affiliates contacting in icq/skype without read instructions, so common - GoFuckYourself.com

adultmobile · 07-20-2013, 10:33 AM

So the biggest trend I see while running a program, it is new affiliates contacting in icq/skype to ask generic things, all of which written in their accounts page, or even in the register form, for example this 5 minutes ago:

--------
newaffiliate: thanks for adding me....
newaffiliate: I registered on the tubecamgirl.com as affiliate but I don't understand whats suppose to be done
newaffiliate: could you please brief me...

tubecamsupp: there is an instructions page. in menu you see it?

newaffiliate: No

tubecamsupp: look "instructions"

newaffiliate: right I see it
newaffiliate: thanks, I now get it.
--------

This one was easy, but some start to ask a number of things (all of which was written in the register form, plus repeated inside the logged-in page), such as: what your payment methods? How much you pay for PPS? How much you pay per free join? What countries are good for free join?

Actually, I repeated these info in every page, from register to logged-in, I was thinking to even open popunders with such an info, but then I sort of figured, by interviewing a few of these guys, that they really just need friends, and/or want to see if anyone is actually replying the support, before to start sending traffic. The latter it is understandable: they fear the program is dead or unfriendly, then they contact them, and if there is a reply, they passed the "is alive" test. Rarely these guys send much traffic really anyway.

I also noticed another trend: whoever contacts to make very smart questions, it is most of the times a black hat fraudster and carder. They appear to have read all instructions, made some tests, and ask very fine details, basically trying to get to know how the system does fraud check. Most of the times, when these guys start to send signups, they made these themselves. Some are semi-smart as they make a real adult site or blog with links to our site, put this in http referer (so if you check it seems coming from a legit source), send thousands of trash hits which make no real signups (possibly a redirect from skimmed), then they go making the signups themselves in the mix, so signup ratio is not too good, http referer seems a real site, but they fail other things (which I do not explain here of course). When I go questioning the guy in his icq/skype, he vanishes, except very rare times they reply a time or two trying to understand how I found it was a fraud.

Statistically, those affiliates who send the most and best traffic with signups, are contacting not before to start sending traffic, but after made the first $100's. They will do very few medium-level questions, mostly related to pay options or delays.
So statistically affiliates contacting before to start sending the first hit, or those asking too much complicated stuff, are either waste of time or malicious.

Any thoughts?

signupdamnit · 07-20-2013, 10:45 AM

If I start doing well on a program I typically keep a very low profile and do everything I can to avoid contacting the sponsor or a rep. The main reason to be honest is that I am afraid the attention will just lead to the rep upping the shave on my account. If I contact a program it's usually over a payment issue.

I wouldn't go so far as to blow anyone off. Sometimes legitimate affiliates need to know the fine details such as exactly which countries count, how hits are counted, which payment methods are available for a given country. It depends on the circumstances and the methods the affiliate is using.

Some people are dumb but you might also view the people contacting you over things already answered as an indication that you need to present the information better on the site and make it more visible.

signupdamnit · 07-20-2013, 10:52 AM

You should consider a separate information page which is accessible prior to affiliate registration. Explain things a little more and show us some examples of the promo material which you have available. It's pretty basic right now and it's essentially just a wall of text. Break it up, add some bold headers and like I said show some examples of promo material you have for us. For most cam affiliates promo material is very important.

nexcom28 · 07-20-2013, 11:00 AM

I sent you a pm a while back. Still waiting for a reply.

Klen · 07-20-2013, 11:05 AM

I suggest you to put most common asked questions right on frontpage.Things like this happen beacuse not all sponsors put requied info to same place,so that causing people to think how such info is not avalaible when clicking on link which normaly shows that info on other sponsor site.

adultmobile · 07-20-2013, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexcom28

I sent you a pm a while back. Still waiting for a reply.

Fascinating, I had a number of those "PM" waiting in GFY, I am going to reply everyone, sorry.

adultmobile · 07-20-2013, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

just a wall of text.

Yes this is why only hackers read it

nexcom28 · 07-20-2013, 01:28 PM

Hope so, it was about promoting your program after all. If you can't find it let me know if you want.

deltav · 07-20-2013, 01:56 PM

This is why I think the "anyone can sign up" standard for affiliate programs the past 10+ years is stupid - your brand gets promoted by idiots with no business or marketing savvy, who then do the throw enough shit at the wall & some will stick approach and spam the world with your content.

It becomes the norm in the industry and then online adult becomes synonymous with crap spam sites, the world becomes saturated with all the porn anyone could want, that's just the nature of the free-for-all affiliate system. Even with mainstream afffiliate marketing it's the same. There should be a vetting process - it may have meant sacrificing a few near future sales from those volume-marketing affiliates who wouldn't end up making the cut, but IMO would have been better for the industry in the long term. Too late now tho.

signupdamnit · 07-20-2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltav

This is why I think the "anyone can sign up" standard for affiliate programs the past 10+ years is stupid - your brand gets promoted by idiots with no business or marketing savvy, who then do the throw enough shit at the wall & some will stick approach and spam the world with your content.

It becomes the norm in the industry and then online adult becomes synonymous with crap spam sites, the world becomes saturated with all the porn anyone could want, that's just the nature of the free-for-all affiliate system. Even with mainstream afffiliate marketing it's the same. There should be a vetting process - it may have meant sacrificing a few near future sales from those volume-marketing affiliates who wouldn't end up making the cut, but IMO would have been better for the industry in the long term. Too late now tho.

The problem with this is really it just doesn't match reality. Content saturation today is definitely not usually due to clueless affiliates. It's tubes, forums, and file lockers. In many cases the sponsor themselves put the clips up there. In one program which recently shut down I noticed a big tube had the #1 spot in Google for their paysite name (the actual site was #2) and tube with the #1 spot looked to have what appeared to be 300 five minute clips submitted by the sponsor. This is actually fairly typical as programs try to move "in house" not realizing that they are only shooting themselves in the foot. First they fail to realize that in doing this it will cause the collapse of the affiliate ratios and the affiliates will move on. Second they fail to see that in the long term it's probably going to destroy their type-in ratios. Then they are out of business when costs exceed profits.

To say that some affiliate putting up 20 1 minute clips which you gave them is saturating your content when there are tubes out there with every full scene of yours (not you personally) only shows further what some sponsors think of affiliates these days and why it's a bad move to depend on the model. Affiliates have turned into the whipping boy who gets no respect and is always to blame. It's no wonder they are an endangered species in adult as they move on to other things.

As for business or marketing savvy it's really quite numerous considering what this industry has done to itself. And that's mainly been from the top-down. Short term greed, ignorance and stupid. Grab all the money you can and get out was pretty much the name of the game. Really. I know you don't like to do it but spend some time reading some history on here. It's crazy all the people who have come and gone and what happens over and over again. This is very little business savvy here. The industry has a history of frat boys with hookers and blow being in charge. Most of them left after they did all the damage leaving us to deal with it. A few of them stick around still to play the king. That's kind of the whole problem.

adultmobile · 07-20-2013, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltav

This is why I think the "anyone can sign up" standard for affiliate programs the past 10+ years is stupid - your brand gets promoted by idiots with no business or marketing savvy, who then do the throw enough shit at the wall & some will stick approach and spam the world with your content.
It becomes the norm in the industry and then online adult becomes synonymous with crap spam sites

I was around well before 10 years ago, the adult site guys was not less spammy, but more

I remember "dialers" in late 1990's hijacking analogic modems to disconnect your ISP then call satellite lines costing $10 a minute, some friends of mine banked a fortune with that. I never been into that, and banked less money.
Where the biggest adult program owners comes from? Leo of myfreecams was a famous spammer until 2002 (10+ years ago...), sued by Microsoft+Amazon:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/...onphishpr.aspx

By the way I see now he got a venture fund, he consider to invest up to $1 million per company:
http://www.leo.com/

No need to list other program owners who was into spamming, GFY readers may know nice lists.
The issue of today's people is that they are "too late" to enter the spam business, which is not as easy as once upon a time. Those who could spam 10+ years ago, banked and rebranded or reinvested into something else, leaving spam job to chinese's (is just me, getting all those chinese spam emails?).

deltav · 07-20-2013, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

The problem with this is really it just doesn't match reality. Content saturation today is definitely not usually due to clueless affiliates.

Yeah, apologies if I made it sound like blaming affiliates alone for the current state. Sponsors are absolutely to blame also, and for sure they're the ones ultimately in control of their content. Though I own a paysite I actually do a bit of affiliate stuff also, so I understand both sides there.

I do stand by the theory that the free-for-all affiliate model usually results in widespread spam & low-quality sites though - you see it in adult, you see it with Acai Berries and muscle supplements and mortgage shit and whatever else they're pushing these days. When you have zero vetting and an "anyone can make money" appeal you are going to get those types, along with savvy & creative affiliates who know what they're doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultmobile

Where the biggest adult program owners comes from? Leo of myfreecams was a famous spammer until 2002 (10+ years ago...), sued by Microsoft+Amazon:

Again sure, plenty of bad eggs in the sponsor world. IIRC Leo was also the Ultrapasswords (and others) guy, just a shameless profiteer scammer with zero moral sense or integrity who was happy to blatantly screw over other webmasters to make a buck.

I'm not saying it's a zero-sum dynamic of sponsors vs affiliates. Just that in the past a minimum of vetting might have been good for the industry.

Edit: just saw that link to Leo's venture site. Ah well, another bad guy who banked some $$$ - you have to hope karma gets its due someday but I wouldn't hold my breath. Definitely take pity on any startup who gets into bed with that group tho...

bigluv · 07-20-2013, 02:38 PM

Affiliates are trained not to read the program pages for the most part, because most program info pages are out of date, not updated, and don't contain the most basic info. Half the time I can't even get good contact information anywhere inside the program site, and have to search GFY.

And unfortunately affiliates are people too, so yes, maybe getting a lot of annoying questions is a pointer to make it even more obvious or more links to information on your site.

signupdamnit · 07-20-2013, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltav

I do stand by the theory that the free-for-all affiliate model usually results in widespread spam & low-quality sites though - you see it in adult, you see it with Acai Berries and muscle supplements and mortgage shit and whatever else they're pushing these days. When you have zero vetting and an "anyone can make money" appeal you are going to get those types, along with savvy & creative affiliates who know what they're doing.

I agree that it can lead to that. OTOH typically when programs micro-manage it indicates trouble and hassle for the affiliate. There is a pattern that often these people are some of the first ones to screw the affiliate in some way. You wouldn't think it but it's true. I guess it might have to do with someone with this type of attitude often seeing an affiliate as a liability by default instead of as an asset?

FWIW I don't think within the next couple years most adult (especially paysite) programs will have the problem of "too many affiliates". I think you'll struggle to find them. Those days are in the past. On most other IM forums if you mention adult they will all shy away and say there is no money in it or call it a waste of time. There is a reason for that. It's different for those of us already with a foothold but...

adultmobile · 07-20-2013, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltav

IIRC Leo was also the Ultrapasswords (and others) guy, just a shameless profiteer scammer with zero moral sense or integrity who was happy to blatantly screw over other webmasters to make a buck.

Ah yes http://www.ultrapasswords.com/ I remember... but those passwords was NOT really hacked... was fake free passwords, actually being promos agreed with programs, with Leo's affiliate id. I exchanged mails with Leo for http://www.myfreepaysite.com in ancient ages, he replied he needed real free content from programs to cooperate... so I think he never "stole" any password or content. He just sent a few "emails" in 2000-2002 and perhaps good boy after. Now let's not hate the rich, that's envoy. Mine was just an example to support my disagreement about 10+ years ago affiliates wasn't as spammy as today's.

About the Paul Markhamish discussion about too much free content and tubes are evil, please not here, mine is a cam program so it is offtopic.

adultmobile · 07-20-2013, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

On most other IM forums if you mention adult they will all shy away and say there is no money in it or call it a waste of time.

Yes I can see what you say, in those "make money" and "affiliate program" areas of white hat or black hat wm seo's forums. A guy posts "I have adult blog with 1000 uniques a day, what to do there", and except affiliate reps, the others reply that he'll make no real money in any way, that the adult ad network X will bring $1 a month and so on. Some also mention "shaving", like if adult programs would shave more than mainstream. Most of "make money method" listed are about sites which does not allow adult (even if spammy methods, are non adult ones). Interestingly, in blackhat/botnet ones, they add: "adult programs have too smart systems to catch fraud, better to try new mainstream ones, who may be unexperienced".
We at least have some reputation, in adult, to be not easy to be ripped off

deltav · 07-20-2013, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultmobile

Ah yes http://www.ultrapasswords.com/ I remember... but those passwords was NOT really hacked... was fake free passwords, actually being promos agreed with programs, with Leo's affiliate id. I exchanged mails with Leo for http://www.myfreepaysite.com in ancient ages, he replied he needed real free content from programs to cooperate... so I think he never "stole" any password or content. He just sent a few "emails" in 2000-2002 and perhaps good boy after. Now let's not hate the rich, that's envoy. Mine was just an example to support my disagreement about 10+ years ago affiliates wasn't as spammy as today's.

No, at any given time at least half the passwords on that site were absolutely 'legit' stolen accounts from unknowing webmasters. This is how he accumulated massive amounts of traffic to push towards his own sites.

I had some accounts posted there, had some acquaintances who did too - if that happened you really fucking hoped you had some sort of pw security or bandwidth throttle because the masses were on there immediately downloading your entire site 5000 times over. And bandwidth was not cheap in those days.

And of course IIRC, when anyone confronted Leo about this practice he got totally defensive and took the old route "It's for the webmasters' benefit, so you can see if your site's been compromised". Give me a fucking break.

It's not envy of the rich to dislike that dude, he was/is a scumbag.

lagcam · 07-20-2013, 08:51 PM

I like adultmobile. Seems like one of the straightest guys around.

ls101 · 07-20-2013, 10:14 PM

And most of the time they tend not to read your FAQ.

Due · 07-20-2013, 10:34 PM

I would probably contact the program to figure out if they are still alive and secondly to confirm if they know what they are doing

adultmobile · 07-21-2013, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltav

And of course IIRC

What the correct acronym? I googled that and found so many:

IIRC Image and Identity Research Collective
IIRC Iraqi Islamic Reconciliation Conference
IIRC Immunity and Infection Research Centre
IIRC Interstate Insurance Receivership Compact
IIRC International Interdisciplinary Research Colloquium

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltav

It's not envy of the rich to dislike that dude, he was/is a scumbag.

About envy he got 80th floor condo there, is seriously cute:

http://www.chicagomag.com/Radar/Deal...e-Top-of-Aqua/

adultmobile · 07-21-2013, 06:18 AM

I can't resist to post a surreal discussion I just had with a fraudster affiliate. He surely read instructions, and did not contacted us. But...

---------
TubeCamGirl wrote:

Hi,
We checked your signups and most are from same [ispname]:
[list with dozen of ip's with same range]
...

This is statistically impossible, you may agree looks like unreal.
Can you tell more about your traffic source please, and give an explanation to this.

Regards,
---------

(there was also a signup ratio of 1:1 and 1:2 in first day, then the next days he added trash traffic to make ratio look 1:50 to 1:110, but I did not told him I noticed ratio).

Fraudster Creative Reply 1:

---------
SmartGuy wrote:
> Hello, the traffic comes from my blog, and i work promoting my blog in specific areas of the united states using facebook, i think thast why most of the ips have that range.
---------

Fascinated by the excuse, I replied further:

---------
TubeCamGirl wrote:

Even if guys are all in a same specific areas, they should use different isp companies, there is no such a monopoly in USA. Perhaps you target the customers club of that one isp? The fact some traffic that did not signed up (coming from all over the world, by the way) comes from a blog, does not mean the signups (all made from that one same isp range) comes from real people.
---------

I was thinking the above logic was consistent, but the guy insisted:

---------
SmartGuy wrote:
> no because some isp are more popular in some areas , so most of the users use that ip company... what would be the solution then? promoting my traffic in different areas from the united states , australia and canada?
---------

Ok so he was begging to continue, and looking to change isp or country for fake signups. I replied "Sorry, we prefer if you do not send signups anymore.". Perhaps he will signup as affiliate again on fake name and do fake signups in a more smart way. Some of them return many times, improving each time, taking it like a video game.

Some statistics: 9 out of 10 new affiliates who signup for free lead program are fraudsters. I think tofu confirmed this ratio in another thread for his (bigger) program.

lagcam · 07-21-2013, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultmobile

I can't resist to post a surreal discussion I just had with a fraudster affiliate. He surely read instructions, and did not contacted us. But...

---------
TubeCamGirl wrote:

Hi,
We checked your signups and most are from same [ispname]:
[list with dozen of ip's with same range]
...

This is statistically impossible, you may agree looks like unreal.
Can you tell more about your traffic source please, and give an explanation to this.

Regards,
---------

(there was also a signup ratio of 1:1 and 1:2 in first day, then the next days he added trash traffic to make ratio look 1:50 to 1:110, but I did not told him I noticed ratio).

Fraudster Creative Reply 1:

---------
SmartGuy wrote:
> Hello, the traffic comes from my blog, and i work promoting my blog in specific areas of the united states using facebook, i think thast why most of the ips have that range.
---------

Fascinated by the excuse, I replied further:

---------
TubeCamGirl wrote:

Even if guys are all in a same specific areas, they should use different isp companies, there is no such a monopoly in USA. Perhaps you target the customers club of that one isp? The fact some traffic that did not signed up (coming from all over the world, by the way) comes from a blog, does not mean the signups (all made from that one same isp range) comes from real people.
---------

I was thinking the above logic was consistent, but the guy insisted:

---------
SmartGuy wrote:
> no because some isp are more popular in some areas , so most of the users use that ip company... what would be the solution then? promoting my traffic in different areas from the united states , australia and canada?
---------

Ok so he was begging to continue, and looking to change isp or country for fake signups. I replied "Sorry, we prefer if you do not send signups anymore.". Perhaps he will signup as affiliate again on fake name and do fake signups in a more smart way. Some of them return many times, improving each time, taking it like a video game.

Some statistics: 9 out of 10 new affiliates who signup for free lead program are fraudsters. I think tofu confirmed this ratio in another thread for his (bigger) program.

We have had this conversation before, but seriously, you don't think it is even a little stupid to explain to people how you caught them and thus educate them how to better cheat you (and others) in future?

I sense that you like people to know how smart you undoubtedly are but not all webmasters have your skillset and so whilst you may enjoy pitting your wits against increasingly smarter opponents, I don't think you are doing any favors to everybody else....

Sly · 07-21-2013, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultmobile

---------
TubeCamGirl wrote:

Even if guys are all in a same specific areas, they should use different isp companies, there is no such a monopoly in USA. Perhaps you target the customers club of that one isp? The fact some traffic that did not signed up (coming from all over the world, by the way) comes from a blog, does not mean the signups (all made from that one same isp range) comes from real people.
---------

I'm not saying whether or not this guy is a fraud, but what you said above is not really correct. Media companies do have a monopoly of sorts in the United States. Right now I have access to 2 Internet companies, one of them completely sucks and nobody uses it, but this is the only time in my life I have ever had access to more than 1 Internet company. I have lived in three different cities throughout the country over the past few years and in two of those cities, there was a district-based media monopoly. If those sign-ups are coming from a smaller city, they would most likely all be using the same ISP.

The same is pretty true for cable companies, aside from satellite dish.

adultmobile · 07-21-2013, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagcam

We have had this conversation before, but seriously, you don't think it is even a little stupid to explain to people how you caught them and thus educate them how to better cheat you (and others) in future?
I sense that you like people to know how smart you undoubtedly are but not all webmasters have your skillset and so whilst you may enjoy pitting your wits against increasingly smarter opponents, I don't think you are doing any favors to everybody else....

This thread is really getting offtopic, it was just about the affiliate questions...

If a program can't check IP addresses, it will go out of business without my help. About it being stupid to tell some info: on a business standpoint, if it was true I educated fraudsters so nicely so that they would cheat up to bankrupt the competing affiliate programs, that would be very smart from me, but I don't see other programs collapsing yet due to one mine GFY post. The bad guys not even read GFY: there are forums dedicated to blackhat and hacking, full of "methods" how to fool affiliate programs, run botnets, sell stolen cards and all the frauds, with no censorship. GFY is super boring and silly for them. At times I email to the fraudster his own thread he opened in these evil boards about cheat my program, and it gets funny, considering my fake nicks in same board. I really can't see any GFY post I made as the ultimate threat to the industry's survival. I don't feel the power

adultmobile · 07-21-2013, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

If those sign-ups are coming from a smaller city, they would most likely all be using the same ISP.

With signup ratio 1:1 and 1:2

adultmobile · 07-22-2013, 06:17 AM

Update, the "same ip range guy" just wrote this:

On 22/07/2013 06:16, XXX wrote:
> Please give me a second chance, pls.. I can give u good quality traffic from real users , pls let me work with you..i´ll follow your indications and i´ll do anything you tell me..just tell me what to do and i´ll do it.. please!!

He's so enthusiast of our program (despite I not paid him), I will let him try again.

PR_Glen · 07-22-2013, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

If I start doing well on a program I typically keep a very low profile and do everything I can to avoid contacting the sponsor or a rep. The main reason to be honest is that I am afraid the attention will just lead to the rep upping the shave on my account. If I contact a program it's usually over a payment issue.

I don't mean to keep quoting you man, i really don't. But honestly, this is pure lunacy and nobody should view it as anything different.

adultmobile · 07-22-2013, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

Originally Posted by signupdamnit
If I start doing well on a program I typically keep a very low profile and do everything I can to avoid contacting the sponsor or a rep. The main reason to be honest is that I am afraid the attention will just lead to the rep upping the shave on my account. If I contact a program it's usually over a payment issue.

honestly, this is pure lunacy and nobody should view it as anything different.

Let's say a program shaves more or less, depending on affiliate. Question: for what reason a program should increase shaving to who contacts their support, and not to who "keeps low profile"? If I was going to select what affiliates to fool (and risk they catch me), I would sort them so the last in the list is those writing many times to us (and in forums, as signupdamnit). In fact I got some affiliates who shave on their own, since they are so low profile, they have $1000+ balance and I can't reach them to ask where to pay. Instead those who contact before to start sending traffic, then when got near the first payout, then at first payout etc., you sure don't mess with them.

Sarah_Jayne · 07-22-2013, 10:16 AM

That isn't at all new thing. I've had questions like that most days out of the last ten or so years that I have been doing affiliate management. Being able to answer those sort of things with respect, yet keeping your work flow moving along is just part of the job of affiliate support.

07-20-2013, 10:52 AM	#3
signupdamnit Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,697	You should consider a separate information page which is accessible prior to affiliate registration. Explain things a little more and show us some examples of the promo material which you have available. It's pretty basic right now and it's essentially just a wall of text. Break it up, add some bold headers and like I said show some examples of promo material you have for us. For most cam affiliates promo material is very important. __________________ You don't like my posts? Put me on ignore or fuck right off. I'll say what I want. Last edited by signupdamnit; 07-20-2013 at 10:53 AM..

07-20-2013, 11:05 AM	#5
Klen Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Little Vienna Posts: 32,235	I suggest you to put most common asked questions right on frontpage.Things like this happen beacuse not all sponsors put requied info to same place,so that causing people to think how such info is not avalaible when clicking on link which normaly shows that info on other sponsor site. Last edited by Klen; 07-20-2013 at 11:07 AM..

07-20-2013, 01:56 PM	#9
deltav Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2010 Location: USA Posts: 1,243	This is why I think the "anyone can sign up" standard for affiliate programs the past 10+ years is stupid - your brand gets promoted by idiots with no business or marketing savvy, who then do the throw enough shit at the wall & some will stick approach and spam the world with your content. It becomes the norm in the industry and then online adult becomes synonymous with crap spam sites, the world becomes saturated with all the porn anyone could want, that's just the nature of the free-for-all affiliate system. Even with mainstream afffiliate marketing it's the same. There should be a vetting process - it may have meant sacrificing a few near future sales from those volume-marketing affiliates who wouldn't end up making the cut, but IMO would have been better for the industry in the long term. Too late now tho. __________________ ********* DeltaofVenus.com - Vintage Erotica from the 1800s through 1979

07-20-2013, 08:51 PM	#18
lagcam Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,892	I like adultmobile. Seems like one of the straightest guys around. __________________ Working Cam site for sale - NOT affiliate.

07-20-2013, 10:34 PM	#20
Due Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Murrieta, CA Posts: 3,620	I would probably contact the program to figure out if they are still alive and secondly to confirm if they know what they are doing __________________ I buy plugs Skype: Due_Global /Due

07-20-2013, 10:33 AM	#1
adultmobile No, I am not banned Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ChatGF.com Posts: 5,345	affiliates contacting in icq/skype without read instructions, so common So the biggest trend I see while running a program, it is new affiliates contacting in icq/skype to ask generic things, all of which written in their accounts page, or even in the register form, for example this 5 minutes ago: -------- newaffiliate: thanks for adding me.... newaffiliate: I registered on the tubecamgirl.com as affiliate but I don't understand whats suppose to be done newaffiliate: could you please brief me... tubecamsupp: there is an instructions page. in menu you see it? newaffiliate: No tubecamsupp: look "instructions" newaffiliate: right I see it newaffiliate: thanks, I now get it. -------- This one was easy, but some start to ask a number of things (all of which was written in the register form, plus repeated inside the logged-in page), such as: what your payment methods? How much you pay for PPS? How much you pay per free join? What countries are good for free join? Actually, I repeated these info in every page, from register to logged-in, I was thinking to even open popunders with such an info, but then I sort of figured, by interviewing a few of these guys, that they really just need friends, and/or want to see if anyone is actually replying the support, before to start sending traffic. The latter it is understandable: they fear the program is dead or unfriendly, then they contact them, and if there is a reply, they passed the "is alive" test. Rarely these guys send much traffic really anyway. I also noticed another trend: whoever contacts to make very smart questions, it is most of the times a black hat fraudster and carder. They appear to have read all instructions, made some tests, and ask very fine details, basically trying to get to know how the system does fraud check. Most of the times, when these guys start to send signups, they made these themselves. Some are semi-smart as they make a real adult site or blog with links to our site, put this in http referer (so if you check it seems coming from a legit source), send thousands of trash hits which make no real signups (possibly a redirect from skimmed), then they go making the signups themselves in the mix, so signup ratio is not too good, http referer seems a real site, but they fail other things (which I do not explain here of course). When I go questioning the guy in his icq/skype, he vanishes, except very rare times they reply a time or two trying to understand how I found it was a fraud. Statistically, those affiliates who send the most and best traffic with signups, are contacting not before to start sending traffic, but after made the first $100's. They will do very few medium-level questions, mostly related to pay options or delays. So statistically affiliates contacting before to start sending the first hit, or those asking too much complicated stuff, are either waste of time or malicious. Any thoughts? __________________ TubeCamGirl.com

07-20-2013, 10:45 AM	#2
signupdamnit Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,697	If I start doing well on a program I typically keep a very low profile and do everything I can to avoid contacting the sponsor or a rep. The main reason to be honest is that I am afraid the attention will just lead to the rep upping the shave on my account. If I contact a program it's usually over a payment issue. I wouldn't go so far as to blow anyone off. Sometimes legitimate affiliates need to know the fine details such as exactly which countries count, how hits are counted, which payment methods are available for a given country. It depends on the circumstances and the methods the affiliate is using. Some people are dumb but you might also view the people contacting you over things already answered as an indication that you need to present the information better on the site and make it more visible. __________________ You don't like my posts? Put me on ignore or fuck right off. I'll say what I want.

07-20-2013, 11:00 AM	#4
nexcom28 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,716	I sent you a pm a while back. Still waiting for a reply.

07-20-2013, 01:28 PM	#8
nexcom28 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,716	Hope so, it was about promoting your program after all. If you can't find it let me know if you want.

07-20-2013, 02:38 PM	#13
bigluv Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 850	Affiliates are trained not to read the program pages for the most part, because most program info pages are out of date, not updated, and don't contain the most basic info. Half the time I can't even get good contact information anywhere inside the program site, and have to search GFY. And unfortunately affiliates are people too, so yes, maybe getting a lot of annoying questions is a pointer to make it even more obvious or more links to information on your site.

07-20-2013, 10:14 PM	#19
ls101 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 713	And most of the time they tend not to read your FAQ.

07-21-2013, 06:18 AM	#22
adultmobile No, I am not banned Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ChatGF.com Posts: 5,345	I can't resist to post a surreal discussion I just had with a fraudster affiliate. He surely read instructions, and did not contacted us. But... --------- TubeCamGirl wrote: Hi, We checked your signups and most are from same [ispname]: [list with dozen of ip's with same range] ... This is statistically impossible, you may agree looks like unreal. Can you tell more about your traffic source please, and give an explanation to this. Regards, --------- (there was also a signup ratio of 1:1 and 1:2 in first day, then the next days he added trash traffic to make ratio look 1:50 to 1:110, but I did not told him I noticed ratio). Fraudster Creative Reply 1: --------- SmartGuy wrote: > Hello, the traffic comes from my blog, and i work promoting my blog in specific areas of the united states using facebook, i think thast why most of the ips have that range. --------- Fascinated by the excuse, I replied further: --------- TubeCamGirl wrote: Even if guys are all in a same specific areas, they should use different isp companies, there is no such a monopoly in USA. Perhaps you target the customers club of that one isp? The fact some traffic that did not signed up (coming from all over the world, by the way) comes from a blog, does not mean the signups (all made from that one same isp range) comes from real people. --------- I was thinking the above logic was consistent, but the guy insisted: --------- SmartGuy wrote: > no because some isp are more popular in some areas , so most of the users use that ip company... what would be the solution then? promoting my traffic in different areas from the united states , australia and canada? --------- Ok so he was begging to continue, and looking to change isp or country for fake signups. I replied "Sorry, we prefer if you do not send signups anymore.". Perhaps he will signup as affiliate again on fake name and do fake signups in a more smart way. Some of them return many times, improving each time, taking it like a video game. Some statistics: 9 out of 10 new affiliates who signup for free lead program are fraudsters. I think tofu confirmed this ratio in another thread for his (bigger) program. __________________ TubeCamGirl.com Last edited by adultmobile; 07-21-2013 at 06:21 AM..

07-22-2013, 06:17 AM	#27
adultmobile No, I am not banned Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ChatGF.com Posts: 5,345	Update, the "same ip range guy" just wrote this: On 22/07/2013 06:16, XXX wrote: > Please give me a second chance, pls.. I can give u good quality traffic from real users , pls let me work with you..i´ll follow your indications and i´ll do anything you tell me..just tell me what to do and i´ll do it.. please!! He's so enthusiast of our program (despite I not paid him), I will let him try again. __________________ TubeCamGirl.com

07-22-2013, 10:16 AM	#30
Sarah_Jayne Now with more Jayne Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 40,077	That isn't at all new thing. I've had questions like that most days out of the last ten or so years that I have been doing affiliate management. Being able to answer those sort of things with respect, yet keeping your work flow moving along is just part of the job of affiliate support.