Actually labor laws don't apply here.
I worked for a car dealer once, and we caught him cooking the books in order to pay us less $$ in commission.
Alot of us called the state labor board and/or local attorneys, all of whom told us that "labor laws" don't really appy to commissioned employees.

And in this circumstance, you aren't even a commissioned "employee". In other words, you don't have a written or unwritten "employement contract" with any of your sponsors. You are an independent contractor, similar to an advertising agency that a company would hire to do commercials or print ads for its products.

I'm not saying that you don't have a case at all (I'm not a lawyer so how would I know) but I really don't think "labor law" is going to help you very much in a situation like this.

Good point Lenny and I hope my site is more clear now. Thanks guys for your help, have a good week!

Mark

Still no further response from DFA?

I think alot of program people are avoiding this thread.

call me blind, but doesn't it still read on the main page "$ 40 per sign up garenteed" ??

http://www.intensecash.com/main.htm

Shit like this thread helps to open a lot of eyes. Use common sense and ya won't get bit in the butt! :thumbsup

oh my god! look at their retention percentage. lol

6 or 7 %. That is rediculous! If this is a partnership you deserve to get ripped off for promoting such garbage.

My site retains at 50%. lol, WTF???

Shemale club - 340 Trials with only 22 conversions. Truly pathetic.

Hi Coy,

My designers will be changing that shortly. Thanks for letting us know we want our site to be as clear as possible,

Thanks,
Mark

:)

Might want to have your designers take a look at your sig while they are at it

Nbritt

Ha! Ha!

:glugglug

spammer so what? spammers are scum.

Nope........new contest, how long until another sponsor is caught?

I didnt read the entire thread so maybe I missed it but can we get some identity on the person(s) involved in this? you know damn well another program will be out in 3 months...

Not sure what happened to the orginal person that posted the message but his handle was JJMedia. Have a good one.

Mark

AMEN!

Why don't we draw up something like GFY blacklist where all the scammers would be mentioned? In a few days this thread will be lost in a bunch of latest messages and dollars4all will continue shaving newcomers. IMHO collected experience is the most effective thing against such bastards.

http://www.goodbadugly.info/ is a good place to post the info on Dollars4All for a more permanent record.

Heh..speaking of "shaving" makingbank.com is running an $84 per trial day..But i assure you there is NO shaving going on :1orglaugh

Actually they won't shave you at all.

Good luck getting a check though

BUMP for the world to see :)

I second that notion.

I really don't see how these sponsors can pay out so much without shaving somewhere. It really isn't about how much you are going to get paid a signup anymore, it is more about if they shave, if they are going to pay you etc. There is really no reason for any sponsor to shave in my opinion. There is plenty of money to be made without screwing anyone over. I can't understand why a sponsor would ever screw a webmaster over PERIOD. Webmasters sending the traffic are responsible for most of a sponsors success.

Mark

:ak47: ALL SPONSORS THAT SHAVE

I am just outraged still about this so I decided to ask my lawyer about this. I just spoke to him and he said the sponsor they shaved can be sued for fraud, etc. They have major problems. I hope every webmaster sponsor that shaves get caught and punished. The industry is becoming a bunch of scam artists etc and headed for the shitter if nothing is ever done about things like this.

Mark

How is one to sue a sponsor that's not based in the U.S.?

I have to talk to my lawyer in the next week reguarding other personal matters, I have been planning to check the laws on these type of issues while I was at it.

If this type of activity is as illegal I as I think I will crack something wide open:321GFY

I believe you can go after anyone anywhere it will just be super expensive if they are not US based. Something must be done or sponsors will just continue to screw everyone over. Fraud is fraud no matter where the hell your at. I am sure visa/mastercard would love to hear about this as well as IBill which is their processor.

Mark

Maybe they will rename the program and come back as, pennies for them dollars for us dot com

Yeah that would be super easy to rename their site and get another dot com but maybe if they get sued and all the processors know about them maybe they will either decide not to shave anymore or will be unable to process credit cards with anyone and have to pay alot of lawyer fees plus judgement costs.

Mark

:ak47: SHAVERS SUCK!

don't think they will get sued though... would any wm REALLY take legal actions against them......

A while ago i found a sponsor with some of it's hosted gallys:
(1) not recorded in stats section days after they were clicked, and
(2) change wm id when clicked/ linked to it's paysite (little one extra alphabet added to the end of wm id... very hard to notice it, but i did....)

I really thought they were mistakes so i observed for about a month on those specific gallys.... then decided to write to the sponsor, and they explained the 'mistakes' were bugs (God knows)... anyways the problems of those specific gallys have been fixed, but who knows if there are 'going to be' other bugs on other gallys that were ok when i checked......

webmasters going after big payouts arent thinking ahead by any means. When i look at a sponsor offering 40 bux a sign-up.. i continue and find a better one because most of their promoted sites suck anyways and beause i know they are goina be shaving my nuts with a rusty razor.

I would SERIOUSLY rather push a sponsor that pays me $9.99 per signup if they ABSOLUTELY did NOT shave. Think about it. Send 100 paying customers to "Mr. paypornsite.com" with no shaving thats $999. Use a 35 dollar per signup sponsor that shaves at 53 percent like most probably do... thats $1225. I think it's worth losing that $225 knowing full well that your traffic is being rewarded 100 percent. And if iw anted to gain that extra $225 I'd just push more fucking traffic to it. Push too much traffic to a shaving sponsor and earn too much, they will just find an excuse to delete you as what has happened with many people I know raking in $$$$ off pay-per-click sponsors OR they would increse the number of razor blades to a nice 70+ shave.

I also look at it this way, with shaving set high.. webmasters may think their traffic is not converting and just dump the sponsor and move on to another one... thus sponsors keep losing webmasters, not that they care anyways. Always having to change sponsors costs us webmasters money because you then have to spend time finding a layout or "trick" that makes the new sponsor convert.:feels-hot

:1orglaugh

yeah Ibill would be furious if someone let them on to the fact that every PPS program that uses them shaves. They have no idea. Especially when the big ones have a house account that makes exacty the same percentage of the sales every month.

I'm really supprised that this has shocked so many people here. It's like you guys didn't think you were getting shaved before this, and that your $3 trials are really worth more than $35 to ARS. The only thing that suprises me is the response by everyone here.

Nobody is surpised that sponsors shave, we are just in an uproar as to the percentage of the shave these fuckwads that got caught shaved. Now we have an excuse to bitch about shavers withought having MR. BigPaySite.com jumping down our fucking throats saying we are ungreatfull little shits.

It's kind of knowing that your spouse is cheating on you but you don't have definite proof. It's when the evidence slaps you in the face that you have no other option but to get pissed off....

we dont even know how to shave, but we do push quality on our paysite. Instead of the crappola thats seems dominant on the net these days, give FTVgirls.com a try. Paysite 4 months old, but with good conversion, and high retention -- for a real fucking reason.

iwantchixx you said that sponsors don't care if they lose webmasters but we definetly care. Webmasters are responsible for over 90% of our traffic. It can also be very expensive finding new webmasters.

There is no way a sponsor can pay $50 per signup when they only charge $35 or $40. We pay as much as possible and I don't see how sponsors can pay so much with all their content, hosting fees, advertising etc. I think when looking for an affiliate if they pay way over what their monthly fee is for members they would have to shave somewhere.

Even though we have been online since 1997 we have never shaved. This year we decided to go to 3rd party stats and payments, shaving is now impossible. I still don't understand why any sponsor would ever shave being they need webmasters to survive and are really responsible for their success. Everyone is so greedy and will walk over everyone to get their money, it really makes me sick.

Mark

I can't help but think that some of these comments in this thread come from people with ulterior motives (ie: programs that pay low % amounts) or webmasters that can't quite get their heads around the affiliate business model.

Don't get me wrong, ANY AMOUNT of shaving sucks, and these people shouldn't be in business.

High pay per signups on free trials have always bothered me - so I have never promoted them.

I currently send traffic to a program that pays a very high % rate on all revenue - but they don't lose money from my initial signups because it is always just a % figure.

They make all their money from the exit traffic - end of story.

They pay me $0 for any signups after the first site that is hit. This suits me.
The STATS TRACKING is controlled by the 3rd party billing company and the checks come direct from the billing company.

I have got to know the principle of the program and I am 100% sure of their integrity. I also think it is a viable business model - and if I had any doubts, I would go elsewhere.

:2 cents:

You hit the nail on the head

Bump - for more people to see, it was getting toward the bottom of the page.

Yeah, you think they could have came up with a code word or something. Instead of putting a flashing sign saying "Hey this is what I've shaved today!"