bush declares war on iraq - Page 5 - GoFuckYourself.com

insidethegame · 10-07-2002, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
Sorry to see ya go my son!!

Enjoy the game!!

Webby if Im your son youve been on the European version of Medicare for many years..probably spending it all too aint ya;)Now I am out of here;)

Lexxx · 10-07-2002, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elephant_Gut

So hell yes.... Let's kick the shit outta Sadman Hussain

Being the most powerful nation on earth has its perks.

Hee. Hee.

It's a pity that things like kids running around shooting up other kids in schools and snipers on the loose shooting up bystanders have to happen here.

Seriously.

And the economy that's in a deep dog's shit (and then some).

Ahhh, we have nothing better to spend money on than going to war and then rebuilding the hospitals that we will bomb the shit out of.

Middle East is such a place of tranquility that Bush is gonna just march up there and finish up what his father had started... oh, god.

drew · 10-07-2002, 09:29 PM

More crying bitches from Europe. hehehe
Dont be mad that your country doesnt mean shit.

Phil21 · 10-07-2002, 09:31 PM

This thread just underscores my desire that the US just go back to being isolationist.

Sure, the economy will suffer short-term (and long term of course). But once we get off oil, and have our foriegn relations consist of non-goverment controlled trading then I think we'd be better off. Then if some country allows a company to "exploit" cheap local labor, they have no one to blame but themselves. (hell, I allready believe that).

Then we can just let the rest of the world lay waste to itself eventually, since every crackpot would know that the we'd stand by and watch (Save perhaps the UK and England.. they are cool in my book). Let the liberal pansies in the EU get rolled over by tanks again, and see if anyone else steps up to the plate.

At least we wouldn't hear these idiots complaining about foriegn policy then. We would of course have to endure them whining about us NOT doing anything, but I'd feel a whole hell of a lot better being bitched for NOT paying for some fucktard, than being told I'm an evil baby killer and having the pay for the privilege.

Fuck the rest of the world, let them live how they want I say. We can run our lives, you run yours. Just don't come whining to us when you fuck it up like you have before (yes, the US was begged to get into WWII far before pearl harbour).

Yes, I know this will never happen. But I really do wish "globalization" ceased to exist and this would be feasible.

Bah. Stupid world. I just want to live in my own country the way I want w/o liberal pukes telling me how I should live. I say lets turn back to clock and go back to the pioneering days. ;) No one gave two shits about us then.

-Phil

Webby · 10-07-2002, 09:42 PM

Globalisation - albeit totally insignificant in this case, but the reason we see credit card problems with VISA recently.

The ambitions of VISA, now that they have "expired" the economics of loans on cards, now wish to dominate a "cashless society" globally - using your VISA card of course!!

drew · 10-07-2002, 09:47 PM

When US says JUMP, you'd beter JUMP LOL
Military Power still matters. When someone talks about strong nations they dont talk about "moral values". They are only four nations today with powerful military:
US
UK
Israel
Russia
The rest is just JOKE.

Amputate Your Head · 10-07-2002, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drew
When US says JUMP, you'd beter JUMP LOL
Military Power still matters. When someone talks about strong nations they dont talk about "moral values". They are only four nations today with powerful military:
US
UK
Israel
Russia
The rest is just JOKE.

might wanna throw China in that list dude.... hehe....

PornoDoggy · 10-07-2002, 09:50 PM

Yeah, Phil ... isolationism worked so well the last time. Maybe you should head up to Montana or Idaho ... you can be a pioneer up there.

Webby · 10-07-2002, 09:51 PM

"Strong" nations don't need moral values... the word ain't in the dictionary...they choose to "avoid" them until they "need" em...

Webby · 10-07-2002, 09:52 PM

PornoDoggy:

Love it!

Nice country!!

drew · 10-07-2002, 09:58 PM

China doesnt belong there. Nuclear weapons dont mean strong military. I even think that Russia is falling from that group lately.
Fuck give Europe back to Russia, they will take care of those cheese eating smelly assholes

Webby · 10-07-2002, 10:02 PM

Sheesh... so far we got "America Haters" and "Europe Haters"... next?? Wanna draw up that list of the rest of the world and we can all "label" each other and abuse the fuck outta each other? This is more to life than that shit.. believe me!!

PornoDoggy · 10-07-2002, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
PornoDoggy:

Love it! Nice country!!

Yeah, well, there are lots of lunatics running lose in my country, and in lots of other countries. The folks who react to this whole situation with the same tired, cold-war relic "America bad, America oppressive, it's all about oil" stuff" for example.

Assume for just a moment that Saddam decides to give away some of his toys to Islamic fundamentalists. Ya think he would hesitate to see it used on ANY Western country? Now, which country would be closest to the largest concentration of Islamic people, and is a place already known to have a large degree of al Qaida operatives in it? Maybe some folks are harboring some resentment over, oh, stealing a part of what they consider to be a part of thier country?

Lexxx · 10-07-2002, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drew
When US says JUMP, you'd beter JUMP LOL
Military Power still matters. When someone talks about strong nations they dont talk about "moral values". They are only four nations today with powerful military:
US
UK
Israel
Russia
The rest is just JOKE.

And you might wanna throw Israel outta there..

Any nation with nuclear weapons can wreak havoc... so it includes Palestine & India as well

PornoDoggy · 10-07-2002, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drew
China doesnt belong there. Nuclear weapons dont mean strong military. I even think that Russia is falling from that group lately.
Fuck give Europe back to Russia, they will take care of those cheese eating smelly assholes

Damn. I'm suddenly getting a flashback to the 50s. What was the name of that book I'm trying to think of?

Oh, yeah. The Ugly American .

drew · 10-07-2002, 10:06 PM

We should take our troops back home from Europe and next time they start killing each other over there, just let them.

Lexxx · 10-07-2002, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drew
Nuclear weapons dont mean strong military.

They don't have to...

drew · 10-07-2002, 10:11 PM

Israel has one of the best trained military force in the world.

Webby · 10-07-2002, 10:25 PM

PornoDoggy:

Mmm.. Ya covered a lot of ground there! ... And I can't begin to suggest a solution to the world's security.

Some things I can only surmise on are that I do not believe Saddam is "x weeks away from nuclear" whatevers. This is a point of controversy with the Admin and people who actually have inspected Iraq.

Yea.. there is one big fucking problem it he ventures to provide some terrorist organization with facilities to manufacture either nuclear or biological weapons...

However... not by one long shot, is Saddam the only possible supplier to any such organization.. what were "friends" of the US in the past (some are now!).. have this capability. Many weapons have been supplied to countries in the past and this has subsequently backfired. Suppose the top of the list is US followed by UK - both sustained good ecomonic rates due to arms trading. At one time over 25% of the UK's exports comprised arms trading.

As for bin Laden blah... he and is countrymen fought on behalf of the "west" and were supplied with arms to do this. Then, when the battle time passed and he became expendable, there were many broken promises by western powers. So hell... I dunno! :-)

There is no way any sane person can condon violence, either on Sept 11 incident or by bombing others. There is also no way any sane person can consider invading a country and putting their own citizens lives at stake and the many others who will suffer in the process without having a very just cause.

At the end of the day, people have to talk and try and understand the opinions of others. Forget the stupid people who break promises and try to be smart.. they don't count. Ya just gotta stick with it and "talk extensively" before committing to action. Don't know... but get this nasty feeling if the US embarks on any "invasion", this will cause unending problems for both the US and many other countries (too complicated to discuss here!!) ... and will .. well.. just be so damning to the US and I for one, certainly have no wish to see this come to pass.

This is not one bit "easy" for a President... but I somehow think he may be badly "offline" here.

theking · 10-07-2002, 10:38 PM

"Ya just gotta stick with it and "talk extensively" before committing to action."

The quote above is from you Webby. We have talked for 11 years with the Iraqi government, and the UN, in an effort to get Iraq to abide by the agreements made after their military forces were defeated on the field of battle. How much longer do you suggest we talk before we act? I might point out that during that period of time he has attempted to assassinate an American President, has fired hundreds of times on coalition aircraft in the no fly zones, has repeatedly called for Americans to be killed where ever they are found, has funded suicide bombers in Israel etc.

SextrafficPete · 10-07-2002, 10:45 PM

"Israel has one of the best trained military force in the world."

so why hasn't the musad assasinated saddam?

they are the best of the best

PornoDoggy · 10-07-2002, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
PornoDoggy:

There is no way any sane person can condon violence, either on Sept 11 incident or by bombing others. There is also no way any sane person can consider invading a country and putting their own citizens lives at stake and the many others who will suffer in the process without having a very just cause.

I don't buy your arguements for one minute. Saddam has chemical and biological weapons. We know this, because the Reagan and first Bush administrations sold them to him, or allowed him to acquire them with a wink and a nod. Where and how he got them is a question that will be very valuable in a future discussion of how my country conducts its foreign policy in the future, but has no relevance now.

Saying that going after him is as wrong as the 9/11 bombers is nuts, IMHO. That very same logic was applied by France and the UK in 1936 when Hitler reoccupied the dimilitarized areas, and in 1938 when they "negotiated" with him over Chechosolvakia. They didn't make "immoral" decisions - and look what it got them.

Pleasurepays · 10-07-2002, 10:50 PM

mm.. Ya covered a lot of ground there! ... And I can't begin to suggest a solution to the world's security.

thats clear - so far you suggest "peace at any cost"
------------------------------------------
Some things I can only surmise on are that I do not believe Saddam is "x weeks away from nuclear" whatevers.

nobody said he was weeks away from anything... particularly concerning Nuclear weapons
------------------------------------
Yea.. there is one big fucking problem it he ventures to provide some terrorist organization with facilities to manufacture either nuclear or biological weapons...

-- no shit - he needs to be stopped
-----------------------------------
However... not by one long shot, is Saddam the only possible supplier to any such organization..

--- how many is too many to do anything about? if there is more than one... does this mean doing nothing because you can argue all day long that the other is just as dangerous?
-------------------------------
what were "friends" of the US in the past (some are now!).. have this capability. Many weapons have been supplied to countries in the past and this has subsequently backfired.

-- the world is an imperfect place. the issue is security today... not security 50-40 or 30 years ago
--------------------------------
As for bin Laden blah... he and is countrymen fought on behalf of the "west" and were supplied with arms to do this.

-- they fought on behalf of themselves because they were being invaded.
------------------------------------
Then, when the battle time passed and he became expendable, there were many broken promises by western powers. So hell... I dunno! :-)

--what promises were broken in Afghanistan?
--------------------------------------
There is no way any sane person can condon violence, either on Sept 11 incident or by bombing others.

-- no one suppports violence. the issue is not violence. the issue is survival. Maybe you should send the fruit basket to Osama Bin Laden... i would prefer that he is killed.
--------------------------------------
There is also no way any sane person can consider invading a country and putting their own citizens lives at stake and the many others who will suffer in the process without having a very just cause.

-- what invasion? do you know something the Pentagon has not told us?
---------------------------------------
At the end of the day, people have to talk and try and understand the opinions of others.

-- you call Osma Bin Laden and try to "work it out". lets record it and post it on the web. Explain to him that he religion does not actually demand that he kills all infidels... continue to explain that it is not his duty to kill infidels. keep explaining that they wont really secure a place in paradise for themselves and their families for fighting their self declared "Holy War" and tell them that the whole 72 virgins thing is a bunch of BS
-------------------------------

Webby · 10-07-2002, 10:50 PM

*The quote above is from you Webby. We have talked for 11 years with the Iraqi government, and the UN, in an effort to get Iraq to abide by the agreements made after their military forces were defeated on the field of battle. How much longer do you suggest we talk before we act?*

As long as there is no "imminent danger" you talk as long as it takes. It has still not been established that there is, in fact, any danger from Iraq. All that has been said so far, is "words", - even the US Admin had to 'cool' some of the propaganda they issued... eg.. "terrorist cells working in Iraq" when the story was just not credible. (but hell.. there may well be!!*g*) ....

If you are talking of broken promises... just take a look at the US Admin... in particular the current Admin .. they have broken so many promises and treaties ... signed many and then just filed them, never to be implimented. So, Saddam ain't the only one to have broken his word!

We gonna "invade" the US now cos they broke their word? Na.. too silly! Back to the start... ya gotta "keep at it" with anyone like Saddam.. or the US.. or any nation that agrees to something and does not produce the goods until they do comply with promises/undertakings. Yea.. can bore the scull of ya in the meantime *g* But sure beats murdering thousands over some "agreement"! It's called "persistance".. and.. (hell, this is a first! *g*) .. gotta say George has put the pressure on there, and he *might* just pull it off....

[Labret] · 10-07-2002, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drew
Israel has one of the best trained military force in the world.

Only because we pay for it.

Take away their American welfare and that country dies. Quickly.

Webby · 10-07-2002, 10:53 PM

Pleasurepays:

Oh fuck.. I ain't gonna bother with that one! If it ain't there to start with.. I ain't no educator .. sorry!

Pleasurepays · 10-07-2002, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
Pleasurepays:

Oh fuck.. I ain't gonna bother with that one! If it ain't there to start with.. I ain't no educator .. sorry!

well i am a little dissapointed that you feel that your view and perspective is the only one that matters.

the UN and Europe was not real concerned about Saddam Hussein violating the terms of his surrender to the UN, the 16 resolutions that have been passed, continuing to develop chemical weapons, interfering with inspections, shooting and coalition planes, smuggling oil............. the list goes on and on.

when someone says "hey, this fucker has to be stopped"... then everyone wants to talk again.

if Europe and the UN Security Council did its job, this situation would not be happening today.

Webby · 10-07-2002, 10:57 PM

*I don't buy your arguements for one minute. Saddam has chemical and biological weapons. We know this, because the Reagan and first Bush administrations sold them to him, or allowed him to acquire them with a wink and a nod. Where and how he got them is a question that will be very valuable in a future discussion of how my country conducts its foreign policy in the future, but has no relevance now. *

You are not saying the US has a "foreign policy"??? Cummon!

So what ya expect from anyone you supply weapons to??? You moaning now they may be used against you???

I thinks we have a totally fucked govt and a totally fucked (if any) foreign policy....

Webby · 10-07-2002, 10:59 PM

Pleasurepays:

No offence pp... but I can't be bothered answering stuff that is well documented already....

Pleasurepays · 10-07-2002, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
[B
So what ya expect from anyone you supply weapons to??? You moaning now they may be used against you???

I thinks we have a totally fucked govt and a totally fucked (if any) foreign policy.... [/B]

assuming it is true that he has chemical weapons from the US which may have been aquired 20 plus years ago... SO WHAT?

whats the relevance to today and todays current situation and todays reality? I have to look at my wife and say "sorry, Carter/Reagan probably got us killed - so we should just wait for it to happen"?

good thinking
the "peace at any cost" philosophy again

when some asshole releases anthrax or small pox into Heathrow Airport and infects millions of people, i am sure you will happily die with the knowledge of how they got the technology 20 years ago.

good luck!

Webby · 10-07-2002, 11:03 PM

[Labret]

Gotta agree on that one!... This was an example ... still is.. of "US aid" ... Israel has been pumped with something over 7 billion in "aid" a year.

The real facts are.... before that is handed over, a reciprocal deal is done to spend that $7 billion on arms from the US... cent for cent.

Webby · 10-07-2002, 11:04 PM

PleasurePays:

Bless you too!

Pleasurepays · 10-07-2002, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
Pleasurepays:

No offence pp... but I can't be bothered answering stuff that is well documented already....

how convienent.
another liberal superstar!
all the answers
none of the facts

Webby · 10-07-2002, 11:07 PM

Whatever ya say

Webby · 10-07-2002, 11:09 PM

Oh forgot... we got "Hate America", "Hate Europe" and now we got "Hate Liberals" to add to the list... sheesh!!

Pleasurepays · 10-07-2002, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
Oh forgot... we got "Hate America", "Hate Europe" and now we got "Hate Liberals" to add to the list... sheesh!!

add "hate ignorance"
so you wont have to post anymore.

Webby · 10-07-2002, 11:11 PM

Hell... forgot the old firm standby - "Hate Communists!" ... sure gotta load of hating going on there!

theking · 10-07-2002, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
Pleasurepays:

No offence pp... but I can't be bothered answering stuff that is well documented already....

No offence Webby but how about documenting this statement of yours. "in particular the current Admin .. they have broken so many promises and treaties ... signed many and then just filed them, never to be implimented." Educate me please and make a list.

Webby · 10-07-2002, 11:13 PM

You hate that as well??? Shit, I don't hate any of em. Ever if the ignorance comes from the Whitehouse - He's just human...

Pleasurepays · 10-07-2002, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
You hate that as well??? Shit, I don't hate any of em. Ever if the ignorance comes from the Whitehouse - He's just human...

"just human"?

if that is the gauge we are using to measure ignorance - that puts you pretty low on the food chain.

bhutocracy · 10-07-2002, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

However, to say america is a great country seems a bit unjust. It's the richest country in the world, yet 13% of the people in the US are living in poverty. It has 5% of the world's population, yet produces 25% of the world's pollution. It is one of the few countries in the world that can sentence people to death for crimes committed when they were minors. It has a murder rate approx. 5 times as high as that of countries like the Netherlands and Japan. It threatened third world countries with severe economical sanctions if these countries were to ignore American farmaceutical companies' patents on AIDS-medicines because those companies were asking prices for those medicines that made it impossible for the people in those countries to buy them. And the list goes on...
I myself am very critical of my country's actions, however, the same can not be said about many americans.

fucked up foreign policy that many average americans aren't aware of and bad statistics in some areas don't stop it from being a great country.. Australia was complicit in the indonesian genocide in East Timor - we looked the other way for a share of the oil in the Timor Sea while a third of their country was killed.. how many average australians at the time knew what was going on? none.. Aboriginals still have 3 times the death rate from preventable diseases as white australians.. the liberal party introduced a regressive tax that hurt poor people and benefitted the rich, we allow mining and despoiling on world heritage sites...
does that stop me from thinking Australia is a great country? hell fucking no. these are things that big business and elected officials do in our name.. not things we have great control over.

England is has done things every bit as horrible in foreign places as America.. selling arms to banned countries and whatnot but no-one mentions them at all.. if anything they're seen as a moderate influence!

Webby · 10-07-2002, 11:27 PM

theking:

*No offence Webby but how about documenting this statement of yours. "in particular the current Admin .. they have broken so many promises and treaties ... signed many and then just filed them, never to be implimented." Educate me please and make a list.*

First... a generalisation... I can't actually think of one single Treaty lately that the US has initially agreed to, that was not actually signed in the end. Can you?

For some history... when are ya gonna actually implement the human rights Treaty you signed many years back?

Current... You did agree to the International Criminal Court, but on second thoughts, assumed this was beneath the US and then subsequently made up a range of excuses as to "why not". Then settled for one about "protection of forces". Then, although the Admin had not signed, they then started messing, once again, in an attempt to destroy this Treaty.

On the Kyoto Treaty.. again this was agreed to, then it was not, (common!) ... The technique there was once again to mess it up. So George thought by not sending representation to the conference, the world would "cave in" cos the US was not on board. This backfired on day one of the conference and all members proceeding to fulfill there promises without the US.

On the UN front... The US has/has never paid the club subs to attend, but when Sept 11 arrived... hell.. we could not pay em subs quick enough! Cos we *needed* something... all pityful...

There is loads more... would take too long... OK.. another... "womens rights" ... sounds OK?? That also was agreed... but come the day of signing.. apparently the US does not have rights for women, and this also was shelved.

Oh hell... enough!

Webby · 10-07-2002, 11:29 PM

bhutocracy:

I agree! ... Many countries have contributed to total shit on the planet (not just the US!!) ... East Timor is a prime example!!

theking · 10-07-2002, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
theking:

*No offence Webby but how about documenting this statement of yours. "in particular the current Admin .. they have broken so many promises and treaties ... signed many and then just filed them, never to be implimented." Educate me please and make a list.*

First... a generalisation... I can't actually think of one single Treaty lately that the US has initially agreed to, that was not actually signed in the end. Can you?

For some history... when are ya gonna actually implement the human rights Treaty you signed many years back?

Current... You did agree to the International Criminal Court, but on second thoughts, assumed this was beneath the US and then subsequently made up a range of excuses as to "why not". Then settled for one about "protection of forces". Then, although the Admin had not signed, they then started messing, once again, in an attempt to destroy this Treaty.

On the Kyoto Treaty.. again this was agreed to, then it was not, (common!) ... The technique there was once again to mess it up. So George thought by not sending representation to the conference, the world would "cave in" cos the US was not on board. This backfired on day one of the conference and all members proceeding to fulfill there promises without the US.

On the UN front... The US has/has never paid the club subs to attend, but when Sept 11 arrived... hell.. we could not pay em subs quick enough! Cos we *needed* something... all pityful...

There is loads more... would take too long... OK.. another... "womens rights" ... sounds OK?? That also was agreed... but come the day of signing.. apparently the US does not have rights for women, and this also was shelved.

Oh hell... enough!

Webby I have been reading all of your posts and now I have reached a conclusion. Much of the information that you so liberally apply to your posts is misinformation, misleading, incorrect, and BS. Please don't ask me to take the time to point all of the above out to you, because I do not have the inclination to do that. Don't let me discourage you from posting further, as I do find some of your posts to be amusing.

Webby · 10-07-2002, 11:39 PM

Story on East Timor!

Two in fact!

One from from the UK... the govt there were supplying arms (ain't they all?) to that region.. in particular, "training aircraft" fitting with gun mounts blah...
Two women in the UK visited East Timor and saw these planes in action spraying bullet fire on the population.
They arrived back in the UK and decided to "take out" the next shipment of planes destined for that region.

They climbed over the fences and avoided guards blah.. and smashed up the control systems of about 4 of these aircraft.

They were changed and sat in court waiting to be chucked in prison... The jury were made to sit and watch the film footage they shot whilst in East Timor. The court was silent... this footage outraged the jury and a verdict of not guilty was returned.

I can't somehow see that being on the cards in the US sadly.

Second Story:

There was a young man from East Timor who fought many years against this oppression.... Think when he was 28, he was sent to the US for help... He had an appointment with a senior member of the US govt. He registered at the Holiday Inn as agreed and called his contact to confirm he was in US and ready to meet.

He waited two weeks for an appearance from the US representative... he never turned up.

Many years later... that man has been awarded the Noble Peace prize for his contributions and efforts... that is, despite the help from any power.

OK.. nuff of that!

Webby · 10-07-2002, 11:40 PM

theking:

You ever read the US press?? WSJ, NYTimes?? It's all there!! Have a look.. that is the easy bit!!

Pleasurepays · 10-07-2002, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby

There was a young man from East Timor who fought many years against this oppression.... Think when he was 28, he was sent to the US for help... He had an appointment with a senior member of the US govt. He registered at the Holiday Inn as agreed and called his contact to confirm he was in US and ready to meet.

He waited two weeks for an appearance from the US representative... he never turned up.

Many years later... that man has been awarded the Noble Peace prize for his contributions and efforts... that is, despite the help from any power.

OK.. nuff of that!

you sound like that girl on American Pie

"..... and this one time, at band camp...."

ChrisH · 10-07-2002, 11:44 PM

When the World stops asking the US Tax Payer for "BILLIONS" of dallars a year we'll mind our own business.

For now, were going to turn Iraq into a huge fuel depot for the USA!

Webby · 10-07-2002, 11:45 PM

Pleasurepays:

Think the point may be... there are many more people on this planet that have contributed much to it... sadly more than you or I have... so shut the fuck up... nicely!

PornoDoggy · 10-07-2002, 11:47 PM

Webby ... bad things have happened in the name of security all over the world. I'm still trying to figure out how you conclude that "because Country X gave weapons to Dictator Y", he is less of a threat. That's a whole seperate issue.

The U.S. stand on Kyoto has no relevance to the danger presented by Saddam. The U.S. attitude toward the International War Crimes treaty is completely irrelevant to the issue of chemical and biological weapons in the hands of the Iraqi government. You are making no more sense than the morons who believe all Europeans are socialists, or all liberals are moral degenerates.

10-07-2002, 10:38 PM	#220
theking Nice Kitty Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The good old USA!!! Posts: 21,053	"Ya just gotta stick with it and "talk extensively" before committing to action." The quote above is from you Webby. We have talked for 11 years with the Iraqi government, and the UN, in an effort to get Iraq to abide by the agreements made after their military forces were defeated on the field of battle. How much longer do you suggest we talk before we act? I might point out that during that period of time he has attempted to assassinate an American President, has fired hundreds of times on coalition aircraft in the no fly zones, has repeatedly called for Americans to be killed where ever they are found, has funded suicide bombers in Israel etc. __________________ When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me! FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html Last edited by theking; 10-07-2002 at 10:45 PM..

10-07-2002, 09:29 PM	#203
drew Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: us Posts: 336	More crying bitches from Europe. hehehe Dont be mad that your country doesnt mean shit.

10-07-2002, 09:31 PM	#204
Phil21 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ICQ: 25285313 Posts: 993	This thread just underscores my desire that the US just go back to being isolationist. Sure, the economy will suffer short-term (and long term of course). But once we get off oil, and have our foriegn relations consist of non-goverment controlled trading then I think we'd be better off. Then if some country allows a company to "exploit" cheap local labor, they have no one to blame but themselves. (hell, I allready believe that). Then we can just let the rest of the world lay waste to itself eventually, since every crackpot would know that the we'd stand by and watch (Save perhaps the UK and England.. they are cool in my book). Let the liberal pansies in the EU get rolled over by tanks again, and see if anyone else steps up to the plate. At least we wouldn't hear these idiots complaining about foriegn policy then. We would of course have to endure them whining about us NOT doing anything, but I'd feel a whole hell of a lot better being bitched for NOT paying for some fucktard, than being told I'm an evil baby killer and having the pay for the privilege. Fuck the rest of the world, let them live how they want I say. We can run our lives, you run yours. Just don't come whining to us when you fuck it up like you have before (yes, the US was begged to get into WWII far before pearl harbour). Yes, I know this will never happen. But I really do wish "globalization" ceased to exist and this would be feasible. Bah. Stupid world. I just want to live in my own country the way I want w/o liberal pukes telling me how I should live. I say lets turn back to clock and go back to the pioneering days. ;) No one gave two shits about us then. -Phil

10-07-2002, 09:42 PM	#205
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Globalisation - albeit totally insignificant in this case, but the reason we see credit card problems with VISA recently. The ambitions of VISA, now that they have "expired" the economics of loans on cards, now wish to dominate a "cashless society" globally - using your VISA card of course!!

10-07-2002, 09:47 PM	#206
drew Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: us Posts: 336	When US says JUMP, you'd beter JUMP LOL Military Power still matters. When someone talks about strong nations they dont talk about "moral values". They are only four nations today with powerful military: US UK Israel Russia The rest is just JOKE.

10-07-2002, 09:50 PM	#208
PornoDoggy Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,053	Yeah, Phil ... isolationism worked so well the last time. Maybe you should head up to Montana or Idaho ... you can be a pioneer up there.

10-07-2002, 09:51 PM	#209
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	"Strong" nations don't need moral values... the word ain't in the dictionary...they choose to "avoid" them until they "need" em...

10-07-2002, 09:52 PM	#210
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	PornoDoggy: Love it! Nice country!!

10-07-2002, 09:58 PM	#211
drew Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: us Posts: 336	China doesnt belong there. Nuclear weapons dont mean strong military. I even think that Russia is falling from that group lately. Fuck give Europe back to Russia, they will take care of those cheese eating smelly assholes

10-07-2002, 10:02 PM	#212
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Sheesh... so far we got "America Haters" and "Europe Haters"... next?? Wanna draw up that list of the rest of the world and we can all "label" each other and abuse the fuck outta each other? This is more to life than that shit.. believe me!!

10-07-2002, 10:06 PM	#216
drew Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: us Posts: 336	We should take our troops back home from Europe and next time they start killing each other over there, just let them.

10-07-2002, 10:11 PM	#218
drew Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: us Posts: 336	Israel has one of the best trained military force in the world.

10-07-2002, 10:25 PM	#219
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	PornoDoggy: Mmm.. Ya covered a lot of ground there! ... And I can't begin to suggest a solution to the world's security. Some things I can only surmise on are that I do not believe Saddam is "x weeks away from nuclear" whatevers. This is a point of controversy with the Admin and people who actually have inspected Iraq. Yea.. there is one big fucking problem it he ventures to provide some terrorist organization with facilities to manufacture either nuclear or biological weapons... However... not by one long shot, is Saddam the only possible supplier to any such organization.. what were "friends" of the US in the past (some are now!).. have this capability. Many weapons have been supplied to countries in the past and this has subsequently backfired. Suppose the top of the list is US followed by UK - both sustained good ecomonic rates due to arms trading. At one time over 25% of the UK's exports comprised arms trading. As for bin Laden blah... he and is countrymen fought on behalf of the "west" and were supplied with arms to do this. Then, when the battle time passed and he became expendable, there were many broken promises by western powers. So hell... I dunno! :-) There is no way any sane person can condon violence, either on Sept 11 incident or by bombing others. There is also no way any sane person can consider invading a country and putting their own citizens lives at stake and the many others who will suffer in the process without having a very just cause. At the end of the day, people have to talk and try and understand the opinions of others. Forget the stupid people who break promises and try to be smart.. they don't count. Ya just gotta stick with it and "talk extensively" before committing to action. Don't know... but get this nasty feeling if the US embarks on any "invasion", this will cause unending problems for both the US and many other countries (too complicated to discuss here!!) ... and will .. well.. just be so damning to the US and I for one, certainly have no wish to see this come to pass. This is not one bit "easy" for a President... but I somehow think he may be badly "offline" here.

10-07-2002, 10:45 PM	#221
SextrafficPete Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 660	"Israel has one of the best trained military force in the world." so why hasn't the musad assasinated saddam? they are the best of the best

10-07-2002, 10:50 PM	#223
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	mm.. Ya covered a lot of ground there! ... And I can't begin to suggest a solution to the world's security. thats clear - so far you suggest "peace at any cost" ------------------------------------------ Some things I can only surmise on are that I do not believe Saddam is "x weeks away from nuclear" whatevers. nobody said he was weeks away from anything... particularly concerning Nuclear weapons ------------------------------------ Yea.. there is one big fucking problem it he ventures to provide some terrorist organization with facilities to manufacture either nuclear or biological weapons... -- no shit - he needs to be stopped ----------------------------------- However... not by one long shot, is Saddam the only possible supplier to any such organization.. --- how many is too many to do anything about? if there is more than one... does this mean doing nothing because you can argue all day long that the other is just as dangerous? ------------------------------- what were "friends" of the US in the past (some are now!).. have this capability. Many weapons have been supplied to countries in the past and this has subsequently backfired. -- the world is an imperfect place. the issue is security today... not security 50-40 or 30 years ago -------------------------------- As for bin Laden blah... he and is countrymen fought on behalf of the "west" and were supplied with arms to do this. -- they fought on behalf of themselves because they were being invaded. ------------------------------------ Then, when the battle time passed and he became expendable, there were many broken promises by western powers. So hell... I dunno! :-) --what promises were broken in Afghanistan? -------------------------------------- There is no way any sane person can condon violence, either on Sept 11 incident or by bombing others. -- no one suppports violence. the issue is not violence. the issue is survival. Maybe you should send the fruit basket to Osama Bin Laden... i would prefer that he is killed. -------------------------------------- There is also no way any sane person can consider invading a country and putting their own citizens lives at stake and the many others who will suffer in the process without having a very just cause. -- what invasion? do you know something the Pentagon has not told us? --------------------------------------- At the end of the day, people have to talk and try and understand the opinions of others. -- you call Osma Bin Laden and try to "work it out". lets record it and post it on the web. Explain to him that he religion does not actually demand that he kills all infidels... continue to explain that it is not his duty to kill infidels. keep explaining that they wont really secure a place in paradise for themselves and their families for fighting their self declared "Holy War" and tell them that the whole 72 virgins thing is a bunch of BS -------------------------------

10-07-2002, 10:50 PM	#224
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	The quote above is from you Webby. We have talked for 11 years with the Iraqi government, and the UN, in an effort to get Iraq to abide by the agreements made after their military forces were defeated on the field of battle. How much longer do you suggest we talk before we act? As long as there is no "imminent danger" you talk as long as it takes. It has still not been established that there is, in fact, any danger from Iraq. All that has been said so far, is "words", - even the US Admin had to 'cool' some of the propaganda they issued... eg.. "terrorist cells working in Iraq" when the story was just not credible. (but hell.. there may well be!!g) .... If you are talking of broken promises... just take a look at the US Admin... in particular the current Admin .. they have broken so many promises and treaties ... signed many and then just filed them, never to be implimented. So, Saddam ain't the only one to have broken his word! We gonna "invade" the US now cos they broke their word? Na.. too silly! Back to the start... ya gotta "keep at it" with anyone like Saddam.. or the US.. or any nation that agrees to something and does not produce the goods until they do comply with promises/undertakings. Yea.. can bore the scull of ya in the meantime g But sure beats murdering thousands over some "agreement"! It's called "persistance".. and.. (hell, this is a first! g) .. gotta say George has put the pressure on there, and he might just pull it off....

10-07-2002, 10:53 PM	#226
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Pleasurepays: Oh fuck.. I ain't gonna bother with that one! If it ain't there to start with.. I ain't no educator .. sorry!

10-07-2002, 10:57 PM	#228
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	I don't buy your arguements for one minute. Saddam has chemical and biological weapons. We know this, because the Reagan and first Bush administrations sold them to him, or allowed him to acquire them with a wink and a nod. Where and how he got them is a question that will be very valuable in a future discussion of how my country conducts its foreign policy in the future, but has no relevance now. You are not saying the US has a "foreign policy"??? Cummon! So what ya expect from anyone you supply weapons to??? You moaning now they may be used against you??? I thinks we have a totally fucked govt and a totally fucked (if any) foreign policy....

10-07-2002, 10:59 PM	#229
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Pleasurepays: No offence pp... but I can't be bothered answering stuff that is well documented already....

10-07-2002, 11:03 PM	#231
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	[Labret] Gotta agree on that one!... This was an example ... still is.. of "US aid" ... Israel has been pumped with something over 7 billion in "aid" a year. The real facts are.... before that is handed over, a reciprocal deal is done to spend that $7 billion on arms from the US... cent for cent.

10-07-2002, 11:04 PM	#232
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	PleasurePays: Bless you too!

10-07-2002, 11:07 PM	#234
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Whatever ya say

10-07-2002, 11:09 PM	#235
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Oh forgot... we got "Hate America", "Hate Europe" and now we got "Hate Liberals" to add to the list... sheesh!!

10-07-2002, 11:11 PM	#237
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Hell... forgot the old firm standby - "Hate Communists!" ... sure gotta load of hating going on there!

10-07-2002, 11:13 PM	#239
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	You hate that as well??? Shit, I don't hate any of em. Ever if the ignorance comes from the Whitehouse - He's just human...

10-07-2002, 11:27 PM	#242
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	theking: No offence Webby but how about documenting this statement of yours. "in particular the current Admin .. they have broken so many promises and treaties ... signed many and then just filed them, never to be implimented." Educate me please and make a list. First... a generalisation... I can't actually think of one single Treaty lately that the US has initially agreed to, that was not actually signed in the end. Can you? For some history... when are ya gonna actually implement the human rights Treaty you signed many years back? Current... You did agree to the International Criminal Court, but on second thoughts, assumed this was beneath the US and then subsequently made up a range of excuses as to "why not". Then settled for one about "protection of forces". Then, although the Admin had not signed, they then started messing, once again, in an attempt to destroy this Treaty. On the Kyoto Treaty.. again this was agreed to, then it was not, (common!) ... The technique there was once again to mess it up. So George thought by not sending representation to the conference, the world would "cave in" cos the US was not on board. This backfired on day one of the conference and all members proceeding to fulfill there promises without the US. On the UN front... The US has/has never paid the club subs to attend, but when Sept 11 arrived... hell.. we could not pay em subs quick enough! Cos we needed something... all pityful... There is loads more... would take too long... OK.. another... "womens rights" ... sounds OK?? That also was agreed... but come the day of signing.. apparently the US does not have rights for women, and this also was shelved. Oh hell... enough!

10-07-2002, 11:29 PM	#243
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	bhutocracy: I agree! ... Many countries have contributed to total shit on the planet (not just the US!!) ... East Timor is a prime example!!

10-07-2002, 11:39 PM	#245
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Story on East Timor! Two in fact! One from from the UK... the govt there were supplying arms (ain't they all?) to that region.. in particular, "training aircraft" fitting with gun mounts blah... Two women in the UK visited East Timor and saw these planes in action spraying bullet fire on the population. They arrived back in the UK and decided to "take out" the next shipment of planes destined for that region. They climbed over the fences and avoided guards blah.. and smashed up the control systems of about 4 of these aircraft. They were changed and sat in court waiting to be chucked in prison... The jury were made to sit and watch the film footage they shot whilst in East Timor. The court was silent... this footage outraged the jury and a verdict of not guilty was returned. I can't somehow see that being on the cards in the US sadly. Second Story: There was a young man from East Timor who fought many years against this oppression.... Think when he was 28, he was sent to the US for help... He had an appointment with a senior member of the US govt. He registered at the Holiday Inn as agreed and called his contact to confirm he was in US and ready to meet. He waited two weeks for an appearance from the US representative... he never turned up. Many years later... that man has been awarded the Noble Peace prize for his contributions and efforts... that is, despite the help from any power. OK.. nuff of that!

10-07-2002, 11:40 PM	#246
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	theking: You ever read the US press?? WSJ, NYTimes?? It's all there!! Have a look.. that is the easy bit!!

10-07-2002, 11:44 PM	#248
ChrisH Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: New York Posts: 1,355	When the World stops asking the US Tax Payer for "BILLIONS" of dallars a year we'll mind our own business. For now, were going to turn Iraq into a huge fuel depot for the USA!

10-07-2002, 11:45 PM	#249
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Pleasurepays: Think the point may be... there are many more people on this planet that have contributed much to it... sadly more than you or I have... so shut the fuck up... nicely!