I am so sick of what is going on in Israel - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

bhutocracy · 03-02-2002, 05:56 AM

fucking baldwins... dirty bastards...

bhutocracy · 03-02-2002, 05:58 AM

"2001
The death toll mounts inexorably. By the end of the year more than 1000 are dead, the overwhelming majority of them Palestinians. Successive US attempts to secure a ceasefire, initiated by Sen George Mitchell and CIA director George Tenet, come to nothing. America's new president, George Bush, endorses the idea of a Palestinian state, but cools towards Yasser Arafat in the wake of the September 11 atrocities in New York and Washington. Israel, now led by Ariel Sharon, mounts ferocious assaults on the Palestinian territories, and describes Arafat as an "irrelevance"."

from the guardian in relation to leadership issues.. israel doesn't give a fuck about arafat anymore, although they are redecorating his house for him..

drumsicle · 03-02-2002, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bhutocracy
"2001
The death toll mounts inexorably. By the end of the year more than 1000 are dead, the overwhelming majority of them Palestinians. Successive US attempts to secure a ceasefire, initiated by Sen George Mitchell and CIA director George Tenet, come to nothing. America's new president, George Bush, endorses the idea of a Palestinian state, but cools towards Yasser Arafat in the wake of the September 11 atrocities in New York and Washington. Israel, now led by Ariel Sharon, mounts ferocious assaults on the Palestinian territories, and describes Arafat as an "irrelevance"."

from the guardian in relation to leadership issues.. israel doesn't give a fuck about arafat anymore, although they are redecorating his house for him..

The Guardian, now there's a fine source.

bhutocracy · 03-02-2002, 06:04 AM

http://www.smh.com.au/news/0203/02/world/world3.html

"Washington is setting the stage for new Gulf War
The US is embarking on a new chapter in its "war on terror", and Saddam Hussein is in its sights. International Editor Hamish McDonald looks at how the campaign will unfold, and its risks.

Saddam Hussein has just under a year left in power, max, if the gathering consensus among Western military experts about the Bush Administration's thinking is right.

Twelve years of foxing the United Nations arms inspection regimes is enough for the Americans, says one such expert, John Chipman, director of the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.

"It's now a given in Washington that as soon as there is a military strategy worked out and a diplomatic pretext, the United States will use military force in Iraq," Chipman says, adding: "The purpose of any military operation against Iraq this time around would be clear and unambiguous. It would be the decapitation of Saddam Hussein."

However, the campaign carries some truly scary risks. Rather than wait for the inevitable, a cornered Saddam could lash out with pre-emptive strikes using any remaining stocks of biological or chemical weapons, either against massing US forces, or against Israel."

jewish homeland or not, i'd be taking a little holiday to fiji if i were a resident

bhutocracy · 03-02-2002, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by drumsicle

The Guardian, now there's a fine source.

heheh it's left wing bias is well known though.. i didn't hide it..

drumsicle · 03-02-2002, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bhutocracy

heheh it's left wing bias is well known though.. i didn't hide it..

Now I must

bhutocracy · 03-02-2002, 06:13 AM

tell me about it... man. i should have been doing work for the last 6 hours... *sigh*.. have to catch up on sunday..... bleh.. 'night

bhutocracy · 03-02-2002, 06:16 AM

oh hey one more article... it's stuff like this that makes me think it's not all palestinian's fault.. and when i say so im immediately supporting suicide bombers

"Jewish vigilantes unrepentant as baby is buried in Hebron

A Palestinian infant is the latest victim of a series of tit-for-tat killings in Hebron

Special report: Israel and the Middle East

Suzanne Goldenberg
Sunday July 22, 2001
The Observer

Within the Jewish fortress that occupies the heart of the old city of Hebron, no tears were shed for the newly buried baby, Diya Tmeizi, killed by Israeli vigilantes at the age of three months.
'When it comes to the Arabs, everything that happens to them today is their own fault,' said David Wilder, spokesman for the Jewish settlement of Hebron. 'They started shooting at us, and Israel's reactions to date have been at best minimal.'

The Jews who choose to live here are among the most extreme settlers in the illegal outposts of the West Bank and Gaza: 70 Orthodox Jewish families living in a world of high walls, guns and bulletproof glass, and insulated still further from the outside world by a constant curfew on their 120,000 Palestinian neighbours.

The lanes outside the fortress are deserted - bar the patrol Jeeps of the Israeli army - and the shops are boarded up.

The US State Department branded Thursday night's killing of three Palestinians in a roadside ambush by Jewish extremists a 'barbaric' act of 'unconscionable vigilantism'. The mainstream settlers' movement called it a 'loathsome' attack. But, caught up in the strangeness of their own existence, the Jewish settlers of Hebron are impervious to world opinion.

The killing was claimed by the Committee for Road Safety, an offshoot of the virulently racist Kach organisation. Founded by the US-born rabbi, Meir Kahane, Kach calls for the expulsion of all Arabs from the Holy Land. Kach was outlawed by Israel in the 1980s; Kahane was killed by an Egyptian assailant in New York in 1990.

His son, and successor, was shot dead by Palestinian militiamen as he drove his family through the West Bank last December.

For most Israelis, Kach and its followers are objects of disgust; an offence to Jewish morality. They see it differently in Hebron. Kach suffers from an unfortunate 'stigma', Wilder argues.

'I do not classify Kach with the Red Brigades or the IRA or any other organisation which went out as part of its philosophy to go out and kill people,' he said. 'A lot of people today look back on what Kahane said, and they say Kahane was right.'

Key figures of the movement, which calls for the expulsion of Palestinians from the Holy Land, live in the Jewish settlement of Hebron or the nearby settlement of Kiryat Arba. In 1994 a local Jewish doctor shot dead 29 men at prayer in a Hebron mosque.

And so it was almost inevitable that the first victims of Jewish vigilantes should have been killed in the villages surrounding Hebron. Diya was born barely eight miles from here, on 5 April, the product of more than a decade of fertility treatments.

A few days before his birth, the Jewish settlers of Hebron buried an infant of their own: Shalhavet Pass, aged 10 months, who was shot dead by a Palestinian sniper at the entrance to the settlement.

Ever since, the people of Hebron have been demanding that Israel's Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, reoccupy parts of Hebron awarded to Palestinian control in 1997. They are infuriated by his refusal to do so - especially since the hardline Sharon has been the champion of Jewish settlers for decades.

That, to Wilder's mind, explains the murder of Diya and two adult Palestinian men, and the rampages through the surrounding Palestinian market by the Jewish settlers of Hebron that have become a routine response to the gunfire from Palestinian militias during the last two months.

'The settlers used to drive by and throw stones. Now it is different. They have become really severe,' said Zarifeh Jabari, a middle-aged Pales tinian woman living along the road to the Hebron enclave. 'It's very scary.'

Last week Jewish settlers rampaged down Ms Jabari's street and set fire to her son's car. 'I tried to stop them and one of the settlers grabbed me and kept banging my head against the wall of the garage.'

Wilder does not appear shocked. 'When people feel abandoned and their lives are at stake, it's a natural reaction. It is the same here when people are shot at from the hills and the army does not shoot back, then some people are going to take up guns.'

Israeli security officials had been warning of that danger for weeks. The chief of Israel's internal intelligence agency, Shin Bet, reported a few days before the shooting that it had evidence of a cell of armed Jewish extremists led by Kach members.

The group had carried out at least three similar attacks, including one last month which killed a Palestinian lorry driver, and was claimed by a group called the Shalhevet-Gilad Brigade, after the Hebron infant.

'Revenge is holy,' a statement from the group said. 'It should be up to the government to do it, but unfortunately the government does not care about the murder of Jews - there are people whose patience has run out.'

The security chief, Avi Dichter, told a committee of the Knesset, Israel's parliament, that the cells had not yet reached the levels of organisation of the so-called Jewish underground of the early 1980s, which tried to assassinate Palestinian mayors and plotted to blow up the Dome of the Rock.

A day before a car belonging to a Kach activist, Noam Federman, blew up in Kiryat Arba. Security officials said they believed the explosives belonged to Federman.

However, Baruch Marzel, a Kach activist from Hebron who has called for the arming of every single settler, was evasive on Friday night when Israeli television asked him about a new underground. 'In light of the government's failure to act, there is a vacuum, and into it individuals are drawn,' he said.

Israeli and Palestinian human rights organisations have warned of that danger for months. In a report last March, the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring group said seven Palestinians had been killed by Jewish settlers since the start of the intifada last autumn.

About a dozen were beaten, and there were scores of attacks against property, especially the uprooting of olive trees.

Human rights organisations say settler violence runs much deeper than a few vigilantes. The settlers are armed and trained by the Israeli army and have always received lenient treatment from the courts.

The Israeli human rights organisation, B'Tselem, says 119 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli civilians in the occupied territories; there have been only 16 convictions.

In Hebron yesterday 5,000 people attended the funeral of Rajai Abu Rajab, killed when an explosion flattened an office of Yasser Arafat's Fatah party.

Gunmen fired in the air and chanted calls for revenge as his body was carried through the streets. Palestinians say the bomb was an Israeli assassination attempt, but Israelis say it was a Palestinian bomb that prematurely exploded. "

bhutocracy · 03-02-2002, 06:19 AM

puh-lease note that the article rightly deplores the action of both sides.. and talks about how BOTH sides shot babies... and is only referring to extremists...

mika · 03-02-2002, 06:27 AM

bhutocracy is that Smegma a friend of yours who needs a DVD player?

pr0view · 03-02-2002, 06:38 AM

i summon the god of the flaming threads, the demon who is always right, the living nightmare of all cheaters...

12CLICKS 12CLICKS 12CLICKS 12CLICKS 12CLICKS

where are thou?

YouMorons · 03-02-2002, 06:43 AM

what would you do if someone forced their way in your house and started telling you what to do, shoot them wont you? And it would be called trespassing and you would get off. We support Israel because politicians know it would be hell because Jews control most of the media in the US. Even Nixon knew about that if you listen to his new tapes that were released to the press. I mean compare it to 1000 who lost lives in the Palestinians side to 270 on the isleali side. over 250 on the Palestinians side were children, how come we don't value there lives? Or condemn when that happens? Us politicians basically are catering to the needs of Israel (hey who can blame them they needs the votes, its OK if lives are lost it politics after all). We support Israel blindly. Maybe Palestinians got the hint and are trying to group like Hizbollah, who succeed in driving Israel out because of the casualties they suffered. it was their version of Vietnam.

"Syrian and Iranian-backed Hizbollah waged a war of attrition that helped end Israel's 22-year occupation of south Lebanon in May 2000 and which Israel believes has inspired the Palestinians in their uprising against Israeli occupation. "
source: World - Reuters

bhutocracy · 03-02-2002, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mika
bhutocracy is that Smegma a friend of yours who needs a DVD player?

LOL... also WHY ARENT I ASLEEP YET?

'night

falafel · 03-02-2002, 07:52 AM

Hi,

I am an Israeli citizen from Ramat Gan, Israel.
Well, how many suicide bombings were there yet ?
10 ? 20 ? 50 ?

Did it change the Palestinians? lives ? did it bring them a state ? did they improve their lives ? did they become rich ? happy ?
Did they gain anything beside the contempt of the enlightened world and the hate of the Israeli people ?

The Palestinians had a chance to get an independent state in 97% of the territory with no settlements & no settlers (in Camp David 2000 talks).
What was their response to this peace offer ?
The Intifada (terror war).

Well, it looks like the Palestinians suffer from 2 very severe problems: they?re too greedy and they elected the wrong leader (and I didn't find the "right one" in their camp yet - beside Serri Nusseiba perhaps.

The war between them and us is still alive and kicking but they have already totally lost the moral war.
Anybody who sends a person into a pizzeria, a discotheque or a crowded street, to be mingled with innocent teenagers, women, children, babies and senior citizens and blow them up is not a freedom fighter nor an ideological warrior.
He is a plain cold blooded terrorist and the world understands it by now.

However, the most disgraceful thing is that all the suicide attacks are being carried out for one central motive: sexual benefits.
The bombers are not killing themselves "for Palestine", "for freedom" or "for justice".
They're doing it just in order to "get some"...

They are being brainwashed that 72 virgins are waiting for them in sexy lingerie with lotions & creams in there hands.
The Palestinian "national heroes" are nothing more than poor, sexual frustrated, sex hungry people who were exploited by others.
And if this is their big motive for murdering others - I'd say that their political struggle is in a big problem.

BukWeeD · 03-02-2002, 08:12 AM

Well, as far as I am concerned the blame goes directly to the Palestinian leadership and Arafat himself.
The man IS and WAS a trigger happy terrorist during his whole life. The Americans and Israelis had made a huge mistake thinking that by offering him peace through the establishment of a Palestinian state would change his evil ways...
NO !, he said.
So after he had received control over most of the West Bank towns and Gaza, plus huge amounts of ammunition (given by Israel) intended to contain the extremist groups, he simply joined them.
If you ask me, it was all planned, a trojan horse !

The U.S is RIGHT for supporting Israel in it's fight against terrorism. The way I see it Israel is only acting upon basic self defence.

Israel is a very small country but it's the only place on earth for Jews to call their own. In only 50 years they have built a society based on freedom and democracy which is more than I can say for any Arab state...

B.

ronenjeru · 03-02-2002, 08:22 AM

the problem with those people who r against BOTH sides is that both sides usually become one and it sums up in Israel.

All those anti-semitic threads covered in anti-israeli claims are unequivocally pro-terrorist.

All those pro-palestinians are terror-supporters and should be dealt with likewise. They should be hunt down and crashed.

Their mentality is of death. I'm just waiting for the next terror attack against a European target, I hate the Europeans with their support to the Arabs, let's see them dealing with suicide attacks every-day.

Their denial of the Jewish homeland matches the arabs antisemitic propaganda.

The only solution is to make them their own state - - -

IN JORDAN.

Yeasser Arafat!!!

ronenjeru · 03-02-2002, 08:31 AM

I really think we (the Israelis) should get rid of this obstacle called the media - especially the Arab, BBC,Reuters teams.

If we'd exactly what the PA does we would get some criticism, but we could monitor those reports we dont like.

Actually it's a great idea, now that I think about it. We should target their offices exactly like the PA does. Wow why didnt I think about it earlier?

Yeasser Arafat!!!

Rose · 03-02-2002, 08:36 AM

More power to Israel

Clubber · 03-02-2002, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bhutocracy
puh-lease.. it's not just self-defence... you HAVE to know that.. why do you think they don't want peace-keeping troops there?

In 1973 the UN peace keeping force who was supposed to keep the borders of Israel with Egypt just went home without telling any body.

And last year the UN peace keeping force was watching 3 Israeli soldiers kidnapped by Hizballah and didn't do any thing.

Clubber · 03-02-2002, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bhutocracy
do i have to name the militant jewish organisations?
whose prime minister was murdered by one of it's own for wanting peace?

This is totaly not true.

Please name the jewish organisations.

tpr2k · 03-02-2002, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bhutocracy
do i have to name the militant jewish organisations?
whose prime minister was murdered by one of it's own for wanting peace?

name the "jewish" organisations (as you call them) and also name the number of terrorst acts they took against Palestinian civilians ... i think that in the entire Intifada...(that is 18 months of fighting between the sides) the number of acts by israeli (jewish organisations) can be counted on five fingers (or less) while the acts, that were taken by palestinian militants/terrorists/organisations is more than 1000 in these 18 months!

YouMorons · 03-02-2002, 10:34 AM

Israel sponsors state terrorism.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/He...or_Herman.html

http://www.abbc.com/historia/zionism/

http://menj.tripod.com/Pejuang_Bangs..._terrorism.htm

what comes around goes around sooner or later.

tpr2k · 03-02-2002, 10:35 AM

for those of you who are not updated...

the Palestinians blew a car in Jerusalem

this is one of their peace-keeping acts... and their way of fighting terror!... to blow up a car in order to kill Israelis!

damn the Palestinians!

kill arafat!

metoo · 03-02-2002, 10:40 AM

A (another) car bomb with an islamic palestinian suicide bomber just exploded is Israel.

many injured and dead. most young. simple, unarmed civilians.

Islam....
Palestinians....

SOON IN THE THEATER NEAR YOU!

Smegma · 03-02-2002, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tpr2k
for those of you who are not updated...

the Palestinians blew a car in Jerusalem

this is one of their peace-keeping acts... and their way of fighting terror!... to blow up a car in order to kill Israelis!

damn the Palestinians!

kill arafat!

And Israel?s tit-for-tat response will be to roll in the tanks, fire a few missiles at some kids, plant a few claymores on school grounds.

Why don't you contribute some insightful information regarding the BIG picture. We can go on all day about each sides response to an attack.

Smegma · 03-02-2002, 10:50 AM

Anytime someone brings up politics and religion, the shit will surely get stirred.

I read every post here. Most everyone here has made a good point for either side.

I have been thinking a lot about what was said here, I did some research last night so I could make some valid points? but yesterday, I was talking to KC on the phone, and he said something to me I haven?t been able to shake.

?What is the difference between what the Palestinians are doing to the Israelis and what the al-Qaida did to us on September 11th?

Besides body count, I couldn?t think of a good response without nullifying my past points.

So tell me? what is the difference?

YouMorons · 03-02-2002, 11:00 AM

I heard they blew up a car on the news, But why not mention for the last 2 days Israel has killed 30 people(many civilian, France has called it war crimes and so has the UN, The US just cautioned restraint) on the Palestinian side, they are no match for the tanks ,so they get so frustrated they find the only way they can retaliate. we give them advanced weapons and over billions a year to use that buy to but weapons from us just cause the US gov't is controlled by the jewish state.

"France, in some of the toughest foreign criticism of the raids, called them "acts of war" and echoed a call from United Nations (news - web sites) Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites) for an immediate pullout.

U.N. human rights chief Mary Robinson condemned the Israeli incursion as a violation of international humanitarian law.

The United States urged Israel on Thursday to exercise restraint but stopped short of calling for a withdrawal."

-World - Reuters

I don't think anyone in their position would sit and do nothing.

On a different note I have noticed freedom of speech going down the drain in the US. Especially if you say something about Israel, you can be racist with blacks and other nations and get away, God forbid Israel you are hammered.

Smegma · 03-02-2002, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by YouMorons

On a different note I have noticed freedom of speech going down the drain in the US. Especially if you say something about Israel, you can be racist with blacks and other nations and get away, God forbid Israel you are hammered.

Yeah.. I have noticed that to.

I am Catholic. I have been to Israel several times, and was in Jerusalem when the U.S.S Cole was bombed. I have to say that Jerusalem was one of the most beautiful places I have ever visited.

My criticism is not with Jews or the people of Israel.. it is with the government of both sides who can't seem to work out a lasting peace accord.

I put the ode on Israel to fix this because they are militarily superior, but seem to lack simple foresight to realize that tit-for-tat responses only lead to more violence and escalation. How can we arm such a narrow-minded government?

metoo · 03-02-2002, 11:17 AM

well...

Israel entered the camps in order to kill terrorists in them.
Many terrorists were killed, a factory of missiles was destroyed, 15 missiles captured.
unfortunatly, some civilians were killed too (you already know why, here's a reminder...)

a suicide bomb exloped in a center of a town, he terrorist tried to kill AS MANY CIVILLIANS AS POSSIBLE, (unfortunatly, did I mention?)

as to france, next decade, when muslims will rule their country, they'll understand, but it will be too late for them.
why do you take france as a reference agains israel, they are well known in their pro-palestinian (aka the underdog) attitude.

FATPad · 03-02-2002, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Smegma

Yeah.. I have noticed that to.

I am Catholic. I have been to Israel several times, and was in Jerusalem when the U.S.S Cole was bombed. I have to say that Jerusalem was one of the most beautiful places I have ever visited.

My criticism is not with Jews or the people of Israel.. it is with the government of both sides who can't seem to work out a lasting peace accord.

I put the ode on Israel to fix this because they are militarily superior, but seem to lack simple foresight to realize that tit-for-tat responses only lead to more violence and escalation. How can we arm such a narrow-minded government?

So because they're better armed, they have to do anything and everything for peace?

Israel offered peace a couple of years ago. They were willing to make huge concessions to the Palestinians. The Palestinians said no, walked away, and went back to bombing market places.

The Palestinians don't want peace. They don't want land or a country or anything. They want to be victims forever and continue killing Jews all in the name of being oppressed, even though Israel offered to give Palestine most of the things they said they wanted.

YouMorons · 03-02-2002, 11:28 AM

France can wipe Israel off the map, and are you implying all muslims want to blow up everyone? Stereotype much?

In the conversation, Graham expressed disdain for what he saw as Jewish domination of the media.

"This stranglehold has got to be broken or this country's going down the drain," Graham said, agreeing with Nixon's own comments earlier in the conversation.

"You believe that?" Nixon says in response.

"Yes, sir," says Graham.

"Oh boy. So do I," Nixon agrees, then says: "I can't ever say that but I believe it."

"No, but if you get elected a second time, then we might be able to do something," Graham says, reassuring the president.

maybe the media is getting to many of you?

Israel basically starves millions of people to protect there illegal settlement's which contain a few hundred in each places, notice the word illegal.

Why do you never see US politicians condemn civilian deaths of Palestinians but Israelis, boy I am starting to believe Nixon had a point!

Zebra · 03-02-2002, 11:32 AM

You know what really irks me? I just saw this on a chuch sign near my house:

No God - No Peace
Know God - Know Peace

Doesn't look like knowing God did jack shit for the people in Israel, Palestine, Ireland, Bosnia, Croatia, India, or any other country where people have died in the name of religion.

BukWeeD · 03-02-2002, 11:35 AM

YouMorons,

just thought you should know that the majority of Palestinians that were killed in the refugee camps during the past couple of days (28 of them) were NOT as innocent as you think...
They were all armed to their teeth (Hammas, Fatah) group members.
An explosives and rocket factory was descovered and destroyed, and a large amount of ammunition was confiscated.

France is a pro-Arab country so there's nothing else to expect from them, Jewish prayer houses get burnt to the ground in France and nobody does a fuckin thing about it, hell nobody even condemned it !

U.N. human rights activists are always very critical about Israel's actions but when Palestinians blow themselves up killing Israelis those so called "human rights" political assholes don't say a word...why ???, because there are about 50 Moslem entities in the U.N and only a single Jewish one. Good old Mr. Cofee Annan wants to continue his current job, now doesn't he ???

B.

YouMorons · 03-02-2002, 11:47 AM

BukWeeD you are actually wrong most escaped to a different camps. A few (Hammas, islamic jihad) and civilians, mostly policeman (mostly policeman are the one who were killed) were killed. The U. N is an international body it consists of over 180 countries, It is funny how we the U.S see only Israel as doing all the right things and the rest don't? how the rest want peace keepers but Israel doesn't? you bet Israel doesn't you have to realize first that most right wing Israelis want to expand Israel to make it bigger, U.N peace keeping troops would make that hard and if the U.S didn't veto the troops the Jewish lobby and media would hamper them. I have no doubt part of the reason Clinton waited until he's second term to work towards a middle east solution is because he didn't care much then, same as why Nixon was waiting for he's second term, you cant be reelected. We even state in the tenet report the Jewish settlements are not legal, Yet they keep on expanding? Wonder why they don't listen to us, why do pay them billions a year, which is part of my tax money.

metoo · 03-02-2002, 12:15 PM

this baby was killed usung a telescopic lens. the palestinian terrorist aimed to her head.

palestinian terrorist attack on a SCHOOL BUS

bombing another city bye palestinian terrorists

these kinds just went to a DISCO CLUB. more than 18 killed by palestinian terrorists.

SOON IN THE THEATER NEAR YOU!

BukWeeD · 03-02-2002, 12:52 PM

Those so called "Policemen" are in fact members of Fatah movement who are the main armed Palestinian militia group. They have openly claimed responsibility for dozens of terrorist attacks against Israelis in the past couple of months.

As for the multinational peace keeping force, which basically consists of U.N troops, it's clear that they'll be taking their orders from the U.N itself, thus preventing Israel from acting against Palestinian terror cells inside the PA while providing safe-haven for the terrorists so they can continue doing what they want.
Do you really think that a U.N will defend Israel and fight-off the terror ???
How will they prevent terrorists from entering Israel if the I.D.F has trouble doing so ???
We have already seen the nature of these "peace keeping" troops in Southern Lebanon who cooperated with Hizbullah in the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. Those troops saw the hole thing, hell they even filmed it ! but did nothing to stop it !!

Israel does NOT want to expand itself, the settlers may wish to do so but they are a minority. If Arafat had accepted the offers made by Israel during the Oslo peace talks the settlements would have been a piece of history by now...

By the way, the Fatah movement has just claimed responsibility for the suicide bombing in Jerusalem killing 8 people ( 2 babies ) and injuring more than 40 people, 5 of them are in critical condition, ALL INNOCENT PEOPLE KILLED OUTSIDE A PRAYER HOUSE ...."Policemen" you say.....!!??

B.

YouMorons · 03-02-2002, 01:09 PM

BukWeeD hmm since when attacking soliders is not ok when you at war? answer that? Hizbullah attacked the soliders.

Why not call ourselves Israel? And not the United States of America? after all we are controlled by a foreign power who lobbies our government for their interest and not the American interest.

Israel sponsors state terrorism.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/He...or_Herman.html

http://www.abbc.com/http://menj.trip...m.htm/zionism/

http://www.abbc.com/historia/zionism/

"In 1967, Israel purposefully attacked with unmarked jet fighters and torpedo boats, the U.S.S. Liberty, an American Navy vessel of the Sinai Peninsula, even machine gunning the deployed life rafts of the ship. The attack killed 31 American servicemen and wounded over 170. "

"The attack on the Liberty was nothing short of a vicious act of war against the United States by Israel. In spite of the fact that U.S. Secretary of State Dean Rusk and navy chief Admiral Moorer said that the attack on the USS Liberty by Israel was deliberate. The all-powerful Zionist Lobby prevented a formal Congressional investigation. "

why not call purselfs iseral? and not he united states of america?

and you say to this?

America's one-sided policy foreign policy can be illustrated by the different treatment afforded Israel and Iraq:

Iraq invaded Kuwait. Israel invaded Lebanon.
Perhaps 3000 Kuwait civilians died in the initial war with Iraq. 40,000 Lebanese died from the time of the invasion through the occupation.
Iraq disobeyed UN resolutions to leave Kuwait. Israel disobeyed UN resolutions to leave Lebanon. (for 18 years)
Iraq broke international conventions on chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. Yet Israel is a far greater offender, having one of the greatest stores of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons in the world
Iraq refused UN inspections. Israel has always refused UN inspection.
For these violations we bombed Iraq. In response to Israel's crimes, America just continued to send more billions of dollars.

BukWeeD · 03-02-2002, 02:23 PM

The soldiers were kidnapped AFTER Israel had already evacuated South Lebanon, there was no state of war, the soldiers were posted there in order to secure the borders and were kinnapped.
a U.N force was present at the incident, the troops filmed the whole thing but did nothing to stop it. One of those U.N troops later on said that Hizbullah agents were providing them with fresh supplies of Lebanese hookers and alchohol.
The U.N had oficially refused to admit the tape had existed for quite a long while till a copy somehow found it's way to the hands of Israeli intelligence, no use hiding it anymore....bad PR you know....

Perhaps you should be aware that Israel is responsible for providing a whole lot of intelligence which led to the capture of many of Bin Laden's men around the world, thus saving countless American lives, off the record and the media off-course...

Listen, YouMorons, it's clear that you hold an anti-Israeli and an Anti-Jewish perspective. That's your thing....keep doing so if it makes you feel better but do consider learning the facts before using your hate as motive.

Do you really know why Israel had invaded Southern Lebanon ?
Well, i'll tell ya why, because Hizbullah was constantly firing rockets towards northern Israeli towns, people there used to spend more time inside the shelters than outside, the invasion was meant to secure northern Israel from rockets and terrorists.

You probably keep forgetting how small Israel is, take another look at the map posted in one of the previous pages and compare it to the HUGE sizes of all the other Arab counries in the region. Don't you think that a people who has suffered 6 Million deaths by the Nazis on the same basis of hate that you are currently motivating should have their own small piece of land to call their own ?
Read the Bible and you'll find solid historical proof of the hard linkage between the Jewish people and the land of Israel and Jerusalem.

B.

ronenjeru · 03-02-2002, 03:36 PM

I think that this "you moron" guy is an unstable, dillusioned, ignorant palestinian.

If people here dont know history then they should not be allowed to write their views. It's exhausting to read stupid things and having to respond.

And another thing Israelis are always right and the Palestinians are always wrong. It's just like that, and if u dont like it u can go drink the waters of the dead sea.

The Palestinians are not innocent especially those who were killed in the camps, trying to make it look like they were innocent civilians wont work- they were taped!

About that bigoted no-good antisemitic Mery Robinson, I think she's got her job by licking some Arab asses. She's pro-palestinian and should be dealt with like one - Israel should react also to the French antisemitical remarks and severe ties with those Frogs.

Yamut Arafat, umiyad!!!

YouMorons · 03-02-2002, 05:04 PM

ronenjeru you must be from Israel enough said, your remarks are ignored. Im an American you dumb shit, you highways are paid for by my tax dollars you ignorant moron.

You may need to read history also.

bhutocracy · 03-02-2002, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clubber

This is totaly not true.

Please name the jewish organisations.

Eyal - fighting jewish organisation, the ones responsible for Rabin's death

Kach - Baruch Goldstein was a kach militant - the guy who killed 29 palestinians while they were praying in a mosque..
Kahane Lives - off shoot of above.
Betar/Tagar - jewish group responsible for acts of violence against holocaust revisionists kahane was a member of betar.
sikrikirn - taken the namesake of the older jewish Sicarites
Gush Emunim members have killed palestinians
JDL - a terrorist organisation formed in the US by kahane responsible for a large amount of terrorist activities.

not to mention any number of settler groups (which normal israeli's don't condone in the slightest)

bhutocracy · 03-02-2002, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ronenjeru

And another thing Israelis are always right and the Palestinians are always wrong. It's just like that, and if u dont like it u can go drink the waters of the dead sea.

*sigh* and i wonder why when you point out that jews aren't the only victims i get attacked lol.. talk about being ignorant and closed minded.. i hope that was a joke ronen.. or you're a 5 post troll or something...

Rose · 03-02-2002, 09:17 PM

ronenjeru you must be from Israel enough said, your remarks are ignored. Im an American you dumb shit, you highways are paid for by my tax dollars you ignorant moron.

You may need to read history also.
----------------------------------------------------
This is one BIG BS LOL
Hey you smart "American" I dont think that your tax dollars
paid for any highways in Israel.
You know Jews are rich even without your pennies

YouMorons · 03-02-2002, 10:21 PM

Is that why you dependent on us (the U.S) for billions of dollars a year? think again. Without us you are nothing.

Danny_C · 03-03-2002, 02:15 AM

Pictures of dead babies don't prove anything in this argument... that's just propaganda to make people sympathetic toward Israel. If you can explain to me the relevance, I'll take that back.

I believe I've read every post, and I have yet to see a person excuse terrorism, or the killing of innocent people. I haven't seen a person say that the Palestinians are justified in their actions. I haven't seen anybody say that killing innocent people is the right way for them to handle their problems.

What people are saying is that there ARE problems that can't just be ignored because they chose the wrong means of retaliation. You can't take an entire faction of people and leave them to the wolves just because some of them decided to organize and fight back the only way they know how... no matter how wrong that way might be.

Here's an analogy: When poor black people in our own country start rioting, rebelling, robbing convenience stores to feed their families, etc, we like to use those actions to condemn the entire black lower class. Of course, I wouldn't excuse the man who robs the bank to feed his family, but I'm also not going to ignore the fact that there are environmental factors that drove him to it... problems that need to be addressed - without which, these issues might not exist in the first place.

The same applies to the Palestinians. I doubt anybody here is excusing their actions. They're just saying that the Palestinians have a legitimate complaint that needs to be addressed. We can't overlook that problem by continuing to be best friends with Israel, or else we're only perpetuating it.

Personally, I'm against all forms of violence and dogma, including both religion and nationalism. If a person needs religion to give him or her morals, then that person has no morals. If a person with no morals gets his moral guidance from an ancient document written by a woman hater (as much of the bible was, for instance), then he might feel justified to hate women (as many do). The same pitfalls apply to nationalism. So when I see this argument degenerate into a question of which faction of people is more righteous, I can't even take it seriously anymore. Not one involved party can claim guiltlessness. Instead of pointing fingers, we need to get rid of our prejudice and start looking for an answer.

YouMorons · 03-03-2002, 08:13 AM

if someone fucked with my family i would be fucking pissed. This doesnt jusify it but, if someone did something to my family i'd may go fucking nuts.

----------
"The Brigades said they were avenging the deaths of Palestinians, some of them civilians, when Israeli forces raided the Balata and Jenin refugee camps Thursday and Friday in what they called a sweep for terrorists and explosives."

"Let me tell that dog Sharon that I will strike and I will avenge my families in the Balata refugee camp...(and) Jenin refugee camp, and on behalf of all the martyrs in Palestine," suicide bomber Mohammed Daraghma, 18, said in a last testament video that showed a backpack with protruding wires at his side.

source: A.P
---------------

YouMorons · 03-03-2002, 08:39 AM

Yet again, we see an amazing bias in the American news media. Look at this headline:

"Palestinian Attacks Kill 21 Israelis."

Horrific news, granted, and very newsworthy. But only YESTERDAY, when as many as 30 Palestinians were killed, including ten children under 18 years old and 2 babies (according to The Guardian newspaper, www.guardian.co.uk), the US headlines read:

"Israeli Raids Cloud Peace Initiative."

NOT: "Israeli Raids Kill 30 Palestinians."

Notice that the US media almost never assign blame to Israel for any killings. Palestinians casualities are rarely in the headlines while Israelis are "killed by Palestinians." In one example of particularly bad journalism, NPR's Israel correspondent Linda Gradstein reported a "day of relative calm" on a day when some 16 Palestinians were killed. The US media clearly assign more value to Israeli lives than to Palestinian. (for more on this issue, see the FAIR link below)

Also note that in this story, the Palestinian "celebrations" of this horrific violence are discussed, but the racist calls for "death to Arabs" chanted by Israelis in Jerusalem are notably not mentioned in the article. The BBC and the Independent (www.independent.co.uk) report that BOTH sides engaged in deplorable calls for more violence. Why did the US media ignore the Israeli racism?

Don't take my word for this. Check the following media watch groups for more on this issue:

FAIR (Fairness and Accuraccy in Reporting):
http://www.fair.org/

Institute for Public Accuracy
http://accuracy.org/

Media Monitors Network
http://www.mediamonitors.net/

And for a wider breadth of news coverage, get AWAY from US media. Try other sources, including the Israeli media (which is FAR less pro-Israel than the US media). For example:

Ha'aretz: www.haaretzdaily.com (liberal-leaning)
Jerusalem Post: www.jpost.com (conservative-leaning)

And try the European press:

http://news.bbc.co.uk
http://www.guardian.co.uk

ronenjeru · 03-03-2002, 11:21 AM

Rose "dear", your taxes paid the Palestinians, Egyptians and even Jordanians, and the taxes you say u give Israel are spent for US industry going to Israel and the beneficiaries are the Americans, believe me if it wasnt so beneficiary to u , then u wouldnt do that!!

And about a shitty little person like u, I'm quite sure u dont pay taxes at all, but just use this claim to bull us out.

I dont like u and I want u dead with all the other supporters of terror, and anti-semites. Burn Burn Burn U and your Swastikas!!!

Yamut Arafat umaher veyikaver yakhad im Nasser!!!!

ronenjeru · 03-03-2002, 11:40 AM

Sorry rose, I meant you morons, please forgive me.

Serge_Oprano · 03-03-2002, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ronenjeru

And about a shitty little person like u, I'm quite sure u dont pay taxes at all, but just use this claim to bull us out.

I dont like u and I want u dead with all the other supporters of terror, and anti-semites. Burn Burn Burn U and your Swastikas!!!

Yamut Arafat umaher veyikaver yakhad im Nasser!!!!

ditto!

03-02-2002, 06:19 AM	#159
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	puh-lease note that the article rightly deplores the action of both sides.. and talks about how BOTH sides shot babies... and is only referring to extremists... Last edited by bhutocracy; 03-02-2002 at 06:21 AM..

03-02-2002, 06:43 AM	#162
YouMorons Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 31	what would you do if someone forced their way in your house and started telling you what to do, shoot them wont you? And it would be called trespassing and you would get off. We support Israel because politicians know it would be hell because Jews control most of the media in the US. Even Nixon knew about that if you listen to his new tapes that were released to the press. I mean compare it to 1000 who lost lives in the Palestinians side to 270 on the isleali side. over 250 on the Palestinians side were children, how come we don't value there lives? Or condemn when that happens? Us politicians basically are catering to the needs of Israel (hey who can blame them they needs the votes, its OK if lives are lost it politics after all). We support Israel blindly. Maybe Palestinians got the hint and are trying to group like Hizbollah, who succeed in driving Israel out because of the casualties they suffered. it was their version of Vietnam. "Syrian and Iranian-backed Hizbollah waged a war of attrition that helped end Israel's 22-year occupation of south Lebanon in May 2000 and which Israel believes has inspired the Palestinians in their uprising against Israeli occupation. " source: World - Reuters __________________ Think before you talk, know the facts.

03-02-2002, 10:34 AM	#172
YouMorons Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 31	Israel sponsors state terrorism. http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/He...or_Herman.html http://www.abbc.com/historia/zionism/ http://menj.tripod.com/Pejuang_Bangs..._terrorism.htm what comes around goes around sooner or later. __________________ Think before you talk, know the facts.

03-02-2002, 11:00 AM	#177
YouMorons Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 31	I heard they blew up a car on the news, But why not mention for the last 2 days Israel has killed 30 people(many civilian, France has called it war crimes and so has the UN, The US just cautioned restraint) on the Palestinian side, they are no match for the tanks ,so they get so frustrated they find the only way they can retaliate. we give them advanced weapons and over billions a year to use that buy to but weapons from us just cause the US gov't is controlled by the jewish state. "France, in some of the toughest foreign criticism of the raids, called them "acts of war" and echoed a call from United Nations (news - web sites) Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites) for an immediate pullout. U.N. human rights chief Mary Robinson condemned the Israeli incursion as a violation of international humanitarian law. The United States urged Israel on Thursday to exercise restraint but stopped short of calling for a withdrawal." -World - Reuters I don't think anyone in their position would sit and do nothing. On a different note I have noticed freedom of speech going down the drain in the US. Especially if you say something about Israel, you can be racist with blacks and other nations and get away, God forbid Israel you are hammered. __________________ Think before you talk, know the facts.

03-02-2002, 11:28 AM	#181
YouMorons Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 31	France can wipe Israel off the map, and are you implying all muslims want to blow up everyone? Stereotype much? In the conversation, Graham expressed disdain for what he saw as Jewish domination of the media. "This stranglehold has got to be broken or this country's going down the drain," Graham said, agreeing with Nixon's own comments earlier in the conversation. "You believe that?" Nixon says in response. "Yes, sir," says Graham. "Oh boy. So do I," Nixon agrees, then says: "I can't ever say that but I believe it." "No, but if you get elected a second time, then we might be able to do something," Graham says, reassuring the president. maybe the media is getting to many of you? Israel basically starves millions of people to protect there illegal settlement's which contain a few hundred in each places, notice the word illegal. Why do you never see US politicians condemn civilian deaths of Palestinians but Israelis, boy I am starting to believe Nixon had a point! __________________ Think before you talk, know the facts.

03-02-2002, 05:56 AM	#151
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	fucking baldwins... dirty bastards...

03-02-2002, 05:58 AM	#152
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	"2001 The death toll mounts inexorably. By the end of the year more than 1000 are dead, the overwhelming majority of them Palestinians. Successive US attempts to secure a ceasefire, initiated by Sen George Mitchell and CIA director George Tenet, come to nothing. America's new president, George Bush, endorses the idea of a Palestinian state, but cools towards Yasser Arafat in the wake of the September 11 atrocities in New York and Washington. Israel, now led by Ariel Sharon, mounts ferocious assaults on the Palestinian territories, and describes Arafat as an "irrelevance"." from the guardian in relation to leadership issues.. israel doesn't give a fuck about arafat anymore, although they are redecorating his house for him..

03-02-2002, 06:04 AM	#154
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	http://www.smh.com.au/news/0203/02/world/world3.html "Washington is setting the stage for new Gulf War The US is embarking on a new chapter in its "war on terror", and Saddam Hussein is in its sights. International Editor Hamish McDonald looks at how the campaign will unfold, and its risks. Saddam Hussein has just under a year left in power, max, if the gathering consensus among Western military experts about the Bush Administration's thinking is right. Twelve years of foxing the United Nations arms inspection regimes is enough for the Americans, says one such expert, John Chipman, director of the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London. "It's now a given in Washington that as soon as there is a military strategy worked out and a diplomatic pretext, the United States will use military force in Iraq," Chipman says, adding: "The purpose of any military operation against Iraq this time around would be clear and unambiguous. It would be the decapitation of Saddam Hussein." However, the campaign carries some truly scary risks. Rather than wait for the inevitable, a cornered Saddam could lash out with pre-emptive strikes using any remaining stocks of biological or chemical weapons, either against massing US forces, or against Israel." jewish homeland or not, i'd be taking a little holiday to fiji if i were a resident

03-02-2002, 06:13 AM	#157
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	tell me about it... man. i should have been doing work for the last 6 hours... sigh.. have to catch up on sunday..... bleh.. 'night

03-02-2002, 06:16 AM	#158
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	oh hey one more article... it's stuff like this that makes me think it's not all palestinian's fault.. and when i say so im immediately supporting suicide bombers "Jewish vigilantes unrepentant as baby is buried in Hebron A Palestinian infant is the latest victim of a series of tit-for-tat killings in Hebron Special report: Israel and the Middle East Suzanne Goldenberg Sunday July 22, 2001 The Observer Within the Jewish fortress that occupies the heart of the old city of Hebron, no tears were shed for the newly buried baby, Diya Tmeizi, killed by Israeli vigilantes at the age of three months. 'When it comes to the Arabs, everything that happens to them today is their own fault,' said David Wilder, spokesman for the Jewish settlement of Hebron. 'They started shooting at us, and Israel's reactions to date have been at best minimal.' The Jews who choose to live here are among the most extreme settlers in the illegal outposts of the West Bank and Gaza: 70 Orthodox Jewish families living in a world of high walls, guns and bulletproof glass, and insulated still further from the outside world by a constant curfew on their 120,000 Palestinian neighbours. The lanes outside the fortress are deserted - bar the patrol Jeeps of the Israeli army - and the shops are boarded up. The US State Department branded Thursday night's killing of three Palestinians in a roadside ambush by Jewish extremists a 'barbaric' act of 'unconscionable vigilantism'. The mainstream settlers' movement called it a 'loathsome' attack. But, caught up in the strangeness of their own existence, the Jewish settlers of Hebron are impervious to world opinion. The killing was claimed by the Committee for Road Safety, an offshoot of the virulently racist Kach organisation. Founded by the US-born rabbi, Meir Kahane, Kach calls for the expulsion of all Arabs from the Holy Land. Kach was outlawed by Israel in the 1980s; Kahane was killed by an Egyptian assailant in New York in 1990. His son, and successor, was shot dead by Palestinian militiamen as he drove his family through the West Bank last December. For most Israelis, Kach and its followers are objects of disgust; an offence to Jewish morality. They see it differently in Hebron. Kach suffers from an unfortunate 'stigma', Wilder argues. 'I do not classify Kach with the Red Brigades or the IRA or any other organisation which went out as part of its philosophy to go out and kill people,' he said. 'A lot of people today look back on what Kahane said, and they say Kahane was right.' Key figures of the movement, which calls for the expulsion of Palestinians from the Holy Land, live in the Jewish settlement of Hebron or the nearby settlement of Kiryat Arba. In 1994 a local Jewish doctor shot dead 29 men at prayer in a Hebron mosque. And so it was almost inevitable that the first victims of Jewish vigilantes should have been killed in the villages surrounding Hebron. Diya was born barely eight miles from here, on 5 April, the product of more than a decade of fertility treatments. A few days before his birth, the Jewish settlers of Hebron buried an infant of their own: Shalhavet Pass, aged 10 months, who was shot dead by a Palestinian sniper at the entrance to the settlement. Ever since, the people of Hebron have been demanding that Israel's Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, reoccupy parts of Hebron awarded to Palestinian control in 1997. They are infuriated by his refusal to do so - especially since the hardline Sharon has been the champion of Jewish settlers for decades. That, to Wilder's mind, explains the murder of Diya and two adult Palestinian men, and the rampages through the surrounding Palestinian market by the Jewish settlers of Hebron that have become a routine response to the gunfire from Palestinian militias during the last two months. 'The settlers used to drive by and throw stones. Now it is different. They have become really severe,' said Zarifeh Jabari, a middle-aged Pales tinian woman living along the road to the Hebron enclave. 'It's very scary.' Last week Jewish settlers rampaged down Ms Jabari's street and set fire to her son's car. 'I tried to stop them and one of the settlers grabbed me and kept banging my head against the wall of the garage.' Wilder does not appear shocked. 'When people feel abandoned and their lives are at stake, it's a natural reaction. It is the same here when people are shot at from the hills and the army does not shoot back, then some people are going to take up guns.' Israeli security officials had been warning of that danger for weeks. The chief of Israel's internal intelligence agency, Shin Bet, reported a few days before the shooting that it had evidence of a cell of armed Jewish extremists led by Kach members. The group had carried out at least three similar attacks, including one last month which killed a Palestinian lorry driver, and was claimed by a group called the Shalhevet-Gilad Brigade, after the Hebron infant. 'Revenge is holy,' a statement from the group said. 'It should be up to the government to do it, but unfortunately the government does not care about the murder of Jews - there are people whose patience has run out.' The security chief, Avi Dichter, told a committee of the Knesset, Israel's parliament, that the cells had not yet reached the levels of organisation of the so-called Jewish underground of the early 1980s, which tried to assassinate Palestinian mayors and plotted to blow up the Dome of the Rock. A day before a car belonging to a Kach activist, Noam Federman, blew up in Kiryat Arba. Security officials said they believed the explosives belonged to Federman. However, Baruch Marzel, a Kach activist from Hebron who has called for the arming of every single settler, was evasive on Friday night when Israeli television asked him about a new underground. 'In light of the government's failure to act, there is a vacuum, and into it individuals are drawn,' he said. Israeli and Palestinian human rights organisations have warned of that danger for months. In a report last March, the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring group said seven Palestinians had been killed by Jewish settlers since the start of the intifada last autumn. About a dozen were beaten, and there were scores of attacks against property, especially the uprooting of olive trees. Human rights organisations say settler violence runs much deeper than a few vigilantes. The settlers are armed and trained by the Israeli army and have always received lenient treatment from the courts. The Israeli human rights organisation, B'Tselem, says 119 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli civilians in the occupied territories; there have been only 16 convictions. In Hebron yesterday 5,000 people attended the funeral of Rajai Abu Rajab, killed when an explosion flattened an office of Yasser Arafat's Fatah party. Gunmen fired in the air and chanted calls for revenge as his body was carried through the streets. Palestinians say the bomb was an Israeli assassination attempt, but Israelis say it was a Palestinian bomb that prematurely exploded. "

03-02-2002, 06:27 AM	#160
mika Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Finland Posts: 1,561	bhutocracy is that Smegma a friend of yours who needs a DVD player?

03-02-2002, 06:38 AM	#161
pr0view Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Europe Posts: 270	i summon the god of the flaming threads, the demon who is always right, the living nightmare of all cheaters... 12CLICKS 12CLICKS 12CLICKS 12CLICKS 12CLICKS where are thou?

03-02-2002, 07:52 AM	#164
falafel Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ramat Gan, Israel Posts: 37	Hi, I am an Israeli citizen from Ramat Gan, Israel. Well, how many suicide bombings were there yet ? 10 ? 20 ? 50 ? Did it change the Palestinians? lives ? did it bring them a state ? did they improve their lives ? did they become rich ? happy ? Did they gain anything beside the contempt of the enlightened world and the hate of the Israeli people ? The Palestinians had a chance to get an independent state in 97% of the territory with no settlements & no settlers (in Camp David 2000 talks). What was their response to this peace offer ? The Intifada (terror war). Well, it looks like the Palestinians suffer from 2 very severe problems: they?re too greedy and they elected the wrong leader (and I didn't find the "right one" in their camp yet - beside Serri Nusseiba perhaps. The war between them and us is still alive and kicking but they have already totally lost the moral war. Anybody who sends a person into a pizzeria, a discotheque or a crowded street, to be mingled with innocent teenagers, women, children, babies and senior citizens and blow them up is not a freedom fighter nor an ideological warrior. He is a plain cold blooded terrorist and the world understands it by now. However, the most disgraceful thing is that all the suicide attacks are being carried out for one central motive: sexual benefits. The bombers are not killing themselves "for Palestine", "for freedom" or "for justice". They're doing it just in order to "get some"... They are being brainwashed that 72 virgins are waiting for them in sexy lingerie with lotions & creams in there hands. The Palestinian "national heroes" are nothing more than poor, sexual frustrated, sex hungry people who were exploited by others. And if this is their big motive for murdering others - I'd say that their political struggle is in a big problem.

03-02-2002, 08:12 AM	#165
BukWeeD Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7	Well, as far as I am concerned the blame goes directly to the Palestinian leadership and Arafat himself. The man IS and WAS a trigger happy terrorist during his whole life. The Americans and Israelis had made a huge mistake thinking that by offering him peace through the establishment of a Palestinian state would change his evil ways... NO !, he said. So after he had received control over most of the West Bank towns and Gaza, plus huge amounts of ammunition (given by Israel) intended to contain the extremist groups, he simply joined them. If you ask me, it was all planned, a trojan horse ! The U.S is RIGHT for supporting Israel in it's fight against terrorism. The way I see it Israel is only acting upon basic self defence. Israel is a very small country but it's the only place on earth for Jews to call their own. In only 50 years they have built a society based on freedom and democracy which is more than I can say for any Arab state... B.

03-02-2002, 08:22 AM	#166
ronenjeru Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: israel Posts: 22	the problem with those people who r against BOTH sides is that both sides usually become one and it sums up in Israel. All those anti-semitic threads covered in anti-israeli claims are unequivocally pro-terrorist. All those pro-palestinians are terror-supporters and should be dealt with likewise. They should be hunt down and crashed. Their mentality is of death. I'm just waiting for the next terror attack against a European target, I hate the Europeans with their support to the Arabs, let's see them dealing with suicide attacks every-day. Their denial of the Jewish homeland matches the arabs antisemitic propaganda. The only solution is to make them their own state - - - IN JORDAN. Yeasser Arafat!!!

03-02-2002, 08:31 AM	#167
ronenjeru Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: israel Posts: 22	I really think we (the Israelis) should get rid of this obstacle called the media - especially the Arab, BBC,Reuters teams. If we'd exactly what the PA does we would get some criticism, but we could monitor those reports we dont like. Actually it's a great idea, now that I think about it. We should target their offices exactly like the PA does. Wow why didnt I think about it earlier? Yeasser Arafat!!!

03-02-2002, 08:36 AM	#168
Rose Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ON,Canada Posts: 1,456	More power to Israel

03-02-2002, 10:35 AM	#173
tpr2k Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7	for those of you who are not updated... the Palestinians blew a car in Jerusalem this is one of their peace-keeping acts... and their way of fighting terror!... to blow up a car in order to kill Israelis! damn the Palestinians! kill arafat!

03-02-2002, 10:40 AM	#174
metoo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5	A (another) car bomb with an islamic palestinian suicide bomber just exploded is Israel. many injured and dead. most young. simple, unarmed civilians. Islam.... Palestinians.... SOON IN THE THEATER NEAR YOU!

03-02-2002, 10:50 AM	#176
Smegma Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,751	Anytime someone brings up politics and religion, the shit will surely get stirred. I read every post here. Most everyone here has made a good point for either side. I have been thinking a lot about what was said here, I did some research last night so I could make some valid points? but yesterday, I was talking to KC on the phone, and he said something to me I haven?t been able to shake. ?What is the difference between what the Palestinians are doing to the Israelis and what the al-Qaida did to us on September 11th? Besides body count, I couldn?t think of a good response without nullifying my past points. So tell me? what is the difference?

03-02-2002, 11:17 AM	#179
metoo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5	well... Israel entered the camps in order to kill terrorists in them. Many terrorists were killed, a factory of missiles was destroyed, 15 missiles captured. unfortunatly, some civilians were killed too (you already know why, here's a reminder...) a suicide bomb exloped in a center of a town, he terrorist tried to kill AS MANY CIVILLIANS AS POSSIBLE, (unfortunatly, did I mention?) as to france, next decade, when muslims will rule their country, they'll understand, but it will be too late for them. why do you take france as a reference agains israel, they are well known in their pro-palestinian (aka the underdog) attitude.

03-02-2002, 11:32 AM	#182
Zebra Banned from Kimmy's couch Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Down at Fraggle Rock Posts: 5,091	You know what really irks me? I just saw this on a chuch sign near my house: No God - No Peace Know God - Know Peace Doesn't look like knowing God did jack shit for the people in Israel, Palestine, Ireland, Bosnia, Croatia, India, or any other country where people have died in the name of religion.

03-02-2002, 11:35 AM	#183
BukWeeD Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7	YouMorons, just thought you should know that the majority of Palestinians that were killed in the refugee camps during the past couple of days (28 of them) were NOT as innocent as you think... They were all armed to their teeth (Hammas, Fatah) group members. An explosives and rocket factory was descovered and destroyed, and a large amount of ammunition was confiscated. France is a pro-Arab country so there's nothing else to expect from them, Jewish prayer houses get burnt to the ground in France and nobody does a fuckin thing about it, hell nobody even condemned it ! U.N. human rights activists are always very critical about Israel's actions but when Palestinians blow themselves up killing Israelis those so called "human rights" political assholes don't say a word...why ???, because there are about 50 Moslem entities in the U.N and only a single Jewish one. Good old Mr. Cofee Annan wants to continue his current job, now doesn't he ??? B.

03-02-2002, 11:47 AM	#184
YouMorons Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 31	BukWeeD you are actually wrong most escaped to a different camps. A few (Hammas, islamic jihad) and civilians, mostly policeman (mostly policeman are the one who were killed) were killed. The U. N is an international body it consists of over 180 countries, It is funny how we the U.S see only Israel as doing all the right things and the rest don't? how the rest want peace keepers but Israel doesn't? you bet Israel doesn't you have to realize first that most right wing Israelis want to expand Israel to make it bigger, U.N peace keeping troops would make that hard and if the U.S didn't veto the troops the Jewish lobby and media would hamper them. I have no doubt part of the reason Clinton waited until he's second term to work towards a middle east solution is because he didn't care much then, same as why Nixon was waiting for he's second term, you cant be reelected. We even state in the tenet report the Jewish settlements are not legal, Yet they keep on expanding? Wonder why they don't listen to us, why do pay them billions a year, which is part of my tax money. __________________ Think before you talk, know the facts. Last edited by YouMorons; 03-02-2002 at 11:51 AM..

03-02-2002, 12:15 PM	#185
metoo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5	this baby was killed usung a telescopic lens. the palestinian terrorist aimed to her head. palestinian terrorist attack on a SCHOOL BUS bombing another city bye palestinian terrorists these kinds just went to a DISCO CLUB. more than 18 killed by palestinian terrorists. SOON IN THE THEATER NEAR YOU!

03-02-2002, 12:52 PM	#186
BukWeeD Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7	Those so called "Policemen" are in fact members of Fatah movement who are the main armed Palestinian militia group. They have openly claimed responsibility for dozens of terrorist attacks against Israelis in the past couple of months. As for the multinational peace keeping force, which basically consists of U.N troops, it's clear that they'll be taking their orders from the U.N itself, thus preventing Israel from acting against Palestinian terror cells inside the PA while providing safe-haven for the terrorists so they can continue doing what they want. Do you really think that a U.N will defend Israel and fight-off the terror ??? How will they prevent terrorists from entering Israel if the I.D.F has trouble doing so ??? We have already seen the nature of these "peace keeping" troops in Southern Lebanon who cooperated with Hizbullah in the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. Those troops saw the hole thing, hell they even filmed it ! but did nothing to stop it !! Israel does NOT want to expand itself, the settlers may wish to do so but they are a minority. If Arafat had accepted the offers made by Israel during the Oslo peace talks the settlements would have been a piece of history by now... By the way, the Fatah movement has just claimed responsibility for the suicide bombing in Jerusalem killing 8 people ( 2 babies ) and injuring more than 40 people, 5 of them are in critical condition, ALL INNOCENT PEOPLE KILLED OUTSIDE A PRAYER HOUSE ...."Policemen" you say.....!!?? B.

03-02-2002, 01:09 PM	#187
YouMorons Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 31	BukWeeD hmm since when attacking soliders is not ok when you at war? answer that? Hizbullah attacked the soliders. Why not call ourselves Israel? And not the United States of America? after all we are controlled by a foreign power who lobbies our government for their interest and not the American interest. Israel sponsors state terrorism. http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/He...or_Herman.html http://www.abbc.com/http://menj.trip...m.htm/zionism/ http://www.abbc.com/historia/zionism/ "In 1967, Israel purposefully attacked with unmarked jet fighters and torpedo boats, the U.S.S. Liberty, an American Navy vessel of the Sinai Peninsula, even machine gunning the deployed life rafts of the ship. The attack killed 31 American servicemen and wounded over 170. " "The attack on the Liberty was nothing short of a vicious act of war against the United States by Israel. In spite of the fact that U.S. Secretary of State Dean Rusk and navy chief Admiral Moorer said that the attack on the USS Liberty by Israel was deliberate. The all-powerful Zionist Lobby prevented a formal Congressional investigation. " why not call purselfs iseral? and not he united states of america? and you say to this? America's one-sided policy foreign policy can be illustrated by the different treatment afforded Israel and Iraq: Iraq invaded Kuwait. Israel invaded Lebanon. Perhaps 3000 Kuwait civilians died in the initial war with Iraq. 40,000 Lebanese died from the time of the invasion through the occupation. Iraq disobeyed UN resolutions to leave Kuwait. Israel disobeyed UN resolutions to leave Lebanon. (for 18 years) Iraq broke international conventions on chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. Yet Israel is a far greater offender, having one of the greatest stores of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons in the world Iraq refused UN inspections. Israel has always refused UN inspection. For these violations we bombed Iraq. In response to Israel's crimes, America just continued to send more billions of dollars. __________________ Think before you talk, know the facts.

03-02-2002, 02:23 PM	#188
BukWeeD Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7	The soldiers were kidnapped AFTER Israel had already evacuated South Lebanon, there was no state of war, the soldiers were posted there in order to secure the borders and were kinnapped. a U.N force was present at the incident, the troops filmed the whole thing but did nothing to stop it. One of those U.N troops later on said that Hizbullah agents were providing them with fresh supplies of Lebanese hookers and alchohol. The U.N had oficially refused to admit the tape had existed for quite a long while till a copy somehow found it's way to the hands of Israeli intelligence, no use hiding it anymore....bad PR you know.... Perhaps you should be aware that Israel is responsible for providing a whole lot of intelligence which led to the capture of many of Bin Laden's men around the world, thus saving countless American lives, off the record and the media off-course... Listen, YouMorons, it's clear that you hold an anti-Israeli and an Anti-Jewish perspective. That's your thing....keep doing so if it makes you feel better but do consider learning the facts before using your hate as motive. Do you really know why Israel had invaded Southern Lebanon ? Well, i'll tell ya why, because Hizbullah was constantly firing rockets towards northern Israeli towns, people there used to spend more time inside the shelters than outside, the invasion was meant to secure northern Israel from rockets and terrorists. You probably keep forgetting how small Israel is, take another look at the map posted in one of the previous pages and compare it to the HUGE sizes of all the other Arab counries in the region. Don't you think that a people who has suffered 6 Million deaths by the Nazis on the same basis of hate that you are currently motivating should have their own small piece of land to call their own ? Read the Bible and you'll find solid historical proof of the hard linkage between the Jewish people and the land of Israel and Jerusalem. B.

03-02-2002, 03:36 PM	#189
ronenjeru Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: israel Posts: 22	I think that this "you moron" guy is an unstable, dillusioned, ignorant palestinian. If people here dont know history then they should not be allowed to write their views. It's exhausting to read stupid things and having to respond. And another thing Israelis are always right and the Palestinians are always wrong. It's just like that, and if u dont like it u can go drink the waters of the dead sea. The Palestinians are not innocent especially those who were killed in the camps, trying to make it look like they were innocent civilians wont work- they were taped! About that bigoted no-good antisemitic Mery Robinson, I think she's got her job by licking some Arab asses. She's pro-palestinian and should be dealt with like one - Israel should react also to the French antisemitical remarks and severe ties with those Frogs. Yamut Arafat, umiyad!!!

03-02-2002, 05:04 PM	#190
YouMorons Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 31	ronenjeru you must be from Israel enough said, your remarks are ignored. Im an American you dumb shit, you highways are paid for by my tax dollars you ignorant moron. You may need to read history also. __________________ Think before you talk, know the facts. Last edited by YouMorons; 03-02-2002 at 05:39 PM..

03-02-2002, 09:17 PM	#193
Rose Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ON,Canada Posts: 1,456	ronenjeru you must be from Israel enough said, your remarks are ignored. Im an American you dumb shit, you highways are paid for by my tax dollars you ignorant moron. You may need to read history also. ---------------------------------------------------- This is one BIG BS LOL Hey you smart "American" I dont think that your tax dollars paid for any highways in Israel. You know Jews are rich even without your pennies

03-02-2002, 10:21 PM	#194
YouMorons Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 31	Is that why you dependent on us (the U.S) for billions of dollars a year? think again. Without us you are nothing. __________________ Think before you talk, know the facts. Last edited by YouMorons; 03-02-2002 at 10:27 PM..

03-03-2002, 02:15 AM	#195
Danny_C Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,160	Pictures of dead babies don't prove anything in this argument... that's just propaganda to make people sympathetic toward Israel. If you can explain to me the relevance, I'll take that back. I believe I've read every post, and I have yet to see a person excuse terrorism, or the killing of innocent people. I haven't seen a person say that the Palestinians are justified in their actions. I haven't seen anybody say that killing innocent people is the right way for them to handle their problems. What people are saying is that there ARE problems that can't just be ignored because they chose the wrong means of retaliation. You can't take an entire faction of people and leave them to the wolves just because some of them decided to organize and fight back the only way they know how... no matter how wrong that way might be. Here's an analogy: When poor black people in our own country start rioting, rebelling, robbing convenience stores to feed their families, etc, we like to use those actions to condemn the entire black lower class. Of course, I wouldn't excuse the man who robs the bank to feed his family, but I'm also not going to ignore the fact that there are environmental factors that drove him to it... problems that need to be addressed - without which, these issues might not exist in the first place. The same applies to the Palestinians. I doubt anybody here is excusing their actions. They're just saying that the Palestinians have a legitimate complaint that needs to be addressed. We can't overlook that problem by continuing to be best friends with Israel, or else we're only perpetuating it. Personally, I'm against all forms of violence and dogma, including both religion and nationalism. If a person needs religion to give him or her morals, then that person has no morals. If a person with no morals gets his moral guidance from an ancient document written by a woman hater (as much of the bible was, for instance), then he might feel justified to hate women (as many do). The same pitfalls apply to nationalism. So when I see this argument degenerate into a question of which faction of people is more righteous, I can't even take it seriously anymore. Not one involved party can claim guiltlessness. Instead of pointing fingers, we need to get rid of our prejudice and start looking for an answer.

03-03-2002, 08:13 AM	#196
YouMorons Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 31	if someone fucked with my family i would be fucking pissed. This doesnt jusify it but, if someone did something to my family i'd may go fucking nuts. ---------- "The Brigades said they were avenging the deaths of Palestinians, some of them civilians, when Israeli forces raided the Balata and Jenin refugee camps Thursday and Friday in what they called a sweep for terrorists and explosives." "Let me tell that dog Sharon that I will strike and I will avenge my families in the Balata refugee camp...(and) Jenin refugee camp, and on behalf of all the martyrs in Palestine," suicide bomber Mohammed Daraghma, 18, said in a last testament video that showed a backpack with protruding wires at his side. source: A.P --------------- __________________ Think before you talk, know the facts.

03-03-2002, 08:39 AM	#197
YouMorons Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 31	Yet again, we see an amazing bias in the American news media. Look at this headline: "Palestinian Attacks Kill 21 Israelis." Horrific news, granted, and very newsworthy. But only YESTERDAY, when as many as 30 Palestinians were killed, including ten children under 18 years old and 2 babies (according to The Guardian newspaper, www.guardian.co.uk), the US headlines read: "Israeli Raids Cloud Peace Initiative." NOT: "Israeli Raids Kill 30 Palestinians." Notice that the US media almost never assign blame to Israel for any killings. Palestinians casualities are rarely in the headlines while Israelis are "killed by Palestinians." In one example of particularly bad journalism, NPR's Israel correspondent Linda Gradstein reported a "day of relative calm" on a day when some 16 Palestinians were killed. The US media clearly assign more value to Israeli lives than to Palestinian. (for more on this issue, see the FAIR link below) Also note that in this story, the Palestinian "celebrations" of this horrific violence are discussed, but the racist calls for "death to Arabs" chanted by Israelis in Jerusalem are notably not mentioned in the article. The BBC and the Independent (www.independent.co.uk) report that BOTH sides engaged in deplorable calls for more violence. Why did the US media ignore the Israeli racism? Don't take my word for this. Check the following media watch groups for more on this issue: FAIR (Fairness and Accuraccy in Reporting): http://www.fair.org/ Institute for Public Accuracy http://accuracy.org/ Media Monitors Network http://www.mediamonitors.net/ And for a wider breadth of news coverage, get AWAY from US media. Try other sources, including the Israeli media (which is FAR less pro-Israel than the US media). For example: Ha'aretz: www.haaretzdaily.com (liberal-leaning) Jerusalem Post: www.jpost.com (conservative-leaning) And try the European press: http://news.bbc.co.uk http://www.guardian.co.uk __________________ Think before you talk, know the facts.