?*Tradeshows- ROI- webmasters / programs*? - GoFuckYourself.com

C H R I S · 08-10-2009, 05:56 AM

How are you measuring ROI on your marketing efforts?

How long does it take you to recoup your investment on a tradeshow? How do the tradeshows compare for you???

If you could see immediate ROI would you attend / sponsor / shows again?

How many shows is the right amount for an industry?

If you had one single show that you would attend, which one would it be?

Webmasters- If it was free would you go?

Programs - Would you pay to sponsor webmasters if you were gauranteed traffic?

C H R I S · 08-10-2009, 06:03 AM

Follow up questions for webmasters- If you were paid to go- all expenses (would you attend? Based on traffic and qualifation.

OldSchoolJim · 08-10-2009, 06:05 AM

I think when the vegas show was the only one.....it was absolutely the best....definitely too many shows especially for the amount of consolidation going on in this biz....

3 shows per year imho......vegas, phoenix, miami

MaDalton · 08-10-2009, 06:08 AM

in my opinion 2 american and 1 european show per year are enough. Phoenix Forum and Webmaster Access Amsterdam plus maybe one Internext. but only if the prices are re-considered - for advertisers and attendees. i have witnessed about a week ago how you can do a very successful webmaster meeting for $40 per person - all drinks and food included. this industry has to realize that the times of unlimited money are over - thousands of dollars for some button somewhere on a website or a small ad in a magazine that no one reads won't cut it anymore.

C H R I S · 08-10-2009, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

in my opinion 2 american and 1 european show per year are enough. Phoenix Forum and Webmaster Access Amsterdam plus maybe one Internext. but only if the prices are re-considered - for advertisers and attendees. i have witnessed about a week ago how you can do a very successful webmaster meeting for $40 per person - all drinks and food included. this industry has to realize that the times of unlimited money are over - thousands of dollars for some button somewhere on a website or a small ad in a magazine that no one reads won't cut it anymore.

True dat.... great answers ..... would like AS much feedback as possible.

C H R I S · 08-10-2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchoolJim

I think when the vegas show was the only one.....it was absolutely the best....definitely too many shows especially for the amount of consolidation going on in this biz....

3 shows per year imho......vegas, phoenix, miami

3 is close... I think 4 North American and 1 Europe / 1 Asia / would be perfect - INternet specific of course.

C H R I S · 08-10-2009, 06:33 AM

2nd Follow up queston- Booths.

At our Adult Novelty Expo (100% B2B) we have over 150 booths. Do you think a return of oldschool business ethics is in order... Booths, etc?? If done correctly and booths had traffic.

C H R I S · 08-10-2009, 06:36 AM

Anyone working on Monday????

oceania · 08-10-2009, 06:45 AM

i've been around for ever -
but i think the idea of putting a show in a wonderful hotel like the W
makes it harder for the average webmaster to be able to attend
you have hotel,food, pass, airfare and most important time out of pocket

yes it is like a working vacation
but a mid-priced hotel
and smaller pass price might make it easier for the sponsors to actually see more affiliates and potential affiliates

i personally loved the speed networking
and the classes/seminars

jay23 · 08-10-2009, 07:06 AM

We need one show with booths, even if small once. From some one who sells technology this is the most effective way. The cabana stuff does not work.

baddog · 08-10-2009, 07:29 AM

One show a month is sufficient.

seeandsee · 08-10-2009, 07:42 AM

i have plan to make ROI 1000% , we will see how will work :D

Iron Fist · 08-10-2009, 07:43 AM

When you say "webmasters" you mean affiliates or just program owners?

brand0n · 08-10-2009, 08:05 AM

you know...

i remember the 1st internext i went to.. the cost of the tickets were.. i think.. 125 a pop? if that? and the place was a fucking mad house.

then i, like a lot of people watched 2 things continue to happen. the costs to rise, and the amount in attendance decline.

and now of course with the most talked about word in in the past 5 years (economy) being where it is, i really think that it might be "biting the hand that feeds you" type deal.

rumor i heard was this show you had at best 400 people there.. i think back to when there was 400 people in line on day one just to get a badge... i also remember when every sponsor, no matter how small (remember the likewhoa booth that was a couch?) had to have a spot at internext. had 2! i also remember when there were so many run of the mill webmasters covering the floor that sponsors had crowds of people waiting to talk to in front of booths.

seems now all you have is booth a talking to booth b about a cross sale deal.

i honestly think that you guys way over pushed the costs.. i really do.. and ive been saying that for years now.. (on this topic me and someone else laughed as we both showed up a day or 2 early and were at the pool drinking drinks, then the show started and the drink prices went up 30%)

then the economy tanked on top of it, and people wonder why there is only 400 people at what was once the largest show of the year.

so.... you cut out the little guy from going, trying to make as much as you could selling tickets, and that in turn has cut out the people who want to advertise to those little guys as they are not there, so they are gone 2.

you should consider revamping the entire system to work with what you have to deal with today.

but thatll never happen, and you can say it might, or you can say well look into it.. but lets face the facts here.. the only reason you guys are even compelled to put these shows together is to make as much money as you possibly can.

/rant.

C H R I S · 08-10-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brand0n

you know...

i remember the 1st internext i went to.. the cost of the tickets were.. i think.. 125 a pop? if that? and the place was a fucking mad house.

then i, like a lot of people watched 2 things continue to happen. the costs to rise, and the amount in attendance decline.

and now of course with the most talked about word in in the past 5 years (economy) being where it is, i really think that it might be "biting the hand that feeds you" type deal.

rumor i heard was this show you had at best 400 people there.. i think back to when there was 400 people in line on day one just to get a badge... i also remember when every sponsor, no matter how small (remember the likewhoa booth that was a couch?) had to have a spot at internext. had 2! i also remember when there were so many run of the mill webmasters covering the floor that sponsors had crowds of people waiting to talk to in front of booths.

seems now all you have is booth a talking to booth b about a cross sale deal.

i honestly think that you guys way over pushed the costs.. i really do.. and ive been saying that for years now.. (on this topic me and someone else laughed as we both showed up a day or 2 early and were at the pool drinking drinks, then the show started and the drink prices went up 30%)

then the economy tanked on top of it, and people wonder why there is only 400 people at what was once the largest show of the year.

so.... you cut out the little guy from going, trying to make as much as you could selling tickets, and that in turn has cut out the people who want to advertise to those little guys as they are not there, so they are gone 2.

you should consider revamping the entire system to work with what you have to deal with today.

but thatll never happen, and you can say it might, or you can say well look into it.. but lets face the facts here.. the only reason you guys are even compelled to put these shows together is to make as much money as you possibly can.

/rant.

So how did you like the show? See you next year

MichaelP · 08-10-2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay23

We need one show with booths, even if small once. From some one who sells technology this is the most effective way. The cabana stuff does not work.

Sorry Chris, far from the intention to "Jack" you thread

Jay you should look at our event QWEBEC EXPO coming up at the end of the month then

You can have a complete 10x10 booth for only $1000

Ok now we're back to our regular programing.

From my POV, I think every show have something unique to offer. Don't forget that every one have a natural regional market, North-East being ours... If there would be 4 Internet B2B shows in let say North-West, or any other specific region, then yes there would be too many shows... from my POV of course

Barefootsies · 08-10-2009, 08:16 AM

I like going to the shows and meeting people. Even though I am a self sufficient enigma and do not need cross deals from others to make a good living. I shoot my own stuff. Generate my own traffic. Doing everything in house.

Florida was nice because I had gotten to finally put some names with faces, as well as talk to the live chat, mobile, and cam guys I wanted. Plus hang out with old friends for a nice weekend away.

That said, 1 show every 2 months would be enough. That should allow for U.S., Canada, and International shows. As for U.S. shows, it seems most people want one huge show like the Miami, Phoenix, Los Angeles, and Vegas shows to be the 4.

I did San Fran (just for you BD) and enjoyed it. It had a nice turn out, all of the seminars were PACKED and you had some awesome information and conversations there. Which is what business is all about. The networking.

That said, I agree. Way too many shows when you have lowering attendance and people becoming more selective of the conferences they go to now. Some big names were missing from Miami I would have liked to talk to.

Anthony · 08-10-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

I like going to the shows and meeting people. Even though I am a self sufficient enigma and do not need cross deals from others to make a good living. I shoot my own stuff. Generate my own traffic. Doing everything in house.

Florida was nice because I had gotten to finally put some names with faces, as well as talk to the live chat, mobile, and cam guys I wanted. Plus hang out with old friends for a nice weekend away.

That said, 1 show every 2 months would be enough. That should allow for U.S., Canada, and International shows. As for U.S. shows, it seems most people want one huge show like the Miami, Phoenix, Los Angeles, and Vegas shows to be the 4.

I did San Fran (just for you BD) and enjoyed it. It had a nice turn out, all of the seminars were PACKED and you had some awesome information and conversations there. Which is what business is all about. The networking.

That said, I agree. Way too many shows when you have lowering attendance and people becoming more selective of the conferences they go to now. Some big names were missing from Miami I would have liked to talk to.

Ok, damnit, I didn't know you were at Miami. I would have loved to sit down and chatted with you. Next time.

TMM_John · 08-10-2009, 08:59 AM

Move it to October and I'll be there. 100 degrees and 100% humidity just doesn't work.

Andy CHOOPA · 08-10-2009, 09:01 AM

I thought the show was great. Great to meet you Chris.

Zorgman · 08-10-2009, 09:08 AM

For me, 1 big show a year would be enough. Since I live so fucken far away (Australia). I just can't stand the 17 hour flight from Sydney to LA - It kills me.

ShellyCrash · 08-10-2009, 09:12 AM

I think there are more than a handful of different business models out there so not everyone will have the same take, but as someone who works primarily with subscription based sites I view the main objective of having a booth to be new affiliate / webmaster acquisition.

For a B to B show, which seems to be where things are headed, a booth wouldn't benefit my companies as much, but if I were a company like - say Iporn for example- who is looking for advertising dollars from other businesses, having a booth and a strong presence at a B2B geared show makes much more sense.

I still get value out of attending shows like Internext putting in some face time with the people I do business with who are normally scattered throughout the country, or even world for that matter. As an attendee- setting up a few meetings, putting a few deals in place and staying in contact to make sure things get implemented I can expect to see a return in 1 to 3 months. Also face time isn't as much of a branding exercise, and since it's direct contact the return is easily trackable.

On the badge price feedback tip, in speaking with some people trying to get some new blood into the game, the $300 bar for entry was raised a little high. I'm sure I'm not the only one who reached into their wallet to get someone to attend. I don't feel cheaper tickets is the total answer, but I think the cheaper tickets are the more webmasters would consider attending, and possibly the more tickets sponsor programs would be interested in handing out. Also bringing back the webmasters for my business model gives me a justification to bring back the booth.

That being said, I did enjoy the show. I got alot of work done but also was able to work in a little play time which was a nice change for me.

Chris · 08-10-2009, 09:14 AM

This time a year it seems like we have wayyyy too many shows all bunched up.

We have 4 alone in august. 5 in September and 4 in October.

All decent shows aswell....

but personally I feel that the shows are more about putting a face to a name rather then worrying about how fast you will make your money back.

I stick to one a year now.

Varius · 08-10-2009, 09:33 AM

I think someone I was having dinner with Friday night summed things up best: "The shows to me are like high-school reunions; that's why I go".

That's not to say business can't still be done nor shows still profitable. I'll use Mojohost as an example as I believe they will have a TON of new customers after this show. They offered something different and interesting (their data centre tours), they were very well attended and as an incentive, they offered the show badge to those who went. Just my guess but including the badge they probably spent $350 a head (badge, transportation, refreshments, food) and I think they will see a nice ROI regardless. That's the kind of model others should follow.

Paying $20K for banners around the hotel just isn't worth it to me, especially for already established companies. They are much better served putting that money to something with more of an individual touch, such as dinners or unique events. Some people think if a program has been a top advertiser for shows for years and suddenly stop and do something else, their program must be hurting these days. I would just think they are spending their money smarter.

From an affiliate point of view, the few who did attend and who I spoke with shared that the only reason they were there was because they were invited with their expenses paid. They would never pay badge + room + airfare out of their own pocket anymore for a show where as an affiliate, they don't need to attend other than to meet some people they work with or for the parties. With the decline in parties, they see even less reason to go. Since it's very few sponsors who are inviting their affiliates out (and they have valid reason; why risk him meeting other programs who sway him away from you, while he's there on your dime!), that's why you see much less affiliates at shows than you used to.

The day we stopped advertising at shows was the day attendance starting going down, yet to combat this, the show organizers decided prices for both attendees and sponsors should increase. That's simply backwards logic and short-term thinking and until it changes expect many companies to agree with me.

There's my ultra-long two cents

GetSCORECash · 08-10-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

but personally I feel that the shows are more about putting a face to a name rather then worrying about how fast you will make your money back.

This is so true! and the best reason to attened.

C H R I S · 08-10-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Varius

I think someone I was having dinner with Friday night summed things up best: "The shows to me are like high-school reunions; that's why I go".

That's not to say business can't still be done nor shows still profitable. I'll use Mojohost as an example as I believe they will have a TON of new customers after this show. They offered something different and interesting (their data centre tours), they were very well attended and as an incentive, they offered the show badge to those who went. Just my guess but including the badge they probably spent $350 a head (badge, transportation, refreshments, food) and I think they will see a nice ROI regardless. That's the kind of model others should follow.

Paying $20K for banners around the hotel just isn't worth it to me, especially for already established companies. They are much better served putting that money to something with more of an individual touch, such as dinners or unique events. Some people think if a program has been a top advertiser for shows for years and suddenly stop and do something else, their program must be hurting these days. I would just think they are spending their money smarter.

From an affiliate point of view, the few who did attend and who I spoke with shared that the only reason they were there was because they were invited with their expenses paid. They would never pay badge + room + airfare out of their own pocket anymore for a show where as an affiliate, they don't need to attend other than to meet some people they work with or for the parties. With the decline in parties, they see even less reason to go. Since it's very few sponsors who are inviting their affiliates out (and they have valid reason; why risk him meeting other programs who sway him away from you, while he's there on your dime!), that's why you see much less affiliates at shows than you used to.

The day we stopped advertising at shows was the day attendance starting going down, yet to combat this, the show organizers decided prices for both attendees and sponsors should increase. That's simply backwards logic and short-term thinking and until it changes expect many companies to agree with me.

There's my ultra-long two cents

And your not even in adult -

Your badge is comped in Vegas.

Varius · 08-10-2009, 10:08 AM

Oh, I did want to add one more thing:

The Westin staff, once again this year, were extremely friendly which is a nice change from many other venues. Most other hotels would tell us to go to bed instead of bringing us a fresh tray of beers to the pool at 7am and hot, pressed bath robes

Kiwigirl · 08-10-2009, 10:50 AM

How are you measuring ROI on your marketing efforts?
Depending on what you would consider ROI. I personally did enough biz at internext where my overall cost to attend has been recuperated and that is without doing my follow ups. Anything generated through my follow ups will be profit.

How long does it take you to recoup your investment on a tradeshow? How do the tradeshows compare for you???
I personally prefer trade shows that are industry only events. Phoenix and FL show are my 2 favorite shows in the year. As much as I love Las Vegas I find that attending shows there tend to side track people to do other things aside from business which does not make those shows as productive. And there is nothing worse than talking to someone at the bar for 5mins only to discover that they are a tourist and are not in the industry. (especially after buying them a drink! LOL)

If you could see immediate ROI would you attend / sponsor / shows again?
DUH! LOL YES

How many shows is the right amount for an industry?
I am happy to attend 1 show every 2-3 months but I include consumer shows in that number so realistically that is say 3 B2B shows a year.

If you had one single show that you would attend, which one would it be?
Phoenix forum, lunch is included, snack shack is a blessing especially for early morning coffee and late night snacking and being that the entire hotel is booked keeps the affair intimate.

Webmasters- If it was free would you go?
Phoenix was once a free show to attend and when that was the case there was a huge turn out. There is still a huge turn out for that show but the affiliate niche of attendees definitely thinned out. If badges to a show were free it would be more likely that the event hotel would be sold out and overall attendance would be greater.

Programs - Would you pay to sponsor webmasters if you were gauranteed traffic?
Yes! I was bull shitting with someone earlier this year about offering a promotional campaign to all their affiliates. The concept was if you send X amount of sign ups you would get an all inclusive trip to a show. These are the kinds of things that are desperately needed however with the overall cost of shows these days it would require a much larger amount of sales to make it of value for any affiliate program to pay for their affiliates to attend.

My 2 cents about internext this past weekend....
The show appeared to have less attendance than previous years however it was extremely productive for me. I met lots of new people, seen lots of old ones and managed to accomplish what it was that I set out to do as well as much more.
Overall experience - 9/10

(I dropped a number cos I am holding the show coordinators responsible for my tremendous hang over on Saturday morning! lol)

DWB · 08-10-2009, 10:55 AM

For starters, all travel for me (and any of you) that is work related, is a tax deduction. So if Uncle Sam isn't getting that money, right there is my ROI.

But, if you want to get specific about it, there is no way to tell what it is. I've had ONE deal cash me out enough to cover any show, in any part of the world, for the next 3 years. I've also had deals that ended up hardly covering my expenses. There is just no way to know until you are back and do follow ups with the people you have met, most of which usually don't pan out.

What I will say for shows is, it helps solidify your current relationships. Yes, you can talk on the phone and ICQ, but actually going out with them for any amount of time, helps keep things running.

I am no longer a show goer, as I am booked solid for years to come with work, but I did go last Jan to AVN and Internext to meet a few guys from here, and hang out with the people I currently work with. The few guys I did meet, business may come later from that, but I know that I WOULD work with them if there was something that we could both profit from later. So in that sense, it was more like planting a potential seed.

With all that said, during times when I was looking for work, I will get on a plane and fly anywhere in the world, at any time, to ink a big deal. The same goes for the people I do business with. I've flown across the world for deals and they have flown to me. I've flown from city to city for a few HOURS and the same as been done for me. A deal is a deal and those who know the value of that deal, will do whatever they can, ASAP, to dry that ink.

Shows... ehhhh... they are what they are, but I don't believe you need them to make your business grow. My biggest deals never came from shows in the 11 years I've been doing this.

But if you want to know, how much do I have to get in return to lock down a deal that will make me 10s of 1000s or even 100k+ over some time? I will spend what I have to spend that is equal to what I will get in return. I know what I'm worth and what my content is worth, so I pay and expect the return accordingly.

fris · 08-10-2009, 10:56 AM

Was already offered to go all expenses paid by a couple companies, but I turned them down.

C H R I S · 08-10-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwigirl

How are you measuring ROI on your marketing efforts?
Depending on what you would consider ROI. I personally did enough biz at internext where my overall cost to attend has been recuperated and that is without doing my follow ups. Anything generated through my follow ups will be profit.

How long does it take you to recoup your investment on a tradeshow? How do the tradeshows compare for you???
I personally prefer trade shows that are industry only events. Phoenix and FL show are my 2 favorite shows in the year. As much as I love Las Vegas I find that attending shows there tend to side track people to do other things aside from business which does not make those shows as productive. And there is nothing worse than talking to someone at the bar for 5mins only to discover that they are a tourist and are not in the industry. (especially after buying them a drink! LOL)

If you could see immediate ROI would you attend / sponsor / shows again?
DUH! LOL YES

How many shows is the right amount for an industry?
I am happy to attend 1 show every 2-3 months but I include consumer shows in that number so realistically that is say 3 B2B shows a year.

If you had one single show that you would attend, which one would it be?
Phoenix forum, lunch is included, snack shack is a blessing especially for early morning coffee and late night snacking and being that the entire hotel is booked keeps the affair intimate.

Webmasters- If it was free would you go?
Phoenix was once a free show to attend and when that was the case there was a huge turn out. There is still a huge turn out for that show but the affiliate niche of attendees definitely thinned out. If badges to a show were free it would be more likely that the event hotel would be sold out and overall attendance would be greater.

Programs - Would you pay to sponsor webmasters if you were gauranteed traffic?
Yes! I was bull shitting with someone earlier this year about offering a promotional campaign to all their affiliates. The concept was if you send X amount of sign ups you would get an all inclusive trip to a show. These are the kinds of things that are desperately needed however with the overall cost of shows these days it would require a much larger amount of sales to make it of value for any affiliate program to pay for their affiliates to attend.

My 2 cents about internext this past weekend....
The show appeared to have less attendance than previous years however it was extremely productive for me. I met lots of new people, seen lots of old ones and managed to accomplish what it was that I set out to do as well as much more.
Overall experience - 9/10

(I dropped a number cos I am holding the show coordinators responsible for my tremendous hang over on Saturday morning! lol)

Jo I cant read purple

DWB · 08-10-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVNChris

How many shows is the right amount for an industry?

There are WAAAAAY too many as is. I'd say 2 or 3 max.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVNChris

If you had one single show that you would attend, which one would it be?

The biggest one, where ever that was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVNChris

Webmasters- If it was free would you go?

That shouldn't matter. If you can't afford to go, you shouldn't be getting into the business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVNChris

Programs - Would you pay to sponsor webmasters if you were gauranteed traffic?

No way. Too many liars and scammers out there who promise the world and deliver shit.

Anthony · 08-10-2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

How are you measuring ROI on your marketing efforts?

Generally we don't see ROI till 90 days, anything past that is a loss. This past show we will see in 30.

Quote:

How long does it take you to recoup your investment on a tradeshow? How do the tradeshows compare for you???

See above.

Quote:

If you could see immediate ROI would you attend / sponsor / shows again?

This was the case with earlier shows circa 2000.

Quote:

How many shows is the right amount for an industry?

2 domestic, 1 International.

Quote:

If you had one single show that you would attend, which one would it be?

AVN Las Vegas show (internet), with a very close second, TPF.

Quote:

Webmasters- If it was free would you go?

As a former affiliate, the answer to this is always yes barring cost of travel, room, etc.

Quote:

Programs - Would you pay to sponsor webmasters if you were guaranteed traffic?

This is also a yes.

madm1k3 · 08-10-2009, 01:21 PM

I've been to internext Las Vegas 3 times and everytime there is less webmasters and more and more content shooters and program reps. I find alot of program reps got thier job with thier company from a job interview and never had to make sales to support themselves.

I've also heard so much stupid shit come out of the mouths of presenters at seminars that I rarely if ever attend those anymore.

Basically for me Internext Vegas is a good winter get away and a chance to party but I know alot of webmasters who could care less about going to shows anymore.

I've paid $200, $300 and $150 to go to internext, it should cost about $50 and then charge cover at the parties. Every night I left the internext parties and ended up going to different parties on the strip.

Finally if you want more web masters to show up have MORE GIRLS!!! These are porn conventions and last year's internext it looked more like an accountant trade show!

JFK · 08-10-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVNChris

Anyone working on Monday????

I am

AmeliaG · 08-10-2009, 01:35 PM

I used to love going to all the shows, all the way back to when the adult Vegas show was a room in (I think) the Sands during CES. They were fun.

As my business evolved to being more an internet business, the shows were great for meeting people who could really push traffic to SpookyCash. And they were fun.

Over time, however, I think a lot of the affiliates were made to feel like second class citizens at shows. There started being too many a la carte features where someone could pay a few hundred dollars for badges and still not be invited to the main networking events. That is not particularly fun and the ROI doesn't work for either affiliates or program owners.

Add to that industry consolidation and shrinkage, with so many people leaving the industry and so many fewer companies and it is hard to feel like shows are as worthwhile when the odds of meeting any new traffic whales are so reduced.

Choice of hotel is probably difficult for anyone trying to throw a show. I know that I have trouble feeling like doing business (or staying) in a low end hotel, but a hotel I'd want to stay in is going to be a more notable budget issue.

I just kind of did the math and decided that the ROI on fundamentally $9,000 worth of beer was not that great and the shows were no longer fun enough for me to justify them partly on that basis.

MaDalton · 08-10-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

That shouldn't matter. If you can't afford to go, you shouldn't be getting into the business.

i think you are wrong here. everyone starts small and attending a show can give also small guys a push and help them to understand the business better. plus learning from others, meeting program owners etc bla bla - you know it.

i think the barrier to attend a show should be much lower. and i don't just mean moneywise, but also considering the attitude of many participants. i read from many small webmasters here over the years that they are more or less afraid to go to shows and i'd blame champagne pics, coke adventures and flying chairs (just a few samples).

that serious business can be done - also for small guys - is very often overshadowed by all the debauchery threads after a show.

MeganS · 08-10-2009, 02:08 PM

I'm not sure if there is a way to do this with internet side, but i saw it work VERY well on DVD side.

Chris you are probably aware of Expomark. But for those who aren’t ...

It is a DVD show that only the studios pay to go. Then all the buyers are brought in for free. It is 3 days and you have meetings ever 30 min. A pager notifies you of the end of the meeting, 5 min to travel to the next meeting. No matter how big or small everyone is forced to meet with everyone. Even if you don't like each other (in that case you pretty much sit there in silence or just do the "hey i showed up ... we have nothing to talk about .. see ya!" or in a few rare instances work out your differences)

Being forced to see if there is a way 2 entities can do business is a great idea. I dreaded the idea at first, but quickly loved it. Expomark was responsible for getting the best of the best buyers there, with suggestions from the studios as well. The show attendees were offered breakfast and lunch together. The meetings ran from 9:30 to 5:30 (with a few breaks and lunch thrown in there). Then from that point on some had special dinners, some have special events, some just hung at the hotel bar together. This allowed for the “fun time” to get to know people as well. We were given a questionnaire filled out by every buyer a week before the show. It let you know all their contact info, what products they were most interested in, etc. I was able to create a meeting agenda for each person caters to their needs.

Granted the attendance is MUCH smaller than Internext, but I think a modified version of this COULD work. It would allow every program face time with every webmaster/traffic source. Sometimes 15 min of face time so you can follow up later is all you need. That may never happen if people don’t happen to randomly meet and are unaware of each other. Hypothetically you could do this from Noon to 5 each day out by the pool. Make the meetings 25 min, 5 min “travel time”. Make people sign up to do it. And MAKE SURE IT’S A RESTRICTED area since people don’t always abide by the “Don’t bother people while they appear to be in a meeting just to say hi!! rule”

Few other random points:

-I also suggest doing away with SO many seminars … there really are very few needed.

-I also think WAY to many shows are around!! I think 3-4 is more than enough! Just make sure the 3-4 are killer shows, work within peoples budgets and that there is CLEVER marketing options for sponsors.

-CAN ANYONE HERE TELL ME WHO SPONSORED THE BAR AT INTERNEXT LAST YEAR (doesn’t count if you’re the sponsor)? CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT 5 COMPANIES SPONSORED SOME PARTY AT PHOENIX FORUM? You get my point … The sponsorship opportunities need to have a major overhaul … and that is NOT Internext specific.

Anthony · 08-10-2009, 02:12 PM

Great post Megan!

TheAmericanCannibal · 08-10-2009, 02:18 PM

I love seeing everyone at tradeshows don't get me wrong- but after 12 yrs of doing this show I passed-

I am also glad cause for 2257safe.com there is no ROI to fly to FLA to have a bunch of program owners who are NOT familiar with the law tell me they are in Canada so 2257 doesn't apply to them.

WRONG- all US based webmasters need copies of 2257 from their sponsors. Period.

Also at $20/ month on the low end I'd much rather put out marketing money into Google Ads and Yahoo...

Just my two cents

Here is a great review of the AVN show- lol

http://www.lukeisback.com/?p=8125

DWB · 08-10-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i think you are wrong here. everyone starts small and attending a show can give also small guys a push and help them to understand the business better. plus learning from others, meeting program owners etc bla bla - you know it.

i think the barrier to attend a show should be much lower. and i don't just mean moneywise, but also considering the attitude of many participants. i read from many small webmasters here over the years that they are more or less afraid to go to shows and i'd blame champagne pics, coke adventures and flying chairs (just a few samples).

that serious business can be done - also for small guys - is very often overshadowed by all the debauchery threads after a show.

You may be right, there is no real way to know. My suggestion was that, if you can't afford the price of the show and some travel, how in the world are you going to pay for Visa, hosting, content (unless you or your girl are the star), marketing and so on. It's not cheap to run even the most basic site if you do it right.

With that said, yea, everyone deserves a chance. But, Google is free, so is GFY and every other board. If AVN wants to help noobs, they should devote an area to their site to a directory where noobs can learn for free without breaking the bank. Maybe they already have that, I dunno, I stopped going to their site a long time ago.

My first show I was a total noob. Most people didn't want to talk to me and those who did talked about stuff I had no idea about. I didn't find it a good place to get my feet wet, but that was just my experience. A lot of it was over my head and seemed out of reach. Many topics in seminars were too advanced. Things just cost too much. I wish I knew about boards before and there were more online resources to jump start me a little, like there are now. Buuuut, I survived and am here 11 years later.

DWB · 08-10-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GFFMegan

Chris you are probably aware of Expomark. But for those who aren?t ...

It is a DVD show that only the studios pay to go. Then all the buyers are brought in for free. It is 3 days and you have meetings ever 30 min. A pager notifies you of the end of the meeting, 5 min to travel to the next meeting. No matter how big or small everyone is forced to meet with everyone. Even if you don't like each other (in that case you pretty much sit there in silence or just do the "hey i showed up ... we have nothing to talk about .. see ya!" or in a few rare instances work out your differences)

This is an excellent show.

DWB · 08-10-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAmericanCannibal

all US based webmasters need copies of 2257 from their sponsors. Period.

They are not going to get them. Well, at least not from anyone reputable that values the safety and privacy of their models. Let a model or two get stalked, raped and killed when some nut gets her personal data and lets see how things pan out. Or when identity theft explodes within the adult industry due to it. Not that any of you have decent credit anyway, but you get my drift. I think it's flat out criminal to give out that information.

Sometimes you have to break the law in order to do the right thing.

TheAmericanCannibal · 08-10-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

They are not going to get them. Well, at least not from anyone reputable that values the safety and privacy of their models. Let a model or two get stalked, raped and killed when some nut gets her personal data and lets see how things pan out. Or when identity theft explodes within the adult industry due to it. Not that any of you have decent credit anyway, but you get my drift. I think it's flat out criminal to give out that information.

Sometimes you have to break the law in order to do the right thing.

Hence why we store all of your data on PCI-DSS compliant servers where no one can access it.

So u are telling me that you'd rather break the law, rather than give your webmasters copies of your 2257 information?

What does that tell your webmasters about your business?
Bear in mind you don't have to list the performers address- in fact most copies of 2257 I have seen with our services has all of that information blacked out-

Anthony · 08-10-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAmericanCannibal

I love seeing everyone at tradeshows don't get me wrong- but after 12 yrs of doing this show I passed-

I am also glad cause for 2257safe.com there is no ROI to fly to FLA to have a bunch of program owners who are NOT familiar with the law tell me they are in Canada so 2257 doesn't apply to them.

WRONG- all US based webmasters need copies of 2257 from their sponsors. Period.

Also at $20/ month on the low end I'd much rather put out marketing money into Google Ads and Yahoo...

Just my two cents

Here is a great review of the AVN show- lol

http://www.lukeisback.com/?p=8125

Pretty shitty review. The days of stupidity are done. I wasn't there to drink everyone's free booze or go to their parties, I'm there to get business done with people from around the world in my industry.

FightThisPatent · 08-10-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

They are not going to get them. Well, at least not from anyone reputable that values the safety and privacy of their models. Let a model or two get stalked, raped and killed when some nut gets her personal data and lets see how things pan out. Or when identity theft explodes within the adult industry due to it. Not that any of you have decent credit anyway, but you get my drift. I think it's flat out criminal to give out that information.

latest 2257 regs allows for the black-out of the address, SSN, etc info on the drivers license, so the "stalking" issue has been resolved.

Fight the black marker!

TheAmericanCannibal · 08-10-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

Pretty shitty review. The days of stupidity are done. I wasn't there to drink everyone's free booze or go to their parties, I'm there to get business done with people from around the world in my industry.

Anthony I am right there with you, but now as a company owner I am doing a better job at spending my money.

Don't get me wrong, fucking around in FLA on another company's dime is one thing- did it for many years....but when it's my dime, I am making better decisions on which shows to attend and which ones not to.

There is a reason why attendance was down. Most companies can't even pay their hosting bills let alone fly across the country and over spend at a hotel.

I know someone who didn't stay at the Westin and his bill was 70% less than a person who did spend all of his time at the Diplomat. That figure included meals, room service, and the room!

I am all for capitalism, I am all for AVN making money, but I wasn't ready to fork over all that money right now to them.

I have a girlfriend with expensive taste :-))

WiredGuy · 08-10-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVNChris

Follow up questions for webmasters- If you were paid to go- all expenses (would you attend? Based on traffic and qualifation.

Free badge for webmasters would be a huge bonus. Not so sure about all expense paid though. Maybe comped hotels or flights but not the entire thing as there's less inclination to treat it as a business trip and just a vacation.

PS: Great seeing you in Florida

WG

TheAmericanCannibal · 08-10-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

latest 2257 regs allows for the black-out of the address, SSN, etc info on the drivers license, so the "stalking" issue has been resolved.

Fight the black marker!

Thank you for clarifying that
:-))

We do a great job at 2257safe.com of keeping your records safe and secure- we have over 200 affiliates using our software now in just over a month and a half-

Once the rest of this industry realizes this is a business, and one that has the eyes of the DOJ I expect those numbers to quadruple.

Or- I guess we'll have to wait until another affiliate gets busted for their records.
Apathetic webmasters suck, educated ones use 2257safe.com!

WiredGuy · 08-10-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAmericanCannibal

Or- I guess we'll have to wait until another affiliate gets busted for their records.
Apathetic webmasters suck, educated ones use 2257safe.com!

Has there been cases brought up on webmasters or has it been just limited to first and secondary producers thus far?
WG

08-10-2009, 05:56 AM	#1
C H R I S Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Marina Del Rey Posts: 10,842	*?Tradeshows- ROI- webmasters / programs?* How are you measuring ROI on your marketing efforts? How long does it take you to recoup your investment on a tradeshow? How do the tradeshows compare for you??? If you could see immediate ROI would you attend / sponsor / shows again? How many shows is the right amount for an industry? If you had one single show that you would attend, which one would it be? Webmasters- If it was free would you go? Programs - Would you pay to sponsor webmasters if you were gauranteed traffic? __________________ C H R I S Retired Porn Veteran BH4L

08-10-2009, 06:03 AM	#2
C H R I S Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Marina Del Rey Posts: 10,842	Follow up questions for webmasters- If you were paid to go- all expenses (would you attend? Based on traffic and qualifation. __________________ C H R I S Retired Porn Veteran BH4L

08-10-2009, 06:08 AM	#4
MaDalton I am Amazing Content! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 39,844	in my opinion 2 american and 1 european show per year are enough. Phoenix Forum and Webmaster Access Amsterdam plus maybe one Internext. but only if the prices are re-considered - for advertisers and attendees. i have witnessed about a week ago how you can do a very successful webmaster meeting for $40 per person - all drinks and food included. this industry has to realize that the times of unlimited money are over - thousands of dollars for some button somewhere on a website or a small ad in a magazine that no one reads won't cut it anymore. __________________ AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003 Monetize your content on Veegaz.com - one of Germanies largest VOD sites Got German traffic? We convert it into money for you! Email: oltecconsult [at] gmail [dot] com

08-10-2009, 06:33 AM	#7
C H R I S Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Marina Del Rey Posts: 10,842	2nd Follow up queston- Booths. At our Adult Novelty Expo (100% B2B) we have over 150 booths. Do you think a return of oldschool business ethics is in order... Booths, etc?? If done correctly and booths had traffic. __________________ C H R I S Retired Porn Veteran BH4L

08-10-2009, 06:36 AM	#8
C H R I S Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Marina Del Rey Posts: 10,842	Anyone working on Monday???? __________________ C H R I S Retired Porn Veteran BH4L

08-10-2009, 06:05 AM	#3
OldSchoolJim Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,117	I think when the vegas show was the only one.....it was absolutely the best....definitely too many shows especially for the amount of consolidation going on in this biz.... 3 shows per year imho......vegas, phoenix, miami

08-10-2009, 06:45 AM	#9
oceania Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: on the web Posts: 547	i've been around for ever - but i think the idea of putting a show in a wonderful hotel like the W makes it harder for the average webmaster to be able to attend you have hotel,food, pass, airfare and most important time out of pocket yes it is like a working vacation but a mid-priced hotel and smaller pass price might make it easier for the sponsors to actually see more affiliates and potential affiliates i personally loved the speed networking and the classes/seminars __________________ Radio Dentata - 24/7 internet radio - Uncensored, sexy, informative. Covering B2B and B2C weekly shows. you can follow us on twitter: @radiodentata

08-10-2009, 07:06 AM	#10
jay23 Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,444	We need one show with booths, even if small once. From some one who sells technology this is the most effective way. The cabana stuff does not work.

08-10-2009, 07:29 AM	#11
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	One show a month is sufficient.

08-10-2009, 07:42 AM	#12
seeandsee Check SIG! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe (Skype: gojkoas) Posts: 50,945	i have plan to make ROI 1000% , we will see how will work :D __________________ BUY MY SIG - 50$/Year Contact here

08-10-2009, 07:43 AM	#13
Iron Fist Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 23,400	When you say "webmasters" you mean affiliates or just program owners? __________________ i like waffles

08-10-2009, 08:05 AM	#14
brand0n been very busy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: the queen city Posts: 26,983	you know... i remember the 1st internext i went to.. the cost of the tickets were.. i think.. 125 a pop? if that? and the place was a fucking mad house. then i, like a lot of people watched 2 things continue to happen. the costs to rise, and the amount in attendance decline. and now of course with the most talked about word in in the past 5 years (economy) being where it is, i really think that it might be "biting the hand that feeds you" type deal. rumor i heard was this show you had at best 400 people there.. i think back to when there was 400 people in line on day one just to get a badge... i also remember when every sponsor, no matter how small (remember the likewhoa booth that was a couch?) had to have a spot at internext. had 2! i also remember when there were so many run of the mill webmasters covering the floor that sponsors had crowds of people waiting to talk to in front of booths. seems now all you have is booth a talking to booth b about a cross sale deal. i honestly think that you guys way over pushed the costs.. i really do.. and ive been saying that for years now.. (on this topic me and someone else laughed as we both showed up a day or 2 early and were at the pool drinking drinks, then the show started and the drink prices went up 30%) then the economy tanked on top of it, and people wonder why there is only 400 people at what was once the largest show of the year. so.... you cut out the little guy from going, trying to make as much as you could selling tickets, and that in turn has cut out the people who want to advertise to those little guys as they are not there, so they are gone 2. you should consider revamping the entire system to work with what you have to deal with today. but thatll never happen, and you can say it might, or you can say well look into it.. but lets face the facts here.. the only reason you guys are even compelled to put these shows together is to make as much money as you possibly can. /rant. __________________ want to buy this spot for cheap? it is of course for sale. long term deals are always the best bet. brand0n/ at/ a o l dot commies.

08-10-2009, 08:16 AM	#17
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	I like going to the shows and meeting people. Even though I am a self sufficient enigma and do not need cross deals from others to make a good living. I shoot my own stuff. Generate my own traffic. Doing everything in house. Florida was nice because I had gotten to finally put some names with faces, as well as talk to the live chat, mobile, and cam guys I wanted. Plus hang out with old friends for a nice weekend away. That said, 1 show every 2 months would be enough. That should allow for U.S., Canada, and International shows. As for U.S. shows, it seems most people want one huge show like the Miami, Phoenix, Los Angeles, and Vegas shows to be the 4. I did San Fran (just for you BD) and enjoyed it. It had a nice turn out, all of the seminars were PACKED and you had some awesome information and conversations there. Which is what business is all about. The networking. That said, I agree. Way too many shows when you have lowering attendance and people becoming more selective of the conferences they go to now. Some big names were missing from Miami I would have liked to talk to. __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

08-10-2009, 08:59 AM	#19
TMM_John Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 6,664	Move it to October and I'll be there. 100 degrees and 100% humidity just doesn't work. __________________ Too Much Media - Makers of the Industry's Leading Payite Management Platform, NATS!

08-10-2009, 09:01 AM	#20
Andy CHOOPA Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Red Bank NJ Posts: 1,156	I thought the show was great. Great to meet you Chris. __________________ Andy Choopa ICQ: 412-203-056 DUAL XEONS W/100 Mbps UNMETERED- $199/ month!!

08-10-2009, 09:08 AM	#21
Zorgman Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 6,103	For me, 1 big show a year would be enough. Since I live so fucken far away (Australia). I just can't stand the 17 hour flight from Sydney to LA - It kills me. __________________ ---

08-10-2009, 09:12 AM	#22
ShellyCrash Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 6,708	I think there are more than a handful of different business models out there so not everyone will have the same take, but as someone who works primarily with subscription based sites I view the main objective of having a booth to be new affiliate / webmaster acquisition. For a B to B show, which seems to be where things are headed, a booth wouldn't benefit my companies as much, but if I were a company like - say Iporn for example- who is looking for advertising dollars from other businesses, having a booth and a strong presence at a B2B geared show makes much more sense. I still get value out of attending shows like Internext putting in some face time with the people I do business with who are normally scattered throughout the country, or even world for that matter. As an attendee- setting up a few meetings, putting a few deals in place and staying in contact to make sure things get implemented I can expect to see a return in 1 to 3 months. Also face time isn't as much of a branding exercise, and since it's direct contact the return is easily trackable. On the badge price feedback tip, in speaking with some people trying to get some new blood into the game, the $300 bar for entry was raised a little high. I'm sure I'm not the only one who reached into their wallet to get someone to attend. I don't feel cheaper tickets is the total answer, but I think the cheaper tickets are the more webmasters would consider attending, and possibly the more tickets sponsor programs would be interested in handing out. Also bringing back the webmasters for my business model gives me a justification to bring back the booth. That being said, I did enjoy the show. I got alot of work done but also was able to work in a little play time which was a nice change for me. __________________ Start making money with the hottest hookup site! up to $55 PPS or up to 75% Revshare ICQ 196766477

08-10-2009, 09:14 AM	#23
Chris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: icq: 71462500 Skype: Jupzchris Posts: 27,880	This time a year it seems like we have wayyyy too many shows all bunched up. We have 4 alone in august. 5 in September and 4 in October. All decent shows aswell.... but personally I feel that the shows are more about putting a face to a name rather then worrying about how fast you will make your money back. I stick to one a year now. __________________ [email protected]

08-10-2009, 09:33 AM	#24
Varius Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 6,890	I think someone I was having dinner with Friday night summed things up best: "The shows to me are like high-school reunions; that's why I go". That's not to say business can't still be done nor shows still profitable. I'll use Mojohost as an example as I believe they will have a TON of new customers after this show. They offered something different and interesting (their data centre tours), they were very well attended and as an incentive, they offered the show badge to those who went. Just my guess but including the badge they probably spent $350 a head (badge, transportation, refreshments, food) and I think they will see a nice ROI regardless. That's the kind of model others should follow. Paying $20K for banners around the hotel just isn't worth it to me, especially for already established companies. They are much better served putting that money to something with more of an individual touch, such as dinners or unique events. Some people think if a program has been a top advertiser for shows for years and suddenly stop and do something else, their program must be hurting these days. I would just think they are spending their money smarter. From an affiliate point of view, the few who did attend and who I spoke with shared that the only reason they were there was because they were invited with their expenses paid. They would never pay badge + room + airfare out of their own pocket anymore for a show where as an affiliate, they don't need to attend other than to meet some people they work with or for the parties. With the decline in parties, they see even less reason to go. Since it's very few sponsors who are inviting their affiliates out (and they have valid reason; why risk him meeting other programs who sway him away from you, while he's there on your dime!), that's why you see much less affiliates at shows than you used to. The day we stopped advertising at shows was the day attendance starting going down, yet to combat this, the show organizers decided prices for both attendees and sponsors should increase. That's simply backwards logic and short-term thinking and until it changes expect many companies to agree with me. There's my ultra-long two cents __________________ Skype variuscr - Email varius AT gmail

08-10-2009, 10:08 AM	#27
Varius Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 6,890	Oh, I did want to add one more thing: The Westin staff, once again this year, were extremely friendly which is a nice change from many other venues. Most other hotels would tell us to go to bed instead of bringing us a fresh tray of beers to the pool at 7am and hot, pressed bath robes __________________ Skype variuscr - Email varius AT gmail

08-10-2009, 10:50 AM	#28
Kiwigirl Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 2,556	How are you measuring ROI on your marketing efforts? Depending on what you would consider ROI. I personally did enough biz at internext where my overall cost to attend has been recuperated and that is without doing my follow ups. Anything generated through my follow ups will be profit. How long does it take you to recoup your investment on a tradeshow? How do the tradeshows compare for you??? I personally prefer trade shows that are industry only events. Phoenix and FL show are my 2 favorite shows in the year. As much as I love Las Vegas I find that attending shows there tend to side track people to do other things aside from business which does not make those shows as productive. And there is nothing worse than talking to someone at the bar for 5mins only to discover that they are a tourist and are not in the industry. (especially after buying them a drink! LOL) If you could see immediate ROI would you attend / sponsor / shows again? DUH! LOL YES How many shows is the right amount for an industry? I am happy to attend 1 show every 2-3 months but I include consumer shows in that number so realistically that is say 3 B2B shows a year. If you had one single show that you would attend, which one would it be? Phoenix forum, lunch is included, snack shack is a blessing especially for early morning coffee and late night snacking and being that the entire hotel is booked keeps the affair intimate. Webmasters- If it was free would you go? Phoenix was once a free show to attend and when that was the case there was a huge turn out. There is still a huge turn out for that show but the affiliate niche of attendees definitely thinned out. If badges to a show were free it would be more likely that the event hotel would be sold out and overall attendance would be greater. Programs - Would you pay to sponsor webmasters if you were gauranteed traffic? Yes! I was bull shitting with someone earlier this year about offering a promotional campaign to all their affiliates. The concept was if you send X amount of sign ups you would get an all inclusive trip to a show. These are the kinds of things that are desperately needed however with the overall cost of shows these days it would require a much larger amount of sales to make it of value for any affiliate program to pay for their affiliates to attend. My 2 cents about internext this past weekend.... The show appeared to have less attendance than previous years however it was extremely productive for me. I met lots of new people, seen lots of old ones and managed to accomplish what it was that I set out to do as well as much more. Overall experience - 9/10 (I dropped a number cos I am holding the show coordinators responsible for my tremendous hang over on Saturday morning! lol) __________________ KIWISOURCING OUTSOURCING WITH A TWIST!

08-10-2009, 10:55 AM	#29
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	For starters, all travel for me (and any of you) that is work related, is a tax deduction. So if Uncle Sam isn't getting that money, right there is my ROI. But, if you want to get specific about it, there is no way to tell what it is. I've had ONE deal cash me out enough to cover any show, in any part of the world, for the next 3 years. I've also had deals that ended up hardly covering my expenses. There is just no way to know until you are back and do follow ups with the people you have met, most of which usually don't pan out. What I will say for shows is, it helps solidify your current relationships. Yes, you can talk on the phone and ICQ, but actually going out with them for any amount of time, helps keep things running. I am no longer a show goer, as I am booked solid for years to come with work, but I did go last Jan to AVN and Internext to meet a few guys from here, and hang out with the people I currently work with. The few guys I did meet, business may come later from that, but I know that I WOULD work with them if there was something that we could both profit from later. So in that sense, it was more like planting a potential seed. With all that said, during times when I was looking for work, I will get on a plane and fly anywhere in the world, at any time, to ink a big deal. The same goes for the people I do business with. I've flown across the world for deals and they have flown to me. I've flown from city to city for a few HOURS and the same as been done for me. A deal is a deal and those who know the value of that deal, will do whatever they can, ASAP, to dry that ink. Shows... ehhhh... they are what they are, but I don't believe you need them to make your business grow. My biggest deals never came from shows in the 11 years I've been doing this. But if you want to know, how much do I have to get in return to lock down a deal that will make me 10s of 1000s or even 100k+ over some time? I will spend what I have to spend that is equal to what I will get in return. I know what I'm worth and what my content is worth, so I pay and expect the return accordingly. Last edited by DWB; 08-10-2009 at 10:57 AM..

08-10-2009, 10:56 AM	#30
fris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 55,506	Was already offered to go all expenses paid by a couple companies, but I turned them down. __________________ Since 1999: 69 Adult Industry awards for Best Hosting Company and professional excellence. My Cam Feeds Script Free Templates

08-10-2009, 01:21 PM	#34
madm1k3 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 472	I've been to internext Las Vegas 3 times and everytime there is less webmasters and more and more content shooters and program reps. I find alot of program reps got thier job with thier company from a job interview and never had to make sales to support themselves. I've also heard so much stupid shit come out of the mouths of presenters at seminars that I rarely if ever attend those anymore. Basically for me Internext Vegas is a good winter get away and a chance to party but I know alot of webmasters who could care less about going to shows anymore. I've paid $200, $300 and $150 to go to internext, it should cost about $50 and then charge cover at the parties. Every night I left the internext parties and ended up going to different parties on the strip. Finally if you want more web masters to show up have MORE GIRLS!!! These are porn conventions and last year's internext it looked more like an accountant trade show! __________________ Always looking for trades on Linkspun! Check my Id here

08-10-2009, 01:35 PM	#36
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,631	I used to love going to all the shows, all the way back to when the adult Vegas show was a room in (I think) the Sands during CES. They were fun. As my business evolved to being more an internet business, the shows were great for meeting people who could really push traffic to SpookyCash. And they were fun. Over time, however, I think a lot of the affiliates were made to feel like second class citizens at shows. There started being too many a la carte features where someone could pay a few hundred dollars for badges and still not be invited to the main networking events. That is not particularly fun and the ROI doesn't work for either affiliates or program owners. Add to that industry consolidation and shrinkage, with so many people leaving the industry and so many fewer companies and it is hard to feel like shows are as worthwhile when the odds of meeting any new traffic whales are so reduced. Choice of hotel is probably difficult for anyone trying to throw a show. I know that I have trouble feeling like doing business (or staying) in a low end hotel, but a hotel I'd want to stay in is going to be a more notable budget issue. I just kind of did the math and decided that the ROI on fundamentally $9,000 worth of beer was not that great and the shows were no longer fun enough for me to justify them partly on that basis. __________________ GFY Hall of Famer AltStar Hall of Famer Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio Last edited by AmeliaG; 08-10-2009 at 01:36 PM..

08-10-2009, 02:08 PM	#38
MeganS Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Cali Baby! Posts: 1,487	I'm not sure if there is a way to do this with internet side, but i saw it work VERY well on DVD side. Chris you are probably aware of Expomark. But for those who aren’t ... It is a DVD show that only the studios pay to go. Then all the buyers are brought in for free. It is 3 days and you have meetings ever 30 min. A pager notifies you of the end of the meeting, 5 min to travel to the next meeting. No matter how big or small everyone is forced to meet with everyone. Even if you don't like each other (in that case you pretty much sit there in silence or just do the "hey i showed up ... we have nothing to talk about .. see ya!" or in a few rare instances work out your differences) Being forced to see if there is a way 2 entities can do business is a great idea. I dreaded the idea at first, but quickly loved it. Expomark was responsible for getting the best of the best buyers there, with suggestions from the studios as well. The show attendees were offered breakfast and lunch together. The meetings ran from 9:30 to 5:30 (with a few breaks and lunch thrown in there). Then from that point on some had special dinners, some have special events, some just hung at the hotel bar together. This allowed for the “fun time” to get to know people as well. We were given a questionnaire filled out by every buyer a week before the show. It let you know all their contact info, what products they were most interested in, etc. I was able to create a meeting agenda for each person caters to their needs. Granted the attendance is MUCH smaller than Internext, but I think a modified version of this COULD work. It would allow every program face time with every webmaster/traffic source. Sometimes 15 min of face time so you can follow up later is all you need. That may never happen if people don’t happen to randomly meet and are unaware of each other. Hypothetically you could do this from Noon to 5 each day out by the pool. Make the meetings 25 min, 5 min “travel time”. Make people sign up to do it. And MAKE SURE IT’S A RESTRICTED area since people don’t always abide by the “Don’t bother people while they appear to be in a meeting just to say hi!! rule” Few other random points: -I also suggest doing away with SO many seminars … there really are very few needed. -I also think WAY to many shows are around!! I think 3-4 is more than enough! Just make sure the 3-4 are killer shows, work within peoples budgets and that there is CLEVER marketing options for sponsors. -CAN ANYONE HERE TELL ME WHO SPONSORED THE BAR AT INTERNEXT LAST YEAR (doesn’t count if you’re the sponsor)? CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT 5 COMPANIES SPONSORED SOME PARTY AT PHOENIX FORUM? You get my point … The sponsorship opportunities need to have a major overhaul … and that is NOT Internext specific. __________________ Megan S Broadcast, Licensing and DVD www.nmgmanagement.com

08-10-2009, 02:12 PM	#39
Anthony Keyboard Warrior Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: One of the outer rings of Hell Posts: 9,653	Great post Megan! __________________

08-10-2009, 02:18 PM	#40
TheAmericanCannibal Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,087	I love seeing everyone at tradeshows don't get me wrong- but after 12 yrs of doing this show I passed- I am also glad cause for 2257safe.com there is no ROI to fly to FLA to have a bunch of program owners who are NOT familiar with the law tell me they are in Canada so 2257 doesn't apply to them. WRONG- all US based webmasters need copies of 2257 from their sponsors. Period. Also at $20/ month on the low end I'd much rather put out marketing money into Google Ads and Yahoo... Just my two cents Here is a great review of the AVN show- lol http://www.lukeisback.com/?p=8125 Last edited by TheAmericanCannibal; 08-10-2009 at 02:20 PM..