The_Joe

i had epassporte account opened by DamCash. After one of my friends paid me there, it was blocked. Also was blocked my friend's account, and the account of my another friend, whom I sent money 2 days ago.

So, it was said to me by epassporte, that my account is fradulent.
And the reason he is fradulent - is that he was opened by DamCash.

The main question - what the fault of the people, who made me transfers and to whom I made tranfers. They was also closed and lost money...

Kimmykim

As I said, I have nothing against Russians.

I do have quite a few issues with fraudsters and cheaters.

Does that mean that every account in this ring that was closed had fraudulent activity on it? No.

Many of the accounts were closed prior to there being any activity whatsoever on them due to the nature of the fraud up the chain.

I'm not going to apologize for our risk management group, they do a very good job.

I'm not going to apologize for us occasionally saying we won't tell you why your account was terminated.

Any time there is money that needs to be accounted for, it is sorted out and returned to where it rightfully belongs, whether that's crediting someone's card or putting it back into the account that it should be in.

I've been in this business on the processing side for nearly 5 years now, and it's always the same thing. Cheaters think that if they keep on crying about the fact they were caught cheating, their accounts will either be re-instated or they will get some answers that allow them to develop better methods to attempt to cheat.

This is not limited to ePassporte either, I went through this same nonsense with CCBill all the time when I was there.

Kimmykim

If money comes into the system through fraudulent means, or money through the system fraudulently, that doesn't mean that after the money moves around a time or two it's no longer fraudulent, it simply means that it still needs to find it's rightful owner and be returned.

This isnt rocket science.

And if we catch someone attempting or committing fraud, you don't seriously think that we are going to allow them to perpetuate it, do you?

Bezruk

Cheaters never send to you any real info. Because they afraid some legal action. IMHO.

Epass have all my documents (id, phone bill). I'AM NOT CHEATER.

I know one more case with closed account. And in this case epass tell about FRAUD activity on empy accounts without any transaction!

supermack

epassporte is trash.

I got burnt as well.

They hired assholes for customer service.

They come on the board and try this damage control thing, and find a few people to back them up, becuase those people probably do business with them using paycom transactions, and have too much money tied up into them with rebills, that they wouldnt dream of saying anything bad about them.

you shouldnt have kept my money and closed my account!!

for what?

I opened my account, they charged me $50 to do so. Then on my very first payment i received through them, they froze the account, were extremely rude to me on the phone and didnt help me at all, told me i would receive an email, and never did.


way to go epassporte.

The_Joe

The reason my account was closed is not "fradulent" money.
The reason I was told by mail - it was closed because it was opened by DamCash, and all accounts created by DamCash were closed.

So that money WASN'T fraud. What fault of the person who paid it to me, and the person whom i paid them next?

They are not FRAUDSTERS.

Again - the reason I was told - my account closed because ALL DamCash accounts were closed. What the fault of the people who paid me? Why you closed their accounts? There wasn't any fraud money. NO FRAUD MONEY AT ALL.

And what is my fault also?

If you found fraudster - close him. close accounts of his partnters, but what is my fault? I don't connected with any fraudster at all.

Me and my friends lost money for nothing.

greenlab

Kimmy, i'm sure there are a lot of people who are trying to defraud your system...however, i have a question about the normal accounts :

is there a way, or official procedure in place to determine that I can use, as a epassporte account holder., to determine if the money sent to me by someone else are from a fraudulent source ? Also there is a way i can deny this transfers ?

I'm asking this because a normal account can receive money from a fraudster without knowing it , and , accounding to what people say, both the fraudulent account from where the money were originating and the normal account get closed....

you probably had some good reasons for closing some of the accounts, but please explain the question above in detail, to prevent normal people who hold normal epassporte accounts to be closed becouse they might receive funds from fraudulent accounts without knowing it...

Bezruk

They dont know reason. Call him 2 times and you get 2 different answers.

supermack

This is exactly what I want to know. I tried asking them the same thing on the phone, and I got nothing, but some seriuosly rude mother fucker on the phone, telling me to wait for an email explaining what happened.

Hey, I never received my email....epassporte said 2 days. Its been over 2 weeks! still nothing.

SmokeyTheBear

I think your missing the point dear..

Several people have come here saying they had money taken and werent part of any "ring" they were merely affiliates who signed up for a sponsor. I dont see how that requires seizure of all funds and accounts associated with that account.

either your calling every affiliate that used this sponsor a liar , or you have money that doesn't belong to you.

This is far from rocket science. Your customer service is terrible, you insinuate fraud with every post you make so as to make any complaint seem like fraud. If you have proof of fraud with the account then POST IT OR STOP INSINUATING BULLSHIT.

You also seem to insinuate that all these people are russians and therefore must be guilty...

If joe@epassporte loaded his account with $20 from a stolen cc and then bought a domain from a person on gfy with an account balance of 3grand how do you figure that gives you the right to seize the guy who just sold him a domain ???

But then again why bother figuring it out because when you lock an account you take the money , so its of no loss to you and certainly no gain to try and figure out what really happened..


So lets talk concrete things here..

Where did the money go from affiliates of damacash. ( you said it was returned to rightfull owners ) so how much was taken/returned and how much are you sitting on ??

I dont think this is an unfair question..

You sure dont make a very good customer service rep by trying to pull this sort of shit without TRANSPARENCY to your customers.

__________________
hatisblack at yahoo.com

noelf

hard to know the thruth in all those shits...I'm about to open a Profesionnal Epassport account...don't know what to do...I can believe that this sponsor could have his account closed due to something on which he can't do anything...

__________________
Fred

Kimmykim

Well Smokey, here we go.

And I'll go slowly.

If someone were receiving money from a fraudulent account, even if it were their sponsor, and the money that was in the ePassporte system originated in a fraudulent manner, the blame is on the sponsor, not on ePassporte.

SmokeyTheBear

Good question !! I asked the same question , they wont ever answer that..


But at least you now know how to piss someone off and take their money..

All you have to do is load an epassporte account send some money to your enemies then report your cc as stolen and they will close all the accounts.. Clever eh..

__________________
hatisblack at yahoo.com

Kimmykim

99.9% of sponsors aren't cheaters, Russian, American, whatever. If you've got a specific list of sponsors you are receiving monies from and you want me to take a look at it, drop me an email and I will. Can I guarantee they won't ever cheat? No. Can I give you my personal opinion? Yes.

If a sponsor were attempting to cheat Paycom, CCBill, Ibill, etc and they closed the sponsor account, credited the joins back and didn't issue payments, I don't see where there would be such an outcry. It happens all the time.

Just because a few folks got caught cheating and seem to think that by bringing it up over and over again we are going to change out position on it, doesn't mean we are going to change our position.

The point that seems to be overlooked here is that the original money doesn't get tossed into some slush fund to pay for drinks for the ePassporte crew; when we find fraud the money goes back to where it started without being tainted.

If that means that surfers or other people had money refunded to them because of something that happened down the chain, that's what happens.

This isn't even simple auto mechanics at this point, much less rocket science...

Bezruk

As i see you dont want listen what we say.

Maybe this help:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Epassporte Customer Service" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: Important Notice About Your ePassporte Account


> Dear Cardholder,
>
> Our Accounts Verification Department has terminated your account and all
> other accounts created by your sponsor noganka. Please direct all further
> inquiries to [email protected].
>
> I hope this information is helpfull.
>
> Regards,
> Jon
> Epassporte Cardholder Services
> [email protected]
> Toll-Free from US: 1-877-372-7790
> International and US: 1-310-301-2001


Where is FRAUD? Why this account closed??

The_Joe

Kimmykim, if sponsor receive fraud money, what is my fault?

Sponsor can have more than 100 affiliate accounts, and if one of them is fraudster, what is the fault of other 99?

Can you show any prove, that I did something wrong? Can you tell me what is my fault? What i did wrong. I lost my money. I lost tons of nervous trying to solve this problems with my friends who were also closed for nothing.

How can people know who receive money know are they fradulent or not? Or are they in fradulent ring or not? How can i use your system, if you can close account in every moment with all MY money on it.

Explaining nothing.

Kimmykim

Now, I'm going to be out for the afternoon, it's the weekend and I just got back from way too long in Florida for show business.

By the time I get back I expect that we'll have several more brand new posters screaming about this, more questions from Smokey, even though I know he's smart enough to figure this out and just loves to stir the shit when I'm involved (;-}}}) and some other goodies to boot.

Stay tuned, get the popcorn out, maybe we can even get some surprise posters in the thread to comment.

SmokeyTheBear

im not talking about blame.. I'm talking about $$$$.

If a guy goes into 7-11 and buys a slurpee with a stolen credit card visa doesn't SEIZE the 7-11.

Ok now this isn't the best example but lets say 7-11 commited a fraud and then you went in with your cc and bought something visa wouldn't close your account.

The money has to be returned yes, but this sounds fairly unlegal.

If a mobster hires a pool guy ( unknwn to the pool guy ) your basically seizing money that the pool guy earned because the mobster got it illegally. That doesn't mean the poolguy shouldn't earn his money , he didn't know shit.. All he did was clean a pool and your taking his money..

__________________
hatisblack at yahoo.com

Kimmykim

If you, or any other affiliates who don't understand what I am saying or aren't happy with it, would like to email me directly with your account user name, I'll be happy to have risk management look into where every dollar that came into or went out of your account originated, and I'll be happy to deal with you directly.

Should there be an error on our part then I will let you know. On the other hand, should you turn out to be part of this, then I will let the board know, does that sound fair enough?

freeadultcontent

Not using epassporte yet myself kimmy, so this is not an attack, knock, or anything of that matter. I am just attempting to follow along.

Scenerio:
I sell something to person X using epassporte.
Epassporte transfers the money into my account.
My services or product is delivered to person X.
Epassporte then discovers that person X was envoled in fraud.
Epassporte then freezes person X's account.
Epassporte then removes said funds from my account.
Epassporte could freeze my account for recieving such money?
Or is there some sort of seller's protection that the transfer fee's cover?

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SmokeyTheBear

The point i think your missing is , if one of these affiliates ( who didnt do anything wrong ) had the money from the sponsor seized , that is one thing.. But what about other monies accrued in these accounts..

Lets say if the affiliate whom you closed the account because he was signed up under a fraud sponsor had just sold 20 domains for $200 so he had his damcash payments and $200 in his account .. what happens to the $200. ??

Pretty simple question

__________________
hatisblack at yahoo.com

supermack

Smoky made a extremely intelligent point, so I dont think there is any need to go slowly. Treating people like they are stupid shows the amount of arrogance you people have over there.

I opened an account, to recieve payments from alot of webmaster affiliate programs. I had planned on using it extensively. However, on my very first transaction, you froze my account.

I think it should be pretty obviuos to other affiliate programs thinking of using epassporte. If they send there affiliate funds, and then another program sends them funds, but they are "alledgedly" fraudulent and you freeze the account of the affiliate webmaster, then thats gonna make payouts a nightmare for the non fraudulent affiliate program.

what a fucking mess.

sad.

Kimmykim

This isnt about pool guys and I'll reference my post above as to why you continue to be deliberately obtuse in this case.

If this were CCBill or Paycom or IBill and a fraudulent sponsor turned up, and the affiliate payouts were reversed, there wouldn't be this hue and cry about it.

And if the above example were the case, and it were the police or the DOJ on it, they'd attempt to recover the money from the pool guy as well as the mobster, there's this little thing called the RICO act, and all those conspiracy laws. It doesn't mean the pool guy was guilty, it's simply the law.

Bezruk

They can do anything with your money and your account and you have no explain about this.

Kimmykim

Why did you have to open an account? Every legitimate sponsor that pays via ePassporte will open accounts for their affiliates when they pay out. There is no reason that you should have had to open your account yourself if you were going to be receiving money from sponsors.

SmokeyTheBear

This is much better put..

You not only get the money taken from your account , but you also get ALL OTHER MONEY taken away as well.. But this money just floats around in epassporte without anyone owning it ??

So basically you cant ever accept money from anyone , because if you do and one day they do something bad epassporte will take all your money ?? hmm this doesn't sound right at all..

__________________
hatisblack at yahoo.com

alexwin

Questions to epassporte:
1) Why did you close accounts of damcash affiliate webmasters? If damcash got stolen money from somebody, this does not necessary mean that damcash affiliates are subject to your repressions?
2) Maybe the REAL reason for closing damcash business account in question is that they changed their address to Russia. Are you racists or what?
3) Should I open epassporte account and have honest funds in it... What if I pay to some Joe, and this Joe will have his account closed someday. I BET YOU WILL CLOSE MY ACCOUNT AS WELL WITH NO REASONS AT ALL.
4) Finally, Epassporte, please confirm that DAMCASH affiliate program together with its owners are fraud and scam. Since you closed their account, it must be so, isn't it?

Kimmykim

Sorry, I missed your post, or I'd have answered you directly, but now I will.

If I am a sponsor and an affiliate is using stolen credit cards to sign up to my site and collect their payout, then Visa, Mastercard, etc will take the money from my account even though I did not know the affiliates were committing fraud.

This hasn't changed in all the years that there have been credit card payments. In some cases Visa might eat the loss, or the bank might, but that's pretty rare to see.

Keep in mind that when you use ePassporte, you are using the Visa system. Visa has certain rules, processes and regulations that have to be followed regarding transactions.

Kimmykim

I've already answered this, if you aren't reading my posts, I'm going to stop replying to yours.

supermack

It would seem to me, that if you close an account, becuase someone sent to that account, money that was received from fraudulent means, and then you keep ALL the money that the account received from other "non" fraudulent parties, then epassporte, themselves would be guilty of fraud.

Im not a lawyer, but if you ask one, they will tell you something pretty close.

The_Joe

Kimmy, here is my account: dam_adv_916

i can't mail to you from epassporte mail, because it is suspended for me
I mailed you lot of times. Can you tell me why this account was closed? Tell it here please, I have nothing to afraid, because I'm not fraudster. Tell the reason of this account was closed? Any real reason pls. And, please, any real reason for my friends accounts were closed

i got ONE, ONE (!!) transfer from my friend, who is not fraudster, he loaded money from his CC, so he can't be in fraud ring and than send this money to another friend.

The person who made the transfer called you, and he was told, that my account fradulent. The person who got my money was also told - MY account is fradulent.

Tell me, HOW MY ACCOUNT is fradulent??? What i did???
You can tell it here, as i said.

SmokeyTheBear

if ccbill or paycom or ibill reversed payments thats one thing, if they took money that wasnt involved in those transactions thats another.. Apples and oranges dear...

I am well aware of the rico act and it doesnt mean the feds can take the money from the poolguys account that is not involved in payments from the mobster ( i.e. your seizing what the poolguy earned from the mobster plus everything else the poolguy had ) this would be illegal.

__________________
hatisblack at yahoo.com

SmokeyTheBear

No you didnt. You explained what happens to the $20 fraud money you reverse , but you didn't explain what everyone here is waiting for you to explain.. WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL THE OTHER MONEY.. see above posts by many people asking the same question

__________________
hatisblack at yahoo.com

supermack

people are just trying to make sense of it all.

why go and be a fucking hahahaha about it?

If thats your way of explaining to the people, you people suck even more so then what i thought.

epassporte cant do better then that for damage control?

You people arent making any sense, thats why posts are continuosly being made. Make some fucking sense, and fix the problem, and then maybe we will all shut the fuck up.

Kimmykim

This is my last answer for the afternoon, and I will address anything else that I think needs to be addressed later in the weekend, since I've already said I'm leaving for the afternoon.

1. Our contract is with damcash when they are the ones funding their webmaster payouts. Our contract is not with their affiliates when the money in question is theirs. Perhaps their affiliates should have made better choices in sponsors, but that's not my call. Frankly until all this started, I'd never heard of damcash. I'm not sure how this represses anyone, but I'll think about it.

2. How would you know that they specifically started out with a non-Russian address and then changed their address to Russia? I'm not racist and I can't see how someone could be aware of the specifics as to their account unless they were somehow involved with the folks at damcash.

3. This is untrue.

4. As both Rand and I have stated, we do not discuss specifics of accounts publicly with anyone, and we only discuss them privately with the account holders. I'm checking my email and I don't see anything from any of you at the moment. Motos emailed me, I told him that he would have to deal with risk managment on this issue repeatedly. If risk management has talked to him repeatedly, then he simply refuses to accept the answer that he has been given and there's nothing I can do to change that situation.

Rand also told motos if he'd like his account details made public, then all he needs to do is say so, and we'll find someone -- not me or Rand, most likely -- who can accomodate him.

So, post on, I'll be back. Of course there is still not one email from any of you that claim to be innocently affected by this in my mail box at this moment, so that tells me alot.

SmokeyTheBear

Basically it boils down to this.

If i am Joe [email protected] with 50,000 in my account how am i supposed to ascertain if a user who buys something from me is using a "fraud" account..

If i sell [email protected] a domain for $20 i not only risk losing the $20 , but i also risk losing my 50 grand that you will seize when you find joescammer@epassporte has sent me $20 ( without any way of me verifying this )

__________________
hatisblack at yahoo.com

freeadultcontent

So summary is this:
Yes my account could be closed.
Yes the money recieved from fraudster would be removed. (unclear about what happens if other funds are in there at time).
There is no seller's protection like a certain non adult 3rd party has. I am just SOL with what I delivered.

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Kimmykim

You know, I tried to be nice about this. But at this point you're just being an idiot.

Read what I have written and then when your reading comprehension hits the third grade level, ask me a relevant question.

I'll be back in a few hours.

SmokeyTheBear

and in the above example , what happens to the 50 grand you seize ?

__________________
hatisblack at yahoo.com

SmokeyTheBear

maybe you should try ANSWERING the damn questions instead of insulting people..

__________________
hatisblack at yahoo.com

Kimmykim

We don't seize, we return.

Good afternoon

Chris Mallick

This is the last post from any of us at ePassporte on this issue and this thread. This has gone way too far, imo.

The situation is simple: We have sold hundreds of thousands of accounts. We have caught about 200 fraudsters; some of which are posting on this thread, others on other threads. Those fraudsters that post also call, some more than others, however all with one purpose: They are trying to figure a new angle. Our fraud accounts are low, by any Issuer?s standards. That is because we catch and stop it going in whenever possible. And this bullshit of crying ?I am being singled out because I am a Russian? is just that BULLSHIT. Most of the scammers are not Russian at all, but almost all of them try and make us believe that they are Russian. So to all my Russian friends, maybe you good guys could seek out those bad guys that are giving you a bad rep. Something tells me you will know how to handle them.

Guess what people? We are not going to play or be played. We do not steal money from valid accounts; nor have we ever. Have we ever made a mistake? Yes. Will we ever make another mistake? Yes. Is the case mentioned in this thread a real fraud, YES! Is it possible we made a mistake on this case? NO! This, like other fraud accounts (suspected or real) are checked, double-checked and then tripled checked. This case has been checked about 7 times. We won?t check any more and we won?t accept anyone, and I mean ANYONE slandering our name and damaging our reputation and brand. Period.

If anyone out there believes that we have or would ever take money from anyone, prove it and do so in court. Because truth is an absolute defense, if you are so sure you are right in calling us a thief then go ahead, but get ready to fight. If you are in any country in the world, you can find a lawyer and file a compliant. Or at least, just have a lawyer write a letter to us. It is always funny to me that the real crooks want to debate on a board and not in a courthouse. Things that make you go??Hmmm?.

So to end this, let me say that there have been literally millions of transactions performed by Sponsors and other business in payments to Affiliates or employees or Associates using ePassporte. There have been complaints for a variety of reasons and about 99.5% of those have been handled, the first time, to the cardholders? satisfaction. I wish we could do everything, 100% of the time, perfectly. It is not possible. We will keep trying. But all of you guys claiming we stole your money are just wrong and we can and will prove it if required, but not on a board or in a post. If you have a legitimate complaint that you are not being serviced as quickly as you would like, please email me at [email protected] and put ?CS Issue? in the subject line. I will handle it ASAP.

To all of the people and programs that are happy with ePassporte and our excellent service and risk management, thanks and we will try to do a better job, every day.

To those of you that try, on a daily basis, to get over on us through fraud, please, and I say this with all sincerity:
Go Fuck Yourself!

C

__________________

Chris Mallick
[email protected]

The_Joe

KimmyKim, give me your mail please.
Mail, where i can write beeing sure I will get normal reply, not just a reply like "your account was closed because of your sponsor".

Tell me the mail, i can write for detailed answer about my account, but not risk management mail, all they wrote to me "we can't take your businees anymore".

Give me mail of person, who can give detailed answer. If it is you - give me your mail.

alexwin

Kimmykim, as soon as sponsor created an account with epassporte for their affiliate - this affiliate HAS A CONTRACT WITH YOU. So what are you talking about - "Our contract is not with their affiliates"? Their affiliates had their accounts closed, this is the point.
For the record, I am in now way associated with damcash.
"2. How would you know that they specifically started out with a non-Russian address and then changed their address to Russia? "
I LEARNED THIS FROM THIS LONG THREAD. KimmyKim you probably need to read what members post here. This fact was
posted by affiliate program owner.

SmokeyTheBear

nice how you dont answer the question , who would you return the 50 grand too ? you seized the account ??

Are you just reading from a script or do you actually use part of your brain while attempting to answer questions ??

It looks as though epassporte wont answer the question..

Very simple for anyone..

What stops someone from intentionally loading up a fraud card and sending money to his enemies ?? Thus epassporte will seize all the accounts the fraudster sends money too.

GET IT ?? COMPRENDE ??

And what happens to all the extra money.. you keep forgetting to answer that question in all your lengthy drivel posts.

yes we understand you reverse the fraud money , but what about all the other money ?? what part of this is so hard for you to understand . Its a very simple question..

__________________
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The_Joe

I mailed to chris.mallick (@) epassporte.com

hope to get normal answer.

Bezruk

also do this

SpeakEasy

First I have to say from an outsiders point of view, epassporte is pulling major scams themselves. Fraud control is 1 thing, but they are doing the same fraud themselves. Closing accounts for no reason other than "association" with an alleged scammer and keeping the money is some serious Bull Shit. Also the useless replies and side stepping all these epassporte reps are writing is like a joke. Epassporte stop running around the bush and answer smokey's and others questions with a real answer, and not some side stepping mumbo jumbo crap.....

KCat

I can't believe how patient KimmyKim's being in this thread. I'm impressed, girl!

Every complaint in this thread is a new nick that nobody has ever heard of. Hmmmm...why aren't any experienced webmasters with good reputations having problems? I wonder...

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freeadultcontent

I am gun shy and still hesitant to sign up. Some of my questions were not answered in a way I could understand them. When a simple yes or no will work, and I get a paragraph that I need to read 4 times while scratching my head and still not finding my answer, I worry.

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