stevecos

I think we should throw them all out and start over.
Republican or Democrat dosnt matter this country is fucked up.
gotoquiz.com/republican_or_democrat_1

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Robbie

Can I get an Amen?
AMEN!!!

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

crockett

I' live in a bubble but you still can't lay any blame to the Republicans in Congress and its all Obamas fault because he can't make them do what he wants.. I guess you probably blame Obama as well for the loss of our triple A credit rating the last time Republicans in congress played this same game..

Gee thanks Obama.. Guess he should of been a dictator so he'd be able to tell everyone what to do..

stevecos

I think Obama care should be the law just to teach the idiots a lesson when they have to buy heath insurance and show proof on their tax return That will be a great day 8-10 grand a year for a policy through an exchange.

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Vendzilla

Yeah Reagan loved the Contra's. Gutless? Hardly, he didn't put down a red line

Amen!!!!!!!

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Robbie

As I've said many times before...they are ALL crooks.

Every once in a while the things that benefit THEM just happen to coincide with benefiting a portion of the American people.

Just as ObamaCare is bending over backwards and handing the Democrats moneymen of the Insurance, Medical, and Pharma corporations THE biggest customer base that they could ever have dreamed of...all with NO lowering of prices for their services...
I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Republicans opposing it are doing so on behalf of their own money men.

But...having said that, the people who elected those Republicans did so on the promise that they would stop ObamaCare.
So in this instance...as crooked Republicans line their pockets...it just so happens that it happily coincided with the "will of the people".

Do I think any of those Republicans actually give a shit about you or me?
HELL NO.

Do I think that Obama or any of the Democrats actually give a shit about you or me?
HELL NO.

It was a party line vote.
Not one Senator or Congressman thinking for themselves.

They are ALL just doing the bidding of the people lining their greedy pockets.

You better be glad that I'm not President Robbie.
We would have "Robbie Care" being shoved down your throat just like ObamaCare. And whoever paid me and made sure that me and my family are set for life....would get whatever they wanted too.

We should vote them all out. And after this...one term and DONE for everyone.

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Dvae

Obama did not draw a "line in the sand" the world did.
Once again you have been misinformed.

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tony286

For someone who doesnt care or trust either party ,you lick gop ass pretty hard. lol

Robbie

That's pretty rude.

So because I think that ObamaCare does not address the fact that we are overcharged for medical care in the U.S. and instead is a nice big gift to the Insurance, Medical, and Big Pharma corporations...then I "lick gop ass"

I'm sorry...I forgot the rule of the Democrat Party: There is no tolerance for anyone who disagrees.

I guess you should also say that the Democrat Senate "licks gop ass" too since they gave themselves a subsidy to offset ObamaCare (and also to their families and their hundreds of staff members).

And I guess you could say that Pres. Obama "licks gop ass" since he put a delay on Big Business for ObamaCare...but NOT for us citizens.

Or the Unions...I guess they "lick gop ass" since they are trying to get exempted as well.

I also guess that Dem. Harry Reid and Max Baucus "lick gop ass" because they were quoted saying that the implementation of ObamaCare is a "train wreck".

You should really remove your political blinders and stop following the Pres. like he's your girlfriend.
He's nothing more than a crooked lifetime politician who is now filthy rich beyond anything that you or I will ever know.

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SuckOnThis

Who is it that is paying Obama off and making him set for life? Now there's a scandal that would have some teeth, to bad it doesnt exist.

bronco67

You've expressed your opinion over and over about being politically neutral ...but something about your comments is screaming "conservative". You can just admit you're a Republican. Be proud of it.

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tony286

Im sorry if I offended you.I've criticized him many many times,my posts do show that.

noshit

Embarrassing are those that are embarrassed by it. I doubt it's strictly Rebloodlicans.

Robbie

If you don't know that I'm as far from "Conservative" as a person could possibly be by now, then you aren't paying attention.

I'm for FREEDOM. That's all. As much freedom as I can possibly get. And the less that other people are telling me how to run my life...the better.

Again though...none of you sheeples are paying attention to what these politicians are doing to you. You're too busy playing "republican" vs. "democrat"

And why aren't YOU addressing what I brought up about the House and Senate giving themselves a nice subsidy (at taxpayer expense of course) to supplement their "ObamaCare"
Neither you or I get that.

And what about the Reid and Bacus quote?

Jesus...you guys are so fucking lame.

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winter_

most socialists annoy me. socialists of obama believe they are always right, they lie, cheat, steal, interfere... murder. the world is waiting for the new republican, a more left leaning republican, and it may not happen for another eight years.

Minte

A rock & roller in the porn business...For some reason I am NOT seeing you as the posterboy for conservatism.

And my opinion, Obamacare as it is will fail badly. I see it in my own business. We have always offered health insurance. The company pays 70% of the cost, which by todays standards is more than most companies pay. Yet, only 30% of our employees take it.

The family plan is $1400 a month. We pay $840 of that cost, leaving the employee to pay $560. Average weekly take home for factory jobs is $400 a week after taxes and ssn. You can do the math and see the problem. And our insurance isn't very good anymore. $1000 deductible, copay...$20 drug card.
I think people realize that it's easier to just not get sick. And if they have to go to the doctor they pay cash or work out a payment schedule.

Insurance companies aren't dumb, they know the statistics, and those are that the large majority of workers will never need serious medical attention. In the last 10 years on the job our numbers support that. I can think offhand of 2, a heart attack and a kidney issue. Out of hundreds of people.

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crockett

Robbie you are expecting everything Obama does to be perfect. This is the first successful try to bring health care to just about everyone. It's not going to be perfect, they will have to work the kinks out over time.

You want them to address the prices of insurance, but do you think for even one nano second, that republicans would go along with that? They would cry about the so called free market and that the govt shouldn't fix prices because that's not the cronyism that they all love so much. I'm sure once things go live the prices will be addressed if its a problem. The simple fact is, if prices go up the people won't pay it. So far what I've seen is that prices will go down. The big scary scary about high prices is coming from the right not the experts.

Lastly, you keep excusing what the right is doing with the obstructionism as A Ok, because they were voted into office to do away with Obamacare. Well that's fine and dandy, but what about everything else they have blocked? This has been one of if not the least productive congresses this country has ever had. I'm sorry but you can't just excuse that away because thy hate Americans heaving access to health insurance.

Also just as you say these Republicans were all voted into office to get rid of Health care for the tax payers of this country, well Obama was voted in partly on the promise of providing that health care system.

crockett

I'm not sure how close Obamacare ended up being to the Healthcare system that is in MA, but I can tell you as some one that is living in MA the plan the state offers is way better and about 1/4 the cost of what I'm paying now with Humana. When I first moved up here I had to go on the state system before I got my own insurance. I was paying around $60/month and had everything I have now, except dental.

With my own insurance, I'm over $300/month.. I'd go back to the states insurance in a heart beat if they would let me. It was actually pretty good.

With your example, of your factory workers not taking the insurance as the majority, well that's because $400/week take home is not very much money. Paying insurance or not paying it, that's just not a lot to live on at today's prices.

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Barefootsies

Agreed. However, that will depend on the age of your work force.

I am 40 now, and I have only been in the hospital for anything a couple of times in all of these years. The reason for being there could have been easily enough avoiding by myself making better life choices at the time. That said, those ER visits cost me around $5000.00 which at the time I just paid out of pocket. I had an out patience procedure and that was in the same ballpark. If you can save and have some money, then it's a hardship, but not catastrophic by any means.

As I get older, you have a risk of having something happen where you are hospitalized for a week or more depending on the condition. You run the risk of having to take pills for some illness or issue even.

I can tell you that my allergy medicine savings alone pay for my healthcare coverage for the month. While I do not argue that their prices are off the hook. Without insurance, it would cost me a hell of a lot more that coverage alone.

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"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Barefootsies

Agreed.



Obamacare is a version 1.0 of universal healthcare in this country. It's not going to be perfect, especially when you have the U.S. government involved. They should have just expanded the coverage that military/congressmen have and there you go.

Or they could have regulated that insurance companies need to use 90% of their premiums for claims and members. Stopping the insane spending on advertising (Geico), golden parachutes for execs, and whatever else the for-profit healthcare industry is wasting their insurers money on.

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Minte

Obamacare will end up simply being another tax on the masses. That 70% nonparticipation won't change. Our plan is to give our employees a 1% x-mas bonus so they can pay the tax. I don't know what the average payrate is for Americans, but I know that in the Midwest a job for over $12 an hour is considered good. Retail jobs pay $10, agricultural under $10 THe average hourly in our company is about $15 and as I said, 70% won't take it.

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Mutt

And when one of these workers of yours has a child who gets sick and needs surgery and a lengthy hospitalization and the medical bills add up to $100,000 who pays that bill? You know it's impossible for a person making $400 a week to save a thing.

As a conservative what's your answer to that? If you're a true conservative you'll say the hospital should turn the child away and let nature take its' course. I doubt you're that hard hearted - so who pays for the expensive medical treatment? Even if this worker could afford to pay $200 a month towards the bill - that's $2400 a year, even without interest that's 41.6 years to pay for one family member's illness. Meanwhile the family's income is going to stay the same and if it's one of those unlucky families another couple of costly health emergencies crop up before the kids are grown up. When the kids are grown up this worker is going to be near retirement, both him and his wife have a good chance at needing treatment for conditions and illnesses that people get as they age, and that includes people who take fairly good care of themselves. What this couple is going to retire on isn't much. So when this worker has a heart attack at 60 and needs bypass surgery where is the money to pay another $100,000 for that?

Conservatives are as blind as liberals. The answer as a society is to take on the entire healthcare industry and tell them that healthcare isn't like any other industry, you get rid of the middlemen, and you put wage and price controls on those who work in and service the industry. People who go into healthcare will understand, they want to help people don't they? I think a specialist who makes 1 million a year could get by on 500-700K.

Medical industry is the tail wagging the dog.

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Mutt

Take a look at how the medical industry works when the government and the insurance scumbags aren't involved - the business of elective cosmetic surgery. Somebody wants new boobs, they go shopping for doctors and they find a wide disparity in prices for the same procedure, one doctor charges $18,000, he's got the luxury offices and the big name medical school degree, another doctor charges $3,000. The insurance companies, the hospitals and doctors massively inflate the costs of medical treatment.

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tony286

I read an interesting thing. When you really think about it, the GOP doesnt think Obamacare will be this huge failure. They think its going to work thats why they are trying so hard to stop it.
If its this huge failure they keep saying its going to be, really why stop it? They let go forward, its awful. Another democratic isnt elected to office for the next 30 yrs.

crockett

Midwest is about same as FL then on pay. Here in New England I'd say average is closer to $17 or so at a factory/warehouse type job. That's assuming they are company employees and not temps of course. I know the son of one of my friends just got a entry level position at a machine shop for $30k a year. One of the big distribution centers is always advertising $40k/year for their warehouse workers and there is a Frito Lay package plant that pays their temps $19/hr and their permant employees start at $20 something/hr.

That was all kind of a shocker to me when I moved up here after knowing how low wages were in FL. TBH it was one of the main reasons I alway had my own business, because there was no way I was going to work for someone else for $10/hr and get no insurance or anything else, which is very common in FL.

bronco67

I don't know if you were aware of this, but part of its main focus is to lower healthcare costs overall. Why would you think a democratic president's healthcare reform is about making insurance companies richer? That's what a Republican would do. The Cleveland Clinic story is a good example of this, although the conservatives have spun a narrative that says Obamacare killed jobs.

But you seem to think there's no difference between the sides. That seems like more of a mantra you keep repeating to yourself, but it's pretty far from the truth. There's a huge difference in the parties, as evidenced by everything we've been watching unfold in the last couple of years. You have one idealogy based in selfishness, bigotry and lack of compassion -- and then the other side who basically wants the opposite.

You're painting all politicians with a big broad stroke that says they're all crooks. So there's guys on both sides who are in it for the money, but that doesn't make the entire game a fraud. There's people with ideas trying to get things done, and another side who wants to make sure rich people can get all the breaks they can get, and fuck everyone else. They're either going to find a way to be more appealing to the general public, instead of rich people and southern racists -- or die a political death, and always be the whining baby trying to throw a monkey wrench into everything.

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crockett

This is the way I see it as well. I don't by any means think democrats are perfect, but they are the best choice when it comes to fairness to all tax payers.

When you listen to the Right it's always me,me,me.. I got mine fuck you. To me the most amazing part is how the right has managed to convince the bulk of their voting block, to vote against their own interest.

Sure I can get that someone making $150k a year or more would vote for less taxes. Totally understandable, but the bulk of the Rights voting block is not making $150k a year or even close. Back when I was in FL it was so freaking common to see some redneck trailer trash that was on welfare complaining about democrats giving people hands out.. Or someone making $20k a year voting for Republicans because they think they will pay less taxes.. It's like umm hello I'm going to slap you for being so fucking uninformed.

I'm actually going back to FL for a few months and honestly I really dread it. That state is like seeing vultures waiting for the cow to die. Everywhere you go it's fast cash payday loans, pawn shops, buy here pay here car lots , churches and gun stores. In Daytona there was even a place called "rent a wheel" that was like the furniture chain rent a center but for fucking car wheels.

Minte

If I could answer all the questions you pose, I would. I know that it's all a matter of statistics and the large majority of people will never use the insurance.

When a child gets sick, what happens here often is that the community does what it can with fund raisers. Banks and businesses often contribute and at the end the hospital takes the writeoff, which is easier when you are making massive profits.

My comments about the inevitable failure of Obama care is only about the facts as I see them. 70% don't take it now in our group because it's not affordable. It's not going to get any more affordable. The government knows this so Obamacare is ultimately just another tax. The government forcing you to buy a product.

I am fiscal conservative..not a social one.

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Minte

That's ridiculous. It's not going to work. How can it? The premium cost is not going down. It's going up an average of 14% next year. The federal government is on the brink of insolvency. You go stand by your mailbox and wait for that Obamacare check to show up.

It's a tax...more tax on the people that can least afford to pay it.

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crockett

The thing is, the hospitals are playing a game with those write offs. They are half the blame as to why costs are so high.

The hospital will charge $100k for something, but the insurance company actually only pays like 30% of that cost. The hospitals charge a high price, so they can use the difference as a write off. The best part is the end user still pays the deductible on the full price not the hidden price that the insurance companies actually pay.

This is why hospitals always claim to be operating at a loss.. Its why Obama care cant fix everything in one go.. The whole system is a scam, but we have to start somewhere.

bronco67

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...te-shock-here/

My father-in-law, is an oral surgeon -- and he was crying about Obamacare when it was first conceived. He's gone on to say recently it hasn't been the business killing thing he was fearing. But then again, he gets all of his information from FoxNews, so what else was he initially supposed to think?

--and I'm not even trying to trumpet that Obamacare is some great thing. It just sucks to see it preached by the right as some Antichrist, when its not even close to true. I have my own insurance, and its great (my wife is a city employee), and I have zero interest in Obamacare for myself, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't get a chance for people who could use it. Republicans are trying to kill something that appears to be helpful for a lot of people, with no alternative of their own. They just want any kind of victory over Obama, and most of them are probably as misinformed as the general public, or don;t even care. It's all part of the their idiotic sideshow. Congress is a bunch of fucking clowns, and if it wasn't Obamacare, it'd be something else. Those warmongering asses weren't even going to vote for a obligatory US military strike on some overseas brown people. Since when are they pacifists?

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ThunderBalls

This is just plain ignorance. A majority of people will never use it? Do you understand that almost 1 in 2 people will now get cancer in their life? Not to mention diabetes is now considered an epidemic and just about every other major disease is increasing. Talk about living in a bubble.

You cannot be serious if you think this is how things work when a kid gets sick. Maybe you should go visit a childrens hospital and wake the fuck up.

bronco67

This is what Mitt Romney would say. Like that comment about how kids can just "take risk" or "borrow money from their parents" to ensure their economic futures, like everyone has that ability.

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ThunderBalls

And Obama ran on getting a health care law passed, and Romney ran on getting it appealed and lost. Yet your argument is the republicans are A OK for spending their time doing nothing but wasting time with this bullshit and Obama is the one "shoving it down our throats". You're a funny guy.

Mutt

Robbie when he's not posting libertarian crackpottery sometimes posts good information. He explained this same thing recently - something I really wasn't aware of. I've been hearing about this outrageous 100 dollar charges for aspirins type propaganda for decades and accepted it.

Anybody who isn't for giving the entire healthcare industry a giant enema is an idiot.

As far as the two parties being the same, this gets parroted on internet forum and news websites a thousand times a day. It's not true, it's the American political system that forces the two parties to negotiate everthing in a spirit of extreme bitterness that leads to both parties ending up doing things that they really don't stand for. IF the US was a parliamentary system where the party that wins the most seats in the legislature becomes the government and is pretty much unchecked in power for 5 years - Obama would have a single payer system and whatever else is in his socialist agenda. And the Republicans should they win a majority would do the same. More would get accomplished.
The problem is that once you give people something it's very hard if not impossible to take it away. So the Republicans couldn't get back into power and just blow up the single payer healthcare system.

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crockett

I have nothing at all agnst fiscal conservatives if such a magical unicorn actually existed with in the Republican Party.. How they don't exisit or if they do, they have zero power. It's a made up name like a random rock genre.

You can't tell me that there are any fiscal republicans when they are ok with the CIA, NSA and other random intel agencies are getting 52 billion dollars this year to spy on Americans yet we don't have enough money to pay for people to get $4.50 a day in food stamps under the farm bill, but yet under that same farm bill we have $7 billion in subsidies for the farm lobby's corporate sponsors.

Btw many of those same Republicans that voted against food stamps, go traveling around the world on tax payers dime and are given about $160/day for food cost.. Once again on the tax payers dime.

No we don't have fiscal republicans in our govt, we have irresponsible republicans.

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Minte

Air Force One airfare: $179,750 per hour.. you can buy a lot of foodstamps with that too.

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crockett

Well I think people claim they are all the same, mainly due to the fact they are all bought and paid for by lobbyist money. I think regardless of who's hat people wear, they all know deep down that their elected leaders really don't work for their good. Not unless you have money for the campaign to win a I owe you.

To me..
Republicans = I'm going to piss on you and tell you it's raining.
Democrats = I'm going to give you stuff but its going to cost you
libertarians = we don't need no stinking govt, we have magic and unicorns

Minte

I provide healthcare for our employees.. Always have.
I can't make them take it.

What's your solution for that?

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crockett

Obama didn't vote against the farm bill and the food stamps. You missed the point.

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Minte

Not really,, the point is that the federal government is almost bankrupt. In a few weeks they are going to vote AGAIN to BORROW more money.

How many more times can this happen? Obama and the democrats are perfectly aware that they are kicking the can down the road.
Yet they want to keep adding more debt. You are worried about healthcare for people that don't care about it either way. I am worried about what is going to happen when the rest of the world finally decides to stop lending the US any more money.

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Mutt

That's part of Obamacare - the uninsured are forced to buy insurance. if they don't, the government grabs it from them when they file income tax.

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SuckOnThis

Still pissed that he's not riding in the back of the bus?

Minte

That's a great plan, fine people for not having the money to buy something they can't afford.

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tony286

Do you really think Im receiving checks from the government or is that the catch phrase you were taught and dont know better to think for yourself? You are smart really think about it. if its as bad as they say and none of them voted for it. They will never lose an election again.
Also someone goes to the hospital because they cant afford health insure who do you think pays for it? WE do , you are paying a tax for the insured already. Also cant judge premiums because it doesnt start til next month. All those years before obama ive pay for my own health insurance it went up every year never got cheaper.

tony286

Thank you all modern presidents flew that way but he is supposed to fly coach. lol

crockett

They can't afford to take the insurance on what they are making. This isn't a dig at your company but you said they would need to pay $560/month out of roughly $400/week take home pay. That's just not affordable for them to do. It's not a choice of hey I don't need insurance, it's the same choice faced by most Americans. Pay rent, buy food or buy insurance.

If those same workers lived in MA, they would pay about $70/month for their insurance not $580. It's probably close to what they will pay once Obamacare is in effect. You are trying to compare Obamacare prices as if they will be the same as what is paid now, but the govt is subsidizing the difference if the employee doesn't make over X amount of dollars. Your employes will most likely fall in that category.

crockett

So why are you only hands in the air when it's democrats spending, but you never complain when it's republicans?

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tony286

no they voting on paying the debt they already have.

tony286

look up The Santa Claus theory its the republican game plan. Spend like a drunken sailor when in power and the scream about debt when not in power.If Mitt had won you would seen spending like never seen before and the story would of been .The mess we got is worse than we imagined we have to help the country.