100 Israelians

What Bertrand Russell 20th century mathematician and Albert Einstein friend wrote in the 70's, still true today :2 cents:


"Israel has expanded by force of arms. After every stage in this expansion Israel has appealed to "reason" and has suggested "negotiations". This is the traditional role of the imperial power, because it wishes to consolidate with the least difficulty what it has already taken by violence. The aggression committed by Israel must be condemned because every expansion is an experiment to discover how much more aggression the world will tolerate.

The tragedy of the people of Palestine is that their country was "given" by a foreign Power to another people for the creation of a new State. How much longer is the world willing to endure this spectacle of wanton cruelty? It is abundantly clear that the refugees have every right to the homeland from which they were driven, and the denial of this right is at the heart of the CONTINUING conflict.

We are frequently told, "We must sympathize with Israel because of the suffering of the Jews in Europe at the hands of the Nazis." What Israel is doing today cannot be condoned, and to invoke the horrors of the past to justify those of the present is gross hypocrisy."

Because of the fact that Israel gets bombed on a regular basis, they've set up a blockade around certain areas. The ships knew of the blockade, and had the intention of running the blockade thinking Israel would stand down. But at the end of the day, when your intentionally violating the laws or rules of another country by plowing through a fucking blockade and helicopters are landing military comandos on your ship, well, it's time to back down - not attack them with clubs, knives, and maybe even handguns.

If this was a fucking humanitian mission, why did they have handguns?

At this point it doesn't matter who was right or wrong. When the military of any country boards a ship, right or wrong, lawful or not, you stand the fuck down. Because the military of any country is going to have a lot more firepower than any civilian ship.

As for the blockade, you can debate the legality of that until your blue in the face. The United States did it to Cuba and demanded to inspect Russian ships. (Okay, we didn't call it a blockade we called it a quarantine - same difference.)

I'm not saying that Israel is right here. I could care less about Israel, and if they were no longer a country in the morning I'm sleeping fine. But when a civilian fleet intentionally runs a military blockade, well, there's gonna be bloodshed. Period.

The reason Israel gets away with so much shit is because the alternative to supporting Israel is not even plausible. Some day open up the Qur'an and have a look see.

qft.....

If Israel wasn't getting away with that shit fewer people would be opening the Qur'an :2 cents:

MaDalton is cool. Why do you attack him?

Yeah, I guess that would be good if you're Islam! :1orglaugh That no one opens it and has a look at what is written in it LOL

The Germans called this "Lebensraum" or "living space". Seems Israel is doing the same thing, but much slower.


At some point in time we need to understand that not every race or nationality needs to have it's own country.

Take the Middle East out of it, and replace it with - say - Europe. The Basque. They are a unique culture and consider themselves a nationality, based mostly in France and Spain. They two have been involved in terrorist acts, mostly bombings, and mostly to try to gain attention to their cause. However, does this give them the right to have their own country? Should France and Spain suddenly take one third or one fourth of their country, and turn it over to the Basque so they can create their own country? What about the French and Spanish citizens who live in these areas? Should they be removed from their homes? By force? Who will compensate them?

And thus is the problem. Not every race or nationality will have it's own land, it's own country, and it's right to self determination.

You're not suggesting that Israel didn't deserve to become Israel, are you?

US and Israel have deep historic ties together.
Israel will fight no matter what.
US will support Israel no matter what.
Arabs will fight no matter what.
World has a bright future ahead.:helpme

What you are describing is ironically exactly what happened in Palestine.

Half the country was turned over to the minority Jewish community against the will of the population.

Actually your so far off it isn't even funny. Britain promised Israel and tried to pull out and we backed Israel up and fuck Britain at the time considering our history with them then. In WW I we held back cause we didn't give a fuck about Europe or Britain.

I will say - Israel created terrorism - that is a fact when they were having problems with Britain after Britain reneged!

I said half of what use to be Palestine was turned over to the Jewish community.

I didn't elaborate, go into British rule etc... so how exactly was what I said wrong?

Yet another classic post. Keep it up guys. The ignorance is overwhelming.

Well, I guess in this one case, the lack of elaboration would explain A LOT~! :1orglaugh

palestine gets bombed on a daily basis , i don't see hamas searching israeli ships.

The difference is israel kills thousands of women and children with their bombs, and you can count on your hand how many terrorists rockets kill israeli's every year
the ships knew blocking humanitarian aid was illegal and the actions israel took were illegal, so they were doing everything legal by INTERNATIONAL law.
the blockade is illegal. if you intentionally stop an unarmed civilian aid convoy and slaughter it's occupants , you can expect to catch flak .

the video shows no handguns, it shows a guy with a pole doing something , an idf guy falling , people running everywhere thats about all i saw. Didn't see any injured idf , saw lots of dead and injured civilians, no weapons other than idf weapons. Haven't heard of any idf being shot .

If the police stopped a city bus to search for weapons and 1 guy had a handgun does that give the right for the police to open fire on the bus occupants who may have no affiliation or knowledge of the 1 guy with a gun ?




your right , regardless the answer isn't to slaughter innocent unarmed civilians delivering medical supplies.
international law says it's illegal, there isn't much to debate.
we also used to have slaves and burned women who could swim, should we start doing that again too ?


we do agree on one thing, it wasn't a very smart idea, desperate people are forced into desperate measures.

curious to know who was shot.. this is pretty crazy

well the palestinians did have their own country, and it was given away.

Look, if you want to get technical AMERICA created terrorism when we wouldn't stand in lines and fight the British but chose to hide behind trees and create guerillla warfare and no one, and I MEAN NO ONE has tried emulate us more than the ARABS when going against their enemies...

But don't think for one second the JEWS are trying to be these subsimissive cooperative individuals you're trying to make them out to be, and I'll be they are being told not to be also! :thumbsup

Yes it does :thumbsup but how many people here know about the Jews of Palestine fighting British rule with militias, kidnappings, bombings (including the British headquarters)...or how the US fucked over the Brits to force the creation of Israel... etc

You guys are getting sidetracked with this "who started terrorism" shit.

Let's face it, terrorism was created by the fucking cavemen.
One dude had some dinosaur short ribs on the barbie, and another dude was throwing rocks at him to try and "terrorize" him to create an opportunity to steal it.

Now then... can we get back to the Jews and Arabs fucking each other?

btw the report of handguns is that when the idf intially got on the ship they were swarmed and some of the soldiers had their pistols stolen. the only weapons found so far on the ships were some slingshots and of course some knives , but you cant have a boat without a knife of some sort.

Well it is being reported...as well as by video...that some of the ones shot were Israeli forces. It is being reported that the Israeli forces boarded the vessels with riot control weapons and side arms...and it was only after Israeli forces were attacked...stabbed...shot and thrown overboard that the Israeli forces used their side arms...and engaged with deadly force.

Okay, everyone is correct. We're here and now! :thumbsup

You are very connected to the Jews of Palestine and I'm not sure what you are getting at but have a good idea.

It is good too see a country that is willing to try and protect their borders and citizens. It would be nice to see the US follow this example. :2 cents:

Nope you don't. Jewish revolt against the Brits preceded Israel's creation, how am I suppose to call them?

No way, how dare you! Israel created terrorism and is the epitome of terrorism! Obama should do something about it! Lol

Yet you conveniently forget Arabs revolted against the Brits, which eclipsed what the Jews did.

neither Israel nor Palestine are right in this conflict, so they should just stop the attacks on each other and sit down to negotiate; without attacking any more ships, of course!

It's not about deserve...

What happened to them does not mean, they can be given the right to steal another Country, murder people, act like terrorists to those people and basically tell everyone to fuck off at every corner.

The only reason it happened and continues to happen is that stupid ass book of lies.

Apparently you've ignored the past 62 years of Middle Eastern History, nor understand what "stealing another country means", nor are even able to judge the situation objectively. This is why nobody takes you seriously.

Most people know nothing about the Jewish insurection which is why I brought it up.

Anyway I have no interest in discussing politics with a yapping teenager. Sorry kid.

that's not what i've been reading or seeing on videos. got a source?

Isn't boarding a ship in international waters considered piracy?

Well, despite this little spat, what the Jews have on their side is that any move against them is comparable to genocide. This is crap, but I don't blame them for feeling that way.

Problem is we have to move past...

Not sure myself the Arabs don't want all Jews DEAD! I want to think this is bull crap but I kind of believe that Muslims want the Jews Dead. Why? And how do we handle this?

Yes...watching the news media...and I watched the video...showing the force that was used against the Israeli forces as they boarded one of the vessels.

Yawn.. as already stated in this thread, you're unable to debate anything in this thread... as usual, you post garbage and liter threads with your repetitive spew.

I sssume that you must be aware that there has not always been a country of Palestine...and that at different points of time in history...the country of "Palestine" was controlled by various countries...some of which no longer exist...and that at one point in time "Palestine" was the nation of Israel. My point being that to use the term "to steal another country" really does not have any meaning of import. Through out history it pretty much boils down to "might is right"...and is applicable to our own country.

If you keep a cat in a cage he is going to come out scratching, do you put him back in the cage or let him out and try to live with him?

I don't know the answer

but I do think who holds the most power holds the most responsability, so really right now any solution can only come from Israel. If they really want a solution that is of course:upsidedow

You believe Isreal has any real power?

Of course Israel has been trying to resolve the matter and at one point had agreed to 90 plus percent of Palestinian demands but at the very last moment Arafat refused.

Just to remind you all what happened last time with the Karin A.....
https://youtube.com/watch?v=az1HW0sGkEo
and this is what I and my kids have to deal with a lot lately
https://youtube.com/watch?v=9rHK3d5FGN8 this is what happens when Israel does not inspect ships... which is 300 meters from where I live with my wife and kids...

what are 15 seconds for you?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hUBX8ROqLwE


This is my reality... So I am all for the humanitarian aid, but let's verify it really is humanitarian aid, and not weapons....

:2 cents:

First part - yes, second part - derp?

What does the thread have to do with it? If someone makes a statement that is anti-Israeli policy people automatically pull the jew-hater card out and throw it on the table or they rack up a ton of excuses why its ok.

Israel attacked and boarded foreign vessels in international waters. What is there to defend?

I couldn't agree more. :2 cents:

Is Arafat still ALIVE?

I certainly hope you are against Arizona's new racial profiling law.
Because according to the GFY experts, to the conquerors go the spoils.

"All lands are invaded and conquered, it's just a fact of life, get over it." is what I'm used to hearing. So if that still applies, then the Palestinians got exactly what they deserved. They lost. Now they can deal with it.

He's intellectually superior. Just take his word for it.

No...but his rejection is alive and well...but what Israel was willing to agree to at that point in time...I do not think is alive and well...so the Arabs continue to shoot themselves in the foot.