STAY AWAY FROM THE SCAMMERS AT LIQUIDBYDESIGN.COM - designers and buyers - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

batdelfuego · 11-28-2002, 11:47 AM

Thanx a lot for all the support guys...

I just want to tell all that I'm starting a new fulltime job here in Montreal on monday and wont be taking any adult design orders... I had to look for work since I was waiting for money that never came...

I wont go out asking for designs like Pornturbo to be taken out because I havent been paid... I'm not like that.. I hate to piss people of... just writing this here on GFY took a lot of tact... I hate starting rumbles...

thanx a lot for the offers that came in today tho...

Fletch XXX · 11-28-2002, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CeKilleR

fletch... i wrote you two messages on icq.. are you ignoring me?

What the fuck?

Its 10 am, I just woke up and its Thanksgiving.

I dont even havfe icq on.

Damn you guys are weird.

Can I brush my teeth first?

deleteduser · 11-28-2002, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch XXX

What the fuck?

Its 10 am, I just woke up and its Thanksgiving.

I dont even havfe icq on.

Damn you guys are weird.

Can I brush my teeth first?

i'll forgive you

Jakk · 11-28-2002, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bibabi
Joe E- the contest page got to long and I wanted to make sure you knew how much we appreciated the opportunity to be involved in the Private Gold contest.

We can't wait to see our design active on the private gold website.

The Liquid By Design staff is looking forward to the future contests and winning lots of money from you =)

Also, a lot of the designers were really great and there is a lot of super talent out there. www.liquidbydesign.com is always looking for talented designers: custom gallery designers, banner makers as of now.

As always Joe E- is a class act and fair when questions arose about the rules and settled it easily.

I am sure the new program, like most everything you do will turn to "GOLD"

again, thanks Joe E and Zebra for a great opportunity, and the chance to show what the newest, and hottest design team around can provide to the adult market.

P.S. Can't wait to spend the 7500.00 I think I am going to take my kids to Disney Land (LOL)

Thanks Again Guys your the best.

designympho · 11-28-2002, 11:57 AM

As an art director/designer with considerable in-house industry experience that has recently gone freelance, trying hard to establish solid loyal professional relationships, I find the situation that's been exposed in this thread and others here lately to be totally disheartening. I, like many other qualified designers who post here, am working day and night, bending over backwards to land jobs and gain some trust and respect in a marketplace now seemingly full of scammers and unprofessional low-balling hacks. I personally have experienced my fair share of cons and empty promises, but thakfully have never fallen victim to those that are determined to be unethical, with the exception of wasting a considerable amount of time trying to weed through the bullshit and establish who is credible and who is not. I don't have any answers, but felt compelled to add my voice to the dialogue in the hopes that together the good folks here can rise while the scum will eventually sink.

Darren · 11-28-2002, 11:57 AM

"Can't wait to spend the 7500.00 I think I am going to take my kids to Disney Land (LOL) "

this is unbelievable.

deleteduser · 11-28-2002, 12:02 PM

"Can't wait to spend the 7500.00 I think I am going to take my kids to Disney Land (LOL) "

Fletch XXX · 11-28-2002, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by designympho
As an art director/designer with considerable in-house industry experience that has recently gone freelance, trying hard to establish solid loyal professional relationships, I find the situation that's been exposed in this thread and others here lately to be totally disheartening. I, like many other qualified designers who post here, am working day and night, bending over backwards to land jobs and gain some trust and respect in a marketplace now seemingly full of scammers and unprofessional low-balling hacks. I personally have experienced my fair share of cons and empty promises, but thakfully have never fallen victim to those that are determined to be unethical, with the exception of wasting a considerable amount of time trying to weed through the bullshit and establish who is credible and who is not. I don't have any answers, but felt compelled to add my voice to the dialogue in the hopes that together the good folks here can rise while the scum will eventually sink.

Fucking weeeell put.

Fletch XXX · 11-28-2002, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darren
"Can't wait to spend the 7500.00 I think I am going to take my kids to Disney Land (LOL) "

this is unbelievable.

Seriously.

Can we not dig up her 'check acceptance' speech too?

I recall a different post claiming to have gotten the check etc...

designympho · 11-28-2002, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch XXX

Fucking weeeell put.

thanks Fletch - I'm just so fucking tired of the bullshit

Undutchable · 11-28-2002, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by batdelfuego
Thanx a lot for all the support guys...

I just want to tell all that I'm starting a new fulltime job here in Montreal on monday and wont be taking any adult design orders... I had to look for work since I was waiting for money that never came...

I wont go out asking for designs like Pornturbo to be taken out because I havent been paid... I'm not like that.. I hate to piss people of... just writing this here on GFY took a lot of tact... I hate starting rumbles...

thanx a lot for the offers that came in today tho...

I hope you're not quitting designs altogether. It's extremely well paid work if you are qualified (and you definitely are). You've had a real bad experience, true, but ít's cuz of a stupid broker. Start for yourself and you will make bank my friend. I wish you the best of luck

Darren · 11-28-2002, 12:17 PM

TRACI SAYDS PRIVATEGOLD DIDNT PAY:

Darren 08/11/20 21:35 just wanted to know did u win the PrivateGold
contest and did u get paid thats all, alot of
fakes competitions going around

Darren 08/11/20 21:37 ?

Liquid 08/11/20 21:38 Well they suck =)~ alright.... let me get stuff
worked with designer and get your shit done

Darren 08/11/20 21:38 ok but u didnt answer my question did PrivateGold
pay u? I have heard a story they didnt pay
someone else, did they pay u?

Liquid 08/11/20 21:38 part of it

Darren 08/11/20 21:39 how much

Liquid 08/11/20 21:40 I don't think I need to tell you that. That is
between me and them

Darren 08/11/20 21:41 and the person who designed the site maybe? ummm.

Liquid 08/11/20 21:41 huh?

Liquid 08/11/20 22:18 PrivateGold paid everything, it just came to my
attention that a design company told their
designer that PrivateGold didnt pay so they could
pocket the money and not give it the designer.
------ Can I ask you why you posted this?

Darren 08/11/20 22:19 because I spoke to Zebra and thought thread was
misleading so needed to explain it. didnt mention
any names. nothing to do with u.

Liquid 08/11/20 22:20 no shit. I taked to XXX Paysite design a few
months back and they hadn't been paid. That is
all I know.

Darren 08/11/20 22:21 paid by who

Liquid 08/11/20 22:21 Ice Cold contest. That is all I knew about not
paid on the contest, other then the scewups with
us.

Darren 08/11/20 22:22 thats ok then. why did u think it concerned u?

Liquid 08/11/20 22:24 Because I am having billing/payment issues with
them

Darren 08/11/20 22:24 are u right?

Well i spoke to Zebra.

Liquid 08/11/20 22:24 and Chad said what?

Darren 08/11/20 22:25 lets just get my sites done.

Liquid 08/11/20 22:28 alright. fine. You want information but you
don't share info =) It is cool. I talked to
David and he is going to finish those for you.

Darren 08/11/20 22:28 u know what chad would have said.

Darren 08/11/20 22:28 thankyou.

Liquid 08/11/20 22:29 Chad would have said all designers got paid in
full for all work they have ever done for us

Darren 08/11/20 22:32 u got paid by check.

Liquid 08/11/20 22:36 no I got paid by bank wire and finally 1 check a
few days ago and they still owe me money. My
question to you is what made you think you had
that right to do that? My designers and my
company are my business.... Any problems I am
having have to do with us, concidering the
designer never actually stopped your projects for
non payroll payments. I am not sure what he told
you but he never told me anything about not
working because of lack of payment to him. I was
behind yep, but there were a lot of other factors
then them

Darren 08/11/20 22:39 well when a designer tells me they cant do
project unless they get paid it becomes my
bizness. I posted on GFY for info and didnt
mention any info etc, i could have said
everything.

Basically i am just highly annoyed at the time
this project is taken.

so ur designer gets the 7.5k then?

Darren 08/11/20 22:42 look i mentioned no names, no harm is done, lets
just do my projects and get shit sorted.

Liquid 08/11/20 22:43 alright. I just am freaked. the designer got
paid a fee and bonus and thats it. Techically he
has been paid, I am behind in other things with
him he worked on a payroll

Darren 08/11/20 22:45 well, u must admit the way I have been treated is
diabolical. I have 200 + affililiates i have to
explain to daily why projects are late.

Liquid 08/11/20 22:45 i no, i would be pissed

Darren 08/11/20 22:46 well i am totally. u accepted the extra work. I
have deadlines to meet and i am losing money and
affiliates every day.

Liquid 08/11/20 22:48 i know i fucked up

Fletch XXX · 11-28-2002, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by designympho

thanks Fletch - I'm just so fucking tired of the bullshit

I know me too.

Some people here dont seem to mind this type of shit though.

It amazes me.

Its almost like if you steal someones content, 'you going down' but designers get ripped like this everyday by these 'Design Brokers' with no talent, they might not blatantly take credit, but when asked to 'show their work' post the good shit from their best designer on staff and its noted as 'their work'.

Its always someone just trying to please their new contact that gets fucked. I can understand someone being eager on a new project, and especially new designer - I know I was eager as hell on some of my first big jobs etc... so these business crooks come in with financial backing and the talk and get the best of the naive designer and their talent.

Its always a case of the person with no talent raping the one WITH talent.

This goes for ANY kind of creativity though, musicians, etc...

sextoyking · 11-28-2002, 12:21 PM

Bat,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. She should of taken care of you and the other ppl working for her.

We have 9 ppl at webinc.com on our team, and they are family here.

happy thanksgiving all

Todd

Brujah · 11-28-2002, 12:33 PM

After hearing the designers point of views though, I can see how a design broker is necessary. These designers know how to design, but they don't know how to get the design work and negotiate for payments, etc. They're happy to get whatever kind of regular work they can. A broker at least helps them eat, pay bills, etc.. until they figure out how to do it on their own.

batdelfuego · 11-28-2002, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brujah
After hearing the designers point of views though, I can see how a design broker is necessary. These designers know how to design, but they don't know how to get the design work and negotiate for payments, etc. They're happy to get whatever kind of regular work they can. A broker at least helps them eat, pay bills, etc.. until they figure out how to do it on their own.

Yep... I suck at dealing my designs... And i know it... i didn't know the adult world too much either... I've learned a lot...

i'm not even thinking about htis money anymore... it's been missing for so long... and this thread just makes me feel sooooo much better now...

cherrylula · 11-28-2002, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brujah
After hearing the designers point of views though, I can see how a design broker is necessary. These designers know how to design, but they don't know how to get the design work and negotiate for payments, etc. They're happy to get whatever kind of regular work they can. A broker at least helps them eat, pay bills, etc.. until they figure out how to do it on their own.

or until they stop getting paid and come here to post about it

good point though... I actually had a design business (interior design not internet stuff) when I was 20 years old. I had a demand for a certain product but was too scared and nervous to talk to the buyer myself, so I used a sales rep with more experience. She made a huge chunk of money off my work, and in the end ripped me off for a bunch of samples. Fucking bitch.

But I learned my lesson. And shortly after found the ability to do my own rep work.

woodyxxx · 11-28-2002, 12:54 PM

Hey Batdelfuego....adult biz is a tough one! Ain't it?

Hope things work out well for you in the future

Jakk · 11-28-2002, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bibabi
Sorry I was getting my nails done and couldn't wait.

Thanks for voting for the www.liquidbydesign.com site.

I can't tell you how excited I am about this..... This is quite a big deal to me and my staff.

Thanks again, and we look forward to competing in the next one.

Also- congrats to everyone who entered... a lot of great designs we entered

EEEEEEEEKS time to celebrate!!!!

cherrylula · 11-28-2002, 01:09 PM

I really hope people start to realize that being greedy will only leave you fucked in the end.

Its one thing to make a profit from someone elses creative works because you are offering a service the designer who might not be capable of doing it themselves, but another thing entirely to push the limit and take advantage of them by price gauging and flakiness in general. And running them around with payment and dicking them over on their cut of the job $.

From my experience aside from graphic design, sales reps take no more than 15% of the total amount, or a 30% markup from the wholesale price. I have seen design reps doubling a designers work, or more. This is not cool at all. Unless you're running a fucking retail store in a goddamn mall, nobody has that much overhead for pimping out design work. Its insane.

InsaneMidget · 11-28-2002, 01:46 PM

I'm not calling them scammers or anything, because I don't know, however, I was going to do work for them which they would resell or whatever, I can tell you they wanted to pay me dirt cheap, like $5 per banners, which they would turn around and sell for $25-30 or whatever. I did a few banners and said I would do the work, but just said fuck it. They have been telling me they could load me up with work for months only to not talk to me for a few weeks, and then tease me again, saying they will bring work to me. Finally they did, then wanted me to work for shitty immigrant prices.

designympho · 11-28-2002, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brujah
After hearing the designers point of views though, I can see how a design broker is necessary. These designers know how to design, but they don't know how to get the design work and negotiate for payments, etc. They're happy to get whatever kind of regular work they can. A broker at least helps them eat, pay bills, etc.. until they figure out how to do it on their own.

Brujah,

With all due respect, I completely disagree and think that such a generalization is not only demeaning but dangerous - perhaps some designers "need" a broker but those that are serious professionals fully understand that this is a business like any other. Although some of the non-creative aspects of the business may not be the most enjoyable, they are absolutely imperative if one is serious and wishes to succeed.

In fact, my experience has been the opposite of what you state - being a professional that will not be taken advantage of, one who negotiates for terms that are appropriate often causes those seeking a designer to head for the hills. Seems that many have grown accustomed to exploiting naive or excessively hungry designers who are willing to give away their work for nothing.

Judging by many comments on this board over the past several months (and my ongoing experiences), there is clearly a prevalent lack of respect for designers and their craft - in part perpetuated by designers themselves, in part fueled by the unchecked ignorance of those seeking designers. I suppose it's true that ignorance is bliss.

In any case, it is a sad situation for all those trying to do honest work with integrity for just and honest compensation and mutual respect.

Brujah · 11-28-2002, 01:54 PM

Designympho, but where else can they turn when they don't have the first clue and need to make some money ? A design broker can help them out in a situation like that. That doesn't mean that the broker needs to pay something like $5 for a banner while they charge the client $25, or pay a designer $400 for a design that earned them $7500. Thats being a bit too greedy perhaps and designers will eventually figure that out and either go solo or work for a broker who will pay them better. Some people have connections and sources and can get all the clients they want, while other talented designers can't. Maybe they're all not as knowledgable, confident or resourceful as you are.

InsaneMidget · 11-28-2002, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brujah
Designympho, but where else can they turn when they don't have the first clue and need to make some money ? A design broker can help them out in a situation like that. That doesn't mean that the broker needs to pay something like $5 for a banner while they charge the client $25, or pay a designer $400 for a design that earned them $7500. Thats being a bit too greedy perhaps and designers will eventually figure that out and either go solo or work for a broker who will pay them better. Some people have connections and sources and can get all the clients they want, while other talented designers can't. Maybe they're all not as knowledgable, confident or resourceful as you are.

i agree

designympho · 11-28-2002, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brujah
Designympho, but where else can they turn when they don't have the first clue and need to make some money ? A design broker can help them out in a situation like that. That doesn't mean that the broker needs to pay something like $5 for a banner while they charge the client $25, or pay a designer $400 for a design that earned them $7500. Thats being a bit too greedy perhaps and designers will eventually figure that out and either go solo or work for a broker who will pay them better. Some people have connections and sources and can get all the clients they want, while other talented designers can't. Maybe they're all not as knowledgable, confident or resourceful as you are.

Point well taken. My impression was that you were making a statement about all designers and perpertuating a stereotype about artists not being able to handle business matters. Now I understand that was not your point - thanks for clarifying.

Certainly a broker or agent may be useful to some - especially those just starting out. I am not suggesting that no one should entertain such a relationship. Needless to say, some of these issues are unavoidable in a free market. It's just frustrating to hear about and experience so many negative situations in this industry lately.

As I said, I'm not claiming to have the answers, just felt a responsibility to lend my voice for whatever it's worth.

batdelfuego · 11-28-2002, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by InsaneMidget
I'm not calling them scammers or anything, because I don't know, however, I was going to do work for them which they would resell or whatever, I can tell you they wanted to pay me dirt cheap, like $5 per banners, which they would turn around and sell for $25-30 or whatever. I did a few banners and said I would do the work, but just said fuck it. They have been telling me they could load me up with work for months only to not talk to me for a few weeks, and then tease me again, saying they will bring work to me. Finally they did, then wanted me to work for shitty immigrant prices.

dont get caught man... I got the same bullshit... Yeah I got paid a few times... but I had to tell them almost everytime... I did so much freebies in the begining... They told me they would make me rich!! Well I guess she relly went to Disney World with my money instead of making business in california like she told me...

AM Jeff · 11-28-2002, 03:26 PM

Thats fucking BS.

I KNOW Private Gold Pays.

Their Parent company advertises on Alt Masters and have for almost the last year.
They are constantly asking me to send them invoices, even thou..they are paid up several months.

Too many designers out there getting fucked.
Todd gets his portfolio ripped off.
Too many fucking scammers looking for a quick buck.
Low balling designers that do shit work.

I, myself quit doing custom design work for people.
I now only do stuff for N3Tpond, Alt Masters when they need something and for a few old customers.

People have NO idea the shit we have to put up with from customers.

I done work for Darren a while back on the penis Enlargment site and he was very plesant to work with.

Liquid needs to be ran outta biz.
I wander if they are owned by Lovematch?...lmaoooooooooo

EasyAdult · 11-28-2002, 03:30 PM

Try us..

We make Adult sites for years, and we're cheap.

dead cheap.

100$ for a CJ site

200$ for a Paysite

15$ /hour for logo's/flash/php/javascript/

Do it the easy way!

Overseas design.... and hosting...

Hosting:

60$ month, for 800MB 100GIG / month.

sternyduke · 11-28-2002, 03:41 PM

nice spam bitch

Snake Doctor · 11-28-2002, 03:42 PM

I bought some design work from liquidbydesign a couple of times, and they were SLOW AS SHIT getting my stuff done.

I even asked ahead of time, "How backed up are you? How long will it take you to turn around this order?" And Traci said, oh we've got time, we can get it done quick.

After about the 3rd email/ICQ message I sent a week later when I was still waiting for my stuff that was only supposed to take 48 hours, she told me they were "working on it" and I got it the next day.

I later found out that they were outsourcing the work to another designer who's published prices were 30% cheaper than liquid's. They would send this designer the order and say "This was supposed to be done last week, do it quick"

That designer would then crank out the design in 24 hours and liquid would pocket the difference between their price and the price of the person who did the work.

Anyhoo, since then I found out who they were outsourcing the work to, and I just go straight to that designer. I get the same designs, much quicker, and a good bit cheaper.

Just an FYI, Traci sent out an ICQ spam last week
http://www.amateurcamslive.com/
http://www.amateurcamscash.com/

Check out our the new addition to Savage Entertainment. Converting 1:225
If you have lots of traffic give me a yell and we can see what we can do about a higher conversion rate for you

So I'm guessing that's their program. (Maybe that's where all the designer's money went to?)

batdelfuego · 11-28-2002, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lenny2

Just an FYI, Traci sent out an ICQ spam last week
http://www.amateurcamslive.com/
http://www.amateurcamscash.com/

Check out our the new addition to Savage Entertainment. Converting 1:225
If you have lots of traffic give me a yell and we can see what we can do about a higher conversion rate for you

So I'm guessing that's their program. (Maybe that's where all the designer's money went to?) [/B]

I designed the amateurcamslive.com site for her... she told me this would get so much money that she could pay me back... i guess it's not making money... Or it is... and i get shit...

Naughty · 11-28-2002, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sternyduke
nice spam bitch

Yeah, and serious BS. For 15$ an hour he's not only killing the design industry, he also might consider another job, as he would make more cash at McDonalds. Maybe we should have the Dutch IRS pay him a visit to see if he pays taxes ... probably not, or a youngster working his way trough high school (which is okay, but not here

)

Naughty · 11-28-2002, 04:22 PM

Not to mention using stolen software, at those rates, who can afford 2000$+ software packages.

Teen Angel · 11-28-2002, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brujah
Why do designers do contract work for other people ? Why not setup your own shop ?

You shouldn't have much trouble getting work, especially if you designed the winning site for Private Gold.

And for $400 ? You better triple those prices.

That is EXACTLY what I do! Occasionally if I am slow I take work from others but majority of my work is from my very own clients.

InsaneMidget · 11-28-2002, 04:52 PM

just wanted to clear up, that I wasn't calling them scammers or anything, just wasn't sure about the disposition they had when talking with me, and paying dirt cheap for jobs didn't impress me much either. All they talked about for months was getting me to design these "reality paysites" that they needed right away, then never heard from them for weeks, then about a month later, same bullshit about them needing these same reality sites done right away.

SetTheWorldonFire · 11-28-2002, 05:35 PM

whoa! just saw this thread.

I think it's way too easy to be a design broker. If you have the power to hire designers then just start your own inhouse design firm. webinc says and claims he has 9 designers. He never takes full credit for any site. top notch work btw.

I think anyone doing biz with a client should be honest. let it be known that you are broker and not the designer.

and for you designers that need work. make sure you get contracts from your broker. cover your ass cause it's a jungle out there

archer · 11-28-2002, 06:28 PM

i don't think anyone has said this but that private gold site of batdelfuego's really rocks

This site design is enough to make me want to play for the home team. It's that good!

sextoyking · 11-28-2002, 06:43 PM

Hi Set,

thanks for the post.

Well the team at webinc.com all 9 of us, do a super duper job for our customers. From high quality design to excellent customer service.

I really never ever take credit for the designs, as I don't design 1 thing, I can barely draw a smiley face

)

I am not the broker, I run the company, and do sales and marketing. My project manager and me are partners in this venture.

Thanks

Todd Ostrer
[email protected]
-------------------------------------------------

I think it's way too easy to be a design broker. If you have the power to hire designers then just start your own inhouse design firm. webinc says and claims he has 9 designers. He never takes full credit for any site. top notch work btw

SeeSea · 11-28-2002, 06:54 PM

I too have had this experience -- not directly with Traci - as I knew better after dealing with her partner Pensfan/Duane/BuckNaked/Nitro or whatever nick he uses. My gut feeling is he is Traci too. Although I do not have proof.

A year ago, I made a verbal agreement with him. The MO is exactly the same as what he did to me and my partner. We were promised $500 per site, he handed out bunches of sites to be created and then forgets to pay or "As soon as the client pays". We did sites that he did not want listed in our portfolio because his clients thought he was doing the design. After we refused to do any more work for him until he paid he found other designers to do the work. I have spoken with a few. We all decided not to say anything because he had us believing his job at adult.com was so important to him, and as long as he was working there was a hope of getting paid. I have to say though, AFTER bitching at him to pay, he only owes me $850 now. So he did try to pay along the way. He still owes my partner nearly the same amount.

I am fed up with it now. I should have come forward sooner, I appologize for not.

Recently I received an ICQ message from Traci Daily (liquidbydesign) asking if I would be interested in outsourcing and when I asked if "she" was still affiliated with Pensfan, she said no. As I said I can't prove it, but I feel Traci and Pensfan are one and the same. If not, they sure have taught each other well. But I see it as both are crooks. I spoke with Traci on the phone a year ago when she was Traci Carson - a sales person for 1 Prospect, at that time she admitted to not knowing how to design and needed me to do something for a presentation for her.
So when "she" won the contest I "knew" someone else had done it but thought it was pensfan. (Sorry Bat - great design btw!)
Bat -- my partner was one of the runners up and got paid more than you did for the winning design. THAT IS A CRIME!

Because of my experience with Pens and talking with the other designers that had bad experiences with him, I wanted to start a design brokerage site where designers's could get a fair shake. I put it on hold because I did not have the money to back me up. I am glad now that I did... seems now all design brokerage companies will have a bad name.

New designer's beware!

batdelfuego · 11-28-2002, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by archer
i don't think anyone has said this but that private gold site of batdelfuego's really rocks

This site design is enough to make me want to play for the home team. It's that good!

Thanx Archer... ;)
i really did put the shit on that site... i hope it converts good for IceCold too...

batdelfuego · 11-28-2002, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SeeSea
I too have had this experience -- not directly with Traci - as I knew better after dealing with her partner Pensfan/Duane/BuckNaked/Nitro or whatever nick he uses. My gut feeling is he is Traci too. Although I do not have proof.

A year ago, I made a verbal agreement with him. The MO is exactly the same as what he did to me and my partner. We were promised $500 per site, he handed out bunches of sites to be created and then forgets to pay or "As soon as the client pays". We did sites that he did not want listed in our portfolio because his clients thought he was doing the design. After we refused to do any more work for him until he paid he found other designers to do the work. I have spoken with a few. We all decided not to say anything because he had us believing his job at adult.com was so important to him, and as long as he was working there was a hope of getting paid. I have to say though, AFTER bitching at him to pay, he only owes me $850 now. So he did try to pay along the way. He still owes my partner nearly the same amount.

I am fed up with it now. I should have come forward sooner, I appologize for not.

Recently I received an ICQ message from Traci Daily (liquidbydesign) asking if I would be interested in outsourcing and when I asked if "she" was still affiliated with Pensfan, she said no. As I said I can't prove it, but I feel Traci and Pensfan are one and the same. If not, they sure have taught each other well. But I see it as both are crooks. I spoke with Traci on the phone a year ago when she was Traci Carson - a sales person for 1 Prospect, at that time she admitted to not knowing how to design and needed me to do something for a presentation for her.
So when "she" won the contest I "knew" someone else had done it but thought it was pensfan. (Sorry Bat - great design btw!)
Bat -- my partner was one of the runners up and got paid more than you did for the winning design. THAT IS A CRIME!

Because of my experience with Pens and talking with the other designers that had bad experiences with him, I wanted to start a design brokerage site where designers's could get a fair shake. I put it on hold because I did not have the money to back me up. I am glad now that I did... seems now all design brokerage companies will have a bad name.

New designer's beware!

My god SeeSee i never thought that happened to you too... I just can't beleive so many designers got caught i their web... I know about some others designers who dont come here to whom Traci owes money...

And i also know that Pensfan/Duane/BuckNaked/Nitro whatever is affiliated with Traci/bibabi... she told me he would maybe buy the company (LiquidByDesign) and she could then pay me with that money... Pensfan/Duane/BuckNaked/Nitro is still looking for designers.. he asked me to work for him one week ago...

Please does any other designer had anything to do with those guys, either Traci/bibabi or Pensfan/Duane/BuckNaked/Nitro... There is also a SlickWilly, Tracie's partner who made me believe he wiretransfered money into my account...

And like SeeSee says, we are maybe dealing with a multiple personnallity disorder here...

SetTheWorldonFire · 11-28-2002, 07:12 PM

batdelfuego

i just saw you portfolio! daaaayuuuuum! that's top notch work.

UnseenWorld · 11-28-2002, 07:14 PM

I used to do print media graphic design for ad agencies, and it was "We can't pay you because we haven't been paid by the client." I wanted to say, "Am I working for them or am I working for you? You called me and booked my time, so I'm working for you. If you are having problems collecting from them, it's not fair to make it my problem...I've discharged my duties." Unfortunately, as you web designers know, you try to hang onto whatever clients you have until they prove they don't deserve it, so I never said anything.

SR · 11-28-2002, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by batdelfuego

My god SeeSee i never thought that happened to you too... I just can't beleive so many designers got caught i their web... I know about some others designers who dont come here to whom Traci owes money...

And i also know that Pensfan/Duane/BuckNaked/Nitro whatever is affiliated with Traci/bibabi... she told me he would maybe buy the company (LiquidByDesign) and she could then pay me with that money... Pensfan/Duane/BuckNaked/Nitro is still looking for designers.. he asked me to work for him one week ago...

Please does any other designer had anything to do with those guys, either Traci/bibabi or Pensfan/Duane/BuckNaked/Nitro... There is also a SlickWilly, Tracie's partner who made me believe he wiretransfered money into my account...

And like SeeSee says, we are maybe dealing with a multiple personnallity disorder here...

I'm SeeSea's partner and what she said is true.
Pensfan is paying but it's taking a long long time.
I'd say don't do any work for them unless you get paid 100% upfront.
Traci is a bigtime conartist and I have serious doubts if she really is a real person or a made up character by someone.
And she/he/they should pay you 100% for the winning design that you created for the IceColdCash contest. Great job btw.

batdelfuego · 11-28-2002, 07:23 PM

thanx again guys... I'm flattered...

The money from the contest as been spent by Traci/bibabi on a DisneyWorld trip... I wont see any green anytime soon...

And I'm definetly not working for them ever again... ever...

Is that true you think if i never signer any papers giving the copyrights to LiquidByDesign of the designs I did for her, they are still MY sites?

SeeSee I sent you an ICQ... if you didn,t get it can you add me to your list? (#8830035)... I got something to ask you...

SeeSea · 11-28-2002, 07:33 PM

going to icq now.

smiles

SeeSea · 11-28-2002, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by batdelfuego

And i also know that Pensfan/Duane/BuckNaked/Nitro whatever is affiliated with Traci/bibabi... she told me he would maybe buy the company (LiquidByDesign) and she could then pay me with that money... Pensfan/Duane/BuckNaked/Nitro is still looking for designers.. he asked me to work for him one week ago...

Oh interesting stuff... would be a perfect solution huh? Buy out the "bad girl" and straighten up the company huh? How is he going to buy it? He still owes us? And some others as I hear it. Can I ask how you got affiliated with pens? He is a great guy to talk with... I really liked the guy... but then don't all con artist's have that appeal? How else can they con you?

Pens if you have not conned me, then why haven't you paid us in full after a year?

Brujah · 11-28-2002, 07:45 PM

bat,
any work you don't get paid for, belongs to you. If another company is using it, they are doing so fraudulently. The transaction between the seller and buyer was done so in fraud. You have every right to demand anyone using your unpaid designs remove it until you are paid in full. The burden lies on the buyers to deal with the company who sold them unauthorized stolen work.

batdelfuego · 11-28-2002, 07:50 PM

You cannot believe how Traci has been to me... She kept saying we were friends... Or that i was part of her family... showing pics of her kids and talking about her private life to me... I trusted her... so much... I believed all she said... i forgave all her late paiements of the ones she didn't give me...

Thes people play the game so well... Best actors you will ever find...

thanx Brujah... this is really good to know... ;)

Brad Mitchell · 11-28-2002, 08:06 PM

This ought to be fun... I purchased all of these domains and associated site designs from Traci:

http://www.amateurnymphos.net
http://www.amateur-spotlight.com
http://www.bustynymphos.com
http://www.christianschoolgirls.com
http://www.easycollegegirls.com
http://www.extremepartygirls.com
http://www.face-fuckers.com
http://www.guzzlingnymphos.net
http://www.hardcorediary.com
http://www.lipsticklovin.com
http://www.schoolgirlhoneys.com
http://www.shockingamateur.com
http://www.twistedtoonz.com
http://www.upskirtnymphos.com
http://www.xxxmoviepass.net

I've already had one designer approach me and say that they were not paid for the work they did by her. I have not yet launched any of these paysites yet. This was not work I contracted her to do, these were assets that I purchased after "whomever" decided they were not going to make use of these sites.

If there is anyone else out there that did not get paid for any of the above design work, please let me know on ICQ. I'd like to get any more surprises out of the way, if possible.

Sincerely,

Brad

11-28-2002, 11:47 AM	#51
batdelfuego Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 56	Thanx a lot for all the support guys... I just want to tell all that I'm starting a new fulltime job here in Montreal on monday and wont be taking any adult design orders... I had to look for work since I was waiting for money that never came... I wont go out asking for designs like Pornturbo to be taken out because I havent been paid... I'm not like that.. I hate to piss people of... just writing this here on GFY took a lot of tact... I hate starting rumbles... thanx a lot for the offers that came in today tho... __________________ ..::Adult Convulsions \|\| Adult entertainment design::.. www.aconvulsions.com www.dconvulsions.com ICQ# 8830035 \| AIM: batdelfuego

11-28-2002, 11:57 AM	#55
designympho Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 68	As an art director/designer with considerable in-house industry experience that has recently gone freelance, trying hard to establish solid loyal professional relationships, I find the situation that's been exposed in this thread and others here lately to be totally disheartening. I, like many other qualified designers who post here, am working day and night, bending over backwards to land jobs and gain some trust and respect in a marketplace now seemingly full of scammers and unprofessional low-balling hacks. I personally have experienced my fair share of cons and empty promises, but thakfully have never fallen victim to those that are determined to be unethical, with the exception of wasting a considerable amount of time trying to weed through the bullshit and establish who is credible and who is not. I don't have any answers, but felt compelled to add my voice to the dialogue in the hopes that together the good folks here can rise while the scum will eventually sink. __________________ ART DIRECTION : DESIGN : DEVELOPMENT http://adult.roomn8.com [email protected]

11-28-2002, 11:57 AM	#56
Darren Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,994	"Can't wait to spend the 7500.00 I think I am going to take my kids to Disney Land (LOL) " this is unbelievable. __________________ Penis enlargement / male enhancement pills - earn up to $229.48 per signup ICQ: 46335817

11-28-2002, 12:02 PM	#57
deleteduser Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Europe Posts: 2,218	"Can't wait to spend the 7500.00 I think I am going to take my kids to Disney Land (LOL) " __________________ ICQ #58981463 Promote my PornAccess Site: 2Chicks1Dick

11-28-2002, 12:17 PM	#62
Darren Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,994	TRACI SAYDS PRIVATEGOLD DIDNT PAY: Darren 08/11/20 21:35 just wanted to know did u win the PrivateGold contest and did u get paid thats all, alot of fakes competitions going around Darren 08/11/20 21:37 ? Liquid 08/11/20 21:38 Well they suck =)~ alright.... let me get stuff worked with designer and get your shit done Darren 08/11/20 21:38 ok but u didnt answer my question did PrivateGold pay u? I have heard a story they didnt pay someone else, did they pay u? Liquid 08/11/20 21:38 part of it Darren 08/11/20 21:39 how much Liquid 08/11/20 21:40 I don't think I need to tell you that. That is between me and them Darren 08/11/20 21:41 and the person who designed the site maybe? ummm. Liquid 08/11/20 21:41 huh? Liquid 08/11/20 22:18 PrivateGold paid everything, it just came to my attention that a design company told their designer that PrivateGold didnt pay so they could pocket the money and not give it the designer. ------ Can I ask you why you posted this? Darren 08/11/20 22:19 because I spoke to Zebra and thought thread was misleading so needed to explain it. didnt mention any names. nothing to do with u. Liquid 08/11/20 22:20 no shit. I taked to XXX Paysite design a few months back and they hadn't been paid. That is all I know. Darren 08/11/20 22:21 paid by who Liquid 08/11/20 22:21 Ice Cold contest. That is all I knew about not paid on the contest, other then the scewups with us. Darren 08/11/20 22:22 thats ok then. why did u think it concerned u? Liquid 08/11/20 22:24 Because I am having billing/payment issues with them Darren 08/11/20 22:24 are u right? Well i spoke to Zebra. Liquid 08/11/20 22:24 and Chad said what? Darren 08/11/20 22:25 lets just get my sites done. Liquid 08/11/20 22:28 alright. fine. You want information but you don't share info =) It is cool. I talked to David and he is going to finish those for you. Darren 08/11/20 22:28 u know what chad would have said. Darren 08/11/20 22:28 thankyou. Liquid 08/11/20 22:29 Chad would have said all designers got paid in full for all work they have ever done for us Darren 08/11/20 22:32 u got paid by check. Liquid 08/11/20 22:36 no I got paid by bank wire and finally 1 check a few days ago and they still owe me money. My question to you is what made you think you had that right to do that? My designers and my company are my business.... Any problems I am having have to do with us, concidering the designer never actually stopped your projects for non payroll payments. I am not sure what he told you but he never told me anything about not working because of lack of payment to him. I was behind yep, but there were a lot of other factors then them Darren 08/11/20 22:39 well when a designer tells me they cant do project unless they get paid it becomes my bizness. I posted on GFY for info and didnt mention any info etc, i could have said everything. Basically i am just highly annoyed at the time this project is taken. so ur designer gets the 7.5k then? Darren 08/11/20 22:42 look i mentioned no names, no harm is done, lets just do my projects and get shit sorted. Liquid 08/11/20 22:43 alright. I just am freaked. the designer got paid a fee and bonus and thats it. Techically he has been paid, I am behind in other things with him he worked on a payroll Darren 08/11/20 22:45 well, u must admit the way I have been treated is diabolical. I have 200 + affililiates i have to explain to daily why projects are late. Liquid 08/11/20 22:45 i no, i would be pissed Darren 08/11/20 22:46 well i am totally. u accepted the extra work. I have deadlines to meet and i am losing money and affiliates every day. Liquid 08/11/20 22:48 i know i fucked up __________________ Penis enlargement / male enhancement pills - earn up to $229.48 per signup ICQ: 46335817

11-28-2002, 12:21 PM	#64
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	Bat, Sorry to hear about your troubles. She should of taken care of you and the other ppl working for her. We have 9 ppl at webinc.com on our team, and they are family here. happy thanksgiving all Todd __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

11-28-2002, 12:33 PM	#65
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	After hearing the designers point of views though, I can see how a design broker is necessary. These designers know how to design, but they don't know how to get the design work and negotiate for payments, etc. They're happy to get whatever kind of regular work they can. A broker at least helps them eat, pay bills, etc.. until they figure out how to do it on their own. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

11-28-2002, 12:54 PM	#68
woodyxxx Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Montreal,Quebec Posts: 139	Hey Batdelfuego....adult biz is a tough one! Ain't it? Hope things work out well for you in the future __________________ 35$ Per Signup.Feel a little Xtreme?

11-28-2002, 01:09 PM	#70
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	I really hope people start to realize that being greedy will only leave you fucked in the end. Its one thing to make a profit from someone elses creative works because you are offering a service the designer who might not be capable of doing it themselves, but another thing entirely to push the limit and take advantage of them by price gauging and flakiness in general. And running them around with payment and dicking them over on their cut of the job $. From my experience aside from graphic design, sales reps take no more than 15% of the total amount, or a 30% markup from the wholesale price. I have seen design reps doubling a designers work, or more. This is not cool at all. Unless you're running a fucking retail store in a goddamn mall, nobody has that much overhead for pimping out design work. Its insane.

11-28-2002, 01:46 PM	#71
InsaneMidget Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,767	I'm not calling them scammers or anything, because I don't know, however, I was going to do work for them which they would resell or whatever, I can tell you they wanted to pay me dirt cheap, like $5 per banners, which they would turn around and sell for $25-30 or whatever. I did a few banners and said I would do the work, but just said fuck it. They have been telling me they could load me up with work for months only to not talk to me for a few weeks, and then tease me again, saying they will bring work to me. Finally they did, then wanted me to work for shitty immigrant prices.

11-28-2002, 01:54 PM	#73
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	Designympho, but where else can they turn when they don't have the first clue and need to make some money ? A design broker can help them out in a situation like that. That doesn't mean that the broker needs to pay something like $5 for a banner while they charge the client $25, or pay a designer $400 for a design that earned them $7500. Thats being a bit too greedy perhaps and designers will eventually figure that out and either go solo or work for a broker who will pay them better. Some people have connections and sources and can get all the clients they want, while other talented designers can't. Maybe they're all not as knowledgable, confident or resourceful as you are. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

11-28-2002, 03:26 PM	#77
AM Jeff Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The House Of Rage Posts: 1,320	Thats fucking BS. I KNOW Private Gold Pays. Their Parent company advertises on Alt Masters and have for almost the last year. They are constantly asking me to send them invoices, even thou..they are paid up several months. Too many designers out there getting fucked. Todd gets his portfolio ripped off. Too many fucking scammers looking for a quick buck. Low balling designers that do shit work. I, myself quit doing custom design work for people. I now only do stuff for N3Tpond, Alt Masters when they need something and for a few old customers. People have NO idea the shit we have to put up with from customers. I done work for Darren a while back on the penis Enlargment site and he was very plesant to work with. Liquid needs to be ran outta biz. I wander if they are owned by Lovematch?...lmaoooooooooo

11-28-2002, 03:30 PM	#78
EasyAdult Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NL Posts: 31	Try us.. We make Adult sites for years, and we're cheap. dead cheap. 100$ for a CJ site 200$ for a Paysite 15$ /hour for logo's/flash/php/javascript/ Do it the easy way! Overseas design.... and hosting... Hosting: 60$ month, for 800MB 100GIG / month. __________________ If you can't join 'em .. beat 'em <b><a href="http://www.easyadult.nl/forum">EASYADULT</a></b><h6> "the only way to trade with dutch webmasters" signup today!</h6>

11-28-2002, 03:41 PM	#79
sternyduke Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: scottsdale Posts: 1,082	nice spam bitch

11-28-2002, 03:42 PM	#80
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	I bought some design work from liquidbydesign a couple of times, and they were SLOW AS SHIT getting my stuff done. I even asked ahead of time, "How backed up are you? How long will it take you to turn around this order?" And Traci said, oh we've got time, we can get it done quick. After about the 3rd email/ICQ message I sent a week later when I was still waiting for my stuff that was only supposed to take 48 hours, she told me they were "working on it" and I got it the next day. I later found out that they were outsourcing the work to another designer who's published prices were 30% cheaper than liquid's. They would send this designer the order and say "This was supposed to be done last week, do it quick" That designer would then crank out the design in 24 hours and liquid would pocket the difference between their price and the price of the person who did the work. Anyhoo, since then I found out who they were outsourcing the work to, and I just go straight to that designer. I get the same designs, much quicker, and a good bit cheaper. Just an FYI, Traci sent out an ICQ spam last week http://www.amateurcamslive.com/ http://www.amateurcamscash.com/ Check out our the new addition to Savage Entertainment. Converting 1:225 If you have lots of traffic give me a yell and we can see what we can do about a higher conversion rate for you So I'm guessing that's their program. (Maybe that's where all the designer's money went to?) __________________ sig too big

11-28-2002, 04:22 PM	#83
Naughty Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Utopia Posts: 6,482	Not to mention using stolen software, at those rates, who can afford 2000$+ software packages.

11-28-2002, 04:52 PM	#85
InsaneMidget Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,767	just wanted to clear up, that I wasn't calling them scammers or anything, just wasn't sure about the disposition they had when talking with me, and paying dirt cheap for jobs didn't impress me much either. All they talked about for months was getting me to design these "reality paysites" that they needed right away, then never heard from them for weeks, then about a month later, same bullshit about them needing these same reality sites done right away.

11-28-2002, 05:35 PM	#86
SetTheWorldonFire Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: California Posts: 7,444	whoa! just saw this thread. I think it's way too easy to be a design broker. If you have the power to hire designers then just start your own inhouse design firm. webinc says and claims he has 9 designers. He never takes full credit for any site. top notch work btw. I think anyone doing biz with a client should be honest. let it be known that you are broker and not the designer. and for you designers that need work. make sure you get contracts from your broker. cover your ass cause it's a jungle out there __________________ www.STWOFDesign.com hit me up on icq 154206276 or Skype: JaimeGizzle

11-28-2002, 06:28 PM	#87
archer Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,721	i don't think anyone has said this but that private gold site of batdelfuego's really rocks This site design is enough to make me want to play for the home team. It's that good! __________________ Looking to promote uncut cock? Check out Uncut Cash. It rocks.

11-28-2002, 06:43 PM	#88
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	Hi Set, thanks for the post. Well the team at webinc.com all 9 of us, do a super duper job for our customers. From high quality design to excellent customer service. I really never ever take credit for the designs, as I don't design 1 thing, I can barely draw a smiley face ) I am not the broker, I run the company, and do sales and marketing. My project manager and me are partners in this venture. Thanks Todd Ostrer [email protected] ------------------------------------------------- I think it's way too easy to be a design broker. If you have the power to hire designers then just start your own inhouse design firm. webinc says and claims he has 9 designers. He never takes full credit for any site. top notch work btw __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

11-28-2002, 06:54 PM	#89
SeeSea Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Confusion Posts: 79	I too have had this experience -- not directly with Traci - as I knew better after dealing with her partner Pensfan/Duane/BuckNaked/Nitro or whatever nick he uses. My gut feeling is he is Traci too. Although I do not have proof. A year ago, I made a verbal agreement with him. The MO is exactly the same as what he did to me and my partner. We were promised $500 per site, he handed out bunches of sites to be created and then forgets to pay or "As soon as the client pays". We did sites that he did not want listed in our portfolio because his clients thought he was doing the design. After we refused to do any more work for him until he paid he found other designers to do the work. I have spoken with a few. We all decided not to say anything because he had us believing his job at adult.com was so important to him, and as long as he was working there was a hope of getting paid. I have to say though, AFTER bitching at him to pay, he only owes me $850 now. So he did try to pay along the way. He still owes my partner nearly the same amount. I am fed up with it now. I should have come forward sooner, I appologize for not. Recently I received an ICQ message from Traci Daily (liquidbydesign) asking if I would be interested in outsourcing and when I asked if "she" was still affiliated with Pensfan, she said no. As I said I can't prove it, but I feel Traci and Pensfan are one and the same. If not, they sure have taught each other well. But I see it as both are crooks. I spoke with Traci on the phone a year ago when she was Traci Carson - a sales person for 1 Prospect, at that time she admitted to not knowing how to design and needed me to do something for a presentation for her. So when "she" won the contest I "knew" someone else had done it but thought it was pensfan. (Sorry Bat - great design btw!) Bat -- my partner was one of the runners up and got paid more than you did for the winning design. THAT IS A CRIME! Because of my experience with Pens and talking with the other designers that had bad experiences with him, I wanted to start a design brokerage site where designers's could get a fair shake. I put it on hold because I did not have the money to back me up. I am glad now that I did... seems now all design brokerage companies will have a bad name. New designer's beware! __________________ 49% Bitch, 51% Sweetheart ICQ: 354719

11-28-2002, 07:12 PM	#92
SetTheWorldonFire Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: California Posts: 7,444	batdelfuego i just saw you portfolio! daaaayuuuuum! that's top notch work. __________________ www.STWOFDesign.com hit me up on icq 154206276 or Skype: JaimeGizzle

11-28-2002, 07:14 PM	#93
UnseenWorld Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Portland, OR, USA Posts: 5,279	I used to do print media graphic design for ad agencies, and it was "We can't pay you because we haven't been paid by the client." I wanted to say, "Am I working for them or am I working for you? You called me and booked my time, so I'm working for you. If you are having problems collecting from them, it's not fair to make it my problem...I've discharged my duties." Unfortunately, as you web designers know, you try to hang onto whatever clients you have until they prove they don't deserve it, so I never said anything. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

11-28-2002, 07:23 PM	#95
batdelfuego Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 56	thanx again guys... I'm flattered... The money from the contest as been spent by Traci/bibabi on a DisneyWorld trip... I wont see any green anytime soon... And I'm definetly not working for them ever again... ever... Is that true you think if i never signer any papers giving the copyrights to LiquidByDesign of the designs I did for her, they are still MY sites? SeeSee I sent you an ICQ... if you didn,t get it can you add me to your list? (#8830035)... I got something to ask you... __________________ ..::Adult Convulsions \|\| Adult entertainment design::.. www.aconvulsions.com www.dconvulsions.com ICQ# 8830035 \| AIM: batdelfuego Last edited by batdelfuego; 11-28-2002 at 07:26 PM..

11-28-2002, 07:33 PM	#96
SeeSea Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Confusion Posts: 79	going to icq now. smiles __________________ 49% Bitch, 51% Sweetheart ICQ: 354719

11-28-2002, 07:45 PM	#98
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	bat, any work you don't get paid for, belongs to you. If another company is using it, they are doing so fraudulently. The transaction between the seller and buyer was done so in fraud. You have every right to demand anyone using your unpaid designs remove it until you are paid in full. The burden lies on the buyers to deal with the company who sold them unauthorized stolen work. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

11-28-2002, 07:50 PM	#99
batdelfuego Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 56	You cannot believe how Traci has been to me... She kept saying we were friends... Or that i was part of her family... showing pics of her kids and talking about her private life to me... I trusted her... so much... I believed all she said... i forgave all her late paiements of the ones she didn't give me... Thes people play the game so well... Best actors you will ever find... thanx Brujah... this is really good to know... ;) __________________ ..::Adult Convulsions \|\| Adult entertainment design::.. www.aconvulsions.com www.dconvulsions.com ICQ# 8830035 \| AIM: batdelfuego Last edited by batdelfuego; 11-28-2002 at 07:59 PM..

11-28-2002, 08:06 PM	#100
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	This ought to be fun... I purchased all of these domains and associated site designs from Traci: http://www.amateurnymphos.net http://www.amateur-spotlight.com http://www.bustynymphos.com http://www.christianschoolgirls.com http://www.easycollegegirls.com http://www.extremepartygirls.com http://www.face-fuckers.com http://www.guzzlingnymphos.net http://www.hardcorediary.com http://www.lipsticklovin.com http://www.schoolgirlhoneys.com http://www.shockingamateur.com http://www.twistedtoonz.com http://www.upskirtnymphos.com http://www.xxxmoviepass.net I've already had one designer approach me and say that they were not paid for the work they did by her. I have not yet launched any of these paysites yet. This was not work I contracted her to do, these were assets that I purchased after "whomever" decided they were not going to make use of these sites. If there is anyone else out there that did not get paid for any of the above design work, please let me know on ICQ. I'd like to get any more surprises out of the way, if possible. Sincerely, Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999