8 Arguments for Eating Meat

[$5 submissions]

and several counterarguments

http://www.mesacc.edu/~davpy35701/text/meatarg.html

[L-Pink]

1) I own stock in Ruth's Chris Steak House

[SilentKnight]

Considering the rampant supidity on this planet - I'm looking forward to some soylent green.

[Struggle4Bucks]

False non-logical and manipulated arguments from a non meat eating sack of bones.

[sandman!]

read thru half if it stupid arguments.

[Creatine]

[JockoHomo]

Am an Anarchist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism

[CPA37710T]

i eat meat because i like it, end of discussion whoever took the time to write all this crap (not OP) should just not eat meat, this is the same kind of argument android and apple users have, its about choice, nothing else.. is it that hard?

[Arnox]

i keep slaves because i like it, end of discussion whoever took the time to write all this crap (not OP) should just not keep slaves, this is the same kind of argument android and apple users have, its about choice, nothing else.. is it that hard?

A lot of people would consider this analogy to be a perfectly sound example of why 'it's a choice' doesn't really matter.

A lot of people who abstain from the consumption of animal products would argue that using Android or Apple applications doesn't cause harm to others, so you are free to do as you wish. Whereas they would argue that your choice in diet causes direct harm to animals, so you should avoid using a line of argument that depends on personal preference.

As demonstrated in the analogy, keeping slaves causes direct harm to others, and you would likely abstain from that practice because you know this. Those that don’t eat meat would claim that you should similarly abstain from a practice where you cause direct harm to non-human animals.

[mineistaken]

I can not imagine not eating meat for one week, let alone for month, year or forever...
And no I do not believe that you could same nutrition value without meat as you would have eating it. In theory maybe..

[winter_]

just because someone eats meat doesn't mean they won't also eat vegetables and vegetable soy products, i did. the problem is they ain't cheap and you don't really get much for your money compared to meat sausage and meat patties ecetera. i dieted pretty hard throughout most of last year and lost about 35kg because of it, vegetables and vegetable imitation helped me get there.

[Si]

Originally Posted by Arnox

A lot of people who abstain from the consumption of animal products would argue that using Android or Apple applications doesn't cause harm to others, so you are free to do as you wish.

It does cause harm, sorry to tell you. Using anything on the planet can cause harm, doesn't matter what it is, could be lithium in your battery, or the meat of another animal. The fact you're arguing this kind of crap using a machine that has probably caused plenty of damage to the environment, is quite frankly pathetic.

I try to eat as healthy as possible, and my ultimate goal is to be to produce and sustain whatever diet I wish, without ruining the planet. If that involves meat on any level, I'd be happy with that.

[Struggle4Bucks]

Originally Posted by Arnox

A lot of people would consider this analogy to be a perfectly sound example of why 'it's a choice' doesn't really matter.

But it's a corrupted analogy. It's applying the same moral on ALL creatures/things/objects, etc... and giving all creatures/things/objects the same value.
Like there is some universal objective moral when in fact all moral is subjective.

... and since all moral is subjective: as long as it's within the law people should not have to feel quilty about eating meat if they don't feel quilty about it.

In some cultures you become a man as soon as you are able to hunt and kill an animal to provide for your tribe...

I guess some cultures are not aware of the fact they stand in the excreta of 2000 years christianity.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Biblical dietary arguments ...

[Phoenix]

i eat meat because we have the teeth for it.
You should keep a balanced healthy diet.

Last night i had mostly a vegetarian dish. Then ordered some butter chicken and bread..haha

[Arnox]

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

But it's a corrupted analogy. It's applying the same moral on ALL creatures/things/objects, etc... and giving all creatures/things/objects the same value.

Not quite. I can see no logical issue with it being spectrumized based on a level of sentience (or, more importantly, ability to feel pain). For example, bacteria has no concept of pain, so you can use cleaning products just fine. A vegan might argue that torturing an ant is probably better than a dog.

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

Like there is some universal objective moral when in fact all moral is subjective.

Sure. But moral subjectivism doesn't mean that there aren't good arguments for why you should follow one set of practices in life. Also, I'd probably find some VERY inconsistent logic with anyone's framework of morality if they consume animal products. Most people don't think about it, because it's an inconvenient fact about the nature of living: things feel pain, but they're too lazy to change.

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

... and since all moral is subjective: as long as it's within the law people should not have to feel quilty about eating meat if they don't feel quilty about it.

The legal system is far from being a good guidence of morality. I'd suggest you avoid that line of argument - it's terrible, and you won't get anywhere with it.

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

In some cultures you become a man as soon as you are able to hunt and kill an animal to provide for your tribe...

Firstly: are you in a tribe that desperately needs food? Vegans would probably have less of an issue with this type of consumption of animal products. Mainly because hunting requires you killing an animal that has been out in the wild and hasn't been kept in a cage, force fed food or injected with various hormones to increase its growth. These are incredibly niche cultures and account for an insignificant amount of the current consumption of meat. Most people go to a store, see the meat packaged, pick it up, hand over cash and go home - I don't remember the last time I saw a Zulu at Walmart.

[Struggle4Bucks]

Originally Posted by Arnox

Not quite. I can see no logical issue with it being spectrumized based on a level of sentience (or, more importantly, ability to feel pain). For example, bacteria has no concept of pain, so you can use cleaning products just fine. A vegan might argue that torturing an ant is probably better than a dog.

The Taste Argument: "I love the way meat tastes. I wont deprive myself of this. Therefore, I should be able to eat meat."

Objection: "Think about what it would sound like to argue as follows: "I like the way it sounds, when someone asks you why you're hitting infants on the head with a hammer. There's nothing quite like that sound, and I really like it (and maybe add tradition in here), so I don't see why I should give it up

You can go on forever: I like the way i can play a song on the piano... there's nothing quite like that sound, and i really like it. so i don't see why i should give it up. Should we ban piano's?

Maybe where it all went wrong is where someone wants to make us believe that we actually need valid arguments to eat meat.

Not everyone thinks that the level of sentience of animals makes it rejectable to cage, kill and eat it. Adjudge same values to animals as a universal objective moral and make an analogy based on it makes the conclussion that comes out of it a corrupted one.

Originally Posted by Arnox

Sure. But moral subjectivism doesn't mean that there aren't good arguments for why you should follow one set of practices in life. Also, I'd probably find some VERY inconsistent logic with anyone's framework of morality if they consume animal products. Most people don't think about it, because it's an inconvenient fact about the nature of living: things feel pain, but they're too lazy to change.

Yes but some people just don't have the same empatic feelings for some animals as they have for humans. And some people seem to have more empatic feelings for animals then for humans.

Originally Posted by Arnox

The legal system is far from being a good guidence of morality. I'd suggest you avoid that line of argument - it's terrible, and you won't get anywhere with it.

It was not an argument... I'm not saying the legality of eating meat is an argument for eating meat. It was about not feeling guilty when not FEELING guilty. Some people are trying to make carnivores feel quilty, with for example, using corrupted arguments. They call it often ignorance but don't seem to understand that most people just don't have the same empathic feelings for animals as they do.

Originally Posted by Arnox

Firstly: are you in a tribe that desperately needs food? Vegans would probably have less of an issue with this type of consumption of animal products. Mainly because hunting requires you killing an animal that has been out in the wild and hasn't been kept in a cage, force fed food or injected with various hormones to increase its growth. These are incredibly niche cultures and account for an insignificant amount of the current consumption of meat. Most people go to a store, see the meat packaged, pick it up, hand over cash and go home - I don't remember the last time I saw a Zulu at Walmart.

Regarding to my tribe story... it was not an argument neither... it was not like: Zulu's eat meat so that is the argument for "it is ok to eat meat". What i was trying to say: mankind has become pussy and are now putting clothes on little cute dogs, carrying them around in gucci bags and treating them as humans. We can't go running after animals any longer. There are too many of us so we had to upscale things so we grow animals in cages... yes we do... Some people cry about it and want to humanize everything, others think it's ok.

[XXXtrailers]

[bhutocracy]

A pretty good argument for eating meat is that it's basically proven vegans etc in practice can't sustain B12 levels. There is just too much "doing it wrong".

In a darwinist way our food animals are actually succeeding beyond belief to become the most successful species on the planet ever, it's not a bad faustian pact as a species.

There isn't a lot of pain involved in free range animals being humanely slaughtered. Fuck we kill our animals better than we kill our humans. Granny Baggins has to die slowly in pain over 6 months from bowel cancer but billy the goat gets a bolt through the brain. Go billy.

I don't really see any ethical issues with food production so long as the animals are free range, grass (or otherwise) fed and humanely killed, they're generally winning over their wild counterparts and outperforming in a context of most other species getting nearer and nearer extinction.

[ManicaMark]

A meal just isn't a meal without meat!!
Also, another argument to eat meat is, we humans have certain enzymes, acids and other digestive juices specifically there in our stomachs to break down animal fats, acids and proteins. That's it!! That is the only function they have.
Surely this speaks volumes in the 'eat meat' debate??

[Arnox]

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

A pretty good argument for eating meat is that it's basically proven vegans etc in practice can't sustain B12 levels. There is just too much "doing it wrong".

Good argument, if only this didn't exist:

http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=3774741

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

There isn't a lot of pain involved in free range animals being humanely slaughtered. Fuck we kill our animals better than we kill our humans. Granny Baggins has to die slowly in pain over 6 months from bowel cancer but billy the goat gets a bolt through the brain. Go billy.

Free range is better than factory farmed, yes. I agree.

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

I don't really see any ethical issues with food production so long as the animals are free range, grass (or otherwise) fed and humanely killed, they're generally winning over their wild counterparts and outperforming in a context of most other species getting nearer and nearer extinction.

There is a good amount of evidence to suggest that when an animal is in a line of 50 others to be slaughtered, they understand that they're next. You have to understand that when animals are produced as part of a business venture, they are killed in the most efficient way possible. Lowered costs are the ultimate goal: the welfare of the animal isn't always something they care for.

Another strong argument is simply the fact that the food demands we'll experience in the coming 100 years will require so much land for the production of animals. It requires 10 pounds of feed to produce 1 pound of flesh: that isn't efficient, and it won't be sustainable.

Cows also fart, a lot. They contribute to global warming on a very noticeable level.

It's okay to say "I eat meat because I like the taste and I don't give a shit", but to try and give valid arguments and defend it with any other form of reason is just pointless. Veganism is pretty much impossible to argue against when defended correctly.

Originally Posted by ManicaMark

A meal just isn't a meal without meat!!
Also, another argument to eat meat is, we humans have certain enzymes, acids and other digestive juices specifically there in our stomachs to break down animal fats, acids and proteins. That's it!! That is the only function they have.
Surely this speaks volumes in the 'eat meat' debate??

We have systems in our body to help us fight off viruses and diseases: should we do our best to contract these as much as we can so that their purpose isn't wasted? Also, merely because we have eaten meat as part of our evolution does not mean that we should continue to do so. This is known as the naturalistic fallacy. Because it is natural does not mean that it is good. For instance - cancer is pretty natural, but quite unpleasant. Man made vaccines on the other hand? Wonderful things.

[Markul]

I have decided that for the next 3 days I will only eat meat. Thanks! :D

[k0nr4d]

I can't tell if the person writing this is anti-meat or pro-cannabalism?

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by Arnox

A lot of people would consider this analogy to be a perfectly sound example of why 'it's a choice' doesn't really matter.

A lot of people who abstain from the consumption of animal products would argue that using Android or Apple applications doesn't cause harm to others, so you are free to do as you wish. Whereas they would argue that your choice in diet causes direct harm to animals, so you should avoid using a line of argument that depends on personal preference.

As demonstrated in the analogy, keeping slaves causes direct harm to others, and you would likely abstain from that practice because you know this. Those that don?t eat meat would claim that you should similarly abstain from a practice where you cause direct harm to non-human animals.

Your choice in occupation causes direct and indirect harm to people, there's no denying that pornography hurts some people yet you choose to make your living selling porn.

[Mutt]

[brentbacardi]

Originally Posted by Arnox

Veganism is pretty much impossible to argue against when defended correctly.

Since I started eating a diet of about 75% meat, 15% eggs/dairy, 10% Vegatables/Oats. I have more energy, generally feel better, lost a bunch of flab, and increased my libido very noticeably. So I think eating meat is obviously much healthier, how do you defend against that?

Also, you cannot argue something with morals, morals are completely meaningless in terms of logic.

Originally Posted by Arnox

Cows also fart, a lot.

This is the ONE POINT that won me over and made me a vegetarian!

You do realize if we didn't kill the cows, they would then be alive to continue farting...

[bhutocracy]

Originally Posted by Arnox

Good argument, if only this didn't exist:

http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=3774741

Swing and a miss! The argument encapsulates the fact that exists. The problem isn't that in a perfect world everyone would take b12 supplements or injections, it's that in the really real world that doesn't happen and in reality b12 deficiency is a big problem. If we could all get along, there would be no war, if we could all be nice there wouldn't be rapes, if vegans and vegetarians could properly supplement their diet they wouldn't be disproportionally b12 deficient.

Originally Posted by Arnox

There is a good amount of evidence to suggest that when an animal is in a line of 50 others to be slaughtered, they understand that they're next. You have to understand that when animals are produced as part of a business venture, they are killed in the most efficient way possible. Lowered costs are the ultimate goal: the welfare of the animal isn't always something they care for.

Personally I can't really see that much of an issue in whether a cow understands they're going to die some moments before it happens. In the wild this would be similar to a predator presence response and this would be vastly more humane at that. However I'd need to see the actual studies involved before I gave them ANY credence in the first place before I thought it was even the start of a potential problem.

Originally Posted by Arnox

Another strong argument is simply the fact that the food demands we'll experience in the coming 100 years will require so much land for the production of animals. It requires 10 pounds of feed to produce 1 pound of flesh: that isn't efficient, and it won't be sustainable.

I don't really see this as any kind of argument, just a description of a potential or likely market force. Any inefficiency in meat production just translates into a higher cost for the end product, people will just eat less of it which is probably a good thing overall as you don't need a steak every night. Also it completely ignores the large tracts of land that are not suitable to vegetable farming but whilst arid and sparse, support grazing animals.

Originally Posted by Arnox

Cows also fart, a lot. They contribute to global warming on a very noticeable level.

I don't believe they will ever form a meaningful impact. I think issues like peak oil will largely mitigate climate change before we get around to doing too much about it and as long as the carbon effects are priced in I don't see the issue.

Originally Posted by Arnox

It's okay to say "I eat meat because I like the taste and I don't give a shit", but to try and give valid arguments and defend it with any other form of reason is just pointless. Veganism is pretty much impossible to argue against when defended correctly.

You haven't actually shown there is anything that needs defense yet, I don't believe there are many arguments that prove there is anything wrong with eating meat, just some arguments that show veganism is almost as valid a choice in a perfect world and highlight some largely economic differences.

It's sort of like a victorian arguing for marital sex. Yes it can largely be done if that's what you prefer, but you've started from the proposition that masturbation is bad and why you don't need it to justify an irrational lifestyle choice largely based on a specific morality.

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

and several counterarguments

http://www.mesacc.edu/~davpy35701/text/meatarg.html

Powerful and logical

[bhutocracy]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

I can't tell if the person writing this is anti-meat or pro-cannabalism?

I think they largely ignore the health and bioamplification issues of cannibalism. Eating humans isn't likely to be healthy given our long lifespans and apex consumption habits. In the same way that sardines have lower levels of toxins than marlin pound for pound as the marlin has to eat the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of sardines over it's life we are simialrly contaminated. Also given our genetic sameness virii, bacteria, parasites and prions are more likely to be present and effective in the food chain. It's why even consensual cannibalism in some tribal cultures led to BSE variants - not that I have any moral issues with them practicing it. A billion catholics "do" every mass.

[nin]

Eating meat is natural from the very begining. Everything else appears because somone has just nothing to do. I have 2 old grannies always sitting near the house - you wount belive how many things they can say about meet or drinks or cigs etc... Just go and work and good luck in the biz!

[dyna mo]

mother nature doesn't give 2 shits about what/who eats meat.

[Arnox]

Originally Posted by brentbacardi

Since I started eating a diet of about 75% meat, 15% eggs/dairy, 10% Vegatables/Oats. I have more energy, generally feel better, lost a bunch of flab, and increased my libido very noticeably. So I think eating meat is obviously much healthier, how do you defend against that?

Firstly, any diet with correct calorie content will result in you have a healthy lifestyle. I'm not saying that eating meat is unhealthy, I'm saying that eating meat is unethical. These are two very different things.

Also, you haven't compared this to anything. Have you tried a vegan diet? Have you been open to the idea that it's possible to be healthy without needing meat? I'm sure there are plenty of healthy people that have animal products in their diet, although I can give you great examples of people that abstain from animal products and are still very healthy. Extremely healthy, in fact.



He runs 15 miles to work and 15 miles home every day. He has one of the fastest times over 100 miles and he has an extreme version of veganism - one that only utilizes fruits and vegetables. What I'm saying here is that it's more than possible to be healthy with meat in your diet, but it's also more than possible to be healthy without meat in your diet.

Originally Posted by brentbacardi

Also, you cannot argue something with morals, morals are completely meaningless in terms of logic.

I don't think you quite understand what I mean here. A logical argument for morality is certainly possible. For instance:

1. I believe that any sound action is one that produces more good than harm
2. I believe that the consumption of animal products produces more harm than good
3. Therefore, I abstain from animal products

It's very easy to use a system of logic to explain your moral philosophy. But you are correct in saying that there is no ultimate 'proof' of what is good. You have to ascribe a desire initially: mine just happens to be happiness (utilitarianism). It's convenient, as anything I desire will always have better outcomes than sadness.

Originally Posted by brentbacardi

You do realize if we didn't kill the cows, they would then be alive to continue farting...

We kill billions of cattle per year that have been specifically bred and raised to be used as food. There was perhaps 0.1% of the current livestock population 1,000 years ago - poor argument, as we raise billions of new animals every year purely to be eaten. Again, a poor argument when you've created the demand for the animal. Their population is entirely dependent on the fact that we demand that much livestock.

Originally Posted by Mutt

Your choice in occupation causes direct and indirect harm to people, there's no denying that pornography hurts some people yet you choose to make your living selling porn.

If you could give me a little more information as to how my work has produced harm, I could give you an argument as to how I would justify it. That, or resign instantly from my position as warlord chief esquire of X Copywriters.

[dyna mo]

mother nature doesn't give 2 shits about ethics.

[Matyko]

I was eating was less meat than an average person and since the beginning of this October I went vegetarian. I still eat milk products and eggs [only bio stuff from specific source no 'general' shit] so no vegan here, but who knows what the future brings..

I do this not because of I dislike meat, but because of I am a fucking hippie and disagree with humanity eating so much meat.

http://www.themeatrix.com/

Have you ever seen this?

[wehateporn]

Do you eat Quorn? I've been a veggie approx 6 years so far

Originally Posted by Matyko

I was eating was less meat than an average person and since the beginning of this October I went vegetarian. I still eat milk products and eggs [only bio stuff from specific source no 'general' shit] so no vegan here, but who knows what the future brings..

I do this not because of I dislike meat, but because of I am a fucking hippie and disagree with humanity eating so much meat.

http://www.themeatrix.com/

Have you ever seen this?

[brentbacardi]

Originally Posted by Arnox

But you are correct in saying that there is no ultimate 'proof' of what is good.

How does that lead to...

Originally Posted by Arnox

Veganism is pretty much impossible to argue against when defended correctly.

I have not heard one proven fact why someone should be a vegan.

Originally Posted by Arnox

We kill billions of cattle per year that have been specifically bred and raised to be used as food. There was perhaps 0.1% of the current livestock population 1,000 years ago - poor argument, as we raise billions of new animals every year purely to be eaten. Again, a poor argument when you've created the demand for the animal. Their population is entirely dependent on the fact that we demand that much livestock.

My response was a joke, sorry for the confusion.

[Oracle Porn]

should I feed my dog only veggies as well?

[Matyko]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

Do you eat Quorn? I've been a veggie approx 6 years so far

I had to google it to find out wtf
Kinda sad to read the posts of hardcore meat fanatics.
We have the teeth for it.. LOL.

Honestly, I grew up in a metropolis, I had meat and potato for every fucking sunday family lunch, and it is kinda hard for me to turn into a vegetarian.. But I am on it. I feel cleaner and healthier already, I feel younger and can fuck longer and with 'better quality' since I take care of my diet, etc.. I did not want to do any radical, so I just changed the approach to food long time ago and It Works [for me].

I have no problems with meat-eaters, it's their choice. However I would suggest to stay away from the cheapest meat-products and eat less, but better quality meat from reliable source. So instead of eating caged chicken and caged chicken's eggs go for the chicken who is running all day long in the old lady's garden. If you do so you are not just consuming better quality stuff but you make steps towards fair trade.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by winter_

just because someone eats meat doesn't mean they won't also eat vegetables and vegetable soy products, i did. the problem is they ain't cheap and you don't really get much for your money compared to meat sausage and meat patties ecetera. i dieted pretty hard throughout most of last year and lost about 35kg because of it, vegetables and vegetable imitation helped me get there.

meat doesn't make you fat, sugar does...

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Matyko

I had to google it to find out wtf
Kinda sad to read the posts of hardcore meat fanatics.
We have the teeth for it.. LOL.

Honestly, I grew up in a metropolis, I had meat and potato for every fucking sunday family lunch, and it is kinda hard for me to turn into a vegetarian.. But I am on it. I feel cleaner and healthier already, I feel younger and can fuck longer and with 'better quality' since I take care of my diet, etc.. I did not want to do any radical, so I just changed the approach to food long time ago and It Works [for me].

I have no problems with meat-eaters, it's their choice. However I would suggest to stay away from the cheapest meat-products and eat less, but better quality meat from reliable source. So instead of eating caged chicken and caged chicken's eggs go for the chicken who is running all day long in the old lady's garden. If you do so you are not just consuming better quality stuff but you make steps towards fair trade.

its not healthier, its in your head... It's actually unhealthy to avoid meats because you become nutrient deficient, it is impossible to replace it completely without being deficient. If you stopped eating sugars that would do more good than avoiding meat ever will.

[Matyko]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

its not healthier, its in your head... It's actually unhealthy to avoid meats because you become nutrient deficient, it is impossible to replace it completely without being deficient. If you stopped eating sugars that would do more good than avoiding meat ever will.

I think you are not right, processing meat is a heavy task for your body.

Obviously the first and most important two decisions about my diet was to reduce sugar consuming and get rid of wheat flour products.

Millions are living a healthy and happy life w-o eating Any meat, I am not afraid of any bad effects. However I am taking care of providing vitamins and such stuff which my body might lack because of the lack of meat. After more than 2 weeks I can say I haven't even noticed I made such a 'big change' in my diet.

[Oracle Porn]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

its not healthier, its in your head... It's actually unhealthy to avoid meats because you become nutrient deficient, it is impossible to replace it completely without being deficient. If you stopped eating sugars that would do more good than avoiding meat ever will.

although you got the first part right (where it's in his head)

you can't stop eatting sugar completely. sugar is an essential part of your daily diet, in moderation. the problem is most people overdo.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_sugar_e...l_part_of_diet

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Matyko

I think you are not right, processing meat is a heavy task for your body.

Obviously the first and most important two decisions about my diet was to reduce sugar consuming and get rid of wheat flour products.

Millions are living a healthy and happy life w-o eating Any meat, I am not afraid of any bad effects. However I am taking care of providing vitamins and such stuff which my body might lack because of the lack of meat. After more than 2 weeks I can say I haven't even noticed I made such a 'big change' in my diet.

if your diet requires supplements it is not a balanced diet.

[_Richard_]

[AnimeFevers]

Just had 2 steaks

[Rochard]

I am on the very top of the food chain. Thus, I eat meat.

And I have no regrets.

[dyna mo]

i have a fun gift en route to me right now- a meat grinder. gonna grind steaks for football sunday hamburgs

[Matyko]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

if your diet requires supplements it is not a balanced diet.

I am absolutely not saying I am eating vitamin pills to balance my diet

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Matyko

I am absolutely not saying I am eating vitamin pills to balance my diet

and i am absolutely not saying you are. what i am saying is that you having to compensate for a lack of nutrients that meat provides by adding *supplemental* sources, extra portions, etc. to make up for that is not how a balanced diet is supposed to be balanced.

[Best-In-BC]

What a extremely poor logical load of crap