubt it.

Originally Posted by AdultKing

That might be the question for you, some people have started to work it out and are busy implementing ideas.

Users have value above and beyond the initial subscription you might get out of them.

This man adapts by the hour. He was telling us recently he doesn't need them to buy something. This is the kind of wisdom coming from a porn guru who runs an empire of businesses. We should all listen to him about selling something to a member after he's become a member. Pure genius insight like this should not be missed.

[PR_Glen]

ratios mean fuck all if you have volume... ask walmart..

[AdultKing]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

This man adapts by the hour. He was telling us recently he doesn't need them to buy something. This is the kind of wisdom coming from a porn guru who runs an empire of businesses. We should all listen to him about selling something to a member after he's become a member. Pure genius insight like this should not be missed.

So you seriously think that a user has no value unless they pay you a modest subscription fee ? No wonder you're retired.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Traffic is cheap and to be found. Content isn't. It will cost money.

Then the next steps are a site, tube script, design, sponsors and traffic.

How's your tube project going Paul?

Traffic is easy, a tube script is cheap, and design is a piece of piss, as you know wiht your awesome sites.

So the only thing missing is content, something you have tons of.

So where is PaulMarkhamTube?

[ruff]

It is exactly the reason McDonald's went with the dollar hamburger. The mainstream food equivalent of free porn. Doubled their income stream. Free is good.

[CaptainHowdy]

[BAKO]

Can u put a sock in it already. Who gives a fuck what u say with your magic joins. Idiot

[DWB]

Originally Posted by raymor

Youtube made a billion while greatly reducing the amount of pirated content they have.

Youtube is turning a profit now?

About time. I thought they were losing millions. Just last year I read Google was still trying to find a way to make it profitable.

[Eyeball]

You are wasting your time talking to peddlers/chancers who throw as much shit up the wall as they can, hoping some of it will stick.

None of them pay models/whores or pay to produce the content that they give away for free.

[Roald]

I want to stab myself in the eye....

Just sayin.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

ratios mean fuck all if you have volume... ask walmart..

Shhhhh, no common sense allowed in Markham threads.

[baryl]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Might do, but it would kill the affiliate model and most moaning are affiliates.

I don't see why micro payments would kill the affiliate model.
A surfer would likely actually spend more over time with cheaper, a la carte style pricing than with a big, expensive memberships. Not to mention you're probably going to having more people willing to fork out a few bucks than sign up for a $50 membership.
Affiliates would still be getting their revshare from that and probably making more overall as would program owners

[Bugbee]

Originally Posted by Roald

I want to stab myself in the eye....

Just sayin.

QFT!!!

[nikki99]

go paul!

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

ratios mean fuck all if you have volume... ask walmart..

How is your hosted Tube doing these days?

So let's look at this solution.

If a site 20 million people coming to it every day, it can sell the traffic at say $3 per 1,000.

20,000,000 and 1-50 click on an advert. 400,000 = $1,200 a day.

Now deduct the cost to run the tube and getting 20 million surfers.

I think I got the figures right. Argue about the ratios, the principal is the same.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Eyeball

You are wasting your time talking to peddlers/chancers who throw as much shit up the wall as they can, hoping some of it will stick.

None of them pay models or pay to produce the content that they give away for free.

Maybe as many as 95% earning off the "porn traffic" model. don't spend a penny to produce the content they must have. To make a dime.

Originally Posted by baryl

I don't see why micro payments would kill the affiliate model.
A surfer would likely actually spend more over time with cheaper, a la carte style pricing than with a big, expensive memberships. Not to mention you're probably going to having more people willing to fork out a few bucks than sign up for a $50 membership.
Affiliates would still be getting their revshare from that and probably making more overall as would program owners

There's nothing more micro than free.

OK let's go with your idea. 30 days for how much?

Let's say $10.

Now figure all other costs are fixed, so the site now needs a much larger chunk of the $10 or 3xmore sign ups.

$10 a month and all the risks associated with paying or free?

The problem isn't only that free is free. It's better than paying for it. Unless you absolutely can't have anything but HD of a particular porn site and no one has pirated it.

[Failed]

The sky is blue.

[raymor]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I know you don't think that applies to porn sites giving away porn to sell porn. You're far too clever for that.

Google doesn't give away maps in order to sell maps. They don't give away gmail in other to sell gmail. Facebook isn't free because they are trying to sell Facebook. Facebook is bringing in $4.8 billion giving stuff away, and it isn't by selling profiles or porn.

[DamianJ]

It's all just too much for him to wrap his little head around.

[baryl]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Maybe as many as 95% earning off the "porn traffic" model. don't spend a penny to produce the content they must have. To make a dime.



There's nothing more micro than free.

OK let's go with your idea. 30 days for how much?

Let's say $10.

Now figure all other costs are fixed, so the site now needs a much larger chunk of the $10 or 3xmore sign ups.

$10 a month and all the risks associated with paying or free?

The problem isn't only that free is free. It's better than paying for it. Unless you absolutely can't have anything but HD of a particular porn site and no one has pirated it.

I was thinking more along the lines of $5 per full, HD movie. Maybe $3 SD. Hell, even $1 bargain bin movies. They buy 10 movies and they've already paid more than what they would have with a membership and you get a ton more people buying single movies here and there that may have never considered a membership.