I think I have low T

[96ukssob]

I've been in a slump past few months, if not years really. Went to the doctor to see if its thyroid related and everything comes back "normal"

<tangent> what is "normal" is the same for me, a big frame 280lb 6'3" man compared to that of a 5'2" 110lb Asian man... its not right </tangent>

Went to my doctor last week, told him I have every sign of this problem and its increasing, except for ED. Got some blood work taken and called this morning to say "everything's normal..." BULLSHIT!

I took testosterone as a study back in 2004 while living in LA. During this 8 week treatment, I felt like a million bucks, then after it ended, over time, kept going down and down until now.

Rather, my doctor wants to put me on an anti-depressant and no matter how much I tell him Im not fucking depressed, he says he can't prescribe any meds for low T. Since there is such a high range to be "normal" I'm thinking I go get it done again but this time make sure I get a lack of sleep and lay around all the day before. I think because I got it taken the morning after I was active that night the numbers were higher.

Anyone have this or same issues?

[CaptainHowdy]

There is no such thing as normal ...

[WiredGuy]

Are you physically active? Sports, gym, workouts?
WG

[boneprone]

Hey bud. Maybe its time you try a second opinion of another doctor. If you feel something is wrong and feel he isn't doing the job in finding the issue you really should see another.

You are a large man. There can be all kinds of issues.. They need to do a total rundown of tests and listen to your concerns.

Simply writing it off as "depression" and giving you some pills as they push you out the door is disturbing. To me anyhow.

[cthulhu_waves]

Doctor's a fucking pill pusher. :-(

[Sly]

I went to the ER once because I was having breathing issues. I was very congested. I knew exactly what medicine I wanted, and I was right, it fixed me. I felt absolutely terrible.

While there, the doctor comes to me and says "are you depressed? I would like to prescribe you some Xanax. You seem depressed." I said "I'm not depressed, I feel like shit, why would I be smiling?" He gave me a shot of something for depression and a prescription for Xanax. I never got it filled. Probably should have refused the shot but I was so out of it I didn't care what happened to me, LOL.

[candyflip]

Most times, you can change how you feel by simply adjusting your diet. I am seeing doctors right now for two different things and in both cases, a modification of my diet was the first method of treatment.

[Choopa Phil]

Go to a dr who specialized in Hormone replacement therapy. The normal range for a healthy male is between 4-900 i believe. Most of us will start to be on the decline around age 30 or so. When your on any hormone you will have a great sense of well being...but i suggest getting retested. What were your numbers?

[96ukssob]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Are you physically active? Sports, gym, workouts?
WG

Nope, nothing. No motivation what so ever. Just joined the YMCA yesterday and been coming up with reasons all day why I cant go

Originally Posted by candyflip

Most times, you can change how you feel by simply adjusting your diet. I am seeing doctors right now for two different things and in both cases, a modification of my diet was the first method of treatment.

I have and really the only thing I noticed is I crap a lot more (with fruits). My trainer, who is also my friend, said it really appears I have a test or adrenaline gland problem

Originally Posted by Choopa Phil

Go to a dr who specialized in Hormone replacement therapy. The normal range for a healthy male is between 4-900 i believe. Most of us will start to be on the decline around age 30 or so. When your on any hormone you will have a great sense of well being...but i suggest getting retested. What were your numbers?

Im 31 now, almost 32. Ive noticed a big change in the last year where I'm not motivated to do shit. The nurse told me she couldn't give me the numbers over the phone so I have to come in for an appt to review. Its because of some HIPPA BS that people suing so most docs wont release specific info over the phone.

[PR_Glen]

i prefer the natural approach myself.. Your a big guy find a power lifting trainer. that normally puts my testosterone levels through the roof. Especially when you mix it with whey. You don't have to become one of those gigantors to reap the benefits of it either.

but yeah, finding a more appropriate doctor seems like a must here as well. He sounds terrible.

[WiredGuy]

Originally Posted by bossku69

Nope, nothing. No motivation what so ever. Just joined the YMCA yesterday and been coming up with reasons all day why I cant go

You're about the same age as I am and I really think a couple simple lifestyle changes can help much better than any medication. First off, doing some sort of physical activity goes a very long way, just giving you more energy and a greater attitude towards life. Anything really from playing a sport to doing some cardio. Nothing extreme, 30 min or so to start. Its more important to get into the routine than the actual workout to start.

Make sure you're eating healthy too, get some good sleep too. I used to be the worst when it came to sleep schedules, working online from 4pm-4am. Now I'm awake by 8am and more energetic than ever.

Interact with people too, even if its just going to a coffee shop to relax, get hobbies with friends, socialize, etc. Try a couple of these ideas for just 2 weeks and see if things improve. Hey, if it doesn't work, at least you'll have a healthier lifestyle and who knows, you may enjoy it ;)

Good luck.
WG

[bronco67]

Do heavy squats and deadlifts once per week. You will feel like a man again.

There's probably no scientific proof, but stick with it and you'll see.

[d-null]

if your T comes back in normal range, going unnatural and Trt will not solve your problem and will probably cause more problems

[Spudstr]

Originally Posted by bossku69

Im 31 now, almost 32. Ive noticed a big change in the last year where I'm not motivated to do shit. The nurse told me she couldn't give me the numbers over the phone so I have to come in for an appt to review. Its because of some HIPPA BS that people suing so most docs wont release specific info over the phone.

Correct, ask them to fax it to you instead. My doctor mailed me a copy of mine.

If your doctor wont help you find a new doctor.

[Choopa Phil]

Originally Posted by bronco67

Do heavy squats and deadlifts once per week. You will feel like a man again.

There's probably no scientific proof, but stick with it and you'll see.

there actually is scientific proof that these movements increase testosterone. Also google foods that will help raise test. Its all negligible minute things that can all add up to really make a difference. Or like I said go see an HRT dr they would be a lot more apt to giving you something if you were in the "medium-low" range.

[beerptrol]

just shop around until you find a doctor who will give you what you want

[d-null]

Originally Posted by beerptrol

just shop around until you find a doctor who will give you what you want

great advice

then come back in five years when you have totally fucked up your health

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Choopa Phil

there actually is scientific proof that these movements increase testosterone. Also google foods that will help raise test. Its all negligible minute things that can all add up to really make a difference. Or like I said go see an HRT dr they would be a lot more apt to giving you something if you were in the "medium-low" range.

yeah i'll second this.. that's why i recommended some power lifting, those exercises are crucial.

WG has some great ideas as well. I'd add in some more sunlight though, natural way of getting vitamin d which helps a lot with energy levels, especially after a long dark winter.

[EddyTheDog]

Have a look on Google for 'Myalgic Encephalomyelitis' - I may be way off base, but I think its worth a look....

[bronco67]

Just be careful with the big weight lifting movements, and research proper form first. I used to hate squats, but now I look forward to that one day per week when I almost have to lay down on the gym floor from exhaustion.

Also, look into 20 rep breathing squats.

[Bill8]

try velvet antler.

might be placebo, but I take it, then I seem to enjoy workouts more.

[V_RocKs]

Join a softball league and a bowling league...

Two cheap and effective ways to add physical activity to your life.

[tical]

I'm on TRT and starting it was one of the best moves I ever made. My GP also wanted to just give me anti depressants and viagra and send me on my way but I knew something else was going on.

Post up your lab work results and I'll tell you if I think you should see another doctor... general practitioners typically won't be much help. If you have any questions hit me up... I've been on TRT for 3 years now and understand it well.

[Choopa Phil]

Tical, what are you prescibed if you don't mind me asking. Not a fan of androgel...the other option is 200mg/cyp week

[pimpmaster9000]

ah testosterone

as people told you above, workouts will improve your situation drastically, testosterone by itself is not a good alternative if you will not be working out....diet + workout = solution

[tical]

Originally Posted by Choopa Phil

Tical, what are you prescibed if you don't mind me asking. Not a fan of androgel...the other option is 200mg/cyp week

Hey Phil,

I didn't want to bother going the androgel route either. I'd rather do 1 poke a week than have to rub gels on myself daily. Plus 10 weeks at this dose only costs me about 70 bucks w/o insurance... androgel is much more expensive!

I'm prescribed 100mg of cyp per week and that puts me at the top of the range. I also take 250iu of HCG weekly to keep the balls plump along with 12.5mg of aromasin twice a week (on injection day and 3 days later) just to keep estrogen in check.

Occasionally I'll cruise at a little bit of a higher dose for a couple of months... around 300mg... because... well... I want to hah!

If you were going to go with 200mg it would probably be a good idea to spread it out into 2 shots of 100mg each just so that you don't have any crazy spikes in estrogen. Even though cyp is a long ester, there is still a large spike after the injection.

[tical]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

ah testosterone

as people told you above, workouts will improve your situation drastically, testosterone by itself is not a good alternative if you will not be working out....diet + workout = solution

This isn't always the case. Diet and exercise won't reverse premature andropause, cure bad genetics, or repair an impaired metabolism (which is critical for higher levels of circulating hormones as well as the utilization of them).

Diet and exercise can definitely lend them self to a better sense of well being and all over improvement but it can't turn an aging man into a 20 year old again... genetic aging won't allow it. This is where HRT comes into play... anti-aging medicine.

Also to note, being overweight will increase the level of estrogen in your body. Elevated levels of estrogen influence the negative feedback loop that lowers testosterone.

It works like this:

Your body has an equilibrium of testosterone (androgens) and estrogens that is determined by your metabolism, genetics, age, etc. This is all controlled by your hypothalamus.

1. A small percentage of testosterone you produce is converted to estrogen by an enzyme.

2. Your hypothalamus recognizes this estrogen and uses it as one measurement to control the release of gonadatropins that will signal your balls to produce testosterone.

To your body, too much estrogen means there must be too much testosterone... so it must be lowered to reach that equilibrium once again. Your brain reduces demand for the production of testosterone.

If estrogen is produced by adipocytes (fat cells) and not the aromatizatoin of testosterone,your body will strive to correct this estrogen imbalance by lowering testosterone.

Lose weight and your T should increase slightly... but don't expect a miracle.

[bns666]

get this, works great

[BareBacked]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

You're about the same age as I am and I really think a couple simple lifestyle changes can help much better than any medication. First off, doing some sort of physical activity goes a very long way, just giving you more energy and a greater attitude towards life. Anything really from playing a sport to doing some cardio. Nothing extreme, 30 min or so to start. Its more important to get into the routine than the actual workout to start.

Make sure you're eating healthy too, get some good sleep too. I used to be the worst when it came to sleep schedules, working online from 4pm-4am. Now I'm awake by 8am and more energetic than ever.

Interact with people too, even if its just going to a coffee shop to relax, get hobbies with friends, socialize, etc. Try a couple of these ideas for just 2 weeks and see if things improve. Hey, if it doesn't work, at least you'll have a healthier lifestyle and who knows, you may enjoy it ;)

Good luck.
WG

Wow sounds like you really got your shit together with your personal life. Congrats dude. So good to hear about people making healthy changes in this biz

[uno]

Originally Posted by beerptrol

just shop around until you find a doctor who will give you what you want

Totally, it's only a minor felony in most places.

[uno]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

yeah i'll second this.. that's why i recommended some power lifting, those exercises are crucial.

WG has some great ideas as well. I'd add in some more sunlight though, natural way of getting vitamin d which helps a lot with energy levels, especially after a long dark winter.

I was in Florida in January and went from Zombie Pale to simply 'dead pale'. Huge improvement according to my sister.

[uno]

[TheSquealer]

Tical is probably the only person who can give reasonably credible answers on the topic. it should be noted that low test however and its symptoms can be the result of a lot of things and you shouldn't rule out all other medical issues (increasing lethargy, decreased libido, degraded mental acuity etc etc). And of course, depression and the neurobiology and neurochemistry of depression is entirely unrelated to low testosterone and worlds apart.

If you're determined to head down that path. You need to find a doctor who is competent and has a great deal of experience in this area. Once you've done that, and I only say this because I personally believe in HRT... I would say your issue is simply to lower your test levels enough that you can get a prescription so your doctor is comfortable. Laws and regulations for medical professionals vary greatly from state to state, are often ill defined, whereas the penalties are not. They just need to cover their asses.

When I wanted an actual prescription for Testosterone and spoke to an endocrinologist about it who I met through a friend, he gave me the run down of what levels he wanted to see before he was comfortable writing a prescription. I simply did a 6 week cycle... no post cycle, let my test levels crash... then went get blood work done. Not advising you to do it of course, just sharing my experience.

[epitome]

All the doctors down here seem to advertise testerone shots.

[NewNick]

Get yourself a blow job. Works for me.....

[EddyTheDog]

Originally Posted by EddyTheDog

Have a look on Google for 'Myalgic Encephalomyelitis' - I may be way off base, but I think its worth a look....

This thread is crazy - Just look at ME on Google - It has to be better than mainlining Tiger Testicles.....

[porno jew]

you are fat. the end.

[DWB]

Doctors get paid to push pills to you. Get a 2nd and 3rd opinion of need be. Visit a lab if you can find one and bypass a "doctor" who is just trying to get you locked into anti-depressants, making you think you're depressed.

And to agree with what others have said, try to be a little more active. Sitting in front of a computer all day can really beat you down over time.

[Dead]

Originally Posted by DWB

Doctors get paid to push pills to you. Get a 2nd and 3rd opinion of need be. Visit a lab if you can find one and bypass a "doctor" who is just trying to get you locked into anti-depressants, making you think you're depressed.

And to agree with what others have said, try to be a little more active. Sitting in front of a computer all day can really beat you down over time.

Stay away from anything the doc will prescribe to "make you happy?" You control that shit!

The next generation has got us beat when it comes to prolong exposure to computers and such...should make for some serious competition in the future

[d-null]

Originally Posted by Dead

Stay away from anything the doc will prescribe to "make you happy?" You control that shit!

The next generation has got us beat when it comes to prolong exposure to computers and such...should make for some serious competition in the future

good point, my neighbors are late teen early twenties and they spend all day playing MW on the xbox, all day going into the night, smoking cigarettes and playing videogames, and they have been living that kind of lifestyle for years, should be interesting to see how they end up when they hit 30 if they keep it up


on another note, being overweight increases estrogen issues in the body, if your body is converting a lot of it's testosterone into estrogen, adding more testosterone will just compound the problems, getting in shape first is a pretty important thing before looking for artificial injections or gels to try to solve the problems

[Choopa Phil]

Originally Posted by tical

Hey Phil,

I didn't want to bother going the androgel route either. I'd rather do 1 poke a week than have to rub gels on myself daily. Plus 10 weeks at this dose only costs me about 70 bucks w/o insurance... androgel is much more expensive!

I'm prescribed 100mg of cyp per week and that puts me at the top of the range. I also take 250iu of HCG weekly to keep the balls plump along with 12.5mg of aromasin twice a week (on injection day and 3 days later) just to keep estrogen in check.

Occasionally I'll cruise at a little bit of a higher dose for a couple of months... around 300mg... because... well... I want to hah!

If you were going to go with 200mg it would probably be a good idea to spread it out into 2 shots of 100mg each just so that you don't have any crazy spikes in estrogen. Even though cyp is a long ester, there is still a large spike after the injection.

Yup...exactly what I spoke to my Dr. about. HGC and Aromasin is a must...blood work every 3 months. I'm at the lower end of the range so I have the option. But cyp seems like the way to go even if it is 100mg, I just want to be in the upper range of normal.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by tical

I'm on TRT and starting it was one of the best moves I ever made. My GP also wanted to just give me anti depressants and viagra and send me on my way but I knew something else was going on.

Post up your lab work results and I'll tell you if I think you should see another doctor... general practitioners typically won't be much help. If you have any questions hit me up... I've been on TRT for 3 years now and understand it well.

dude should at least try working out first. of course if your fat and haven't worked out in ages you won't have the motivation to do it but goddamn, you'll never get anywhere with that attitude. this guy sounds like he wants magic in a bottle to solve all his problems without having to actually do anything.

[Choopa Phil]

You should workout regardless of low T or not. Lets wait until we hear the blood work results before we all jump to conclusions.

[96ukssob]

I have an appt with another doctor on Monday morning. I joined a new gym on Wednesday but Im going to hold off working out until after this appt. Why? because I don't want any reason why something would spike.

I told them what I was going through and they said that sounds spot on with a low T issue, likewise could be something related to hypothyroid, hypoglycemic or even cholesterol related, but they will do a full lab and find something to help.

Its not that I enjoy being fat, lazy and unmotivated, I WANT to get up, do things, make lots of money but just no drive

[NewNick]

I'm still going with the blowjob.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by bossku69

I have an appt with another doctor on Monday morning. I joined a new gym on Wednesday but Im going to hold off working out until after this appt. Why? because I don't want any reason why something would spike.

I told them what I was going through and they said that sounds spot on with a low T issue, likewise could be something related to hypothyroid, hypoglycemic or even cholesterol related, but they will do a full lab and find something to help.

Its not that I enjoy being fat, lazy and unmotivated, I WANT to get up, do things, make lots of money but just no drive

drive or no drive you got to try. i find it very strange that you would prefer lifelong testosterone treatment over attempting to get into shape. drag your ass out there and just do it. after several months and some results, the motivation will come. you sound more depressed than anything really.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by tical

This isn't always the case. Diet and exercise won't reverse premature andropause, cure bad genetics, or repair an impaired metabolism (which is critical for higher levels of circulating hormones as well as the utilization of them).

actually diet and exercise does PRECISELY that... just too many people have ADD these days and decide to find short cuts instead with poor results...

If it is necessary for you to take these shots based on what a doctor said that is fine, I'm sure he is on the ball with your health needs, but you recommending it without a diagnosis is completely irresponsible...

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

actually diet and exercise does PRECISELY that... just too many people have ADD these days and decide to find short cuts instead with poor results...

If it is necessary for you to take these shots based on what a doctor said that is fine, I'm sure he is on the ball with your health needs, but you recommending it without a diagnosis is completely irresponsible...

You are critical of these things and comment on them yet you understand nothing about the subject, hormones and hormone replacement therapy.

No one is talking about a "short cut" - he is talking about a legit medical condition that needs to be corrected with hormone supplementation.

And he wasn't recommending anything without diagnosis as a doctor, we are all aware would have to order the full blood panels first and then prescribe test/hcg and some aromatase inhibitor as needed.

Simply exercising isn't going to reverse premature andropause. Because you happen to have the idea that exercise has a positive impact on test levels, you don't seem to understand how minimal this impact is, within the context of the discussion.

[TheSquealer]

And for the record, when it comes to using hormones/steroids like Testosterone and HGH etc.. its easy to talk trash and be critical and cling safely to a taboo word like "steroid" or "chemicals" as you seem to prefer, without having any real idea of whats being discussed or what steroids even are - nevermind the wide range of drugs that word encompasses which range from totally benign in almost any quantity to lethal when abused.

At the end of the day, you are dying. Good diet and exercise will help your health but for the most part, it isn't going to do a great deal to offset the decline in testosterone production and HGH secretion - to the point where its going to have a radical benefit to your health. Your body is breaking down and falling apart. Its designed to. This begins in your mid 20's as a male and heads on a trajectory that climbs steeper and steeper with age. Testosterone and HGH in the context of hormone replacement therapy in males is about preventative measures to slow your body's physical decline. If your test levels are down to very low end of the range, you can't move it back up to the high end with exercise alone. You can only move it up slightly. If going from 300ng/dl to 400 is good enough for you while you try to do everything perfect... that's fine. As for myself, i'm happy at 1000-ish.

Its easy to talk it all down.. but in 20 years when YOU are the one with a bad hip, bad knees, arthritis, failing mind etc.. it will be too late for you for the most part. And that's what some of us work very hard to prevent... with diet, exercise AND hormone replacement therapy.

Tical is the last person in this forum that I would be challenging on the subject.

[Phoenix]

go outside and pick a fight with someone bigger and meaner looking.

this will give you a jump start.

start by shouldering them when you walk by.

enjoy the rush

;)