they cannot do this, if they will land on visa high chargeback program changing merchant accounts will not help

let's drop the 'friendly surfer fraud' crap - that is only a problem when you are doing the type of sales scheme that originated this thread. ask anybody who runs a decent paysite without cross-sales and the % of 'friendly surfer fraud' is miniscule to non-existent.

this thread is ridiculous

selling online memberships does not equate to crack dealing

i understand the desire to offer a quality product
but if you offer a quality product it shouldnt mean you choose to make less money.

make the money, customers can always cancel

I've jumped in rather late in this thread, however JStyles brought up a great point which I think a lot of people missed.

A lot of surfers do uncheck the cross sells, they do read join pages, they are seasoned members who have joined sites before, and know what a little tick in the box means. We don't have an amazing amount of new customers flooding into the market these days, most of them have seen the various billing pages presented by various companies, and know what the are getting into when they join.

yeah thats a great point :upsidedow so a lot of people know what the box means. but... so what? some don't. So whats the point, because "most" know about it, you can precheck them for 2,3,4,5 etc.. cross sales?

there is not value to the surfer. there is no "point" in doing this other than making more for the sponsor doing it. I can't believe people try to sugar coat it and try to make it sound like they doing it for the surfers benefit. It goes along the same lines of rebilling, its not for the surfers benefit, it is because most people forget to cancel.

I use rebilling and I would I would use 1 prechecked cross sale. I am not saying its scamming someone or that it doesnt make us money, i just think it is funny to see people justify it as a " benefit and value to the surfer". I do think 2+ cross sales is excessive and greedy but that is just my personal opinion. Some people think 1 cross sale is greedy, some might think it is 10.

To me if it was based on bringing value to the surfer it would be done like amazon does. You place your order before the final screen , based on my choices it offers me other things I may enjoy none of it is prechecked. A few times I have bought extra things.

This thread should be filtered to those who have more then 1 year in the biz and can do more then 100 joins a day.... it would be less then a page.....

No doubt.. I can count about 8 people in this thread that would qualify

hey now, I never claimed to know anything about the way processing and banks work

but thanks for explaining why it can't be done

what is worse, me making a wrong post or you throwing names around and not initiating intelligent conversation?

I would love to know why what I said is wrong....I will be the first to tell you I have NO clue how it all works...I know I have paysites, I know I sign up for epoch and ccbill and put up my join pages, that is the extent of my knowledge

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Brad is here now, point it out to him. Go find a dead horse and beat it.

and it was casinos not PPS. again, brad is here...not sure why you brought it up to me.

No it isn't ridiculous. It's a moral question.

The purpose of the PRE-CHECKED cross sales is to hope that customers don't notice them so you can fleece every last dime out of them before they cancel.
Saying that they're giving additional value to the surfer is as preposterous as the people who say we should have torrent sites in case they need to download a backup copy of a DVD they scratched.

Offer all the cross sales you want, just don't pre check them. That's when I (and any other reasonable person) will believe that you're offering added value and not trying to trick someone.
The REASON they're pre-checked is that YOU KNOW more people don't read the fine print than people who do. If you truly believed that people wanted the additional offers and were reading the page thoroughly, there would be absolutely no reason to pre-check the cross sales. :2 cents:

Why? Cause someone doing "only" 50 a day doesn't have a clue?

Btw I LOL'ed hard at the added value comment *rolleyes*

sig spot...

bump for a great read

Darn I was hopin this idiot would chime in some more.:(

I miss Sless...
Vivid has lost its fuckin mind with this mental case.

i still think all blame lies on the jews, look what they did to christ.

and now its on to billing.

this industry needs a mel gibson

hummmmm.....

WTF - are you serious?

Mitch

Your post cracks me up. You speak as if Steven Hirsch has a clue who you are. You tried to tell Shap how to run his business and you think you know how Vivid should be run. Here's some advice, stop sucking the big boys' dicks. You don't have any experience in what you're talking and you're running around kissing ass. You've never had a merchant account, you've never managed a merchant account and you think that free trials keep chargebacks under 1% better than paid trials..you crack me up. You have no idea how big companies work in this industry, you've only worked at them.

looks like a pretty standard double precheck to me

Exactly. Trick a man once shame on you, trick him twice shame on him. Surfers learn, some learn to watch out for this and others tar us all with the same brush.

Why does it happen? Because some affiliates are seduced by $50 PPS.
What effect does it have? Look at your ratios.

The problem is people send traffic to people who work like this. Cut the problem off at it's source and watch the money grow.

Alienq did work for Vivid for six days before he was fired for incompetency, so he does have some experience working for the big boys.

Actually I worked for Intertain Inc for 3 years
XPICS for 3 years
Sin City for 1.5 years
NetPond For 1 year or so.
Cybererotica 1.5 years maybe 2.

Those are just ones that can be traced in the public.
However there are many other private companies through out my time with some longer than 5 years and many relationships in business. Some building from scratch, bringing up affiliates programs with CCBILL, EPOCH, NETBILLING and son on an so forth.

But really my credential's and worth I like to keep fairly private it's pretty much no ones business.

PS: I had many reasons leaving Vivid and if I told you why...
Well there is no reason to, I want to just keep you in the dark it's alot more fun that way.

I agree 100%...programs have to do some unethical shit to squeze enough blood from a stone to cover that 40$ PPS that the webmasters demand.

In the end, it's the porn consumer that tired or being ripped off and takes their business to the torrent sites and I don't blame them.

here's a fact for everyone to chew on: 75% - 80% of people uncheck pre-checked xsells.

That's A LOT higher than 'chance'. So you are telling me that 100% of the remaining 20-25% are 'scammed'? I don't think so folks.

no need to beat you up any more on a message board...all i will say is 10 years in an industry and nothing to show...thanks for proving my point.

bump for a good read

This was in interesting thread... I really don't have a problem with the pre-checked cross sales as long as they're not hidden with small text etc. like the old days.. The wegcash ones look pretty good IMO... And I suspect they've got it all figured out to turn them on and off depending on how close to the edge they run. That's what the biz model for those types of sites is, has been and always will be.

What's humurous about this thread is that ALL tgp owners that accept submissions (including you Shap), have been culpable in the entire charge back issue... We ALL accept galleries that we know have content on them that we know the site being promoted doesn't actually contain.. We all know that leads to a certain amount of chargebacks. It's gotten better over more recent years but we're all still to blame. So while it makes for good drama to call into question someone elses biz, in this case I really think it's entirely out of place.

Thank god I don't promote WEGcash.