Do you know that it didn't? My point exactly. 99% of such world events seem so serious at the time especially to those who are involved in the situation enough that it is considered local politics. I'll take the bet. No WWW III.

WWW III always seems to be starting for someone. On this board alone 9/11, Lebanon/Israel and US/Iraq were all predicted by some to be leading to WW III. And now it is Russia/georgia? Or is it Iran/Israel? Or maybe US/Iran. The reality is different.

the top news story on CNN.com today is "New Year's baby's death shatters family". By Monday we'll be back to Paris Hilton covers.

I don't work in Pentagon. So I can't answer to your question.

youtube.com/watch?v=WtdVS8646GI

censorship on US TV again
:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

It's better to post the videos like this:

Seems they just lost a line LOL

ADL Colin, can't you see these "lost a line incidents" are pieces of some system? Who needs it? Why? I have expressed my point of view very clearly. Do you have your own vision? Share it with us then.

Let me see if I understand. So you think the US plan is to use propaganda to remove Russia's allies (exactly whom i am not sure) and then to start World War III by attacking Russia (with what goal in mind?). So the US will attempt to bomb Russian cities and land an army somewhere in say Europe or Asia with the goal of driving on - eventually - Moscow?
Assuming the US could even do this and was approaching Moscow on some nice spring day the US would assume also that the russians would not threaten it with nuclear weapons? this is what you mean? And even if it were to achieve success and defeat the Russians then what?

Yes I think so. The same propaganda in western TV was just before the US attack on Belgrade.

Just watching a joint press-conference of Saakashvili and Condoleezza. And what you think? Saakashvili has said that Russia has bombed and destroyed Tshinvali(Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?????????!!!!!!!!!!!) Can you believe in that? And you know that spoiled whore Condoleezza has agreed with him. If you don't understand the meaning of it, your are totally blind.

BAM! The truth comes out, here is what this all about

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26203430/

WARSAW, Poland - An agreement that will allow the United States to install a missile defense battery in Poland exposes the ex-communist nation to an attack, a Russian general said Friday.

Poland and the United States struck a deal on Thursday to deepen military ties and place a missile interceptor base in Poland.

Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the Russian general staff told reporters Friday that the agreement exacerbates U.S.-Russian relations that are already tense because of fighting between Georgian and Russian forces. He said the deal ?cannot go unpunished.?

And in the strongest threat Russia has issued in reaction to plans to put elements of a missile defense system in former Soviet satellite nations, the Interfax news agency quoted Nogovitsyn as saying Poland was risking attack.

?Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike ? 100 percent,? Interfax quoted Nogovitsyn as saying.

Moscow had previously threatened to redirect missiles toward Poland if the country agreed to host elements of the missile shield.

Washington says the planned system, which is not yet operational, is needed to protect the U.S. and Europe from possible attacks by missile-armed ?rogue states? like Iran. The Kremlin, however, feels it is aimed at weakening Russia?s missile force.

Propaganda machine is in action on TV here too lol.

I'm just amazed how they get away with it.

Haha. Rouge states like Iran, lmao. Irans best missle can barley reach eastern Turkey. It is just SO ovbious this missle defence system is aimed at Russia.

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?i...onid=351020602

'Timing of missile deal betrays US intent'

Russia says the timing of a controversial US-Poland deal to base a missile defense shield in Europe betrays Washington's true intention.

Russia's NATO envoy told Reuters on Friday that The US has shown that Russia is the true target of its planned missile defense shield by signing a deal with Poland during an international crisis over Georgia.

you are off by a few miles

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/missile/shahab-6.htm

The Shahab-6 is expected to have a range of 5,470-5,500 and 5,632-6,200 kilometers with a 1,000-750-500 kilogram warhead. This range capability will depend on the number of stages used in the launch vehicle and their performance. December 1996 news reports claimed that Iran is developing a 3,500-mile (5,632 kilometers) range missile called Shahab-6 that would be capable of reaching Europe. The technology for this system was cited as coming from Russia and North Korea. Reportedly the missile would become operational by the year 2,000, though others reports claim that Iran intends to complete the development of this system within five to ten years. Presumably this missile will turn out to be a totally redesigned Taep'o-dong-2/NKSL-X-2 Iranian first stage derivation with new redesigned shorter larger diameter second and third stages

Add to it Irans quest for a space program/intercontinental ballistic capabilities

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/missile/iris.htm

Propaganda on western TV? how does that differ from the propaganda on Russian TV biased towards the opposite view? i was in Germany, Russia, England and the US during this time and noticed the western world seemed to focus a lot on the genocidal aspect of things and the killing of Albanians and running them off... and Russia focused exclusively on KLA being terrorists. In Russia, there was only one side of the story being shown...ever. From start to finish.

Was the "western media" making up all the towns being burned and their inhabitants being forced to leave with boys/men being separated and shot?

how far did that "media conspiracy" go? why was all of western Europe and the US showing the same thing with Russia not showing it at all? must have been a huge conspiracy! one big enough to get the UN involved and NATO countries to agree to stop it.

At the end of the day, you are just as biased as those you claim are biased. Thats what makes you look so ignorant. You can only address serious, valid points with more questions because you know the answers or know you can't answer.

Russia is Russia.

Russians razed Grozny to the ground in the first war. Hundreds of millions of dollars was set aside to rebuild... with a few 10's of millions actually making it without being stolen.

I know many many Russians who fought in Chechnya on contracts... all with the same stories of sweeping apartment buildings by going door to door and throwing grenades through the door... waiting for them to go off and then if they see a body inside, they put an AK-47 next to it and shot it on video. I could go on and on forever about the horrible shit Russia has done (just as the US or any other country does in war).

BTW... how did that second Chechnyan war start? Were you in Russia? I was.

How did Putin get elected after Yeltsin resigned? He had only been Prime Minister for like 6 months and Russians for the most part, had no idea who he was.

What event catapulted him to being elected President of Russia???

Were you watching Russian news everyday during this time? I was. Were you watching all the obviously faked propaganda of Chechen rebels attacking Russian border posts, raids into Dagestan and elsewhere? I was.

Were you watching apartment buildings in Moscow full of innocent, sleeping people being blown up, to be immediately blamed on Chechen terrorists who NEVER claimed responsibility for it? I did.

Do you know anyone involved directly in the prosecution of the apartment bombings cases? I do.

We you watching the Russian government scare the shit out of people nationwide with "Operation Whirlwind" right after? I was.

Do you know people who went to Chechnya to fight for 500.00-600.00-700.00 a month? I know many. Do you remember the stories about Grozny and elsewhere in the first war where the Chechens had schoolgirls trained as snipers? Ever sit around a camp fire doing shots of vodka and watch someone break down and cry as they talk about kidnapping, raping and killing more girls than they could count, just because they might be snipers? I have.

I could go on for ages about shit you seem to know nothing about.

Russia's hands are no more clean than anyone else's. Russia's media is more biased by far than ANY western media.

At the end of the day, a world power and a thorn in their side squared off... georgia miscalculated and lost. Russia has been waiting for this for a long time and if you are so dumb you think this wasn't planned months in advance and with the full knowledge of the US and other western governments, you are naive beyond help.

Trying to characterize this situation as Russia being the innocent party just trying to do good and help is absurd and retarded. They want to protect pipelines... they want to flex a little muscle to the world in a way that won't backfire, they want to show some determination and resolve in protecting its own interests.. they want to build public support for the government.

It's no coincidence that a Russian general is on the news today warning Poland that they risk attack if they allow NATO to put a missile defense system on their soil.

Russia has been in a weak position for a decade and a 1/2 with nothing but poorly trained military and garbage equipment and no money to fix anything. A few years of astronomical oil prices and they are in a position to make up for lost time and reestablish themselves as a force to be reckoned with in the world and they are doing it. Period. End of story. it's no more complicated than that. Thinking they give a fuck about how many peace keepers are/were at risk is incredibly naive.

I'm pretty sure they don't have the Shahab 6 yet, i was talking about their current invetory. Anyway, if Europe wants a missle defence system, they will put it there, no need for the US to get involved.

just making sure he reads this.

And you think American's goal is the invasion and occupation of Russia? for Abrams tanks to surround the Kremlin???

https://youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ
have a look people :) very informed video. A guy from fox look a very stupid and surprise.

so you're of the mindset that is it better to wait until your enemy has a capability before you do anything to counter it?

Seems the leaders of the EU disagree with you about putting in place a missile defense shield themselves, they seem to want the US do it

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/04/wo...pe/04nato.html

I cannot decide if it is amusing or sad to watch you thrashing around calling everyone who does not automatically believe the latest propaganda directive from the Kremlin a "brainwashed moron." But what is even more absurd is your constant threats of nuclear annihilation to whomever will not fall in line and allow Russia to operate however it wants. I am comforted by the fact that Russia is governed by rational people like Putin and not lunatics like yourself. Then I would be worried.

Obviously the Western media is biased against Russia.... that hardly means there is no freedom of speech in the US. It only means that the media is biased. You can see people exercising their right to free speech on thousands of blogs. The media in the US may be corporate controlled (just like it is state controlled in Russia) but there are still thousands of sources of information in the US. If you want to see state censorship try China. To say there is no freedom of speech in the US is patently ridiculous. The board you are on right now proves otherwise. It is you who has been brainwashed.

I dunno about that. Putin is KGB and he seems to be getting a bit nuts as of late.

I think it's recurring childhood fears that haunt him, feelings of insecurity and living with a small penis must take it's toll eventually. I got no idea why Russia has such a hard time dealing with imaginary threats nor why they want to boast a strong military and try and brag about it. I can not recall anyone since the Nazi's threatening Russia with an Invasion of some sort. They live better than ever these days doing awesome trade with AMerica and Europe. Why they wanna shut that down?

Russia's Military is decrepit and outdated so stomping around other peoples land is especially dangerous. Kinda like the type to bring a knife to a gun fight.

Agreed. And I hope that NOW Russian government will do everything possible to fix this situation ASAP. Especially because all this oil/gas money was spent for various bullshit but not for a modern weapon :2 cents:

Perhaps. Time will show.

Because from July 15th and 3 weeks after US troops trained and prepared the Georgian army for the attack on Southern Ossetia. Israel also provided 1000+ advisors, intel and equipment. The misreporting is intentional. There's those out there whom speculate that the attacks on Ossetia were due to US & Israel instigation.

Iran is about as much of a threat as Togo. It is scaremongering crap, they have stated many times Nuclear weapons is against Islamic law and they dont intend to build nukes, the NIE says they abandoned their nuke program 5 years ago if they had one at all, and it turns out Ahmedinejad didn't even say Israel should be wiped off the map - he was mistranslated (on purpose or not is for another discussion) - so, everything looks fine n dandy dosent it? The Media are twisting things with Iran like we are seeing with Georgia and Russia now.

And don't cite the EU or NATO as a source, the EU is now a fascist dictatorship and NATO has turned into some bizarre colonial bro's club, what is "North Atlantic" about Ukraine and the rest of the East european countries they are trying to recruit?

Ahmedinejad has threatened to destroy Israel countless times. The idea that he is being mistranslated is total nonsense.

I havent heard him say "We will destroy Israel" 'Unprovoked' - only if they attack first, he has promised a crushing response. I haven't read otherwise.

And anyway, it dosen't matter at all what Ahmedinejad says because he is not in control of the armed forces.

Absolutely correct. But can I ask you a question? Where have you got all this information? I'm just curious.

2cykoe6: Let's summarize my "brainwashed" point of view:

1) Georgian army has attacked Russian peace keepers and South Ossetian civilians. The mentioned military operation "Clean Field" has caused a real humanity catastrophe. True or not?

2) Georgian army has been trained and equipped by USA and Israel. True or not?

3) A whole western media was keeping silence during all the time while Georgian army was slaughtering South Ossetian people, but it (western media) started screaming in unison about "Russian aggression" right when Russia came to South Ossetia in order to protect its citizens (hint: note the thread title). True or not?

4) Today Saakashvili - the president of Geargia in presence of United States Secretary of State made a statement that his army hasn't attacked South Ossetia. He even told that Georgia was always helping the Ossetian people, but Russian army came to South Ossetia and destroyed Tshinvali, and Condoleezza hasn't pulled him up but just nodded assent to his words. True or not?

5) CNN has showed pictures of destroyed Tshinvali and told it was Gori like it was bombed by Russian army. FOX was not happy when 12yo girl told the truth about Georgia. The program announcer even said something like: "Now you said that Russians wanted to hear". Personally to me that means that FOX hasn't wanted to show any objective info but only wanted to show something that "Russians don't want to hear" which is at least not ethical for a NEWS channel. Almost the same story with other western news channels. True or not?

6) The target #1 for the USA is Iran and Iranian oil/gas. And the USA is preparing for a war against that country. True or not?

7) If there will be a straight war between the USA and Russia we all will end up with a nuclear catastrophe (what? I've said that again? ;)) True or not?

8) Russia don't have any reason to expand its territory to other countries (e.g. Georgia, Ukraine and EU) just because there are no resources in those countries and following to a simple logic, such an expansion is irrational for a resource-rich Russia where is np energetic crisis and which is happy to sell oil and gas to other countries but don't give it away for free to feed any occupied territories. True or not?

9) Russia has no other way to protect their citizens and it's military operation was the only possible response to stop slaughtering people and decrease the death toll as it possible. True or not?

You can quote each point above and explain me which exactly one is wrong and why.

Thank you.

Bullshit what do you think Hezbollah is?
Where do them fuckers get money and weapons? Iran dude.
They even train in Iran. Hezbollah is nothing more than another arm of Iran.

Iran has every intention of bringing down Isreal and fomenting problems in the Middle East..

If there is a fire in a desert Iran's presence is there.

Guess Pakistan disagrees

This is true. There no doubt that Georgia attacked South Ossetian civilians with rockets and tanks and caused a large of amount of civilian causalities in an act of unnecessary aggression.


This is also true.


True. The Western media's bias against Russia in this conflict has been shameful.


True. Saakashvili is a liar. He started the war by slaughtering South Ossetians and now he runs to the US to try and get himself out of the mess he created.


True. The Western media's bias against Russia in this conflict has been shameful.


False. The US (along with Britain, France, Israel, Saudi Arabia and many others) are legitimately concerned about the potential consequences of Iran getting nuclear weapons. The US has no chance of seizing Iranian oil. In Iraq the US has spent billions of dollars, has received no oil and instead has paid $140 per barrel to import it. There have been no economic benefits of the invasion. The idea that the US went to war for oil is so absurd as to be laughable. Just look at the results. We have not siezed any Iraqi oil fields and we are paying 5 times as much to import oil. Furthermore no one is contemplating a ground invasion of Iran or an attempt to steal their oil fields. Obviously any military action against Iran will only increase the amount that the US must pay for oil when they import it.

That is why the US is trying to avoid a conflict. The facts are, however, that Israel has every reason to attack Iran to try and stop them going nuclear. Given the potential ramifications of such an attack then the US and the West has a lot of incentive to try and talk Iran down from the brink. Iran has stated many times that if they go nuclear they will attack Israel. Given this fact it can be assumed that Israel will attack first to try and stop that from happening. No matter what you think of Israel no one can expect them to just wait to be annihilated. Israel will attack first (as well they should, the Government of Israel has obligation to try and protect their people from extinction). Obviously the consequences will be horrible so that is the purpose to try and stop Iran from going nuclear while there is still time.



True. The US would never consider any military attack against Russia for obvious reasons. No one in the US has suggested otherwise. Even the hardest of the hawks has not said that their is any military option against Russia. An attack against nuclear armed Russia would be suicide. Who in the US is calling for war against Russia? All of the suggested moves have been diplomatic. Your repeated implications that the US is considering military actions against Russia are nonsense.



False. Russia has many strategic reason to be interested in Georgia and the Ukraine. The primary interest in Georgia is the pipeline that runs from Azerbaijan though Georgia and Turkey. This is the only route for Caspian oil which does not go though Russia or Iran. By controlling this route Russia would have complete control over the regions oil supplies.

The strategic interest in the Ukraine is even more important. Ukraine has said that they will not renew the Russian's lease to allow the Russian fleet to use the port at Sevastopol in 2017. This would mean that there was no adequate place for The Russan Black Sea fleet to dock which, would mean that they could no longer control the Black Sea. Worse than that for Russia, if it becomes a NATO port then NATO would control the Black Sea. This is of HUGE strategic import to Russia.

I am sure you are aware of these strategic issues and only downplay them because they are inconvenient to your points.



True. Russia had every right and a moral obligation to come to the aid of the South Ossetians (Russian citizens) who were being slaughtered by the Georgian military. The US and Israel should be ashamed to have been associated with a premeditated attack on civilians like that. The Western media's attempts to portray Russia as the aggressor and Georgia as the victim have been disgusting.

cykoe6, thanks a lot for your comments I'll explain you on those "false" ones tomorrow. Now I'm going to watch a move and go to sleep :)

Oh, now you're an expert in Middle east conflict..

http://rebelwithacause.files.wordpre...06/retard.jpeg

This thread is very long.

Well you are entitled to your opinion about Iran but I'd rather trust experts who actually have first knowledge on the subject versus some who... what are you international credentials again?

Why shouldn't I cite NATO/EU sources when you claim the that the EU doesn't want the Us missile shield? Sorry to burst your bubble but your claim was false and proven so

What do i think it is? I think it is a Shi'a Islamic political and paramilitary organisation based in Lebanon.[3]At present, Hezbollah is a significant force in Lebanon's politics. The groups is now a major provider of social services, which operates schools, hospitals, and agricultural services for thousands of Lebanese Shias. (Wikipedia)

Pakistan is Sunni. Iran is Shia. This is basics.

You're right, i have no credentials and i am just telling you my opinion, i don't claim to be an expert either. Except i deal with facts, not false dumb rhetoric which leads to pointless wars.

The whole world, including me would be concerned about Iran obtaining nuclear weapons, but first of all there needs to be proof that they are. which there isn't.

The way the world works is innocent untill proven guilty, not guilty untill proven innocent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082201447.html

Ok, we are both can only guess about that but don't know it for sure. We have only theories so far. Let's wait and see what will happen - will the USA attack Iarn or not.

Sorry but you are wrong. What is a reason to occupy Georgia just to control the pipeline? As we say here: "игра не стоит свеч". That's is very simple because the control of one more pipeline (you know that Russia is already controlling a lot of them) is not profitable because Russia will need to feed Georgians, spend money on keeping that region under control etc. w/o any guaranty that the pipeline won't be moved to Armenia... Following to your logic, it's better to invade Azerbaijan because it's not just a total control on pipe which can be moved to Armenia in case if Russia invades Georgia, but also a total control on the RESOURCES which is much more profitable. But for some reason Russia has never attacked Azerbaijan. These are facts and a simple logic. Right?

So Russia come to Georgia to protect its citizens in South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Mission accomplished and Russian forces will be moved back within a couple of days. You'll see that yourself.

Once again: a shitty pipeline is not a reason to invade Georgia it's just a Saakashvili's BS he's trying to spread via western media. You already confirmed that Saakashvili is a liar and western media bias against Russia. If Russia wanted a REAL control of the pipeline and the resources it would invade Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan instead. Just take a look at the map to understand what I'm talking about:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commo...st-georgia.jpg

Russian pipeline "Southern stream" kill "Nabucco" pipeline in Georgia. Georgian pipeline do not have gas for work. Economic sense is zero. Only losses.

There is no reason to occupy Georgia, and people of Russia of it doesn't want.
Russia with pleasure would leave from Northern Caucasus, but it will mean permanent wars on southern borders of Russia. And this southern border is a plain. Here is not present any natural boundaries - large rivers or marine passages and etc.

Northern caucasus is full of ethnic contradictions, people of northern caucasus will be at permanent war. Northern Caucasus for Russia is burden (economic, political and etc.)

Exactly.

cykoe6 and buzzy: there is a very interesting theory of war in South Ossetia (who? when and why?): A Trap for Russia (translated)

I'd suggest you to read it if you really want to find the truth. I won't to say it will answer to all the questions, however there is some very interesting info to think about.