you guys got anyone in l.a. that can attend the roundtable?

you guys shoot a TON of content. i would like to see ya there.

if possible. not sure logistically where you are.

Good list.. Naked hosting. The things these ladies (Kacy) and gents have done for us is damn well staggering. Love them. FAR and above the call of duty.

Good to see all of this come out I hope threads like this don't just get buried and some responsibility is finally taken :thumbsup

Here is my free 2 cents worth...

I just read all 5 pages of this. 3 of the pages were nothing more than bashing each other and a total waste. If your gonna bash each other, start your own thread. This thread was started with a damn good idea this industry needs.

I agree with everyone else that their needs to be some way to investigate who goes on the good or bad list. If not, then this is going to become a joke. If you want to put someone on the shit list, you must provide 100% proof to backup your claim.

I think their should be a vote on who goes on each list. Naturally, their would need to be safe guards in place so the ballot box doesn't get stuffed. I also think the 'voting' can only be done by webmasters. We deal with these companies daily. Only we know who is good and bad. If surfers are involved, then their will be abuse to this process.

Anyway, this is a good idea. I hope it happens.

:2 cents::2 cents::2 cents:

strike 3....

Goodbye

1. DouchbagCash
2. SloreCash
3. CASHCASH
4. MoneyCash
5. Cash4Cash
6. BucksCash
7. MoneyBucks
8. BucksMoneyCash
9. MoneyMoneyCash

and of course the highly original:

10. Cashcashbucksmoneycash

Oh snap!



http://www.myspacecomedy.com/images/...ssor_t-ban.jpg





:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I'm drunk. Anyways...

There is really no difference between saying bull crap, and bull shit. what's crap? It's shit. And shit is crap.

When you're saying bullcrap, bullboulders, bulllogs, you mean bullshit.

All I'm trying to say is if you're trying to stop cursing, try to stop thinking that way in general. Not just replace the word with something that means the same thing.

:thumbsup

oh btw gofuckyourself

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

yah its tough. sometimes i just snap and its all downhill.

:thumbsup:thumbsup

thanks

So is there a list ? or like so much of GFY do i have to READ ALL THE BS TO FIND OUT IF THERE IS ANYTHING worth reading in this thread...?



Can i get a summary...is there a BAD list YET....

Ram, here's one bad list. Nothing official yet, though.

There are more look thru the thread.

I wonder how long until we get the MY LAWYER says you can't post like that.


Also thanks for finding a list that seems to be pretty true. Well forsure most of the companies have been mentioned before this type of business.

I see WegCash is on the list....?
First time I read bad stuff on them. I have not used there program in a few years....but there was a time when i use to make some real good cash with them.

(sorry, I can't automatically quote yet, but I think RawAlex is on the right track)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RawAlex said:
Add to this please: the "new" 2257 is very much more restrictive on the whole issue of "innocent hosts". I think that tube sites that manipulate, manage, or redistribute content on webpages they own and control will find themselves on the shit end of the stick. Accepting a file and then re-publishing it makes you a secondary producer, like it or not. So even if you can dance on the head of the DMCA pin, the reality is you still have porn and you don't have the documents - by definition, you have to treat each and every piece of undocumented porn as if it was CP until you have the documents to prove otherwise.

Tube sites will be the napsters of 2008. TOAST.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been following (skulking) all of the torrent-related threads for the past few weeks and I really think you're barking up the wrong tree. Even if we get every one of the "bad companies" to stop advertising on EVERY torrent site, realistically it will do very little to help the cause. Yes, it would be a show of solidarity, and that is a great thing, but the problem will remain unsolved. For every adult industry company that stops advertising on torrents, there will be another Sony, Healthy Choice, H&R Block, eBay, adinfinitum... to take their place.

And to all those brandishing witch hunt torches, how much of your house is made of glass? Karma is a bitch and we reap what we sow. How many of us can honestly say that we have paid for every software program and every font we use? Every muisc file we listen to? Every DVD and feature film we've watched? I know I can't. Funny how it all seems more important when the shoe is on the other foot. And you can bash me for speaking my mind, but that's the plain, ugly truth of the matter.

Now... HOW TO KILL A TORRENT

2257 seems like a good place to start. The biggest snafu is that it is US legislation and many of these torrent sites claim international amnesty. But for those who are based in the US, it seems like they should be held accountable as secondary producers to 2257 compliance. I am a GFY n00b, so I can't post links yet, but here's an excerpt from the US 2257 Code on the Cornell University Law School site:

"It shall be unlawful?
(4) for any person knowingly to sell or otherwise transfer, or offer for sale or transfer, any book, magazine, periodical, film, video, or other matter, produce in whole or in part with materials which have been mailed or shipped in interstate or foreign commerce or which is intended for shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, which?
(A) contains one or more visual depictions made after the effective date of this subsection of actual sexually explicit conduct; and
(B) is produced in whole or in part with materials which have been mailed or shipped in interstate or foreign commerce, or is shipped or transported or is intended for shipment or transportation in interstate or foreign commerce;"

Here's another excerpt from Wikipedia:
"The regulations define the terms "primary producer" and "secondary producer". A primary producer is defined in the set of rules as any person who actually films, videotapes, or photographs a visual depiction of actual sexually explicit conduct. A "secondary producer" is defined as any person who produces, assembles, manufactures, publishes, duplicates, reproduces, or reissues a book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape, or other matter intended for commercial distribution that contains a visual depiction of actual sexually explicit conduct. Different record-keeping requirements exist for primary versus secondary producers. One may be both a primary and a secondary producer."

It would seem to me that owners of torrent sites are definitely "transfering and reissuing sexually explicit video". While they point the finger at their users, THEY are providing the vehicle for transfer; the software and platform that facilitates the reissue of video content. If they are based in the US, we should be reporting them for violation of 2257 compliance. While there may still be some loopholes in the code that they can dance around, if we are vigilant and vocal, we could possibly make a dent. Put the issue in the public spotlight so that middle America can see what a farce these torrent sites are making of the mighty 2257 compliance. Maybe if we can put enough egg on the face of US bureaucracy, they will be forced to rattle their sabers and put the squeeze on some of the US-based torrents. It's our goverment too. Make it work for us... just make sure you have your own 2257 records in order. ;)

And yes, it will be much more complicated than that, but I think it's a worthwhile avenue to pursue. And if we gain any measure of success, we might be able to gain some traction and momentum to go after those torrents hiding acroos the big pond.

:2 cents:

p.s. the amount of bickering and name calling on this board is ridiculous.

A1R3K,
First off, thankyou for making this thread, timely to say the least.
As said earlier, I think its important to define your terms of reference ie "good" and "bad" is too subjective, and allows for companies and individuals to descend into pointing fingers as a means of settling scores rather than constructing a framework under which hard work and good business practices are rewarded.
Though straight-forwards theft maybe relatively easy to identify (and even remedy), there are many companies standing in the shadows that indirectly benefit from say, traffic from torrents. Rather like Kevin Bacon...how many degrees of separation might you consider? An example: A torrent site (with complete rips of all my sites) jam-hot.com was running ads for Xbiz Awards. These awards are sponsored by, amongst other companies, Epoch, who in turn, are the billing company for the ripped sites! When I pointed out to Epoch that they were sponsoring a company that was cannibalizing the industry it purported to support, they replied (in fairness, very pronto) that there was really nothing they could do. This was such a sad reply that even baby Jesus's puppy wept.
In the end I posted in a thread re Xbiz, and I now notice that the ads are gone. I'd like to think that there was a connection between posting about their ads and your stirring up a stink with regard to shady business practices. I cannot thank Xbiz for removing the ads because they shouldn't of been there in the first place. Infact my blood pressure soars at the idea that they made a conscious decision to advertise there. I think its important for sponsors to be more forceful with regard to where ads are placed...as in the real world, these peeps need to be aware that there are consequences for pissing on those who make them their living.
Enough!
And thanks again.

No lawyer can get involved when it comes from an opinion over a statement.

As I said these people are bad business decision makers, meaning in my mind they made a bad decision to become affiliated with such sites. I then show what sites they are affiliated with.

Wegcash is all over a lot of the torrent sites. Have been for ages.

Logistically we're in Montreal. We produce in LA and I fly in once in a while.

Very "SiMpLy" Stated.

I guess no one has the balls but me.

Bad Business List:

1. AFF (including Cams.com, Streamray, and the rest of their network of sites)
2. Fleshlight
3. AVN (AdBright)
4. Fling
5. NastyDollars (same parent company as Fling)
6. BangBros (same parent company as Fling)
7. HugeTraffic (same parent company as Fling)
8. Kink.com (KinkyDollars)
9. HornyMatches.com
10. TotemCash
11. The Free Speech Coalition

I just pulled my fling links/ads. I'm just a small fish though, but I'm always down to support a good cause.

very good post. i for one have learned from it.

Thank you :) and a bump for a good cause :thumbsup

i think some people should still try a little harder to actually understand HOW torrents work. these sites DO NOT host any porn files. all they host is a .torrent file that contains data. im not defending them by any means, simply stating some of the approaches stated in this thread are utterly useless because torrent sites are not actually doing anything illegal. they simply host files that teach your BT client how to find other BT clients that have the files that you want to download.

contrary to popular believe RapidShare.com is very easy to do deal with, i send them in excess of 1000 files per month that are from our producers and they are always removed within a few hours. yes its a pain in the ass to track these RS links down and report them.

A1R3K, EuroRevenue.com would like to be listed, we do not support illegal torrents. As well i can offer to help report stuff to rapid share as stated above i am already doing it on a regular basis and have located a lot of rather large RS link trading sites with many sponsors content on it.

logistepag.com is another good company that helps companies deal with piracy on RS and BT sites. maybe they should be contacted as well.

Torrents do much more than host a .torrent file. They faciliate the transfer, and coordinate the tracking of the data as it's distributed. The data is hosted on several machines but distribution is awarded based on the tracker determining what you can get, the speed you can receive the data, etc... You are rewarded for by the tracker currency. Ultimately, your ability to receive the file at all is completely up to the tracker. I'm sure there are a few RICO statues that could apply. Possibly even to those who help to monetize the distribution. Will the government choose to make an example out of someone? Homeland Security apparently applies and could step in with broad authority. Remember when the business owner in Oregon was forced to remove the Rubiks cube clone after Homeland Security determined there was an infringement?

Homeland Security - Keeping Americans safe from one fake Rubik's cube at a time. :\

Why not ask link list/tgp/mgp/tube/torrent sites to at *LEAST* add this to their rules.

"You must own and be able to produce on demand, license to publish all content included in your submission."

Exactly. I was on TorrentSpy last week and I got a popunder for NationalLampoon.com. The idea of them buying traffic for their website from a torrent site is ironic, but apparently they saw an opening. Does this mean the makers of other Hollywood films should be able to sue National Lampoon for supporting copyright theft?

Considering Photoshop costs $650, I think we know about what % of adult webmasters paid for it.

The vehicle for transfer is both the tracker and the users, which upload and download directly with each other. A lot of times the tracker isn't even affiliated with the torrent site itself. So you've got the torrent site just posting links to the tracker like a TGP posts links to a gallery.

To further complicate this, the guy running the tracker probably isn't even bound to 2257 since it's for commercial adult materials. Obviously there isn't professional commerce of any kind going on with the tracker.

Trading over torrents is just the 2007 version of trading through email attachments. I really don't think P2P adult porn trading is a priority for the FBI. So relying on them to shut down every torrent site is really reaching for the stars.

I bought my Photoshope from Adobe.com. Expensive, but this is not a hobby it's a business.

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/750709-legal-shit-stupid-sob.html
https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/755391-stolen-content-mgreg-mojohost.html
https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/750836-attn-mojohost-condone.html

cool thanks. :)

much appreciated.

also, to everyone posting, we all know what a shit sandwich this thing is, its confusing to say the least on all levels. it is that confusion and a few loop holes that allow this all to happen. those are the real issues. well, that and that fact that people who are supposed to support you fuck you by making money on your content by financing the piracy.

anyway, thanks for each and every comment, good an bad. :thumbsup

Hey, I fucking paid for it.
and dreamweaver, and flash, and.....

Was a crazy story, but a true one. HSA is massive. They went in her store, made her remove all of the Rubik's cube clones and waited til she finished. Then I think they found out later that they were mistaken.

reading now.

2257 is one of the major leveraging points of attack on the sites "redistributing" content.

First and foremost, I would like to express that I admire passion. I am a passionate guy myself. I fully understand the cause, the implications it has industry-wide, as well as how it can effect programs and webmasters alike.

I debated heavily as to whether or not to post in this thread, even in light of VG Content adding us to the bad business list. Taking that post into consideration along with the entire scope of the issue, I will respond honestly. Just the same that I have realized your perspective (as well as passion), I ask that you consider mine with similar respect.

The torrent issue is an issue that I fully comprehend, as well as empathize with. We don?t accept torrent or zango traffic; we never have. We have in fact taken private measures to prevent both methods of promotion. Assuming we haven?t because we don?t post about it on GFY is naïve. That said, we do depend on webmasters with watchful eyes to alert us with any infringements. We have never been slow to move on any complaints. The last time I looked, Wegcash has several representatives that are public, online the greater portion of both day and night, and more than willing to help. However, I see very few complaints regarding the issue.

While we all enjoy the fruits of a liberal industry that tends to allow for a pretty fun environment, when it comes to our business, we run it as professional as possible. Not only that, but we also have a long history of helping out this industry in times of need. We are likely one of the highest donating programs in the industry; however, we rarely do it in a public manner (with the acceptation of the Jim Guhn case). We conduct our business privately: We are, for lack of a better describer, an action-oriented program.

A1rek, I like you and I respect Shanes World as a program. I also understand why you are passionate about your cause. However, we handle our business differently. When and if we decide that we need to have something done about a torrent site, you can rest assured we will not make a post about it. We have issues that affect our company, however, we don?t believe that we should involve you in those issues. Those are our issues and rest assured, we will exercise all options to reach resolve. In my opinion, there are a variety of other methods that could be used to reach your goal. That said, I respect your chosen option, however, please don?t assume because programs don?t post about it, that they don?t fight against it.

Simply put, and in my humble opinion, much of this is marketing. Many programs get on the crusade against torrent sites as a method of marketing. I am not saying Shane?s World is doing that, I am also not saying that if programs are doing it, that there is anything wrong with it. I am saying it isn?t our style. We handle our issues privately and our marketing is and has been extremely effective. I also have zero interest in condemning other programs. Does that mean we support torrent sites? Absolutely not, and anyone thinking that is the case is being extremely narrow-minded in not realizing that causes can be fought effectively in private. I do not see the need for me to publicly condemn a program, in fact, many of the programs on the list I would consider friends. Our stance on torrent sites doesn?t involve crusades against other programs. Nasty Dollars has a standing invite to any dinner we hold, we don?t have to agree on the torrent issue. That is how we conduct our business. Its how we choose to fight causes.

My point in this is that threads such as this can lead to irresponsible slippery slopes. I hate to overstate my respect for your passion, but I don?t want to offend you. Wegcash being listed on a bad business list is not only inaccurate, but also similarly insulting. As much as we have given back to this industry, I would have expected more. If anyone knows absolutely anything about this industry and our program, than you would know that we don?t need torrent signups. We don?t even notice them if we are getting them. We see all referrers that come through our system, if they exist, they don?t amount to much. I hope that all the companies going public with their anti-torrent stances are dedicating that same energy privately, if however you are not, we respect you all the same.

In conclusion, I hope you don?t take my post as aggressive, rather as a passionate response to your passionate diatribe. Furthermore, please email [email protected] with any infringements or concerns and we will, as always, take care of it immediately.

Thanks and Best Regards,

Cory.

Those threads prove a couple things, but none of them dealing with Mojo and bad business.

Cory, so you're essentially saying that torrent traffic is minimal enough that you don't notice it in your referrers or signups. Any idea why other programs would continue to bother with them? If it is as tiny as you claim, the risk seems greater than the reward.

See sig :glugglug

is it wrong to use the very thing most of adult webmasters are fighting to fight a bigger evil?

I'm having riddick flashbacks....

I didn't say that. I said we don't take the traffic, however if we are listed somewhere, we don't see it.

Furthermore, I stated that if it is brought to our attention, we will deal with it accordingly as we don't accept it.