Many apologies J. Falcon...I must be new here. I overlooked the fact that you are wise and all knowing with just over a year on this forum. Please accept my apology and this severed goat penis as a peace offering.

once again the lonesome rider is fighting for his country.

what a blessing moment

This thread is full with nonsense.

lol.. this is such a waste of time.. Moore is a jackass. Who cares if he is fat.. his "FICTIONAL" movies are nothing close to a documentary but they sell to the sheeple.. so thats all that matters.

Why dont you go ahead and be the first to point out his lies?

You are so right,they say he lies and show no examples. In 911 alot it was newsclips, how can you lie with a news clip? Does he slant to his way of thinking yes and thats why one does a documentary but lie I think not.

Falcon, what you need to do before involving yourself in a grown up conversation is calm down. All you're doing in this thread is making yourself look like a fucking maniac. Whether or not you have a valid point doesn't even make a difference, you sound too crazy to listen to. So stop being a douche.

It's not so much that he lies, it's that he implies things are worse than they are.

For instance, in bowling for columbine Moore would have us believe you can walk in to a bank, open an account and walk out with a gun. Of course it doesn't really work like that. It was setup ahead of time so that he could do that, but you can't walk in to the bank open an account and leave armed.

In Farenheit, he makes a big deal about a single Oregeon State highway patrolman being responsible for the entire coast line, leading us to believe that there's just one person defending the coast from terrorists. What he doesn't mention is the highway patrol doesn't defend the coast, the coast guard does.

Moore makes some good points and certainly brings to light some issues that are important and should be considered but I can't help but wish he'd lose the sensationalism just a little bit. :2 cents:

wow, some rational thinking. Haven't seen that on this thread since page 2.

I cant help but get emotional when someone says they are in favor of torturing people for informatin. What can I say?

Other than that, my other posts have been quite rational.

Some points of reference:

Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fift...enheit-911.htm

Unfairenheit 9/11
http://slate.com/id/2102723/

The Critical Lies of Michael Moore
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/moore.htm

a bonus read... http://www.houseofdiabolique.com/arc...ore010504.html

Now, if you want more, i could provide you at least another 50 or so, but if your of the predetermined mindset, that Moore is "right-on", then there isn't much I could display to begin with that would sway your already bias position.

Those are not the impressions I got from those two movies at all. The bank scene was one particular bank that was doing that, and he did say so. As for the patrolman scene, I think the topic there was how even small towns like that could be targets for terroists attacks, and therefor filled with paranoia.

Where did I say I was in favor of it? I said it has it's place, always has and probably always will. You're talking about people getting tortured during Apartheid, that was genocide, not war. I never said anything remotely favoring it, I just said it worked. Deal with it.

Then you obvioulsy either have your head up your ass or you are just reading what you want to read.

Lets not forget, that the WAL MART shown in the Columbine movie, that attempts to illistrate the ease in which amnunition is purchased, wasn't even on American soil - much less ANYWHERE near Columbine.

Clever, still attacking instead of making points? I can just see the intelligence spilling out of you.

I think this is what you are referring to:

"Forbes reports that an early scene in "Bowling" in which Mr. Moore tries to demonstrate how easy it is to obtain guns in America was staged. He goes to a small bank in Traverse City, Mich., that offers various inducements to open an account and claims "I put $1,000 in a long-term account, they did the background check, and, within an hour, I walked out with my new Weatherby," a rifle.

But Jan Jacobson, the bank employee who worked with Mr. Moore on his account, says that only happened because Mr. Moore's film company had worked for a month to stage the scene. "What happened at the bank was a prearranged thing," she says. The gun was brought from a gun dealer in another city, where it would normally have to be picked up. "Typically, you're looking at a week to 10 days waiting period," she says. Ms. Jacobson feels used: "He just portrayed us as backward hicks."

Also from Wikipedia:

Moore later responded to these criticisms, writing,"Nothing was done out of the ordinary other than to phone ahead and ask permission to let me bring a camera in to film me opening up my account." He also states that the background check took less than ten minutes and he was handed the rifle five minutes later. Moore posted a compilation of out-takes from the documentary to support his version of events. This video shows Jacobson explaining the process to Moore, including that the rifles are held in the bank's vault.[9] The footage in which an employee states that the guns are stored in the bank's vault appears in televised broadcasts of the film.

I said South America not South Africa. Where I live. Dictatorships, supported and funded by the greatest nation on earth, where experts in torture were send down here to teach us hot torture more efficiently. I lived with that shit. I know friends who still dont know where their family members are. And you say it's not right for me to get emotional? What the fuck is wrong with you?

And you did say you were in favor.

Clear enough?

Well, prisoners of war expect it. It's how the whole thing works. Do you think your friends would of tortured someone to find out where their friends might be...who knows, but probably. What would you do if you were in a room with the person who tortured your friends and he wouldn't tell you were they were? Would you ask him really hard?

They were not prisoners of war they were civilians who were detained on the street or inside their homes. How can you justify torture? How do you know the person you are torturing has the info you need? Should you just continue torturing until you are completely sure? Remember the Holy Inquisition?

Let me try to make this as clear as possible: I would apply torture to another human being if it mean saving all humanity. Ok? I think it's sick. And I think people who try to justify it have serious problems.

If they weren't prisoners of war, I guess I wasn't talking about them in any of my posts. All of my post's were talking about prisoners of war...during war times. I'm sorry your friends were tortured, but let me make it as clear to you as possible. Torture has been implemented during war for as far back as history is recorded, as it will continue I'm sure. Why is that? Because it works, as gruesome as it is, it works. Ends justify the means and all that shit.

What the hell is hot torture, is that some S and M shit?

Don't give up your day job yet .... Standup comic is not in your future :2 cents:

That dude is pathetic.

Go cry, bitch. :321GFY

That's what I thought.

In five years, Mr. Moore and Rush Limbaugh will play opposite one another in a weightloss contest televised by Lifetime or Bravo.

If this doesn't upset you as much as Michael Moore being called fat you're a hypocrite. How could an intelligent man like Al Franken stoop to such a level?
http://www.jxflagg.com/images/alfranken.jpg

don't bother... it's soooooo easy to find a rebuttal to every claim that Moore 'lies' that if someone spouts that bullshit it's because they don't give a flying fuck for what's true and what's not. 99% of the time the sites and people who claim to 'refute' Moore have to twist themselves into a pretzel to even imply that he was being misleading. Right wingers are idiots. If they weren't they wouldn't be right wingers. They'll never shut up, never consider their opinions a second time, they'll go on and on and on and eventually drag you down into the muck they swim in and drown you.

Playful commentary from the man who wanted to confront Limbaugh with his own tactics, more or less, except that Franken never had to lie or make fun of any children's appearance.

Michael Moore is kind of cool. If I were that ugly and talentless but could STILL garner as much attention and money as he has ...

Watch sicko free online,

http://www.tubezoom.com/showthread.php?t=1316

Thank you,you are so right and for the others:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-fi...ndex.php?id=16

word:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

So, where was it ? Any proof ...

Don't quote those links above... Anybody can write that... How about what YOU know are lies....

Relying on those links is just like BUSH:

" we have been informed by the British government that Saddam Hussein is trying to acquire yellow cake ... " ....

Basing your claims on false facts.


BTW, I saw Ann Coulter tonight on O'Reilly ... She attributed the term liberal to Bill ..... :1orglaugh

No, but we can take assault rifles away and get serious about background checks for handguns, that would be a good start.

maybe I'm just being selfish...but I'm going to resurrect this thread because it seems like a good thing to do on a friday afternoon. It looks like I'm not the only one who is highly entertained by this discussion. Although I'm not sure how it turned into another argument about gun laws in the US.

Not a bad idea at all.