going back to bed, will read when this thread hits page 10 again

Back in the day we even had a lot of live voyuer houses which we dont have today.
not much has changed like you said dick in pussy/ass/mouth the only differance might have been bigger hair :1orglaugh

I think the average membership trial is even about the same 2-3 months
then they try something new. unless you have a niche that no one else has might be longer then.

you might have a girl and guy I dont and visa versa so I doubt anyone has that magic potion LOL

Now about my business advice earlier on page 1...
Ya do not seem to know more than guys that have surrounded themselves with MBA's and great attornies, and excellent technologies in high risk processing, that have the money to put where it makes sense.

So basically you were talking out of your ass.
Again...
Mind your own is my advice Shap.

If you do not "Get it" maybe you should STFU before ya look even more retarded. There is a moethod and at the end of the game FREE TRIAL sites are no more of a scam than charging someone up front for a shitty site or even a decent site.

Your business model captures funds before a "Client" accesses the site. In my opinion YOU are more likely to suffer charge backs than Free Trial guys. Actually I know you would have more charge backs than the free trial guys.
For a fact.

Free Trial guys just offer more than you do and take the risk of giving free access to new members. Offering more sites is a Value add and people surfers do see the additional prechecks and yes they check some and uncheck others, they are not as stupid as you think.
Thats another fact.

I won't give ya anymore free advice other than get some education about the matter, because the guys you seem to be barking at got the education and the people around them that have an education as well to keep there business moving forward in the positive.

Whatever drugs you've been doing for the past 5 years they've definitely done their damage :disgust

AlienQ giving advice to people in this industry is like the local homeless guy giving stock tips to brokers.

LOL, well at least I am not the one to come calling a decent company a scam without understanding the business model.:1orglaugh

Now ya saying I do drugs. Nice.
I do not do drugs never have, ya think it takes drugs to call you an idiot?
Well it doesnt.:1orglaugh

Get over yourself.

C'mon people!?!?!?!

Do you really think most surfers don't uncheck the crosses if they don't want them?

Do you really think a large portion of the ones that don't uncheck them DON'T cancel all 3 memberships 2 minutes after joining?

Seriously, you can't be that naive!

It's a fucking numbers game!

For all the "surfers" that know the game and join and cancel in 2 minutes ... and WEBMASTERS STILL GET PAID $30 - $50 per sale!

For all the "friendly fraud" from surfers and surfers wives that say "I didn't/my husband would never join an adult site" ... and get refunds or charge back which WEBMASTERS STILL GET PAID $30 - $50 per sale!

... there has to be a balance that maintains profitability.

That balance may include a cross sell or two.

Some of you sit there behind your keyboard with all these accusations about how these companies take advantage of surfers YET you disregard the parasitic actions of freeloading join/cancel/friendly fraud surfers AND WEBMASTERS that want huge PPS $$$ before the program makes a profit.

If that's the way you feel then put your $$$ where your mouth is and ONLY promote 50/50 reveshare ... that's fair, right?

If 60+% of surfers take a $1.95 trial and cancel - you're cool with less than $1 per sale on 60+% of your traffic, right?

... or less than $12.50 on a $25 no trial join, right?

You can still profitably buy google traffic and submit passes on that money, couldn't you?

:thumbsup

See, but you won't do that! You won't because you don't want to be paid from every program like an annuity. You like your $$$ one or 2 weeks after the sale BEFORE the program can even make a profit. You won't because you'd go broke and have to find a real job because slingin' porn would NOT pay your bills!

Sure, there are some programs like Shaps, FTV, ATK and others where it might be worthwhile ... but the vast majority are not ... and you know it ... and YOU won't take that risk!

Yet, these companies are bad guys?

Moral of this diatribe?

Lots of hypocritical mu'fuckas in this business on both sides of the fence.

:2 cents:

So your saying the only way to make a dollar in porn is to screw people?

:error :error :error

Your reading comprehension sucks, Tony.

Re-read and tell me where i said that.

I wasnt quoting your words but in a roundabout way that's what I feel your saying.
I really wouldnt care what anyone does and the dim people say its their business not yours but no one operates in a bubble actions effect others. When credit processing started online the cb ratio was what 5% now its 1%, paypal and amex pulled out. Those things didnt just happen to those playing the high risk game it happened to all of us. Surfers get burnt they stop buying porn, there are a ton of places where they can get it for free. It hurts all of us not just the business with questionable practices.Do I think checked cross sales are a scam no, its just not cool.

I guess people need to make up for all the lost sales they are losing to torrent sites.

But $120 a pop for a person who didn't notice the boxes, thats a lot. I could see maybe 1 membership for $30 bucks... thats just greed pure and simple.

You have a surfer who wanted to sign up for your advertised " free trial" and you think he really wants 3 paid memberships at $120 total cost. That is extreme...


It's funny but sad, on one hand you have surfers getting everything for free from torrent sites and on the other you have surfers taking it up the ass because they are too stupid to figure out how to get it for free. We sure know how to reward the people who are still willing to pay..... sad. I can *almost* not blame someone for trying to find it for free when they have to worry about missing a prechecked box and getting whacked for $120 a month.

Had that happen to me for NFL all access for direct tv. Paid the $200 bucks or whatever and next year didnt want it but some dip shit who makes $6 an hour who signed me up the year before failed to tell me it would auto renew. You are not talking about a monthly service, it was another 8 months later before football started up again, thanks but I can resign up 8 months later if i still want it. No need to do it for me, fuckers.

That's not what I was saying at all.

Seriously, re-read my post and DON'T read between the lines. I meant exactly what I said. Read carefully ... all of it ... read about friendly fraud - read about webmasters wanting HUGE PPS $$$ and not wanting to wait to get paid a little bit per month spread out like an annuity ... clearly understand the way most webmasters prefer to get paid and how that affects the way some companies choose their path to profitability.

BTW, does that mean you think CB ratios should be STILL be 5%? Honestly? 5 out every 100 people SHOULD be able to charge back and that's an acceptable number of dissatisfied customers to you?

You can blame those playing the high risk game for the state of the business today or blame them and everyone else in the food chain - because the simple fact is that things are the way they are for many reasons.

Here's a short list. You can

* Blame CC-Bill and Paycom for allowing mom and pops to enter the business for $750 and crappy paysite designs with shitty content.

* Blame surfers wives for calling in to reverse charges when WE KNOW their husbands whacked it to a porn site twice last month while some webmaster just made $30 - $50 and the program is upside down on those sales.

Blame the guys that sign up and cancel 2 minutes after signing up while some webmaster just made $30 - $50 and the program is upside down on those sales.

* Blame Webmasters for wanting MORE than a one months membership to refer a sale.

* Blame NATS for allowing 100's of programs to open doors for pennies per month featuring sites with 20 video clips and 100 image sets.

* Blame TGP's.

* Blame Tube sites

* Blame P2p Networks

Or just work harder and smarter yourself and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and trying to place blame.

You seem like a good guy, Tony - but you have a propensity to take things out of context a lot when you post. None of this is personal :winkwink:

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I respectfully disagree with you.

It's amusing that many of ya people think Subscribers to websites are dumb unintelligent Larvea with credit cards.

I think many of you need to update your thoughts on the intelligence of todays average adult site subscriber.

They are not dumb people, they are smart enough to know where free content is, dumb enough to know how to share content, dumb enough to propogate to the best Free porn has to offer, all the way to the best TGP's and Video sites.

Surfers and subscribers are not dumb, many are just as smart as you or me.
Sure there are a couple dumb ones once in a while that stand out, kinda just like they do on GFY as webmasters.

SO the argument that surfers do not see the cross sales and pre check's or even the option to check is flat. You would know this if you ran a FREE TRIAL program or had inside knowledge of it's workings.

I agree that there are a lot of things that have caused some of the problems in todays adult industry. I think what some here are trying to say is that the high risk stuff is the primary reason we are where we are at. While you can tell Tony that he shouldn't focus on other people, it is those other people that are hurting his business by their high risk stuff.

But I understand the catch-22 the industry is in. There are tons of programs and to succeed they are fighting over affiliates. To offer the highest PPS rates, you have to play the high risk game.

I'm sure many do see the prechecked cross sales. But lets be honest, they are prechecked to grab those people that don't notice it.

Well I got fucked hard by vista print once by a pre checked cross sell and Im pretty computer friendly. I worked for a mainstream dot com , insurance quotes you have no clue the fucking stupid questions I would get from surfers on a daily basis.

Really?

I think my argument is flawless for the most part unless I'm missing something

What do you disagree with the most?

You don't think all the things I mention play into why things are the way they are today?

Please tell. I want to hear your opinion.

Simply not true.
It's not the only reason, and not even the main reason.
Sure A FEW might not notice, but thats not the main and only reason they are pre checked. And it's not just for webmaster's either.

Just like Rich C said it is a value ad to what they might be looking for.

If you think your argument is flawless,then my thoughts dont matter. lol I do think you perfectly understand what im saying, your a very smart guy. :)

Do tell what the main reason is for it then. Would love to hear this.

See, like I said before - take me at my word ... don't try to read between the lines :winkwink:

I said "flawless for the most part unless I'm missing something"

Your thoughts matter, Tony! :)

I very well MIGHT be missing something.

I already told ya above. It is a Value ad, if someone is going to subscribe to a site and check it out free why not 3 others? Maybe 1 they will like, maybe none.

It is alot more generous than taking the funds immediatly on the subscribe, at least Free Trial sites offer access to see the site before becomming a member.

There are many past and present that have abused the whole cross sale situation, I have seen them all, however WEG CASH is not one of those sort of companies whats so ever.

Frankly if you ask me I think it is pretty scummy for people to transact a full month subscription without offering a free trial!!!

How many shit heads out there have a shit member section after the money has been collected? A WHOLE LOT of shitty sites out there do that. That in my opinion is far more abusive.

Twisty's captures funds before access! His members section is good, but I can see some subscribers going WTF! Because his site does not offer as much as SOME of the FREE Trial sites.

Don't get me wrong, Twistys is a great site but all this is a matter of perspective to value and what a subscriber is willing to put on the table for access.

Try Twistys for 24.95 up front or some pornstar mega site at a FREE Trial Program? People will go for the Free Trial alot of the time. Not every time but FREE VS. PAY and the logic renders itself.

what I think Visa/Mastercard needs to do is initiate some sort of "solid charge" process, which means the surfer has to go through more hoops to use his card on certain sites (i.e. extra verification methods, etc.) and then if they chose to charge back, they can't...and then visa needs to tell us "hey, porn surfers can ONLY use the "solid charge" cards/method on your paysites"

it doesn't have to be exactly as I said, but something so that porn card charges can't be charged back, or they can be, but it is VERY hard

as it stands now, anyone with a Visa card can charge anything back at any time with NO hassle...and that is HORRIBLE

I guess if they have many chargebacks from a webmaster traffic, they kick out of the program the respective webmaster, when the fault is theirs ...

your comments are pretty dumb, so you think "a couple" surfers are dumb. The vast majority of the population is dumb, and a lot of them are online. 50% of the US population can't even point to Idaho on a map, yet you think all but a couple of these same people will spot a prechecked cross sale and unclick it. :1orglaugh Sure "some" people are smart and "most" are getting wise to this after having had it happen to them a couple times, but if you think only a couple are dumb then you must be in that number.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh It's a "value add to what they are looking for". They were lookign for a free trial not $120 worth of rebilling fees to several different sites.

Where do you come up with this shit ?

Well major processors like CCBill and Paycom would disagree with you as they don't allow their clients to use those methods. But what do they know?

If it was simply about users taking advantage of a good offer, the boxes would be left unchecked. And major processors wouldn't mind their clients using the method on their websites.


Do you feel the same way about movies? How about a CD you buy? What about a video game?

Look at the sites that receive the top ratings on all the review sites. A large percent of them don't offer trials. Typically the sites that have shit members areas are the ones offering trials (there are exceptions though).

If you look at virtually every review site, Twistys is ranked as one of the best sites. Much higher than almost every trial site out there.

If it is so value added and very few miss them and they more often than not uncheck them if they really do not want them. Why not have ten or more free trial value added sites?
Hell if there is a chance they may like one out of three then why not increase the odds and let them see ten or more?

Specially with 1.00 or even 3.00 trials it would be less or at least equal to many pay in advance high risk sites?

the 1 and only reason for 2 or 3 prechecked cross sales = greed


Note to self, don't bother reading AlienQ's posts, its a waste of time.


Following his logic, why stop at 3 cross sales, why not signup the surfer to 10, 20 sites, you giving them a value ad, why stop at 3, really give them some value, give them 50 sites and $2,000 worth of membership fees. Hell why stop at 50, give them 2000 cross sales, they could spend 72 hours straight trying to cancel them all and they still wont have enough time to do it. There you go, thats a plan. Give them so many membership sites to signup to that they wont be enough time in the day for them to cancel them all before the rebilling starts.

1 seems to be the accepted or common practice. I don;t think it is terrible if you offer 1 and give them ample time to cancel it. But anything beyond 1 is just pure greed. Where do you draw the line, why stop at 3, why not 5 ?

Will some companies used to and possibly still do have thirty minute trials if I remember correctly.

Oh shit, you just fucked up posting that here. Some of the morons around here will try it. Just wait. :1orglaugh

im just looking out for the surfer and making sure he gets his value :upsidedow

Well Will76 came into thread guess it's pretty much down hill from here people.

Threads dead.

There is not a single free trial paysite that has even 10% of what twistys has. That i guarantee