Originally Posted by baddog (Post 12940877)

Those threads prove a couple things, but none of them dealing with Mojo and bad business.

Originally Posted by WEG Cory (Post 12940848)

First and foremost, I would like to express that I admire passion. I am a passionate guy myself. I fully understand the cause, the implications it has industry-wide, as well as how it can effect programs and webmasters alike.

Originally Posted by WEG Cory (Post 12940848)

I debated heavily as to whether or not to post in this thread, even in light of VG Content adding us to the bad business list. Taking that post into consideration along with the entire scope of the issue, I will respond honestly. Just the same that I have realized your perspective (as well as passion), I ask that you consider mine with similar respect.

Originally Posted by WEG Cory (Post 12940848)

The torrent issue is an issue that I fully comprehend, as well as empathize with. We don?t accept torrent or zango traffic; we never have. We have in fact taken private measures to prevent both methods of promotion. Assuming we haven?t because we don?t post about it on GFY is naïve. That said, we do depend on webmasters with watchful eyes to alert us with any infringements. We have never been slow to move on any complaints. The last time I looked, Wegcash has several representatives that are public, online the greater portion of both day and night, and more than willing to help. However, I see very few complaints regarding the issue.

Originally Posted by WEG Cory (Post 12940848)

While we all enjoy the fruits of a liberal industry that tends to allow for a pretty fun environment, when it comes to our business, we run it as professional as possible. Not only that, but we also have a long history of helping out this industry in times of need. We are likely one of the highest donating programs in the industry; however, we rarely do it in a public manner (with the acceptation of the Jim Guhn case). We conduct our business privately: We are, for lack of a better describer, an action-oriented program.

Originally Posted by WEG Cory (Post 12940848)

A1rek, I like you and I respect Shanes World as a program. I also understand why you are passionate about your cause. However, we handle our business differently. When and if we decide that we need to have something done about a torrent site, you can rest assured we will not make a post about it. We have issues that affect our company, however, we don?t believe that we should involve you in those issues. Those are our issues and rest assured, we will exercise all options to reach resolve. In my opinion, there are a variety of other methods that could be used to reach your goal. That said, I respect your chosen option, however, please don?t assume because programs don?t post about it, that they don?t fight against it.

Originally Posted by WEG Cory (Post 12940848)

Simply put, and in my humble opinion, much of this is marketing. Many programs get on the crusade against torrent sites as a method of marketing. I am not saying Shane?s World is doing that, I am also not saying that if programs are doing it, that there is anything wrong with it. I am saying it isn?t our style. We handle our issues privately and our marketing is and has been extremely effective. I also have zero interest in condemning other programs. Does that mean we support torrent sites? Absolutely not, and anyone thinking that is the case is being extremely narrow-minded in not realizing that causes can be fought effectively in private. I do not see the need for me to publicly condemn a program, in fact, many of the programs on the list I would consider friends. Our stance on torrent sites doesn?t involve crusades against other programs. Nasty Dollars has a standing invite to any dinner we hold, we don?t have to agree on the torrent issue. That is how we conduct our business. Its how we choose to fight causes.

Originally Posted by WEG Cory (Post 12940848)

My point in this is that threads such as this can lead to irresponsible slippery slopes. I hate to overstate my respect for your passion, but I don?t want to offend you. Wegcash being listed on a bad business list is not only inaccurate, but also similarly insulting. As much as we have given back to this industry, I would have expected more. If anyone knows absolutely anything about this industry and our program, than you would know that we don?t need torrent signups. We don?t even notice them if we are getting them. We see all referrers that come through our system, if they exist, they don?t amount to much. I hope that all the companies going public with their anti-torrent stances are dedicating that same energy privately, if however you are not, we respect you all the same.

Originally Posted by WEG Cory (Post 12940848)

In conclusion, I hope you don?t take my post as aggressive, rather as a passionate response to your passionate diatribe. Furthermore, please email [email protected] with any infringements or concerns and we will, as always, take care of it immediately.

Originally Posted by swampthing (Post 12940999)

oh yea, of course not.


allowing people to link to mp3's.
allowing people to upload stolen content.

knowing about it and hiding behind dmca loopholes so they dont have to do anything about it.


I brought all of this up to them, and as you can see if you actually read the threads, they say..

"sorry, cant do nothing about it. Unless your the content owner, and send me a dmca notice, I am going to keep excepting his monthly hosting payment. Now, how can I fuck with you for bringing this up?"

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 12941068)

As a host, I can state that I am not going to judge how I deal with a client based on the allegations of some anon poster on a message board.

Originally Posted by swampthing (Post 12941145)

what does being anonymous have to do with it?

I see, so that makes him exempt for being told to either stop, or getting yanked.... just because I prefer to remain anonymous.

Lets just forget about the fact that he IS uploading stolen content and linking to mp3's.

So all in all, "terms of service agreements" only apply to all NON-BROS.

Originally Posted by WEG Cory (Post 12940906)

Brujah, also, I have no idea if other programs make a killing off the signups.

If we are listed somewhere, I can tell you that either A) We don't get a lot of traffic or B) Weg doesn't convert well on them.

Originally Posted by swampthing (Post 12935117)

I nominate MOJOHOST for bad business practices.

allowing mgreg from petiteteenager.com to link to stolen content, pics, and mp3's and hiding behind dmca loopholes.

Originally Posted by Matt 26z (Post 12939485)

.

Trading over torrents is just the 2007 version of trading through email attachments. I really don't think P2P adult porn trading is a priority for the FBI. So relying on them to shut down every torrent site is really reaching for the stars.

Originally Posted by RawAlex (Post 12941625)

Actually, if our industry goes forward and goes public and says "for all the bitching about commercial porn, there is way more porn and CP available on torrents, P2P networks, open forums, and various youtube clones that operate without regulation" we might be able to get the public's perception moved. Putting the information out there, talking it up, getting media coverage, etc... is the way that you move something from the back burner to the front burner.

Commercial porn sites have no interest in running CP. Commercial porn sites have no interest in attracting minors (they can't buy, so why bother) and Commercial porn sites are in the business of selling porn.

Yes, commercial porn site use galleries and video clips as sales material, but rarely are these clips over 20 seconds long, and rarely are there more than about 20 pictures on a page. We don't give unlimited and wide scope access to porn for free. In fact (making ASACP feel good) there is even industry moves to create proper and simple tagging that would make it easy for parents to block out commercial porn sites.

Having the FBI go out and do a 2257 records search on a tube site or a torrent tracker site in the US might really shake things up.

Bad business is as much about not caring about the repercussions of your desperate grabs for cash and traffic.

Originally Posted by Brad Mitchell (Post 12941271)

Make yourrself known to me, please. My lawyer is anxiously awaiting your information so that we can follow up on the libel and mudslinging in previous threads.

You do an excellent job avoiding all direct questions and requests. You have been especially proficient at getting dirty immediately, avoiding any common or professional courtesies and all attempts at rational conversation.

There are hundreds of people here who have met and respect me, my companies, and all of my various efforts in this industry - and for very good reasons. They and I are all wondering just what exactly is so wrong with you that you are incapable of either sending a properly formatted email or phoning me for a discussion? You conduct yourself unprofessionally and with an uneducated presumption of guilt on all issues.

I wonder if it's coincidence that for all the many years that site has been online you come out of the woodwork on GFY ranting about MojoHost the month that they go live on my network?

I'm calling you out for not qualifying yourself or your motives. They're not pure, that is obvious. You have singled out one site of over tens of thousands that we host and you still continue to sling mud. If it's a moral or ethical debate that you want with this guy then name yourself and your business and let's have it live on GFY or at a future venue.

It is absolutely amazing to me that anyone, truly anyone in our industry whatsoever, would choose to single out me of all people and of all hosting companies. The choice seems either very naive, stupid or alteriorly motivated.

And what is this "BRO" thing? You have absolutely no idea who I am. If you had ever met me at a tradeshow, I can assure you that I don't fit what seems to be the commonly accepted definition for that these days. I do business at shows, I surround myself with the highest quality people from all walks of webmaster life. I take offense to your suggestion that I'm part of any 'good old boy network'.

But thank you, really, I guess, because the more you talk the less people are listening to you.

Brad

Originally Posted by swampthing (Post 12941840)

what are you doing about him linking to mp3's?
what are you doing about him uploading stolen content?

Originally Posted by swampthing (Post 12941840)

what are you doing about him linking to mp3's?
what are you doing about him uploading stolen content?

Originally Posted by kicks (Post 12946338)

swampthing: It is obvious you simply do not understand a few things regarding what a host can and can not do or how a DMCA works. No problem, several don't.

First Brad has no control over links to or links from, he is a host. We do not censor, we are not the content cops of the web. We can and do set rules regarding the services we provide BUT and please dont take offense to this, you, from what you have said, you are not the content owner which you claimed was stolen. There are no "Loop Holes" in DMCA it was written to do exactly what it does. A legal DMCA puts certain legal liabilities on the person making the claim that if it is a false claim they are subject to legal actions. It is setup so the owner or legal agent of the content files it. Web hosts can are not required to "judge" anyone in this we simply have to comply to all legally submitted DMCA complaints. It was done this way intentionally to protect content owners, web site owners and the host. If we responded every time so someone said so sites would be down all the time just because you or someone else may have the red ass towards someone else. We live in a civilized world so that is not acceptable to anyone. Look at the big picture.

If web hosts had the power you seem to feel we have... well the world as we know it would be a lot different for sure. He like myself is a businessman, our time is not free. We have obligations to our customers regardless of your thoughts. We are not investigators, judges or law enforcement, we are just web hosts/ISP. We have to operate within the laws in place.

This all said I do understand what you are trying to accomplish but you are simply blaming the wrong party and attempting to get action from the wrong party. If you are aware of content that is stolen then you contact the legal owner, they file a proper DMCA and Brad or any other ISP or host has no choice but to remove the content. That simple. DMCA protects us from legal actions when we take those steps because they are required by law. In regards to links from a customers sites to claimed illegal content... well to my knowledge there is nothing about that in the laws, DMCA done right would mean the link would die and no longer be valid. So again, approach the right people and you get the result you are looking for.

I support everything that A1R3K is trying to accomplish with this and he already knows that.

I want to add something for those who have already or are planning to submit a DMCA complaint, CC the bandwidth providers. They don't like dealing with those type issues no more than a host does. If there is a host that you feel is not responding in a timely manner continue to send the request, contact the bandwidth provider directly if needed. Regardless if they see constant DMCAs hitting their inbox they will grow tired of it and apply pressures on the host and shut off the bandwidth if needed... well most would, same as it can happen with spam.

In the end what it seems you would like to see is web hosts working in a proactive manner rather than a reactive manner to this stuff and I seriously doubt anyone here would want that since the cost of hosting would go nuts with us having to hire staff to check millions of links that we are hosting on a regular basis to find proof of illegal actions. I am not even going to guess the man hours it would take, I suppose we could setup stuff so no page would go live until we checked everything on it... I am sure everyone here would love that, waiting weeks for legally bound web hosts to approve their new pages before they go up while true illegal operations would still be making changes as always... it just would not work and would be bad for all parties. All this has been debated before and the result was DMCA.

Hmmm wonder what kind of badges we would get... nah we dont need no stinking badges.

Mojo is a competitor plain and simple and Brad knows if he was doing something wrong I would say so, but in this case he is bound both by law and protecting his other customers who have nothing to do with what you are complaining about. If he reacted just on your words he could put other customers in jeopardy since the result could be a lot of legal battles at great expense which would have to be absorbed by the company. Look at the big picture.

Originally Posted by RawAlex (Post 12946738)

Kicks, one of the things about DMCA is that if the party owning the site isn't responsive and doesn't take action, the host once notified really does need to get involved. This is doubly true if the whois information on the domain in question isn't valid or the domain owner cannot be contacted (say a registered letter is returned unopened or the owner cannot be served). At that point the host does have responsibilities to block access to the offending material until such time that the site owner can clarify their rights to the material.

Filing of a false DMCA report is actionable, so people can't just randomly dump stuff on hosts without backing.

A host that fails to take action in a reasonable time after notification leaves themselves open to further legal action, contributory copyright infringement, etc. Hosts may think they are safe but they have responsbilities as well.

Originally Posted by swampthing (Post 12946693)

Thats all nice and lovely excuses for not having to do anything about it.
Brad doesnt even want to look at the links to the mp3's on the top of gregs page. Brad says he doesnt know of any links to mp3's, Yet, there they are, on the top of the guys page, everyday.

Brad doesnt want to look at the countless pages of stolen pictures on the gregs site, yet there they are, everyday.

and yet, Im the one getting legal threats for pointing this out.

way to go, you industry leaders :thumbsup

Originally Posted by kicks (Post 12947051)

Did you bother to read the post?

If Brad was willing to put his business in jeopardy because you say he should I expect a lot of customers would be leaving him and no one would blame them. Web Host have a far larger responsibility than one web site or customer we host thousands of sites and customers to be concerned with. Doing what you are asking is putting them all at risk. Sorry if you can not comprehend this.

I am trying to respond to you as a person that must not understand things and not as a person that is attempting to trash someone be it Brad, his customer or myself but it is starting to very much look like that is all you are here to do. If you have something constructive to add to things that would help everyone great but other wise you are just taking up time and detracting people from the real topic and issues that some are trying very hard to take a real approach instead of a knee jerk reaction. If you want change you do it the right way and this thread was started with that purpose in mind. Save your accusations and make valid suggestions for a real solution, ones that don't put businesses and their customers and their businesses all at risk.

Regarding the legal threats you may or may not be getting, you are responsible for your own actions same as everyone else, it's an adult thing.

Originally Posted by WEG Cory (Post 12940848)

First and foremost, I would like to express that I admire passion. I am a passionate guy myself. I fully understand the cause, the implications it has industry-wide, as well as how it can effect programs and webmasters alike.

I debated heavily as to whether or not to post in this thread, even in light of VG Content adding us to the bad business list. Taking that post into consideration along with the entire scope of the issue, I will respond honestly. Just the same that I have realized your perspective (as well as passion), I ask that you consider mine with similar respect.

The torrent issue is an issue that I fully comprehend, as well as empathize with. We don?t accept torrent or zango traffic; we never have. We have in fact taken private measures to prevent both methods of promotion. Assuming we haven?t because we don?t post about it on GFY is naïve. That said, we do depend on webmasters with watchful eyes to alert us with any infringements. We have never been slow to move on any complaints. The last time I looked, Wegcash has several representatives that are public, online the greater portion of both day and night, and more than willing to help. However, I see very few complaints regarding the issue.

While we all enjoy the fruits of a liberal industry that tends to allow for a pretty fun environment, when it comes to our business, we run it as professional as possible. Not only that, but we also have a long history of helping out this industry in times of need. We are likely one of the highest donating programs in the industry; however, we rarely do it in a public manner (with the acceptation of the Jim Guhn case). We conduct our business privately: We are, for lack of a better describer, an action-oriented program.

A1rek, I like you and I respect Shanes World as a program. I also understand why you are passionate about your cause. However, we handle our business differently. When and if we decide that we need to have something done about a torrent site, you can rest assured we will not make a post about it. We have issues that affect our company, however, we don?t believe that we should involve you in those issues. Those are our issues and rest assured, we will exercise all options to reach resolve. In my opinion, there are a variety of other methods that could be used to reach your goal. That said, I respect your chosen option, however, please don?t assume because programs don?t post about it, that they don?t fight against it.

Simply put, and in my humble opinion, much of this is marketing. Many programs get on the crusade against torrent sites as a method of marketing. I am not saying Shane?s World is doing that, I am also not saying that if programs are doing it, that there is anything wrong with it. I am saying it isn?t our style. We handle our issues privately and our marketing is and has been extremely effective. I also have zero interest in condemning other programs. Does that mean we support torrent sites? Absolutely not, and anyone thinking that is the case is being extremely narrow-minded in not realizing that causes can be fought effectively in private. I do not see the need for me to publicly condemn a program, in fact, many of the programs on the list I would consider friends. Our stance on torrent sites doesn?t involve crusades against other programs. Nasty Dollars has a standing invite to any dinner we hold, we don?t have to agree on the torrent issue. That is how we conduct our business. Its how we choose to fight causes.

My point in this is that threads such as this can lead to irresponsible slippery slopes. I hate to overstate my respect for your passion, but I don?t want to offend you. Wegcash being listed on a bad business list is not only inaccurate, but also similarly insulting. As much as we have given back to this industry, I would have expected more. If anyone knows absolutely anything about this industry and our program, than you would know that we don?t need torrent signups. We don?t even notice them if we are getting them. We see all referrers that come through our system, if they exist, they don?t amount to much. I hope that all the companies going public with their anti-torrent stances are dedicating that same energy privately, if however you are not, we respect you all the same.

In conclusion, I hope you don?t take my post as aggressive, rather as a passionate response to your passionate diatribe. Furthermore, please email [email protected] with any infringements or concerns and we will, as always, take care of it immediately.

Thanks and Best Regards,

Cory.

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 12947313)

No offense to anyone else, but this post just got me to sign up for Weg and promote them. I am always impressed by Cory's writing, and ability to communicate.

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 12947329)

Has any of the ass kissing ever paid off for you? Im curious.

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 12947366)

So Tony stating my opinion is now ass kissing? What exactly do I have to gain by that opinion. Do tell.... Are you jumping on the bash Sticky wagon again? Thought we had aired our differences. :disgust

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 12947366)

So Tony stating my opinion is now ass kissing? What exactly do I have to gain by that opinion. Do tell.... Are you jumping on the bash Sticky wagon again? Thought we had aired our differences. :disgust

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 12947538)

Im not bashing you at all I'm curious, its not like its subtle.

Originally Posted by A1R3K (Post 12932727)

Ok,

Seeing that there are so many people that think its cool to take away from the industry instead of contribute it to it, we at Shane's World would like to extend a hand to ANY and ALL companies and individuals that are willing to take the same stand that we are in the fight against content theft and overall well being of an industry that is attacked from all angles by the parasites of the intranets, and from within in the form of undercover "bros".


First things first. List all companies that profit from the theft of content. If you find evidence of financing piracy or blatant content theft, please post it here. We already know of a few that try to skate on the edges of the law to make a few bucks extra at the expense of others. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE PROOF!

meow.

We are in fact going to extend our hand to anyone who wants to take a stand with us and say that we will make every effort to work with any company that wants to help deter the theft of very expensive content.

You don't have to be a content producer. Affiliates are encouraged to help twart the devaluation of adult content as well. After all, in the long run it hurts us all, whether you can see it now or not.

Please help us fight the fight to protect our futures in adult online. I'll get this way more organized here in the short term future, for now this is an idea that I want to see how much support is there for it.

To those that are interested in supporting the cause we will work with you in whatever fashion we can. What we're essentially looking for are committed eyes to police ourself. If we don't do that rest assured that those who feed off of our resources for profit will become that much stronger. For people on the list of industry supporters, we will work together on anything we can from within the circle of people that don't want to be part of the other circle. This industry is segregated on so many other levels, whats another one really going to hurt.

A website will be created to house evidence AND PROOF of those financing piracy.

Thanks for your support. For those of you that think I am beating an animal that feels no pain, stop for a second and think how you would conduct business without content. There are a very very small amount of you that do not rely on content to make a living in some fashion. Really think about it. If tomorrow there was NO content available, would it affect your business?


Sign yourself up by copying and pasting this list as you quote to add yourself
If you are intimidated to post here, you can email or icq us. support at shanesworld or my icq in my sig.



--------------------------------------------

Good Business List

1. Shane's World
2.
3.
4.
5.

-add more





Bad Business List

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

-add more

--------------------------------------------------------


Grass roots efforts have been started for less important things and made a positive impact.


Thanks

BUMP FOR THE CAUSE even if you think I'm a douche. This is about the industry, not me.

Originally Posted by Brujah (Post 12947551)

If I weren't graphically challenged, I would design a bash sticky banner.

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 12947578)

To say I in any way kiss anyones ass is quite a laugh. If I was an ass kisser that said things just to appease everyone, I dont think Id have quite so many "fans" I say what I think and what I believe. :2 cents:

Originally Posted by Shakula (Post 12947585)

Airek, dont start something you cant finish
If you can remove content from www.piratebay.org, then there is hope.
If you cant (which i know you cant) then just end it and stop waisting your time. Torrents arent illegal in most countries, thats like saying the postoffice is illegal.

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 12947593)

Interesting Ive spoken quite favorably about you in the past even though it was in opposition to those I consider friends.. :disgust

Originally Posted by Brujah (Post 12947614)

:winkwink: I would do it for the joke, not because I hate you. Uno says good things about you, but I'm not sure why with you being all Michael Keaton like.

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 12947594)

Ok I read it wrong I was mistaken.

Originally Posted by A1R3K (Post 12947603)

this isn't my crusade. this is studios in l.a. and all over the world.

i am merely a voice. people can like it or not.

this is pandora's box.

none of this is funded by me. we are merely assisting in building a board and association to help fight piracy.

i won't make 13 cents from this all.

heres :2 cents: back. now i'm in the hole two cents already. :)