Originally Posted by smutnut (Post 17068075)

I live in Los Angeles too, and I think you're heart is bleeding for the wrong people, not naturally born or legally immigrated Mexicans who will always be conflicted, but don't be like Angelina Jollie. Adopt American black babies. We have enough of them being abused. Fuck Africa! You didn't make your money from there. Give back to the city and the state and the country that made you.

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17068096)

My heart's not bleeding bud, I just wish we had a little less shoot first and ask questions later mentality on every level, that's all. I just dont see this being affective.

Originally Posted by brassmonkey (Post 17068101)

they did a drive bye on some illegals on the west side of phoenix at home depot

Originally Posted by smutnut (Post 17068107)

When is the last time an illegal has been shot? Or even beaten without trying to outrun the law? Seriously, where does all this bullshit come from. Should the law just say, "oops they are trying to run now. Lets slow down. We don't want to hurt them or give them a boo boo!" ?

I seriously think they should set up shooting ranges at the border, but when is the last time something even remotely like an illegal mother fucking criminal crossing the border been shot, and if you can name one, how many have gotten around that?

Fuck man! You sound crazy. They aren't tough enough. That's the problem.

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17068112)

It's a metaphor for not thinking things thru and looking at the consequences, not actually and literally shooting people..sigh.

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17068066)

I guess time will tell, you think it will make our borders more secure and curb illegal immigration, I dont. Like I said above, time will tell and I hope I'm wrong and I hope it does not bring on even more problems without even solving the first one to begin with.

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17068061)

I dont have solution, but I dont think this is the right one either. I have not read the actual law but what's gonna happen to an illegal? They go to prison? There's more tax dollars being spent. They get deported? Big deal they'll be out in a few weeks and will to sneak back in again as they do right now. People who 'look' hispanic will get questioned, harassed, arrested, get ready for a bunch of civil rights lawsuits, let alone if someone cries out police brutality was involved. There are close to 300k illegals in AZ someone else said, how many more law enforcement officials will need to get hired and will that even be enough? What about the DA's office to deal with all this. And so on..I hope Im wrong, I hope it works, but I see a big can of worms..

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17068148)

This isn't the first time for this... we have had very strong enforcement up in Phoenix and at times National Guard at the borders. Parts of the wall - some need to be improved - and the layered wall also works and needs to be expanded. This isn't a question if it works, this bill puts into action what has already been working.



If you make it harder for them to come in, less will come in. Also illegals make money here and send it back home. Without that money, the family is screwed as the working person is sitting in jail and not able to fund them. When the person gets deported, they aren't going to want to return and it's a hell of a lot harder to return.

Enforcement wise... Think Sheriff Joe Arpaio - He doesn't have to profile you, when you protest without a permit, when he checks a business, and so on - they profile themselves by committing crimes that he can sweep in on and do these checks.

It would be illegal under state and federal laws, to profile people - this law gives police the ability to enforce of the laws on the books and it actually has stipulations in it if they abuse the powers.


This is only the tip... we also have a huge human trafficking problem (ie modern day slavery) that almost every illegal mexican is subject to. Along with sex slaves, child slaves,
murders, torturing of them, starving them, and more..

Add in the drug lord issue, them raiding American homes on American soil. Farmers being shot by illegals passing through with guns that also have drug packed backpacks as part of the payment for them to 'be allowed' to cross.

Tucson home invasion capital... crazy amount already this year. I won't say who gets invaded and who has been caught doing it. Or Phoenix, kidnap capital of the country, yeah - it isn't rich white people kidnapping rich white people.


This "problem" is vastly past what most of the Country understands to be a problem.

Originally Posted by smutnut (Post 17068111)

Did they at least hit one? Or was it gangbangers learning how to shoot and being initiated?

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17067631)

Most great historical Americans were not born here..

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17067706)

Illegals can't take advantage of the welfare system .

Originally Posted by brassmonkey (Post 17068245)

this isnt cali vendzilla we are rebuking these illegals

Originally Posted by Sly (Post 17068246)

States rights, FTW.

Originally Posted by escorpio (Post 17068367)

Nothing but political posturing.

Originally Posted by RP Fade (Post 17068061)

I dont have solution, but I dont think this is the right one either. I have not read the actual law but what's gonna happen to an illegal? They go to prison? There's more tax dollars being spent. They get deported? Big deal they'll be out in a few weeks and will to sneak back in again as they do right now. People who 'look' hispanic will get questioned, harassed, arrested, get ready for a bunch of civil rights lawsuits, let alone if someone cries out police brutality was involved. There are close to 300k illegals in AZ someone else said, how many more law enforcement officials will need to get hired and will that even be enough? What about the DA's office to deal with all this. And so on..I hope Im wrong, I hope it works, but I see a big can of worms..

Originally Posted by JaneB (Post 17068449)

They can't just stop and question you for no reason. They are not going to harass and arrest you because you look hispanic. People always cry out police brutality, it is like crying wolf. Illegals are a huge problem and not just the ones from Mexico. There are a lot of illegals from South and Central America here as well. It is worth it to hire more law enforcement. The crime rate from illegals is crazy and they like to run to Mexico after they commit crimes. Some state needed to take a stand. I hope more states will follow.

Originally Posted by BIGTYMER (Post 17068067)

Tucson's South side is full of illegals. :(

Originally Posted by brassmonkey (Post 17069242)

i just heard last year 241,000 illegals arrested :helpme in tucson

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 17069519)

What I don't understand is why we don't build a huge fucking wall across our border. Just like the Great Wall Of China. Build it huge, tall, wide, and then staff it twenty-four hours a day with our military... Put our military on our borders instead of housing them in prime real estate in San Diego.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17069539)

Yeah, we have a million people here and 241k illegals 'caught' - About 25% - for one city and that's just the people they caught.

The south side is damn near all illegals... signs are in spanish, shops are in spanish, damn near nobody speaks english - it's a real urban heaven.

Originally Posted by escorpio (Post 17069738)

The 241k weren't caught in the city of Tucson, they're caught in the BP's Tucson Sector, which covers Pima, Cochise and Santa Cruz counties.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17069810)

That is a bit different than 'in tucson' isn't it :) Land mass wise that's a huge space, population wise - once you leave Tucson, it's a huge area basically....

Pimp County: 1,012,018
Cochise County: 129,006
Santa Cruz County: 42,923

Roughly 20% with everything added in..

Originally Posted by escorpio (Post 17069826)

The people are caught entering the country, they're not really part of the counted population. Mostly they are caught in the border region, far south from the city of Tucson.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17069853)

Aye I know they aren't - but the ratio is important... The reason most are caught at the border is because the region is to big to monitor, other than at the border. The amount of people we have is to little outside of Tucson - for the proper local, state or federal support to cover such a massive region of nothing.

This law 'helps' correct this by the state giving the local more power and then forcing the federal to fund based on the national guard - if that all goes through.

Originally Posted by escorpio (Post 17069941)

Why is the ratio important? Most are just passing through, not staying in Arizona.
The area is heavily monitored within twenty miles of the border, not just at the border. Getting through the law enforcement gauntlet that stretches twenty miles north is the hard part, not getting over the border itself.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17069949)

Ratio is important because the amount of illegals we have, vs. enforcement is way out of ratio... we can't get more enforcement because we don't have the population to pay for it. Ratios are damn important.

Parts of the areas are heavily monitored 20 miles in that don't have the wall... many parts of the layered wall areas keep them out - other parts don't need a wall at all - the goal is to funnel them into smaller regions that can more easily be monitored and covered - until a multi layered wall can be built - which works.

Before we had employment laws, most didn't pass through... but we still have more come into the state than any other.

Originally Posted by escorpio (Post 17069941)

Why is the ratio important? Most are just passing through, not staying in Arizona.
The area is heavily monitored within twenty miles of the border, not just at the border. Getting through the law enforcement gauntlet that stretches twenty miles north is the hard part, not getting over the border itself.

Originally Posted by escorpio (Post 17069976)

What part of southern Arizona has a layered wall? I'm not familiar with any. Are they further west by Yuma?
Santa Cruz county has large portions of wall and is heavily monitored. There are checkpoints at Agua Linda, Amado and Hwy 286. These and roving Border Patrol are the real threat to smugglers, not a wall. A wall is a waste of money. Manpower is the solution, not that I advocate more militarization of the border region. I advocate making work permits and citizenship easier to obtain.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17070031)

I don't know the locations, I just know parts are layered and this new bill covers adding to what they have and making more of it up to 3 layers deep. I would assume not all parts will be 3 layers.

Without a wall you have an open area that can be crossed at any point... with at least one layer people will avoid crossing the wall with a 15-20 foot drop, go up the wall and come out in an area that can be better monitored with the forces they have rather than covering an extreme open area that they can't cover at all.

Check points stop human trafficking... border patrol can't monitor 80% of the desert.

Originally Posted by brassmonkey (Post 17070239)

well now its time to choke out their income all the border states need to jump on board. really the whole country needs to practice this like reading the bible.

Originally Posted by escorpio (Post 17070151)

An unmanned wall will be easily circumvented. The wall is going to have to be heavily manned so why build a wall at all? Why not just use more manpower? A wall would be a huge waste of money.
So many people in Nogales, Sonora have permits to enter the US (slightly more than 40%, last time I checked) that it's pretty easy to find someone that looks like you and use it. A lot of undocumented people walk in right past US Customs.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17070547)

If people can already get past because they look like them and can provide other documents if in question - then more troops or less troops isn't going to stop that. Unless we are going to start making a DNA record of everyone - we're screwed in that department.

Have you actually read what they are doing? They're bringing in 3,000 more national guard into the state, or wanting to.

Every place the wall is up, has an extreme less amount of people coming through. Nothing, not the biggest, baddest wall, armed guards and land mines won't keep everyone out... people still come in and out of NK - no border can be totally secured and being that we aren't going to anything like that, ever - it's going to be far less secure - so a wall is damn sure needed as another step to slow them down.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17070547)

If people can already get past because they look like them and can provide other documents if in question - then more troops or less troops isn't going to stop that. Unless we are going to start making a DNA record of everyone - we're screwed in that department.

Have you actually read what they are doing? They're bringing in 3,000 more national guard into the state, or wanting to.

Every place the wall is up, has an extreme less amount of people coming through. Nothing, not the biggest, baddest wall, armed guards and land mines won't keep everyone out... people still come in and out of NK - no border can be totally secured and being that we aren't going to anything like that, ever - it's going to be far less secure - so a wall is damn sure needed as another step to slow them down.

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 17070445)

They dont want to stop this. Its a show for the locals. When they take out a CEO of chicken factory in shackles for hiring illegals then I know they are serious. Until then its all bullshit.

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 17070445)

They dont want to stop this. Its a show for the locals. When they take out a CEO of chicken factory in shackles for hiring illegals then I know they are serious. Until then its all bullshit. Sargent Fernandez is back for r& R from Iraq and he is asked for papers and he loses his shit on them and winds up getting the shit beat out of him and sitting in jail. Its funny dont see the teabag constitution crowd coming out about asking fellow Americans for their papers.

Originally Posted by escorpio (Post 17070880)

The point is that it is possible to walk through the wall. If a big wall gets built the other ways of getting people accross will be utilized. A wall would be a huge waste for how effective it would be. The money would be better spent on manpower, cameras and motion detectors. These are the things smugglers truly fear.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17070900)

the law of not hiring illegals has been on the books since Reagan at least

Sargent Fernandez can get legal status, I served with a few in the Navy

Tea Party has other things to do, like create sedition

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17072065)

wow, and this is why I argued against it in another thread. What happens if you have an accent because you're from a European country? Or a New England accent and a cop thinks you're from Canada? or a white American with a Speech impediment? .... can you see where this is going?...it's not just brown skinned people.

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 17072052)

Again until I see them take the Ceo of the chicken factory in handcuffs then they are serious until then its all a show.
I wasn't clear sorry. The Sarge is an American Citizen who is fighting for his country and they ask for papers .he wigs out about it and the trouble starts. US citizens can be asked for papers.if they look like the profile.