psili

I base my opinions on how the world (should) work.

Any group that overpopulates and exceeds the carrying capacity of its environment should face the consequences.

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seven

And who decides a group overpopulating or exceeding carrying capacity of its environment? A Pornmonger? Cos surely the economists are not

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seven

Just to point out that your "we the people" includes me too Said this before.. stop calling me a 'Jose' just cause I'm not being a hypocrite like yourself. Now, taking laws into our own hands is illegal and punishable by the very law here in this country that we call the U.S. of A

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psili

I think people trying to flee their current environment due to distress is a decent determining factor.

And yes, I'll be the first to admit my statement's a bit harsh. I find it troubling and very saddening that groups of humans can't find a sustainable balance in their part of the world. I think they should be helped, to an extent.

I will, however, never support the illegal proliferation of such groups that can't seem to sustain themselves into other groups that are sustaining themselves (or trying to, regardless of how fucked the leaders in the government are).

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eviltang

AMEN! QUOTED FOR TRUTH!

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Anthony

Doctor Dre is a canadian, and was talking Canada.

This whole immigrant thing is bullshit.

I am an immigrant to the United States, a LEGAL one. My parents brought me over 30 years ago as a child. My parents took the steps to become US citizens, as did MILLIONS of Natrulized Citizens.

Why must we give special treatment to other minorities?

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seven

Someone said before that mexivans were not being deported?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12174500/

Can someone tell me again why we aren't whining about chinese illegals at all??

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escorpio

Because The Minutemen don't have the balls to pull the shit here in Santa Cruz that they do in Cochise. The demographic is a little different.

And that "left wing wacko blog" provided plenty of evidence about the true roots and motivations behind The Minutemen. Sorry it burst your little bubble.

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escorpio

Yes, I know Dre is Canadian. I was being facetious.

That's great that you and your family had the means to come here through the proper channels. I am not for illegal immigration, I am for changing the process so that it's easier for people in desperate straits to enter the U.S. to work.

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sperbonzo

Taking the law into their own hands? What they do is perfectly legal. When they see someone entering the country illegally, they observe and call/radio the border patrol. That's all.

http://www.minutemanproject.com/

http://www.minutemanhq.com/pdf_files...ng_manual2.pdf

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sperbonzo

The Church of Morris Dees

By Ken Silverstein -- Harper's Magazine, November 2000

How the Southern Poverty Law Center profits from intolerance

Ah, tolerance. Who could be against something so virtuous? And who could object to the Southern Poverty Law Center, the Montgomery, Alabama-based group that recently sent out this heartwarming yet mildly terrifying appeal to raise money for its "Teaching Tolerance" program, which prepares educational kits for schoolteachers? Cofounded in 1971 by civil rights lawyer cum direct-marketing millionaire Morris Dees, a leading critic of "hate groups" and a man so beatific that he was the subject of a made-for-TV movie, the SPLC spent much of its early years defending prisoners who faced the death penalty and suing to desegregate all-white institutions like Alabama's highway patrol. That was then.

Today, the SPLC spends most of its time--and money--on a relentless fund-raising campaign, peddling memberships in the church of tolerance with all the zeal of a circuit rider passing the collection plate. "He's the Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker of the civil rights movement," renowned anti- death-penalty lawyer Millard Farmer says of Dees, his former associate, "though I don!t mean to malign Jim and Tammy Faye." The Center earned $44 million last year alone--$27 million from fund-raising and $17 million from stocks and other investments--but spent only $13 million on civil rights program , making it one of the most profitable charities in the country.

The Ku Klux Klan, the SPLC's most lucrative nemesis, has shrunk from 4 million members in the 1920s to an estimated 2,000 today, as many as 10 percent of whom are thought to be FBI informants <http://www.servtech.com/~grugyn/kkk-5.htm> . But news of a declining Klan does not make for inclining donations to Morris Dees and Co., which is why the SPLC honors nearly every nationally covered "hate crime" with direct-mail alarums full of nightmarish invocations of "armed Klan paramilitary forces" and "violent neo-Nazi extremists," and why Dees does legal battle almost exclusively with mediagenic villains-like Idaho's arch-Aryan Richard Butler-eager to show off their swastikas for the news cameras.

In 1987, Dees won a $7 million judgment against the United Klans of America on behalf of Beulah Mae Donald, whose son was lynched by two Klansmen. The UKA's total assets amounted to a warehouse whose sale netted Mrs. Donald $51,875. According to a groundbreaking series of newspaper stories in the Montgomery Advertiser, the SPLC, meanwhile, made $9 million from fund-raising solicitations featuring the case, including one containing a photo of Michael Donald's corpse.

Horrifying as such incidents are, hate groups commit almost no violence. More than 95 percent of all "hate crimes," including most of the incidents SPLC letters cite (bombings, church burnings, school shootings), are perpetrated by "lone wolves." Even Timothy McVeigh, subject of one of the most extensive investigations in the FBI's history-and one of the most extensive direct-mail campaigns in the SPLC's-was never credibly linked to any militia organization.

No faith healing or infomercial would be complete without a moving testimonial. The student from whose tears this white schoolteacher learned her lesson is identified only as a child of color. "Which race," we are assured, "does not matter." Nor apparently does the specific nature of "the racist acts directed at him," nor the race of his schoolyard tormentors. All that matters, in fact, is the race of the teacher and those expiating tears. "I wept with him, feeling for once, the depth of his hurt," she confides. "His tears washed away the film that had distorted my white perspective of the world." Scales fallen from her eyes, what action does this schoolteacher propose? What Gandhi-like disobedience will she undertake in order to "reach real peace in the world"? She doesn't say but instead speaks vaguely of acting out against "the pain." In the age of Oprah and Clinton, empathy--or the confession thereof--is an end in itself.

Any good salesman knows that a products "value" is a highly mutable quality with little relation to actual worth, and Morris Dees-who made millions hawking, by direct mail, such humble commodities as birthday cakes, cookbooks (including Favorite Recipes of American Home Economics Teachers), tractor seat cushions, rat poison, and, in exchange for a mailing list containing 700,000 names, presidential candidate George McGovern-is nothing if not a good salesman. So good in fact that in 1998 the Direct Marketing Association inducted him into its Hall of Fame. "I learned everything I know about hustling from the Baptist Church," Dees has said. "Spending Sundays on those hard benches listening to the preacher pitch salvation-why, it was like getting a Ph.D. in selling." Here, Dr. Dees (the letter's nominal author) masterfully transforms, with a mere flourish of hyperbole, an education kit available "at cost" for $30 on the SPLC website into "a $325 value."

This is one of the only places in this letter where specific races are mentioned. Elsewhere, Dees and his copywriters, deploying an arsenal of passive verbs and vague abstractions, have sanitized the usually divisive issue of race of its more disturbing elements-such as angry black people-and for good reason: most SPLC donors are white. Thus, instead of concrete civil rights issues like housing discrimination and racial profiling, we get "communities seething with racial violence." Instead of racially biased federal sentencing laws, or the disparity between poor predominantly black schools and affluent white ones, or the violence against illegals along the Mexican border, the SPLC gives us "intolerance against those who are different," turning bigotry into a color-blind, equal-opportunity sin. It's reassuring to know that "Caucasians" are no more and no less guilty of this sin than African Americans, Asian Americans, Native Americans, and Hispanics. In the eyes of Morris Dees, we're all sinners, all victims, and all potential contributors.

Morris Dees doesn't need your financial support. The SPLC is already the wealthiest civil rights group in America, though this letter quite naturally omits that fact. Other solicitations have been more flagrantly misleading. One pitch, sent out in 1995-when the Center had more than $60 million in reserves-informed would-be donors that the "strain on our current operating budget is the greatest in our 25-year history." Back in 1978, when the Center had less than $10 million, Dees promised that his organization would quit fund-raising and live off interest as soon as its endowment hit $55 million. But as it approached that figure, the SPLC upped the bar to $100 million, a sum that, one 1989 newsletter promised, would allow the Center "to cease the costly and often unreliable task of fund raising. " Today, the SPLC's treasury bulges with $120 million, and it spends twice as much on fund-raising-$5.76 million last year-as it does on legal services for victims of civil rights abuses. The American Institute of Philanthropy gives the Center one of the worst ratings of any group it monitors, estimating that the SPLC could operate for 4.6 years without making another tax-exempt nickel from its investments or raising another tax-deductible cent from well-meaning "people like you."

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sperbonzo

cont....


The SPLC's "other important work justice" consists mainly in spying on private citizens who belong to "hate groups," sharing its files with law-enforcement agencies, and suing the most prominent of these groups for crimes committed independently by their members-a practice that, however seemingly justified, should give civil libertarians pause. The legal strategy employed by Dees could have put the Black Panther Party out of business or bankrupted the New England Emigrant Aid Company in retaliation for crimes committed by John Brown. What the Center's other work for justice does not include is anything that might be considered controversial by donors. According to Millard Farmer, the Center largely stopped taking death-penalty cases for fear that too visible an opposition to capital punishment would scare off potential contributors. In 1986, the Center's entire legal staff quit in protest of Dees's refusal to address issues-such as homelessness, voter registration, and affirmative action-that they considered far more pertinent to poor minorities, if far less marketable to affluent benefactors, than fighting the KKK. Another lawyer, Gloria Browne, who resigned a few years later, told reporters that the Center's programs were calculated to cash in on "black pain and white guilt." Asked in 1994 if the SPLC itself, whose leadership consists almost entirely of white men, was in need of an affirmative action policy, Dees replied that "probably the most discriminated people in America today are white men when it comes to jobs."

Contributors to Teaching Tolerance might be surprised to learn how little of the SPLC's reported educational spending actually goes to education. In response to lobbying by charities, the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants in 1987 began allowing nonprofits to count part of their fundraising costs as "educational" so long as their solicitations contained an informational component. On average, the SPLC classifies an estimated 47 percent of the fund-raising letters that it sends out every year as educational, including many that do little more than instruct potential donors on the many evils of "militant right-wing extremists" and the many splendid virtues of Morris Dees. According to tax documents, of the $10. 8 million in educational spending the SPLC reported in 1999, $4 million went to solicitations. Another $2.4 million paid for stamps.

In the early 1960s, Morris Dees sat on the sidelines honing his direct-marketing skills and practicing law while the civil rights movement engulfed the South. "Morris and I...shared the overriding purpose of making a pile of money," recalls Dees's business partner, a lawyer named Millard Fuller (not to be confused with Millard Farmer). "We were not particular about how we did it; we just wanted to be independently rich." They were so unparticular, in fact, that in 1961 they defended a man, guilty of beating up a journalist covering the Freedom Riders, whose legal fees were paid by the Klan. ("I felt the anger of a black person for the first time," Dees later wrote of the case. "I vowed then and there that nobody would ever again doubt where I stood.") In 1965, Fuller sold out to Dees, donated the money to charity, and later started Habitat for Humanity. Dees bought a 200-acre estate appointed with tennis courts, a pool, and stables, and, in 1971, founded the SPLC, where his compensation has risen in proportion to fund-raising revenues, from nothing in the early seventies to $273,000 last year. A National Journal survey of salaries paid to the top officers of advocacy groups shows that Dees earned more in 1998 than nearly all of the seventy-eight listed, tens of thousands more than the heads of such groups as the ACLU, the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, and the Children's Defense Fund. The more money the SPLC receives, the less that goes to other civil rights organizations, many of which, including the NAACP, have struggled to stay out of bankruptcy. Dees's compensation alone amounts to one quarter the annual budget of the Atlanta-based Southern Center for Human Rights, which handles several dozen death-penalty cases a year. "You are a fraud and a conman," the Southern Center's director, Stephen Bright, wrote in a 1996 letter to Dees, and proceeded to list his many reasons for thinking so, which included "your failure to respond to the most desperate needs of the poor and powerless despite your millions upon millions, your fund-raising techniques, the fact that you spend so much, accomplish so little, and promote yourself so shamelessly." Soon the SPLC win move into a new six-story headquarters in downtown Montgomery, just across the street from its current headquarters, a building known locally as the Poverty Palace.

(Original URL: http://www.texasls.org/articles/read...orris_dees.htm)

Also see: Intolerance Identified -- Morris Dees & The Southern Poverty Law Center
The Laissez Faire City Times, Vol 4, No 50, December 11, 2000

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seven

summary please?

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escorpio

sperbinzo thinks that if he posts an article discrediting the SPLC it changes who Jim Gilchrist and Chris Simcox are and what The Minutemen are truly about. It doesn't.

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CDSmith

Best post in this thread so far. Nailed several points to a T.

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seven

I think just about every damn body in the whole wide world thinks his/her own story is sadder than others lol.. now we are not talking about how sad you were when your girldfriend dumped you just so ya know. You could march into Canada, illegals from U.S. is marching into Canada everyday (you should know that better being in Canada) but they seek (ie. they are allowed to) assylum at the border because maybe Canada cares about human rights more or maybe cause Canada doesn't see 1/1000th of the attempts as u.s. does from mexico border. Now, people from other nations cannot march into Canada is true because there's no land surrounding Canada other than the south border, not to mention the fucking cold weather in Canada makes it almost impossible to live in many parts of canada. And by air when someone tries to come (and by God they do) he/she goes thru 4/5 tough checkpoints checking their document therefore, makes it 10 times harder for them to get into Canada from other nations same as the U.S. Now, people still come and overstay their VISA just like the U.S. Illegals, still come riding containers but Canada ofcourse is not as lucrative to working class as U.S. is. Canada doesn't have 1/1000th of the jobs available in the U.S. so illegals are not as eager to march into Canada as they are to U.S. and who the fuck would wanna go to Russia or China to work when their people actually illegally coming to U.S./Canada to work? So could you guys please stop comparing apples to oranges? That will be nice, thnx.

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minusonebit

Silly me, I thought we were the ones who got fucked by NAFTA when all our jobs went to Mexico.

stickyfingerz

You realize he SUPPORTS immigration right?

stickyfingerz

Hmm who signed Nafta into being.... cough cough

escorpio

So because the U.S.A. got fucked you think Mexico didn't get fucked too? Isn't it possible NAFTA has caused hardships in both countries?

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aico

I am sorry, being the simpleton that i am, can you please explain to me what anit-immigration means?

The key to calling someone stupid is to look smart... consider yourself a failure on all counts.

escorpio

Pointing out a typo? Is that the best you can do?

PS - you didn't capitalize "I". Thanks for playing. Would you like to try again?

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escorpio

The key to calling someone on a typo is to not make one yourself when doing so.

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aico

Not sure which one i should respond to, both are so witty and great, how about you give us one more, so you can bask in your intellectual glory one more time, cuz 3's the charm don'tcha know.

escorpio

O.K., I'll have another go...

Four pages of people actually discussing the issue and you're the first person to bring up the typo in a feeble attempt to look intelligent and you fuck up. How does it feel?

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KRL

Whatever your opinion is on immigration, we all have to acknowledge the reality of the situation.

You can't just say kick them all out, put up a 20 foot wall and say done.

We have 110 Million people in Mexico as our neighbors. Its not like they are on the other side of the world. They are right next door. We have to be aware of what is going on just like you do with the person who lives next to your home.

After Canada, Mexico is our 2nd biggest trade partner. So from a business standpoint you don't ignore the problems of your major partner.

So the problem isn't going to disappear with a magic fence or loading them up on buses every day. That is not a solution. Just more bandaids. The country to the south of us needs open heart surgery. Their elite system of either rich or poor is impacting us. Its time to develop solutions on how to provide opportunities for people in Mexico so they won't come here. Only then will the problem be solved. They don't come here to sunbathe. They come here for only one thing work. In Mexico they make $5 a day. Here they can make 10 times that.

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escorpio

KRL - I admire your grasp of this complex issue and respect your willingness to speak out.

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aico

Oh, should I post links of other peoples information, assuming to take credit as it being my original thought, then call everyone a simpleton? Would that be better? Would that put me more on your superior level?

This is the part where you call me names, probably idiot, or tool, or "Owned"... are the usual tactics of the likes of you.

minusonebit

Just as every good citizen should. This is not taking the law into one's own hands, thats just being a snitch. And while that word normally has negative connotation, in this case its a good thing.

Remember, SPLC is another liberal group. Tolerance. Everything must be fair. Affirmative action. Everyone is equal. Everyone is good. Blah, blah, blah.

Liberals are really the same as communists. They believe that everyone, just because they were born, is entitled to wealth, food, a house, etc. I don?t. I still believe in natural selection. The kid who swallows too many marbles doesn?t grow up to have kids of his own. I also believe that people have the right to earn what they keep and keep what they earn. You don?t have the right to make society protect you from yourself or deliver to you your life on a silver platter. And that?s the problem I have with the latest development in the illegal immigration issue.

Everyone is not good. Ted Bundy was not a good person. He was not equal to me. Life is not fair. People cut me off every day as I drive down the road. Its not fair, but I have learned to cope. I don?t believe that an international treaty is necessary to correct the grave injustice that has been perpetrated upon me.

Affirmative action is something the liberals cooked up for god knows what reason. Rather than promote a culture that hires the best man or woman for the job, they wanted to hire blacks OVER whites, in essence making Caucasians the new "n1ggers". That?s not equality, that?s reverse racism.

And now the liberals - the people who have given us the other fine social solutions detailed above - are at work on the illegal immigrant issue. Saying the same old shit. The same poor me songs. They just want to be good Americans, they came here for the right reasons and on and on and on.

We have heard all this shit before. Isn?t it time to let someone decide this issue based on facts and common sense for a change? Or, god forbid, lets think about what?s best for OUR country for once. We don?t really bother with that anymore, since we?re too busy playing peacemaker.

Normally liberals the GOP are at odds. But this time, they have both found that illegals give them something they want. The rich people who support the GOP need their offices cleaned and their fields picked with cheap illegal labor and the liberals always want to help make sure everyone is provided for fiscal responsibility be damned. That?s what makes this such a dangerous issue. The GOP and the liberals both have something to gain from allowing these people to crawl in the middle of the night. Not to mention the votes issue, both parties are now courting these illegal voters (voting is supposed to be for citizens only, remember).

stickyfingerz

KRL me thinks you and I think alot alike on many subjects.

escorpio

How is posting links trying to take credit? Anyone can see it's a link, not my composition. I post links to information so the SIMPLETONS that wish to reduce this issue to "it's illegal, that's all I need to know" can take a look at the big picture.

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Kevin - The PNN

Go FUCK Yourself

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Kevin - The PNN

My family gave their lives for this County, not yours. Get the fuck out of my Country.

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escorpio

What the fuck do you know about my family , you shit talking punk ass motherfucker?

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aico

"In a series of raids that set a single-day record for workplace enforcement arrests, immigration officials announced Thursday that they took 1,187 illegal immigrants into custody at wood products plants in 26 states and charged seven company managers with crimes that carry long prison terms"

1,187 Beaners that will be back in two weeks, & 7 Americans that will be spending the next 10 years in prison.. seems fair.

escorpio

Sounds good to me.

Those 1,187 "beaners" (showing your true colors, buddy) wouldn't have been there if it wasn't for those 7 Americans, now would they? Don't you think there should be penalties for hiring illegals?

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aico

ya, I am sure those Beaners answered an advertisement in the Mexican paper put there by those companies telling the to come over illegally and apply for the job... riiiight

Is Beaner a bad word? I just recently learned it from watching Mind of Mencia on Comedy Central, he calls Mexicans (and himself) Beaners... I guess cuz they eat a lot of beans?

Are you a Beaner? I'm a Cracker. Cracker ass cracker to be exact.

escorpio

You didn't answer my question about penalties for people that hire illegals.

Yes, beaner is a derogatory term for Mexican.

No, I am not a "beaner."

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aico

yes I think there should be penalties, and wouldn't you know it, there ARE penalties, imagine that...

The thing that there is NOT a penalty for it being an illegal... that is where the unfairness lies.

escorpio

The penalty is deportation.

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aico

Give me a break, that amounts to a tiny slap on the wrist, they are back over here in a matter of hours. Meanwhile it costs us, the taxpayers money to deport them, money to keep the Americans in jail.

I say kick them all out... build a fucking wall, and be done with it. The ONLY people the wall will hurt is those who are trying to get in illegally. I am also more than sure they will find other ways in... but it's a start.

escorpio

Lack of a wall is not the cause of the problem. A wall is not the solution. Making it easier for people to come here legally is the solution.

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aico

Didn't seem to be a problem for the close to a million people who did it last year... It's hard for a reason, and the reason is that you really have to want it to work that hard for it... they old quote "if it were easy, everyone would do it" comes into play.

escorpio

People in desperate poverty do not have the funds or time to go through the current process.
What makes you think "everyone would do it" if it were easier? Not everyone in Mexico is poor and has a desire to come here to work, but for some it is necessary to their survival.

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aico

Welcome to life, I can't afford a Ferarri, so you know what, I don't have one... that's the way it is, should Ferarris be cheaper for people who make less than those who can afford them at full price?

There's poor people ALL OVER the world, Thailand, Philippines, South America, Russia, Vietnam, Africa... but it's the Mexicans, who seem to think they should get special treatment?? Give me a fucking break, my heart bleeds for them. Our fucking War veterans, people who fought to make this country what it is, sleep in cardboard boxes and freeze to death, but Mexicans, hey, we should take care of them or else they won't survive... boo fucking hoo.

escorpio

Typical American pig. Trying to compare his inability to by a Ferrari to the inability to buy food.

Tell you what, why don't you come and visit me. I'll take you to a poor colonia and you can tell a hungry mother and child all about your "bleeding heart" and "boo fucking hoo." We'll see how you do when it's not just an abstraction to you but a cold hard reality.

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seven

well come to think about it making it easier would make it easier for chinese too not just mexicans otherwise, it'd be discrimination and then 1 billion chinese will move in here turning USA into USC United States Of China lol. Nawh, I'll have to support legalizing the existing illegals and a stricter border security so no more can get in. Mexican govt has to do something about their own people instead of blaming US for stricter border security. There are 100s of other 3rd world countries in the world who are making it thru the day without being able to move to USA or other developed countries so will Mexicans I'm sure. While obviously stricter borders will not stop everybody from sneaking in it will however, reduce the flow of illegals This is a complex issue ofcourse so please don't mind cause I change my mind about this

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leggs

So what do you have to say about the 1 billion chineese that will soon put almost every american car company out of business with their $29.99 full sized luxuary cars?

Do you think after they destroy the american economy that American's will be sneaking into china?

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seven

If America ever becomes a 3rd world nation I bet you any money we sure will sneak into other countries but that's not gonna happen anytime soon. Will take too long before Bush and his offsprings in the future to drain out all the wealth the country has atleast not in this Bush Jr.'s lifetime it's not gonna happen but maybe his next generation will complete that mission lol.

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