TheAmericanCannibal

Look up the case of Diamond Jim and Jeff Kilbride in PHX, AZ

Varius

Good seeing you too on our hotel hunt with Jeka

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WiredGuy

Your search - "Diamond Jim" "Jeff Kilbride" - did not match any documents
Google has no idea who they are...
WG

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TheAmericanCannibal

http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=...1#post16168367

In addition to Spam they had no 2257 records at all.

FightThisPatent

i think i will get a great ROI on the show, because of the many european companies who attended the show were looking to break into the US.. and since there are hardly any affiliates there (except wiredguy LOL), they need to figure out how to find the affiliates, so t3report.com was well accepted.

affiliate managers were in attendance, and they also liked the idea that t3report v5 has the "affiliate analysis" that helps them help their affiliates to send them more traffic by reviewing linking structures.

the lack of parties like the prior years was a little disappointing, but it did mean that people were focused on having biz meetings and creating their own parties by inviting people to dinners or to suites.

the networking thing was great, should not allow someone to go be on both days as a first pass. they can have a 2nd day if space is open.. this allows for more people to get face time.

some additional suggestions:

- look at the success of mainstream shows where attendance is free. look at affiliateconvention.com (SEguru) who had over 1200 affiliates attending. Sponsors would certainly want to spend money on sponsorships if they knew affiliates were going to be there.

- have indoor booth spaces like the meet-n-greet. its too muggy to go outside for cabanas to hang with people.

- have a dinner dating thing, where people who come to the shows who don't know anyone, could be paired up with a small group. sorta like they do on cruise ships. could even do matchmaking by letting people check-off what kinds of people they want to meet or just make it random because people have such diverse backgrounds and interests. The two dinners that i went to with a group was great, i met new people that i might not normally have been able to chat with ( catalina cruz and hubby, evan the attorney, jonathan the insurance guy, ben from kick ass, etc)

- porn poker tour was great, as another place to hang out.. the side blackjack tables and roulette table was a nice touch for those not into poker, or who couldn't get into tourney, or who got knocked out.

- basically do more to help people connect.... i can understand how hard it is to meet new people when you have so many that do know each other already. if attendees could have a way to connect, they could get more value out of the face time and see the value of coming out to a show.

- social party situations where its not so loud. i enjoyed my time in sitting out on the deck at one of the suite parties and be able to chat with andy from ccbill. we talked biz and we talked about alot of non-biz stuff like our families, his gardening, his love for racing cars, my new dress making venture, etc. its those personal-able times when you get to connect with people that stand out in my mind as why i love going to the shows. i have been going to the shows for last 4+ years, and i am still finding out that there is so many people that i see all the time, and never get a chance to really get to talk ( i remember a japanese dinner at cybernet expo in san diego and sleazydream was sitting across from me and he was starting to go through his marriage issues and I got to connect to him on a man-to-man level about relationship issues to know he was not like his board persona) .... having a social environment that allows for that opportunity is priceless, and i appreciate and cherish all the conversations I have had with people to learn more about them, and for them to know more about me as being more than "that guy" that posts on the boards about biz/industry issues



Fight the sharing is caring!

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LAJ

Sorry to jack the thread Chris... BUT...

Cybernet Expo... providing ROI for TWELVE YEARS.

Attendance UP in 2009 from 2008.

Tons of webmasters attending.

Don't get me wrong... Summer Internext is my favorite other show ;)

Nuff said.

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TheAmericanCannibal

Props man,
You are almost as spamalicious as i am


lol

jay23

Brandon,

you and me sell software. What format do you think would have been the best. for me the early days of Internext was the best when they allowed us to have booths . I can thank Internext for putting me on the map. I was put in touch with some of the largest programs which i would not have gotten other wise.

jay23

Another show that was mega productive for me was the APAX show AVN had few years back (I think exactly 2 years ago in FL). It was a one day gig but well worth the 1200 or 1400 i paid.

jmk

Asking the right questions

FightThisPatent

i would agree.. a booth would be great, to be able to setup for demos on the computer etc.

the crazy days of the megabooths are probably over... so smaller booth sizes for vendors, kind of like combining "corridor cruising" of cybernet expo with the "meet and greet" tables at internext with having more of a define booth area and for a reasonable rate, maybe like $1k


Fight the corral!

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DWB

Fucking a right I would. I'm would not give them anything, blacked out or not. They are not even getting the models real name. No chance.

If those webmasters can't respect the fact that I would rather protect my models, then they can promote another site. There is never a shortage of webmasters. I feel sorry for the programs who do not have their own traffic sources and are held hostage by webmasters in such a manner.

Some American webmaster doesn't want to push my site over this issue, I frankly don't give a shit. There are countless European and Asian webmasters who will.

DWB

If someone can engineer it, someone can reverse engineer and hack it. I've yet to see something online that wasn't hackable. One leak, all that data is in the wrong hands.

Hey, if it can happen with credit cards and banks, it can happen to you. Hell, it happened to NATS. Shit happens. The safety of my models is more important than that.

TheAmericanCannibal

Again, I am simply stating that this is the LAW.
You do not have to show SSN's or addresses like Brandon mentioned.


Credit cards and Banks use PCI- DSS hosting for their data as well.
How often are banks compromised?

I am not arguing here- just simply stating the facts.
The fact that you hold your models safety higher than making money with more affiliates is your option, again I am just stating what the new 2257 regs state.

and that is that all US based webmasters must have copies of 2257 records from their sponsors, even Canadian and offshore companies.

NOW if these companies are hosting the videos...and have a 2257 page that is a different story.

LAJ

Hey.. I'm tryin man! ;)

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JFK

great seeing you Jay

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gocubbiesjess

First, thx Chris that was a great show!

1. Any marketing efforts have to equate to conversions and sales eventually, however right now we're also building brands so doing longterm, strategic marketing that helps build brand equity, which means establishing us in the industry and networking and building trust with the players here - which means sponsoring shows on occasion as well as sending the teams to shows.

2. Depends on the tradeshow. We try to accomplish different things at tradeshows vs simply just networking all of the time. I would say if you get to implement even just one new product, technology or service that helps your business grow by someone you met at a show then you've already begun to earn your ROI.

3. I've seen immediate ROI from shows with in a month after - seeing ROI after a show is dependent on the team you send to a show, they are responsible for making things happen with the people they met with at a show and not losing momentum.

4. Quality over quantity on number of shows. Both Phoenix and Miami prove to be really successful perhaps because the hotels are rented out entirely for us; easier to do business. However I've heard the Europe show is a huge success because there is untapped traffic and opportunity from those webmasters. I also picked up good business in Vegas this June...but one show every month is too much, or right now there seem to be a lot.

5. If I could attend one single show which one would it be? I can't answer that because I haven't attended every single one.

6. No I still wouldn't attend them all if they were free...free demeans the value in my opinion. You also might get webmasters attending then that aren't there to be serious.

7. Possibly on paying for traffic. Interesting idea....

ShellyCrash

Hey Megan, I can't tell you that but I CAN tell you that your company gave me one of the best pens a few months ago in Vegas that I've gotten to date. It's not that fancy, it doesn't light up, but I love the way it writes. Decent pen w/ good ink. I keep it in my purse. Thanks for that

Never underestimate the power of swag!

Some other awesome items I have appreciated over the years:

RoboMail's silver sharpies they gave away over the weekend @ Internext
The TopBucks (I am pretty sure it was Topbucks) business card booklet I got at Cybernet Expo in San Diego
And Netbilling's lighters. When I was a smoker these were a total lifesaver! Go through an airport, get your lighters nabbed... and there's Mitch and crew to save the day!

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C H R I S

Jay - Jack away brother. I put this thread here to open up dialouge that I feel is sorely needed. I personally don't think the industry in its current state can support all the shows that are currently scheduled and that is evident.

The shows will thin, obviously but I really was just trying to gauge which shows people would want to keep..... I have my faves as everyone does.

To be honest - I would travel like JFK if I could - most of my business comes directly from going to OTHER peoples shows- (I do more business at CYBERNET and XBIZ than i do at my own show because I am running around like a chicken with no head at my show).....

I am NOT trying to CREATE DRAMA - just simply creating dialouge.

And you know exacly how I feel on all points.

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AK

You still owe me a bag Chris!

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DWB

I want to say that I'm not taking a job at your company, I think it's brilliant. So don't take what I say the wrong way.

Yes, it is the law. You are correct. I'm just not going to obey it, in terms of giving webmasters (or a service) that information, even if it's altered. I don't want someone having so much as the models real name. Nada. It's just not safe. I will keep the data and if the US government wants hop a plane to come and inspect it, my door is always open to them, during regular business hours, Thai time.

Regarding banks, they do get compromised from time to time. All it takes in this case is once. In fact, just a few weeks ago was one of the largest hacks on credit card data ever with millions of peoples data stolen. It happens.

I'm not greedy. That extra few grand I may make from some die hard American webmasters simply isn't worth it. I make enough as is and truth be told, the biggest webmasters are usually not American to begin with.

With all that said, I do think you have a great service. It's just not for me.

Barefootsies

Sorry bud. This is a business. You pay to play.

If you can't afford to go to the shows that's fine. Enough with the other excuses. But this industry does not need to be lowing the bar of entry. Free badges, and the rest.

For a long time it has needed to RAISE that bar for entry to this industry and stop giving away everything for free. It is finally getting to that point. Bravo.

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fris

blackhat entry fee is $1000+ in vegas, avn badge prices are chump change compared to that.

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LAJ

Much love back at ya Chris... simply put, Internext fuckin ROCKED for me. As long as your show continues to run... I will be there.

And Hi JFK!

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Kiwigirl

LMAO - that was the whole point as I didn't want my post to stand out.
I hate to have to point this out Chris but if you actually mouse over the text and highlight it as if you were to copy and paste it you would see it clear as day!

In short....I said that I loved the show despite it being 99% business. hehehe

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C H R I S

Lol- I know I read the whole post :-)

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tony286

The sponsor is the custodian for the webmaster, just like you are a custodian.

C H R I S

Bag is on its way AK...

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C H R I S

Just curious - you cant start your own thread.... you already stated that you think tradeshows are a waste of time.

Please promote yourself elsewhere....

I really never did anything to you KB - not sure why you have a beef with me?

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Just Mike

HEy Chris,

I think AVN (As with other Show hosts) need to make a profit...NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. But I would say that all show hosts really need to rethink what value they are giving the webmaster. It's got to be more then just a venue with a few seminars. The attendee price should be back to the old days of under $200. It will make a huge difference in attendance.

I have to say that After 12 years in this biz I have seen almost all the shows there are to be seen ...and I remember all the good ones even way back to the IA2000 days...but honestly from my perspective and the perspective of many webmaster friends we feel there is just not real ROI at any of these shows anymore...at least not in the same way there used to be.

I truly believe a simple way to get that ROI and overall interest back is to kill a few shows. My take is 4 shows a year is sufficient. One show a quarter is doable and gives time to execute on deals from the last show. Not to mention, that if you guys and the other show hosts coordinated with one another to do this you would create a sense of urgency to attend these 4 shows. Everyone would feel if they didn't attend they would have to wait another 3 months till they got an opportunity to biz with certain people.

I have to say that for me personally, PHX forum is our favorite show, then The Webmaster access Amsterdam show, Xbiz show vegas and last Internext Miami....in that order. For me, CCBILL has done a brilliant job of marketing themselves, making a buck and providing a grade service to the webmaster. AVN used to be such a kick ass show I looked forward to every year but the last 3-4 years it slowly waned and I think it needs an overhaul... In my opinion I would scrap internext Vegas and focus on Internext summer and maybe change the venue around each year like they initially tied to do back in 99-2000 with new Orleans, etc....maybe even change the Internext show to a euro venue...as most of us are desperately trying to get Euro business now.

The one thing I can say (not kissing ass, even though it sounds like it) is that with you helping AVN understand what the webmaster community is looking for has made a difference from the way AVN was before. That part is very clear! I just hope they continue to listen to your input.

my 3 cents.

BTW, CALL ME CHRIS! I SENT U A MSG ABOUT THIS WEEK

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FightThisPatent

i posted up what i thought were good suggestions, but you are only replying to the "i love you man" type posts.

am i wasting my time in offering suggestions?


Fight the squeeky wheel!

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C H R I S

Actually I was saving the long ones for when I get back in the office.

I didnt direct that comment at you.....

Call me today or tomorrow.

I am loving all the feedback....

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C H R I S

Excellent suggestions Mike..... I know that you go to tradeshows only when you have something specific to push and I have rarely seen you at shows except vegas and LA

I'll take these suggestions under consideration...

Call me today

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C H R I S

Also Mike - we had badge promos for as little as $100.00

In a perfect world we would qualify all the affiliates and let them in for free or haver them sponsored by programs. Reality in this industry is that affiliates have no interest in attending many shows. Something NEEDS to be done to changer that.

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Thurbs

change the venue up completely .. maybe take it up to Mohegan Sun or Foxwoods up in New England, or Atlantic City, something with convention center or big meeting rooms, casino, and not Vegas.

let the night life draw be something in NYC or Boston based on location. cut down on the sponsored suites, the row of parties always seemed like a distraction from what used to be something bigger and more organized.

one central party / event per night and then nothing but Biz / Seminar / Networking during the day. NY area has plenty of places to golf, get out and do whatever, including some of the best restaurants in the US.

also there needs to be some sort of identity for the show.

if it's going to be heavy on B2B, then it should be marketted as such and geared to that. It has to be more then a gathering, so perhaps service providers should be given Free entry in return to give 10-15% discounts or waived fees to any attendee.

if it's going to be B2C ( programs -> affiliates ), then things need to change up. perhaps for sponsor programs to go, they need to commit to buying out 5 passes for every one employee sent. encourage sponsors to get affiliates there. On top of that, if you're going to market it like this, perhaps you need to structure events geared to affiliates and then solicit sponsorship from the programs as opposed to letting them decide how your show shapes up.

end of the day, some people love alot of shows, however it seems like attendance dictates something very different.

1 AVN show for Biz ( Do the Consumer thing whenever ) - 1 CCBill Show ( Move it to the Phoenician ) - 1 WebmasterAccess in AMS ( Or Ibiza ) , close to 4 months in between each for cool down.

FightThisPatent

contact sponsor programs, and tell them to blast out an email to their affiliates.

they are given a special promo code for each sponsor. the affiliate signs up. their badge will say AFFILIATE on it in place of company name.. so incase a non-affiliate gets the code (ie. a vendor), they might sneak in that approach, but then their company name won't be there. and when you see the scratched out company name, then you know what they did.

because the signup code was specific per sponsor, you know which sponsor was connecting with their affiliates.

give some kind of discount, free badges for every X number of affiliates that signed up, etc so that the sponsor gets something out of helping to advertise for the show.

allow models/talent to get in for free. the show needs more eye candy for the affiliates who remember, are like glorified surfers (except the real biz minded ones of course)


Fight the long posts!

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CurrentlySober

I blame Poppy Morgan..

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DWB

Take yourself out of the office of AVN and into the shoes of an affiliate.

1) Why does an affiliate need to go?

* The affiliate controls his traffic and where to send it. Meeting a program owner face to face is not going to get him a higher payout, which is all that matters. If he is a good affiliate, he is already in contact with the programs he pushes. If he is a "whale" he has already adjusted his payout.

2) Why does an affiliate need to go to a show to bomb barded with shit that he doesn't want?

* Lets be honest here, the bulk of sponsors at the shows are of no use to an affiliate. Truth be told, there are so many shit sponsors, selling garbage and dumb ideas, that it's more annoying than anything. Why subject yourself to that?

3) Affiliates send traffic. That's their job.

* They can their job without ever leaving the comfort of one room in their house or putting on their clothes. Unless they are going to a show to party and get free drinks, why go?

It just doesn't make sense for affiliates to go to shows. Program owners, content producers, third party solutions, billing companies, software... yea, sure, but affiliates, it's a waste of time.

MeganS

Awe thank you! I think you helped make my point. Those pens are cost effective they didn't cost us 10k and they are handy! I am all for parties and banner placement ... PROVIDING i have something to go along with it that max's my return. Now the pen i don't consider max'ing returns ... but you get what i'm saying.

I just think better packages need to be offered and done creatively.

In no way do i think spending 10k for a banner and the OPTION to pay for something and have it stuffed in a show bag is effective. In a lot of ways banners are like Pop Up ads in the real world to me at shows ... my eyes glaze over them. I don't even see them!

Not saying i've got the solution ... i just think shows need to get more creative and look at it from our POV more. For example when i have wanted to sponsor a show lanyard it has ranged between 5k-20k (depending on show) ... BUT THAT DOESNT COVER THE COST OF THE LAYNARD. So i have to shell out that money too. At bare minimum cover that cost! if i want to put something cool in the attendee bag ... that costs me and i still have the cost of the item. I understand the show has to make money, but please stop making me feel like i'm getting bent over ;-)


PS LOVE the netbilling lighters too! I also remember the SpaCash rolling Papers from cybernext several years back (thought it was very clever!)

xoxo,
Megan

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LAJ

Wow no love...

Well Cybernet isn't going away

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FightThisPatent

Austin (my former home town) would be a great venue for a show.

Fight the longhorns!

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Just Mike

Jay,

You know I love you man...I'n sorry didn't mean to exclude. I wrote that at 4am.

Cybernet was really great for us in the past when it was in San diego. I have not been tot he SF or Tampa shows. My partner went to the SF show this year said it was great so I know thats a grt biz show just havent made it there myself to give the testimonial. I will this year.

Miss you man...been to long between sightings LOL

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AWEMPIRE

LAJ

You are redeemed Mike!! ;)

LOL.. thanks man. And yeah, it has been WAY too long. Would love to see you up there!

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Connor

Not sure I agree that people would turn OUT for a show in Austin, but I do love visiting that city... and it's only a short drive for me.

Which brings me to my point... about how many shows to attend, etc. One factor to always remember is location. You may only be able to attend 1 show per year that requires a lot of TRAVEL expenses, but it makes NO SENSE to skip ANY show that is a drive from your location. If you're in CA, it makes little sense to miss a CA show. If you're in FL, why miss Internext? Etc.

Like Mike said, I also remember the IA2000 days. And while I technically agree that ROI isn't what it was then, that's mostly because the industry was just crazy easy back then ... we were ALL making just stupid gobs of money and having a blast. That said, the ROI of shows STILL justify representation by your company in some way. It's less a matter of if you want to attend or not in my opinion, but more a matter of how many people you send, how much you spend there, etc, etc.

I can't remember a single show that YNOT has attended that hasn't resulted in business -- the only way we can mess up is if we spend more than we should while AT the show, which is easiest to do in Vegas because of the nature of that city.

Other than Cybernet Expo of course, my two favorites are Phoenix Forum and Internext Florida. Those two shows have a wonderful atmosphere for networking and building relationships with people in the business. Kudos to AVN and CCBILL for the jobs they do on those two shows.

And I'll add this about Cybernet Expo ... the crowd we attract is actually comparable in size to some shows you wouldn't think ... plus we tend to attract a different crowd. We actually DID have quite a few webmasters/affiliates walking around this year. In other words, if you attend our San Fran show it's probably NOT going to be the same crowd you saw at another show -- or at least a good portion of the crowd won't be the same. That alone makes it, in my biased view, more than worth the cost of adding it to the show schedule for 2010.

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C H R I S

I did that this year - if you were an afilioate of many major programs you recieved passes at $100.00

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Connor

I've heard GREAT things about the show from people so far Chris... congrats to AVN for pulling it off so well in a really tough year.

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C H R I S

Thanks Connor.

Lets work on getting Cybernet pumped!!!

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baddog

Just saw there is a show in Austin next July . . . too bad. I might have gone if they had picked a different time of year.

LAJ

What show are you talkin about? Maybe I can contact the organizers and ask them to accommodate you?

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Connor

You got it man, thanks!

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