Wed. 9/11/2002. What's your point?

I just thought i would add a few things to this

Im a amoerican and iam proud of it , i really do not feel so many hate us as lots say . I have live in many countrys and i never get we hate you we hate you .
i think that there is alot of people jelus of us for the fact they cannt get into our country,
But what is very funny to me ,, all the american food place ,,, and the american tv and musice every where ...


but to the people that do claim to hate us ,, if you fell this way why come to a board that is american owned ???
why want our money or time ???

and why did you learn to speak the way we do ,

and for a person that doesnt like how we are or who or what we stand for and lives there then go back to where you are from , why would you want to be there any way ??

that is all of my

:2 cents: :2 cents: i have to say

I love American big tits

I wish I could titty fuck a big tit American doris some day

Well it seems like we have finally come to common ground.:1orglaugh

Well...I'll start with just two...how about the World Wide Web (a brit) and IRC (Finnish).

Hmm..well most of this is actually intellegent discussion so I will jump in a bit.

In my experience of living in the United Kingdom I have found very few that hate American people. When you talk to them about the United States (I am an American so I am always getting people talking to me about the country when they hear my accent) they will talk with high praise about the times they have visited the country.

For some it is very superficial things like they enjoyed like wide roads and huge portions and for others it was actually the nice people they met there. However, if the conversation changes to the government most all are unimpressed. In most of their minds when they complain about America they are complaining about the government not the individual people.

We have to face that our goverment does alot of things on 'our behalf' and most of it Americans living within the country never know is going on. I love America. Unlike most of you I have to go out of my way and make extra efforts to fullfill my responsibilities as an American (ie voting..takes months of planning to get the ballot, etc..taxes...don't get me started). If I hated the country I wouldn't bother and would just drop my citizenship and become British. So, when I say anything bellow this do not take it as being anti American. Also, I am a sociologist so that is kind the angle I am taking.

Right...Arrogance. Dang, if had a penny of everytime I heard that as a complaint. If you live in the States of course you are proud and well you should be..it is your home. However, it would do a lot of good for international relations if you would for one moment think that other people have the right to feel exactly the same way about their own homes.

I read a Billy Bryson book a while back (he is an American journalist the live in the UK) and he recanted a conversation he over heard in resturant somewhere in the midwest. The couple had a Swedish exchange student with them and asked her 'so, <fill in girls name>, which do you like better Sweden or the good old USA' . The girl paused, and said 'Oh, I think Sweden'. The couple responded as if they took it as a major insult that she didn't conceed that the USA was so much better than her own country. I mean, how dare she be proud and prefer her own society. She wasn't saying the USA was bad..she was just saying it wasn't her first choice.

In a much larger sense that is what a lot of 'non americans' feel the attitude of the United States is towards them. If someone in another country, lets pluck New Zealand out of the air, stands up and says 'Wow, I really like living in New Zealand. It is such a pretty country.' They aren't allowed to just say that and hold that view. Nope, instead they will be smacked down with 'you are wrong..it can't be pretty because the USA is pretty..far prettier' If anyone on a personal level would constantly get a reaction like that they would start to resent the person saying it.


Ignorance:

Most countries have so many neighbors they can't not know about the rest of the World. The situation of the United States in the world allows it the luxury of staying insular. Sadly, insular has become ignorant. Of course this is not all Americans but like so much in life is the the ignorant that are the loudest and get heard. So, when people hear an American version of the 'facts' based on what they were told on their insular news papers and news stations it is often frusting to the rest of the world because they either witnessed it or were given more facts.

Yet, try telling most Americans they were told the wrong thing...impossible they will scream. I can't tell you how many times I have had someone from back home tell me somethinng in the news about the UK happened one way when I live here and witnessed it but I have to be wrong because Americans are NEVER wrong.

So, that often means that from the perspective of the rest of the world the American public form their opinions with out all of the facts. This isn't always the case but it has happened enough to make pther nations weary.

It is like WW2. I don't want to go indepth on this because living as a yank in the UK i have this debate (on various sides of the argument) on a regular basis and it gets old. However, you can not understand modern Europe if you don't understand their individual experiences of the the War. It gets reflected in modern politics everday.

Just yesterday I was listenng to a call in on the radio about Iraq. For a lot of ther older people calling in they were using WW2 as either the reason to back the United States or the reason not to support them. For some, there is a HUGE amount of resentment that (and I am qouting one lady) 'it took Pearl Harbor to get them interested' ..others are greatful that we helped in the end regardless of how long it took.

However, for everyone of you that goes on and on about how the US saved Europe..I want you to fly here and tell that to the face of an elderly Brit and see their reaction. Oh, I think it might take about two seconds before one of them mentions the war debt.

What debt? The one they were made to pay back the United States while Germany didn't have to. The one that meant that the British were on food rations until 1954.

Oh and did you know that while the British were starving durring the war American soldiers were well known for flaunting their food infront of locals...particuarly chocolate. Not to mention the large number of American soldiers that got British women pregnant and then fucked off home.

Ever hear the term 'Over fed, over sexed and over here'? Well..guess who inspired that.

They will never put down the braveness of those killed but it is just like the Swedish girl..Americans can not just say 'we fought too'. No, you have to say 'we lost more people'..whien is is *SO* not true. I wouldn't call it hate. I would call it a grudge.

Recently, an American guy that I kind of know came over here and we met up in a club with a group of my friends. He was going up to every woman he fancied and giving them a charm bracelet commemerating the WTC. Everytime he handed it out he said 'I thought we should share with you what it feels like to be bombed'. Stop and think about the arrogance of that for a second. Here he was in a city that still has unexploded WW2 bombs in the ground (one about 500 yds from where I am sitting) - not to mention a terrorist bomb or two - and he is telling them they don't know what it is like to be bombed. He didn't mean to be insulting but he was ignorant.

So..basiclly ignorance and arrogance..those are the two things about the United States that manifested in various ways pisses people off.

Anyway, this is way too long. Like I said, I am not anti USA. I am just making observations based on my own experience. You can love something and still be critical. It is allowed and often it helps to make it stronger. Constuctive criticism, if you will.

All I know is that the British Prime Minister is putting his politcal carear on the line to support the United States. I am willing to bet that will be forgotten by most Americans in no time at all and we will hear all about how America always hauls the UK and the world out of messes but never gets anything in return.

Reargdless..this country is paying its respect tomorrow. Remember, the Brits lost a large number of people too..as did many other countries. The mourning will be global...USA will not be alone in any sense.

who cares we are a good country who gives a shit what someone thinks

This kind of arrogance is why people want to fly hijacked airplanes into your tall buildings.

It is would be nice to find an American with some humility.

Good post Sjayne.

Ignorance and arrogance are bad separately, too, but when someone is being BOTH ignorant and arrogant at the same time, it's difficult to try to stay cool with such a person

Example
1. person A doesn't know jack shit about another country (ignorance)
2. he still claims that whatever that another country does or have done is worse than what his own country has achieved (arrogance)

good post? wtf? great post!
i read it, then read it again. haha... i know i sure appreciate it when people spend the time to share their opinions like that.

anyway... on this note:


the largest ever bomb in britain exploded near my parent's home back in 96. ok... it wasn't exactly on the doorstep because it was in the city centre. but it was in the same city. the only thing in the area that survived the blast was the red postal box.

http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/buildings/bombing.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/feat.../15/bomb01.jpg

although it was a smaller scale than the usa attacks, it was still huge and anyone that had been there and seen the damage would tell the same thing. i don't feel it necessary to point it out or talk about it (but as we're on the subject, i will do). maybe because i'm not really british, maybe because there wasn't worldwide interest in the events, maybe because it was quite a while ago - however, the point of the matter is that the explosion hit the same city as my parents and i were living at the time. being so close, it is a lot different than someone that may be from california, letting people know how it feels to have the other side of the country attacked. for that kind of reaction over that distance, it may as well have been 300,000 miles away.

not that forgetting about something is necessarily the best way to deal with things, but it isn't done intentionally. walking down that area of manchester now, you wouldn't even know that anything had happened there.

anyway, the point of this reply is that i could just imagine a tourist in a nearby bar in manchester, handing out their bangles and sharing how it feels to be bombed. :1orglaugh that sounds pretty ignorant - but i'd love to see the reaction on their face when they are told what happened in june '96, right around the corner. :1orglaugh

I remeber Manchester. The main reason is because I moved here in '96 and it was the first time I had ever lived in a country that had been bombed. I remember being in the bath when the news came over the radio and realising for the first time that the IRA was very real.


From my balcony, I can see Canary Warf. I was still livining in the states when it got bombed and had just met my husband. He called me to let me know he was alive. Yet, I hadn't even heard it on the American news. I was a news junkie and a journalism student so if it had been reported I would have known. Plus, I was living in Boston..which often reports more IRA news than the rest of the country and even their media hadn't reported it. So, to get a call out of the blue from someone saying their house just shook from a bomb but that they are still alive is a bit of a shock. It was also a lesson on how little forgien news is reported in the US.

sorry honey. that's a song that europe likes to sing. It's not true.

you mean europe *DID* learn not to appease tyrants? you mean this time they'll understand you stop iraq now instead of later? or are you thinking we should give them poland?
did that work last time? I don't recall.

oh, they were resentfull that after not interfering with europian politics, we had to come win a war for them?
typical.

why, have they forgotten already?
you mean the debt for goods purchased?

No, the debt you paid us for the things you agreed to pay for.
The money WE spent to liberate europe and save the UK you can just call "on the house". :winkwink:

yeah, we went over just to hang out. not fight. wonder how the germans would have treated you if we'd have stayed home?

Perhaps if the UK girls could have kept their legs closed, the saying would have been different. :winkwink:

why? to make the pansy assed europians *feel* good?
we didn't just "fight too" if we had just "fought too" like the rest of europe, you'd be speaking german now.
I suggest you hang around a better class of people. No one I know says that.

Well, I've met a handful of Brits and Aussies who make fools of themselves because they can't hold their liquor but aren't smart enough to know it.
I don't bother thinking about it. I don't care how they act. WTF are you trying to say, all Americans are like your asshole friend?
Like I said, find a better class of people to hang with.

yep, europe is ignorant to the reasons the US *might* be a little arrogant.

Yes, you are anti USA and you've made the observations you chose to make, like the typically ignorant yet oh so UK statement below:

If you listened to ANY, ANY legitimate newscast (do they exist in the UK or is it 100% tabloid news?)
Tony Blair and the UK are NEVER spoken about without being called "staunchest ally" "true friend" "strongest supporter"
but you let your hate chose which observance you want to make.

You know, I am now, always have been, and always will be proud to be an American. I'm not always proud of all my countrymen - some of them just love to show the knowledge of history they gained from Dell, Marvel, and D.C. comics off for all the world to see. As Sjane put it, "that often means that from the perspective of the rest of the world the American public form their opinions with out all of the facts." Americans prefer the cowboy approach - it's either a white hat (good guy) or a black hat (bad guy). Of course, if you disagree, you are doing so because a) you don't know the truth, or b) you are a [pussy, pansy, commie, pinko - you pick].

Its easier to focus on how "we saved Europe" than it is to learn how our isolationism contributed to the convulsions in the 30s that lead to the 2nd World War. It fits right into learning your history from comic books and Time-Life, and a menatality that says "I'm right, you're wrong, and your old man wears combat boots."

Great post, Doggy! :thumbsup

nothing like someone making your point for you.

so, unless I blindly agree with everything that the US does I am Anti American?

Also, the pearl harbor point is recanting a popular opinion over here. They react badly to the suggestion, that was made on this thread as well, that America got into the war because Americans always fight for what is right. Yet, it wasn't a just cause when millions were at threat..only when Americans were bombed.

Debt? Yeah, the debt they had to pay back but which other countries were forgiven?

Hanging out? Well, every soldier isn't fighting all the time.

Keeping your legs shut? Being able to tempt people with food is pretty powerful.

More Americans killed...hell that kind of argument is dislplayed right here in this thread.

Asshole Friend....well firstly he isn't really a friend. I know him, he was here..was rude not to meet up. Either way, I think alot of people in other countries would tell you that that type of attitude amongst american tourists is not unique. When I went on vacation as a kid my folks always told us to be on our best behaviour because we might be the only American someone in the country every met and therefore we will influence their vision of the whole country. In short, when you leave your country you are an ambassador for it regardless if you want to be or not.

"NEVER spoken about without being called "staunchest ally" " - Well firstly I didn't say that wasn't being said now. I said, I am willing to bet it is forgotten. Also, of course it is being said because otherwise it would expose the lack of support from the rest of the world. I am not arguing if they should be supporting or not cause I have mixed opinions of my own. If they didn't mention who the 'staunch ally' was then it would look to the American public that the US was alone.


You did exactly what I said people do. Couldn't just think, hey I disagree or hey they have a different opinion. No, had to be that this is the only opinion that is right and I will shout until you bow to me. But hey, regardless of which free country we live in (US isn't the only one) the good thing is that we can disagree and even clash and it is allowed.

day trippeeeerrrrrr

ban Sjayne for replying with 300 lines !!!!!

Well, now, Sjayne, there were a lot of Americans that thought we should have been in the war a long time before Pearl Harbor., particularly after Edgar R. Murrow (liberal media influence again) reported on the Blitz live from London. Roosevelt did everything in his power to push us that direction, but he was faced with considerable opposition in Congress, particularly the Senate Republicans, who were isolationists.

Not being as arrogant as the descendents of his opponents, he read the Constitution as saying that Congress had to get us into a war. They opposed rearming, they opposed Lend-Lease ... and they quietly faded away (or did an about face that should have embarassed them, but didn't) after 12/7.

oh, don't take Pearl harbor remarks as my own opinions. Sorry, if that got muddled. I was just trying to show what I had observed the opinons of others to be.



Also..sorry about long posts.

Well, I'll tell you what. I would be willing to be that more people in Great Britian would know the day Pearl Harbor was attacked than people in the U.S. would know the day WWII actually started.

There sure isn't. Thanks for proving my point with the rest of your post below.

no, the fact that you choose which facts you'll use to craft a post negative the the US makes you anti american.

ok, then why didn't we just spend ALL of our efforts on japan?
Why did we go to war in europe. please, oh wise one, tell us all why it was in our best interest to spit our forces and send them to the opisite ends of the earth?

oh, so if we don't treat you all equally, you'll throw a hissy fit? typical euro-whine

you really want credit for that brilliant remark?

more bullshit lies.
please produce documentry (not UK fairy tales) of starvation in the UK or women so destitute they traded sex for food. It didn't happen. Again, your anti American LIES betray you.

oh, then all of america believes it. is that what living in the UK teaches you?

well, your folks lied. fact is, they see lots of Americans and like you, choose which story to tell.

since we're right and europe has proven to be a weak partner, I assure you, we as americans don't need to feel we're not alone.


um, yeah honey, then I gave my opinion.

shout? bow to me? you've been living in the UK too long, their inferiority complex is rubbing off on you. I understand that when confronted with the truth, you defensively attack my style.

appearantly, only if I agree with you.

Most likely. However, as they didn't think they would be directly involved it is easy to see why.


btw..journalist of sorts Edgar R. Murrow is one of my heros...liberal or not. His reports on the roof tops of London are amazing even today.

well, there is confusion in the US about this.
did the war start when you of the EU gave hitler poland or do you hide your shame by using a different date?:1orglaugh

You really should have gotten the cliff notes instead of the Sgt. York Comic book. On 9/1/39, Hitler invaded Poland, and 3 days later Britian and France declared war. In 1938 there were negotiations that resulted in the disgrace of Munich, but that was over Checkoslovakia. :eek7

Oh, yeah ... and
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by PornoDoggy
You know, I am now, always have been, and always will be proud to be an American.

You don't think someone as stupid as 12clicks actually reads, do you? TV tells him everything he needs to know. :1orglaugh

checkoslovakia isn't a town in poland? who knew?:1orglaugh

For an answer to the question posed by this thread, see the above.

I am a proud American, arrogant, and I do not know the meaning of humility. If you ran my country down to my face I would stick a flag up your ass and make you sing "Yankee Doodle Dandy".

Dumb fucks, pay close attention. Europe owes the USA its very existence. Forget about saving your ass in the Second World War. Lets talk about the fact that you would all be puppets of the ex Soviet Union, if not for the trillions and trillions of dollars spent by the USA on the arms race against the Soviets, and the World Wide Nuclear umbrella provided by Amercia, that our "friends" in Europe lived under for about fifty years. Literally millions of our boys in the military have had to sacrifice being away from their own homes (and sometimes their lives) to live in your countries and protect your homes. What ever freedom you have or economy you have is owed entirely to the USA. This is a simple fact, so instead of knocking America and Americans, you should be thanking every American you see.

Where are all of you America bashing assholes now. Can't deal with the fucking truth??

hopefully a passenger jet will land in your garden tomorrow morning.

I'm hoping for a nuke. :1orglaugh

Oh man... How come I missed this line "How about the blacks in the US that get stopped without a reason? Are they innocent too?"
Please tell me about blacks in the US and their lives. I am dying to know, you stupid fuck.
BTW I am black american, born in Atlanta and still living here. But maybe your racist cops didnt like the color of my skin when they asked for my ID without any reason. Europe is full of racist pigs.

Pussy fucking comment, but doesn't change the truth.

Another fucking pussy comment, but doesn't change the truth.

I'm gonna wipe my arse with the American flag today and think of you.

HAPPY WORLD TRADE CENTER DAY!

i don't care about the truth. it is kind of a mental disability i have. i developed it by listening to patriotic americans for too long.

Immposible. You will not be able to remove your head. Still cannot dispute the truth, dumb fuck.

You have the mentality of offal. Still cannot dispute the truth.

The truth is: If it wasn't for Europe, the USA wouldn't even exist. After all, you were a European colony before you were the USA, you dickhead.

We wised up and kicked their ass, and have been kicking ass ever since. In your case you would be speaking Japanese, if it were not for the USA. So kiss my ass you dumb undeserving Aussie bastard. What ever you say it still does not change the truth of my statement.

it is almost morning here, don't go away guys. i'm heading down to the american restaurant for breakfast soon.

their child's breakfast meal is great value - coffee, bread, pancakes, syrup, ice cream, bacon, eggs, sausage, noodles, hot dogs, butter, beans, pizza, baked potato, cereals, fruit, cheese, burgers, chicken breast, onions, steak, apples, soup, mushrooms, tomato, fries, orange juice, potato chips and a bowl of sugar.

but don't worry, i'll be back!

Who is this Joe Sixpack clown?
:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh
:321GFY

Shut up bitch and get back in the kitchen before I give you a taste of the back of my hand!

:1orglaugh

You better bring your mother's change back.

Poor little clown JoeSixpack. He has some issues. Nobody loves him everybody is just laughing when they see him. Please can you entertain us for a while little man?

It should be easy to entertain you. It doesn't take much to amuse an idiot.

Oh well. Another nobody from who knows where. Well It seems that net is like a magnet to lots of weird people.

Some asshole with a brain smaller than a Wallaby, calling a superior an idiot. Go out and play with your fellow Aborigines or did they ostracize you too? Still cannot argue with the truth.:321GFY

I bet your name is Cletus. You sound like an inbred hillbilly. :1orglaugh

Oh our clown is from Australia. Strange. I have lots of Australian friends. Even visited that country. Oh well. Every country has its own share of Morons.
Hey Moron, do your parents know that you play with their computer?