My YouPorn Discussion with VideoBox

[TarPy]

TarPy (12:33 PM) :
http://youporn.com/watch/37997 - 388K views
http://youporn.com/watch/42166 - 579K views
http://youporn.com/watch/29166 - 296K views
http://youporn.com/watch/149061 - 150K views...


BTW, there are 4 infringements with your advertisement links on it. And over 1.1million associated viewings.

So, you porn didn't clean up anything

alisonVB (12:34 PM) :
hi
TarPy (12:34 PM) :
What's up
alisonVB (12:34 PM) :
ah, not much.
alisonVB (12:34 PM) :
was that an email to someone in particular?
TarPy (12:36 PM) :
No, just pointing out that weeks after the show, the claim that "YouPorn has cleaned up" is still totally bogus.
alisonVB (12:36 PM) :
gotcha.
TarPy (12:37 PM) :
and that a source of your ad traffic is pages with direct infringement, and you may want to consult your affiliate about that behavior
alisonVB (12:37 PM) :
we don't advertise with them
TarPy (12:38 PM) :
Your ad is right on those pages.
alisonVB (12:38 PM) :
our ad? or our link?
TarPy (12:40 PM) :
A link to your products on a page would constitute an advertisement, would it not?

And I referred to them as an affiliate, with an account that you pay out on, correct?

So it's fair to say you compesate them for the behavior of placing that link on their pages, no?

And those pages frequently contain infringements, and the specific pages I just sent you all contain both your links and infringement.. Links you compesate them for....


TarPy (12:40 PM) :
Whatever noun you'd like to call that placement.
alisonVB (12:41 PM) :
i'm just making sure i understand what you're saying, chief.
alisonVB (12:41 PM) :
you're an intense dude
TarPy (12:41 PM) :
in this case, you're allowing Theft of SpunkyCash, and Kate's Playground, to be a source of traffic for video box.

That's what I'm saying.
alisonVB (12:41 PM) :
yes, they're our affiliate
alisonVB (12:41 PM) :
i see
TarPy (12:41 PM) :
And yes they are infringing.
TarPy (12:41 PM) :
And yes, you've been notified of that behavior.
alisonVB (12:41 PM) :
i never said they weren't
alisonVB (12:42 PM) :
but it's not me who needs to be notified
TarPy (12:42 PM) :
So, I'd advise in your case, that you should at very minimum send them a letter, requesting that your links be removed from the links I just sent you, or optimally, that the affiliate review their content for theft of SpunkyCash, and the Site, Kate'sPlayground.com because there are 50 other full length videos I didn't send you links for.
TarPy (12:43 PM) :
And if you don't, some courts could see that you are complicit in the behavior, and compensate it knowing clearly it's origins.
alisonVB (12:43 PM) :
ok, look, you are talking to the wrong person
TarPy (12:43 PM) :
And that in a way of looking at things, you pay youporn to infringe your competition's content to create traffic to video box.
TarPy (12:44 PM) :
So, That's just a way of looking at things.
TarPy (12:44 PM) :
And this is just what the courts term "Constructive legal notice"
alisonVB (12:44 PM) :
not really
alisonVB (12:44 PM) :
i'm not an officer of the company
alisonVB (12:44 PM) :
i have no power either way
alisonVB (12:44 PM) :
IMing me some crazy threats does not constitute any notice
TarPy (12:44 PM) :
If I'm talking to the wrong person, it's your duty to cut, paste, print and bring it to their desk.
alisonVB (12:45 PM) :
i don't believe so
TarPy (12:45 PM) :
I'm not threatening anything. I'm simply saying that an affiliate is infringing content belonging to SpukyCash, and your response is surprising.
TarPy (12:46 PM) :
I just wanted record that I both told you what was up, and that you chose not to acknowledge any responsibility for it, and continued to pay that affiliate. Later on someone will probably ask you what action you took regarding this complaint. I hope you have more to say than "Nothing"
alisonVB (12:46 PM) :
if you want to notify videobox of something, do it through your lawyer
alisonVB (12:47 PM) :
i'm not personally trying to have an issue with you, but you are being extremely aggressive toward me as a person and i don't appreciate it.
alisonVB (12:47 PM) :
so please, if you have something to say that involves the legality of something the company is doing, direct it through the proper channels
TarPy (12:48 PM) :
http://katesplayground.com/2257.html There's the link to the custodian of records if there's anyone at your company who wants to follow this up with the owners of the copyright.
TarPy (12:48 PM) :
A court would see this as a proper channel.
TarPy (12:48 PM) :
You work there, you know the address of the right people, you can cut and paste.
alisonVB (12:48 PM) :
ok, look. i'm not sure why you're directing your hostility at me, but i'm done.
alisonVB (12:49 PM) :
please don't IM me again
TarPy (12:49 PM) :
I'm not being hostile towards you, I asked you to print this convorsation, and go sit it on the right person's desk. But your company assured me that You Porn had cleaned up it's act, and I was just letting you know that you are ill informed.
TarPy (12:50 PM) :
Just asked for 5 minutes of your day, to help out someone who's being stolen from, really.


Thoughts? ?

[commonsense]

Are the guys at Videobox associated with Guba? Something I heard a while back.

[seeric]

intense?

shit she hasn't met me yet. lol.

[Socks]

Strange one.. Alison has always been very fair and accommodating from my dealings with her, she even got me a bunch of crazy reports about my sales and traffic numbers I wasn't able to get through their program..

I'm still not clear who she thinks you should be contacting about this though?

[TarPy]

I found it interesting that althought she was admant that she was just simply not the right person to talk to, she failed to give me a URL, E-mail, Phone, or Address where I might be able to contact someone to help Spunky.

[TarPy]

this was my favorite part.


TarPy (12:41 PM) :
in this case, you're allowing Theft of SpunkyCash, and Kate's Playground, to be a source of traffic for video box.

That's what I'm saying.

alisonVB (12:41 PM) :
yes, they're our affiliate

[Rochard]

Cliff notes anyone?

[Socks]

riiiiicccccchhaaaarrrdd

[lazycash]

Lol, guess she's too lazy to either tell you who specifically in the company to talk to and how to reach them, or forward your message to them herself.

[DateDoc]

Yeah, I have to agree. This was a classic, "Not ME!" but failed to tell you who you needed to contact.

[3xTom]

Hell yeah Tarpy this is fucking awesome I am so glad to see someone with the balls enough not to back down from these people and their oh its ok to steal as long as it isnt me Ideas they have

[TarPy]

At very minimum, I hope we can get these four vids down.

Anyone like to add any more links of their stolen shit to this list, to try to get your stuff taken down at the same time?

[GotGauge]

I will be checking for our stuff!

[Dollarmansteve]

Your conversation is akin to yelling at the McDonalds cashier because you found a finger in your hamburger.

Although your stance is completely correct, what good does is really do to yell at an affiliate rep? If I were her instead of saying just "I'm the wrong person" I would say "I'm the wrong person to yell at, please direct your important yelling at this person.. someone who can actually deal with the issue".

[Joe BrainCash]

Originally Posted by TarPy

At very minimum, I hope we can get these four vids down.

Anyone like to add any more links of their stolen shit to this list, to try to get your stuff taken down at the same time?

I'll check for ours! Good job bro!

[Joe BrainCash]

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

Your conversation is akin to yelling at the McDonalds cashier because you found a finger in your hamburger.

Although your stance is completely correct, what good does is really do to yell at an affiliate rep? If I were her instead of saying just "I'm the wrong person" I would say "I'm the wrong person to yell at, please direct your important yelling at this person.. someone who can actually deal with the issue".

I'm not too sure about the yellin..I didn't get the aggressive vibe while reading it...And yes, that's exactly what she should have done, direct him to the right place...My 2 cents

[PennyLane (not Flame)]

Originally Posted by BrainPat

I'm not too sure about the yellin..I didn't get the aggressive vibe while reading it...And yes, that's exactly what she should have done, direct him to the right place...My 2 cents

Exactly what I was thinking when I was reading it......

[TarPy]

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

Your conversation is akin to yelling at the McDonalds cashier because you found a finger in your hamburger.

Although your stance is completely correct, what good does is really do to yell at an affiliate rep? If I were her instead of saying just "I'm the wrong person" I would say "I'm the wrong person to yell at, please direct your important yelling at this person.. someone who can actually deal with the issue".

She could let her burger shift manager know there was a complaint, and what the customer said, and if important the shift manager should probably tell the day manager, or the location supervisor, who would likely call coperate.

There's a chain of command, not just "Not Me"

Allison damn sure knew the address of legal, and she can cut and paste, but chose not to.

Also, there is a case where a customer did inform either a dell or gateway location directly, then sued corporate years later. The court held that the location was a valid place to notify.

If Allison is an employee, not a contractor. They've been notified, up to them to do something or remain complicit in the infringement.

[Perfect Andi]

So, 1) why does everyone sweat VB if this is the treatment? They are very highly regarded. 2) Spell her name right, yo.

[Ninja_Pete]

Sounds like she got a little nervous and outta her comfort zone. I am sure she will tell someone about that conversation though, haha.

[newbreed]

Awesome, firing up the DMCA machine again...

[commonsense]

Bump.



Videobox is a great site, but Alison's responses need work. Good for you TarPy

[V_RocKs]

Now CALL the owner of the company. Or better yet, send them a registered/certified letter.

[MarcWomack]

Originally Posted by TarPy

I found it interesting that althought she was admant that she was just simply not the right person to talk to, she failed to give me a URL, E-mail, Phone, or Address where I might be able to contact someone to help Spunky.

TarPy,

Damn bro, when did you get so wound up? Heh, I remember you being a lot more laid back. I gotta stick up for Alison here man. I know her pretty well and she's always been rock-solid with us.

If I didn't know you from adam and you came at me that hard I might have been defensive too. Ok, well, heh I'm a dick so I would have turned offensive. Point is Alison is newer to this game so she doesn't know everyone / everything and you did come at her hard and heavy.

Also, heh, no way a random IM could serve as official DMCA notification. No court on earth would see it that way.

YES, it would have been all kinds of better if she's followed up "I'm the wrong person" with "you should talk to _____________". But the way you came at her she just shut down.

Was the point of your IM to bitch someone out or affect a change? If it was really to get something done you would have gotten a lot further if you toned it down a bit. If the goal was just to get something off your chest, score, you did that.

Bro, I've known ya for a long time so please don't think I'm talking shit or trashing you. You know I respect you. I'm just respectfully suggesting that if you want to get through to someone, less aggressive is more effective.

[MediumPimpin]

Originally Posted by TarPy

She could let her burger shift manager know there was a complaint, and what the customer said, and if important the shift manager should probably tell the day manager, or the location supervisor, who would likely call coperate.

There's a chain of command, not just "Not Me"

Allison damn sure knew the address of legal, and she can cut and paste, but chose not to.

Also, there is a case where a customer did inform either a dell or gateway location directly, then sued corporate years later. The court held that the location was a valid place to notify.

If Allison is an employee, not a contractor. They've been notified, up to them to do something or remain complicit in the infringement.

Way to go dude, theft is theft, go get em!

[Chio]

See sig if you want to start fighting back.

[TarPy]

on that particular day, it's hard to say I had a goal other than helping spunky out.


I recognize that Kate and Spunky put a lot of hard work into creating that content, and I spoke with Allison about this issue in person in Phoenix, so I expected her to be more receptive or responsive about the issue. I had contacted mike the day before, and he didn't respond at all to the initial report.

I guess what I'm saying is that anymore, constructive information, trying to look out for fellow webmasters, this is all pointless, unless you send legal paperwork.


How come I can't just point out theft, and expect honest people and programs to want to help me take care of it?

A little note to their affiliate, ICQ or E-mail getting at least JUST THOSE videos down...

I mean, they acknowledge in the ICQ that they know the site infringes, but one would think they would still respond to specific complaints.



So, Mark, I appreciate your thoughts, and I've actually decided to take a more formal, I feel constructive approach to things, but you're right, I am a more laid back relaxed guy, and I wish just telling people about theft got the action and response it should, so I wish this issue could still be dealt with that way. Apparently, we all have to get a little more formal with our requests.

[Jace]

i didn't see you being agressive or yelling, you actually seemed very rational

[TarPy]

http://youporn.com/watch/37997 - 388K views

as a matter of note, this video still works, and is up to

415K views, meaning in 7 days this video was infringed another 3,850 times a day since then.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Jace

i didn't see you being agressive or yelling, you actually seemed very rational

I agree ,my guess is she defensive because she knows what the fuck is going on and doesnt give care as long as they make their money.
If this was a surprise it would went like:
Oh my god really, Im so sorry. I dont handle that, please forward this info to ........ and I will followup with them to make sure they got it. This is fucked up and we will handle it.

The problem is the people who are fucking this industry in the ass, aren't the stereotypical evil people. They are nice sweet people with big smiles. So people seem to forget as nice as they are, they are part of a large problem that hurts us all as a whole.

[TarPy]

Mike from video box has informed me that the four videos cited in this thread have been removed. and THEY ARE GONE




http://youporn.com/watch/49926
http://youporn.com/watch/26041
http://youporn.com/watch/44095


However, YouPorn's assistence was minimal, there are still many watermarked infringements up there. I hope videoBox continues to pressure youPorn to clean up its act.

babysteps.

[TarPy]

Alison, I'm sorry if my tone was aggressive and bothered you.

I know Kate personally, and the infringements really get under my skin.

People have told me that you were simply not ready for that kind of discussion and may have felt overwhelmed. I apologize for that.

[TarPy]

Originally Posted by tony404

The problem is the people who are fucking this industry in the ass, aren't the stereotypical evil people. They are nice sweet people with big smiles. So people seem to forget as nice as they are, they are part of a large problem that hurts us all as a whole.

Yea, I'd rather someone call me an asshole and give me $20.

Than someone who tells me I look great today, then lifts $200 out of my wallet, and buys me a $6 drink with my money.

[CarlosTheGaucho]

What's impressive about youporn is that you have those already flash encoded videos available to download, handy for other illegal tube sites to get fresh content and to encourage the dream of their operators - user submissions (DMCA covered updates of stolen content).

[born2blog]

Why was it so difficult for her to pass the info along and how was that being aggressive?

[over38]

These videos are still up...............................

Originally Posted by TarPy

Mike from video box has informed me that the four videos cited in this thread have been removed. and THEY ARE GONE




http://youporn.com/watch/49926
http://youporn.com/watch/26041
http://youporn.com/watch/44095


However, YouPorn's assistence was minimal, there are still many watermarked infringements up there. I hope videoBox continues to pressure youPorn to clean up its act.

babysteps.

[Matt 26z]

Why single them out? You could call out every single sponsor, EVERY SINGLE ONE, for profiting off tube sites with unauthorized content on them.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by DateDoc

Yeah, I have to agree. This was a classic, "Not ME!" but failed to tell you who you needed to contact.

[TheSenator]

Originally Posted by TarPy

Alison, I'm sorry if my tone was aggressive and bothered you.

I know Kate personally, and the infringements really get under my skin.

People have told me that you were simply not ready for that kind of discussion and may have felt overwhelmed. I apologize for that.

watch out....she may pull out the "rape" card.

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by TarPy

Alison, I'm sorry if my tone was aggressive and bothered you.

I know Kate personally, and the infringements really get under my skin.

People have told me that you were simply not ready for that kind of discussion and may have felt overwhelmed. I apologize for that.

Could you imagine making a statement like that to a dude? "You may have felt overwhelmed". Being female certainly does have it's advantages in business sometimes.

[Snake Doctor]

Even though in principle you were right to contact them about this and they should do something about it....she was professional and you were a dick, and she tried to tell you that you needed to contact someone else and you wouldn't STFU.

It would be like me having an argument with a Wal-Mart cashier about the company's environmental standards in China and expecting her to do something about it or notify someone who could do something about it.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by TarPy

She could let her burger shift manager know there was a complaint, and what the customer said, and if important the shift manager should probably tell the day manager, or the location supervisor, who would likely call coperate.

There's a chain of command, not just "Not Me"

Allison damn sure knew the address of legal, and she can cut and paste, but chose not to.

Also, there is a case where a customer did inform either a dell or gateway location directly, then sued corporate years later. The court held that the location was a valid place to notify.

If Allison is an employee, not a contractor. They've been notified, up to them to do something or remain complicit in the infringement.

You never asked for the address of legal, instead you told her that SHE needed to bring it to legal.....again like telling the Wal-Mart cashier that she needs to bring your complaint directly to the CEO.

Her reply to your hostility was
alisonVB (12:46 PM) :
if you want to notify videobox of something, do it through your lawyer


She told you SEVERAL times you were talking to the wrong person, and you never once asked who the right person was. You just continued on your tirade using big words you had just looked up in the thesaurus and the legal dictionary to try and intimidate the lowest ranking person in the company.

I seriously doubt your Dell or Gateway precedent is going to hold water when it comes to sending an IM to someone who for all you know could be an independent contractor.

Also, when it comes to copyright infringement, you damn well know that the people you "notify" are the people who are doing the actual infringing. If some blog was stealing your articles and using adsense on their pages you wouldn't contact someone from google on ICQ and threaten them.


The fact of the matter is, you had no intention of notifying the proper people and having action taken, if you did you would have emailed webmaster@ or legal@ the appropriate domain.
Instead you chose to pick on an affiliate rep, and we all know that most of them don't know much if anything at all, so that you could create some drama on GFY. You're pissed off about something to do with youporn and videobox and you started all of this to get your pound of flesh.

[TarPy]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

You never asked for the address of legal, instead you told her that SHE needed to bring it to legal.....again like telling the Wal-Mart cashier that she needs to bring your complaint directly to the CEO.

I guess that's a relavent comment, excepting that she's a few steps away from the right people, knows their names, and goes out on trips with them.

Does the cashier at Wal-Mart know the CEO personally? Alison knows the right people, she was sitting right by them, not at a register states away from corporate. I was asking her to walk about 5 steps to help.

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Her reply to your hostility was
alisonVB (12:46 PM) :
if you want to notify videobox of something, do it through your lawyer


She told you SEVERAL times you were talking to the wrong person, and you never once asked who the right person was. You just continued on your tirade using big words you had just looked up in the thesaurus and the legal dictionary to try and intimidate the lowest ranking person in the company.

She was just ducking the fact that they are outright stealing, and she wasn't going to do anything about it.

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

I seriously doubt your Dell or Gateway precedent is going to hold water when it comes to sending an IM to someone who for all you know could be an independent contractor.

A good point if she wasn't an employee working out of their main office, but she is.

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Also, when it comes to copyright infringement, you damn well know that the people you "notify" are the people who are doing the actual infringing. If some blog was stealing your articles and using adsense on their pages you wouldn't contact someone from google on ICQ and threaten them.

Threats wouldn't be necessary, google suspends the account and investigates infringement, they will actually pull listings from their engine too. Don't worry, I am gunna send google papers too. There's plenty of precident for that, I'm sure VideoBox's lawyers are looking into those laws now, and finding I'd have a pretty good case.

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

The fact of the matter is, you had no intention of notifying the proper people and having action taken, if you did you would have emailed webmaster@ or legal@ the appropriate domain.
Instead you chose to pick on an affiliate rep, and we all know that most of them don't know much if anything at all, so that you could create some drama on GFY. You're pissed off about something to do with youporn and videobox and you started all of this to get your pound of flesh.

Criticize my actions all you want, the videos are down, and the right people in that company have open lines of communication on the issue.

So what I did worked, how's what you're doing going?


Oh yea, you aren't really doing dick about the issue, just throwing your . Throw it into a legal fund that's going to sue the infringers and vicarious benefactors next time..

At least then you'll be on a winning side of the table.

[TarPy]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Why single them out? You could call out every single sponsor, EVERY SINGLE ONE, for profiting off tube sites with unauthorized content on them.

i'll give you 3.

Braincash

PremiumCash

Naughty America.

Go find me a fucking ad on an infringing site. C'mon, do it. They are doing just fine without paying out money to theives.

[TarPy]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

you started all of this to get your pound of flesh.

Close, I got a pound of flesh for SpunkyCash, as their program is being exploited for profits over at VideoBox.

So, in fair competition, I think VideoBox's brand needed a smear for what it's doing, and Spunky Cash needed a plug, because he's got great content worth stealing.


Maybe videoBox can give spunky some of their videos to put in HIS member's area.

You know to make things right....


I wouldn't hold my breath on that one though....







NOTE: If YOU are profiting off of infringement, if you are infringing. I AM COMING FOR YOU, and I WILL GET THAT POUND OF FLESH.

Call it a retro-active licensing fee.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by TarPy

I'm sure VideoBox's lawyers are looking into those laws now, and finding I'd have a pretty good case.

Actually you have absolutely ZERO case since 1) You're not the copyright holder and 2) A program is not responsible for the content of sites that link to them.

Google may play ball because they're a publicly traded company and don't want the bad PR of a lawsuit....but how many people have sued AFF so far?

Not many content producers are willing to take a 6 figure gamble on creating a new precedent in copyright law.


All of that being said....YES, sites that steal content suck and their owners should be hung up by the balls. YES companies that profit from said theft are also scum and should be boycotted by the rest of us.
You still handled this wrong, none of the content being stolen was yours, so you have no standing to even contact youporn, much less their advertisers.....like I said before, you're just pissed of at one or both of them and started this little fiasco to get even. You had no intention whatsoever of "getting content removed" or "making things right".

[The Duck]

Really intense

[Joe BrainCash]

Originally Posted by TarPy

i'll give you 3.

Braincash

PremiumCash

Naughty America.

Go find me a fucking ad on an infringing site. C'mon, do it. They are doing just fine without paying out money to theives.

Very true!

[ladida]

Originally Posted by TarPy

Mike from video box has informed me that the four videos cited in this thread have been removed. and THEY ARE GONE

http://youporn.com/watch/49926
http://youporn.com/watch/26041
http://youporn.com/watch/44095

Lol, they're back up :P

[TarPy]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Actually you have absolutely ZERO case since 1) You're not the copyright holder and 2) A program is not responsible for the content of sites that link to them.

Unless of course they are notified that an affiliate is using infringed material, and makes no effort to stop that or terminate his account. Afterwards becoming a vicarious benefactor.

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Google may play ball because they're a publicly traded company and don't want the bad PR of a lawsuit....but how many people have sued AFF so far?

No google plays ball, because they don't need to do business with theives. Neither does anyone else.


Some choose to, others like BrainCash and NaughtyAmerica, do not.

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Not many content producers are willing to take a 6 figure gamble on creating a new precedent in copyright law.

.... Yes, what will we do about that.... hehehe

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

All of that being said....YES, sites that steal content suck and their owners should be hung up by the balls. YES companies that profit from said theft are also scum and should be boycotted by the rest of us.

So, you agree that what video box is doing is wrong, and that they SHOULD be boycotting them.

You just also think I'm an asshole that handled it poorly? That's fine, at least we agree on VideoBox's conduct.

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

You still handled this wrong, none of the content being stolen was yours, so you have no standing to even contact youporn, much less their advertisers....

Actually, anyone with a good faith belief that there is infringement can give notification.

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

like I said before, you're just pissed of at one or both of them and started this little fiasco to get even. You had no intention whatsoever of "getting content removed" or "making things right".

I was piseed at both of them, one for stealing, and the other for paying them to steal and keep stealing.

I got content removed, I feel things are on their way to right. Want to help?