Free Trial Payouts-I don't get it... - GoFuckYourself.com

49thParallel · 08-26-2002, 08:38 PM

I recently started to promote one of the high paying "Free Trial" sponsors. This one pays $70 per free trial. $40 for the first month and $20 for the second and $10 for the third...and they pay even if surfer quits before the free trial is over. How is this possible?

I read somewhere that 3 out of 4 surfers will quit before the trial ends. And then the one that stays will stay for an average of 3 to 4 months. So, for 4 trials the payout would be 4 X $70 = $280. And the profit to the sponsor would be 4 months X $50 = $200. So, looks like I make more then the sponsor. Something is wrong... The math works out when a sponsor pays even $40 per trial, but not $70...

KingK7 · 08-26-2002, 08:39 PM

LOL, check out the signup page with this sponsor...

Goonx · 08-26-2002, 08:45 PM

The user gets a free trial to the sponsors site maybe but maybe they forgot to mention (to the user as well) that for his own convenience he also gets a free trial to like 20 other sites which will eventually convert to a $50 per month subscription...

Dildozer · 08-26-2002, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Goonx
The user gets a free trial to the sponsors site maybe but maybe they forgot to mention (to the user as well) that for his own convenience he also gets a free trial to like 20 other sites which will eventually convert to a $50 per month subscription...

chargeback galore

49thParallel · 08-27-2002, 05:11 AM

Yep...I just read the fine print...every "free" membership includes an automatic membership to a $19.95 site....no trial period...I have pulled all links for this sponsor. Since when does being an adult webmaster mean that you also have to be a scamming crook.

.:Frog:. · 08-27-2002, 06:07 AM

are we talking about sexhit?

49thParallel · 08-27-2002, 01:36 PM

Yep, you hit it! Their techniques are not even close to borderline legit...Nowhere on their site does it mention that you are also subscribing for a site that starts immediately..no trial...$19.95 right off the bat. The adult industry does not have room for these types of techniques. Guess I'll stick to promoting sites like AP and NastyPages...2 programs I can actually feel honest about promoting.

Turboface · 08-27-2002, 01:39 PM

I was just think about starting a thread about this very same thing, earlier on today.

DrGuile · 08-27-2002, 01:41 PM

its a 20$ free trial...

a lot of people are doing that now... its what I call the "Babenet Model"

SykkBoy · 08-27-2002, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 49thParallel
Yep...I just read the fine print...every "free" membership includes an automatic membership to a $19.95 site....no trial period...I have pulled all links for this sponsor. Since when does being an adult webmaster mean that you also have to be a scamming crook.

pssst, it's called a crossbill or cross sell....a lot of folks doing it....Silvercash comes to mind immediately....I think PornKings does it as well....all those free avs sites? they do it too...Yahoo even has cross selling with their shopping cart system...

49thParallel · 08-27-2002, 02:04 PM

Others may do it in some form, but SEXHIT is by far the lowest I have seen yet. Even by reading the terms over and over, it still isn't clear that you are also joining a paysite. Here's their disclaimer:

After your 3 day trial has expired, membership will be charged at $USD49.95 per month until membership is cancelled. NudesLive.com is charged at $USD19.95 per month from date of signup. Credit card processing is provided by:

This is the ONLY time Nudeslive is mentioned. And, it's easy to read this and think that this is just a general terms statement...and since you aren't signing up for NudesLive...it doesn't apply to you..

Pretty damn shaddy.

Frank W · 08-27-2002, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by .:Frog:.
are we talking about sexhit?

They are also very spam friendly unfortunately.

RRRED · 08-27-2002, 03:19 PM

You can always earn up to $25.00 per free one day trial through the wegcash Join4free Gold sites with no hidden crap. If the surfer cancels within the one day, you'll still get paid but we are not going to pay you $70.00. The number level out this way for us so that the webmasters can gain the surfers trust, get paid, and shok can still ride around on his 24 carat gold tricycle with no seat.

;)

Trenton · 08-27-2002, 04:36 PM

Dont forget the shave factor. It helps with the chargebacks.

49thParallel · 08-27-2002, 04:54 PM

O.K. I found another sponsor - Pornkings- Porn for a buck. Are they upfront and honest, or does anyone have any horror stories about them as well.

RogerV · 08-27-2002, 05:28 PM

all I can say is we pay

All our sites are a $1 a month trial no bullshit
www.freefreeprogram.com

Give me a call or shoot me an email and I can show you all the webmasters who promote us.
I have never had any complaints on our conversions.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do

we have NO automatic memberships we do have cross sells but that is an option if they choose so.
if they choose not to get the other free trial options they get a membership for $1 for a month.

Frank W · 08-27-2002, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2

pssst, it's called a crossbill or cross sell....a lot of folks doing it....Silvercash comes to mind immediately....I think PornKings does it as well....all those free avs sites? they do it too...Yahoo even has cross selling with their shopping cart system...

It works real well. SexKey was one of the earlier players in the cross sell space. Problem has always been retention but they pump it out so much that the volume pretty much takes care of the retention issues.

49thParallel · 08-28-2002, 05:49 AM

Roger...even your program has a few hidden twists to it. To finish the sign-up procedure, the surfer has no choice but select a second 4 day trial membership. $0.00 for 4 days. But, it's only in the separate terms & conditions that there is a reference to the fact that surfer must cancel one day before end of trial period. So really, trial is only for 3 days. This isn't the indication a surfer would get reading the print on the sign-up page. So, the 4 days free is fradulent...explain to me how when a person needs to cancel within 3 days, that "4 days free" is in anyway anything but a scamming lie.

Can't anyone out there provide enough quality material and depend on skillful-honest marketing to make a living?

I

49thParallel · 08-28-2002, 07:02 AM

If you offer a "straight up and honest" trial program..please spam me. I already use AmateurPages and Nastydollars..these 2 tell it like it is...there's got to be more of these out there.

Shooter · 08-28-2002, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 49thParallel
If you offer a "straight up and honest" trial program..please spam me. I already use AmateurPages and Nastydollars..these 2 tell it like it is...there's got to be more of these out there.

Nasty Dollars pulls the terms trick on you though. It they cancel in the first 12 hours you don't get paid.

49thParallel · 08-28-2002, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shooter

Nasty Dollars pulls the terms trick on you though. It they cancel in the first 12 hours you don't get paid.

That I don't mind...at least this way they are treating the surfer with honesty and respect. And, to be honest, in the 6 months that I have been promoting Nastydollars, I have only had this happen once. So, no, I don't think Nastydollars is pulling the wool over the webmaster's eyes.

Shooter · 08-28-2002, 07:18 AM

Does Nasty Dollars remove sign-ups? I was under the impression they just waited 12 hours to add sign-ups but I don't send them much traffic so I wouldn't really know.

Carol@Pixipay · 08-28-2002, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Roger...even your program has a few hidden twists to it. To finish the sign-up procedure, the surfer has no choice but select a second 4 day trial membership. $0.00 for 4 days. But, it's only in the separate terms & conditions that there is a reference to the fact that surfer must cancel one day before end of trial period. So really, trial is only for 3 days. This isn't the indication a surfer would get reading the print on the sign-up page. So, the 4 days free is fradulent...explain to me how when a person needs to cancel within 3 days, that "4 days free" is in anyway anything but a scamming lie.

I'm not sure where you see the forced four day trial - the cross sells are voluntary, a surfer does not have to accept the cross sells to get into the site and/or complete the join process, as well I am not sure which terms and conditions you are referring to, would you mind telling me where you saw the terms and conditions you mention in your post?

It concerns me that the impression is being given that we are scamming and or lying to surfers as well as webmasters, niether is the case.

I look forward to your reply

Carol

49thParallel · 08-28-2002, 10:00 AM

Carol...last night I signed up for your $1 chubby site to test it out before selling it to my surfers. I declined the first 2 cross sell opportunities. Then when I hit confirm to go ahead with my purchase, this took me to a new screen for a 4 free day trial for fattyfatty. This page did not have an option to deselect or refuse the free trial. Instead, all indications were that I would need to hit the only enter button on the page to complete my purchase of the $1 site. This is what I mean by the forced purchase.

As far as the misleading trial period, here is the paragraph that I am referring to: First on the join page:

Click here to signup for a 4 day No Charge Membership to Adult Flics No Charge Four Day Trial Membership. After 4 days, Membership renews automatically at $36.19 every 1 month.

Here's the terms and conditions: (located on the credit card info page - https://wnu.com/secure/fpost.cgi)
If you purchase a trial subscription, and decide to terminate your trial subscription, you must do so AT LEAST one (1) day prior to the end of the Trial Period and you will not be charged any further. If you do not cancel at least one (1) day prior to the end of the Trial Period, you are agreeing to continue as a regular subscriber upon the terms and conditions for....

As you can see, these 2 conditions are very contradictory. If you can tell me that the Terms and Conditions are WRONG and in fact a person can cancel his/her membership right up until the last minute of the 5 day trial (or whatever the length of the trial may be), then great. I look forward to your reply.

If the T & C are wrong (which would make all the difference in the world) could you clarify when cancellation needs to be received. i.e. Say I took out a 5 day trial membership at 10:00 a.m. on August 21, 2002. What is the latest time and date that the 5 day membership can be cancelled, without incurring a month's subscription billing?

Carol@Pixipay · 08-28-2002, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Carol...last night I signed up for your $1 chubby site to test it out before selling it to my surfers. I declined the first 2 cross sell opportunities. Then when I hit confirm to go ahead with my purchase, this took me to a new screen for a 4 free day trial for fattyfatty. This page did not have an option to deselect or refuse the free trial. Instead, all indications were that I would need to hit the only enter button on the page to complete my purchase of the $1 site. This is what I mean by the forced purchase.

This page contains an additional cross sell and displays after the 1.00 transaction is complete, at this point you are already a member and the confirmation is probably in your inbox already. It may be a touch confusing at this point however it is not required by any means.

I am looking into the terms and conditions you mention, and will post the information as soon as I can

Carol

Braincash Fred · 08-28-2002, 10:24 AM

If you're looking for another story like that visit www.porncash.com

All their business model is base on screwing customers.

They turn happy customer into customer that will never or be really hard to convince to join a paysite again.

In the end, this is killing the business...

RogerV · 08-28-2002, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 49thParallel
Carol...last night I signed up for your $1 chubby site to test it out before selling it to my surfers. I declined the first 2 cross sell opportunities. Then when I hit confirm to go ahead with my purchase, this took me to a new screen for a 4 free day trial for fattyfatty. This page did not have an option to deselect or refuse the free trial. Instead, all indications were that I would need to hit the only enter button on the page to complete my purchase of the $1 site. This is what I mean by the forced purchase.

As far as the misleading trial period, here is the paragraph that I am referring to: First on the join page:

Click here to signup for a 4 day No Charge Membership to Adult Flics No Charge Four Day Trial Membership. After 4 days, Membership renews automatically at $36.19 every 1 month.

Here's the terms and conditions: (located on the credit card info page - https://wnu.com/secure/fpost.cgi)
If you purchase a trial subscription, and decide to terminate your trial subscription, you must do so AT LEAST one (1) day prior to the end of the Trial Period and you will not be charged any further. If you do not cancel at least one (1) day prior to the end of the Trial Period, you are agreeing to continue as a regular subscriber upon the terms and conditions for....

As you can see, these 2 conditions are very contradictory. If you can tell me that the Terms and Conditions are WRONG and in fact a person can cancel his/her membership right up until the last minute of the 5 day trial (or whatever the length of the trial may be), then great. I look forward to your reply.

If the T & C are wrong (which would make all the difference in the world) could you clarify when cancellation needs to be received. i.e. Say I took out a 5 day trial membership at 10:00 a.m. on August 21, 2002. What is the latest time and date that the 5 day membership can be cancelled, without incurring a month's subscription billing?

You did not have to except the cross sells to get your $1 membership
only a certain % of surfers do.
But if you want an up front 100% no cross sale program
there are many out there for you to choose from.
I think your best bet would be to join a rev. share program
or a join program that pays you on an active member.
Which then I wish you much luck with.

We tried that route and most of the webmasters pulled there traffic. because in the long run they were looking for conversions and $$$.

Unfortunetly Most up front programs that are not miss leading in any way what so ever just don't convert. we have tried it all. and we plan on staying in business.

Most things you purchase have fine print in just about everything.
People are very aware of it.

we built a program that converts like 1/95 easy on most traffic
and we are Paying $25 per $1 trial. If your looking to make money
check us out.

YDG · 08-28-2002, 10:45 AM

This is why the adult industry is in the state it is (this and TGP's!). Imagine all these xyzcash programs with their shitty websites scamming the public left right and center just to make a few bucks, and a load of stupid webmasters helping them doing it by promoting their sites.

If everyone realised you dont have a long term business by pissing off your clientele, the industry would be in a much better state than it is today.

I've had so many people tell me "I would not join another adult website as I got scammed last time"

One day we'll stop shooting ourselves in the foot, and instead of thinking about who's paying the the most per signup, say to ourseleves, who's offering the best website.

That is the most important issue.

RogerV · 08-28-2002, 10:57 AM

I do understand your concern but it is an option to get the cross sell and if for some reason they did not notice it and joined with
the cross sells. the surfer gets a confirmation in their email about it and then they can cancel at any time before they get charged.

No Scams! we need to keep our chargebacks down just like everyone else.
We do not have any automatic full Price memberships all our cross sells are a free trial that can be canceled with plenty of time without getting charged.

Please don't confuse the way we do biz with other program tatics.
most of the ones you are refering to have there own Merchant acounts.

If you do not understand email me. [email protected]

we have great members sections and sites we do not scam anyone. if anything the surfers are much more savvy and they try to scam us first.

RogerV · 08-28-2002, 11:10 AM

good luck with who ever you decide to choose.

~R

Rory · 08-28-2002, 11:57 AM

It sounds like you are saying that if you 'fine print' join a member to a site they never wanted to see with a free trial that converts into a full membership thats OK, but if you fine print them and immediatly charge them thats bad. Your logic seems a bit flawed to me, to an average person it sounds like you are totally legit because you give the consumer a few days to figure out he has been scammed. Iam not trying to tell you how to run your business, but at least admit that you are scamming as opposed to trying to say that giving them advanced warning of your scam somehow makes it not a scam.

Rory

49thParallel · 08-28-2002, 12:15 PM

Roger and Carol...I still do not see an explanation of the contradicting x days free trials and the opposing conditions in the T & C's. And since you choose not to address this in any of your replies, I am lead to believe that this is indeed a scam and completely fraudulent in nature.

Again, plese clarify beyond, "all our cross sells are a free trial that can be canceled with plenty of time without getting charged".
When it says 5 days free, does the surfer really have 5 days to cancel, or is the opposing condition in the T & C the correct practice...which says that the surfer must cancel at least 1 day prior.

Playing the numbers game...accepting the chargebacks because the number of surfers that don't know any better will pay the bills is dishonest and weak.

I for one am perfectly comfortable with making a living in the Adult Industry. I am not, nor should anyone be comfortable with what amounts to boiler room techniques and what is quite honestly theft.

Snake Doctor · 08-28-2002, 01:25 PM

I read an article written by someone from Sex Hit awhile back that explained their business model.
They average 2 rebills per free join and they charge $50 a month. They collect $100 and pay the webmaster $70.
The reason they're rebills are so high is that they DO NOT TAKE TGP TRAFFIC! Read the TOS very carefully. Sex Hit $70 proggie is a good one if you're a webmaster with a lot of SE or AVS high quality traffic, and you want your $$ now instead of waiting for a partnership program to pay you on the rebills.

They have other programs with different payouts for webmasters with lower quality traffic.

RogerV · 08-28-2002, 01:41 PM

I'm just curious if anyone of you who are complaining run your own sites? I'm not slamming anyone just curious?
do you guys know what the average retention is?
Do you know how many people cancel the first day?

I am am looking into the terms and conditions with epoch right now.

As far as the 5 day free trial goes You get 5 days free. I think the terms are confussing we will get it resolved and we are looking into it right now.
we just started cross sells to compete with the other top programs out there. Which we have been having much success with.

We are not scamming because they have an option to get the free cross sells and they have the option to cancel those free trials with ease. every free trial they choose to except they will recieve an email confirmation of it. So they can cancel.
we do not automatically bill them a full membership.

there are a few people who do a full membership offer with no trials like bangbus. I don't know there numbers so I cannot coment on them. It sounds like they are doing well with that model because of there exclusivecontent.
each program has its own formula to profit.

Just choose what fits you best.

If you would like to contact me all my info is on Pornkings.com

Good luck

RogerV · 08-28-2002, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 49thParallel
Roger and Carol...I still do not see an explanation of the contradicting x days free trials and the opposing conditions in the T & C's. And since you choose not to address this in any of your replies, I am lead to believe that this is indeed a scam and completely fraudulent in nature.

Again, plese clarify beyond, "all our cross sells are a free trial that can be canceled with plenty of time without getting charged".
When it says 5 days free, does the surfer really have 5 days to cancel, or is the opposing condition in the T & C the correct practice...which says that the surfer must cancel at least 1 day prior.

Playing the numbers game...accepting the chargebacks because the number of surfers that don't know any better will pay the bills is dishonest and weak.

I for one am perfectly comfortable with making a living in the Adult Industry. I am not, nor should anyone be comfortable with what amounts to boiler room techniques and what is quite honestly theft.

you were correct and the terms are incorrect however epoch is fixing this problem now.

Now that we have resolved your concern I hope you choose to
give us a shot.

And thank you for bringing this to our attention.

SykkBoy · 08-28-2002, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RogerV
I'm just curious if anyone of you who are complaining run your own sites? I'm not slamming anyone just curious?
do you guys know what the average retention is?
Do you know how many people cancel the first day?

I am am looking into the terms and conditions with epoch right now.

As far as the 5 day free trial goes You get 5 days free. I think the terms are confussing and we will get it resolved and we are looking into it.
we just started cross sells to compete with the other top programs out there. Which we have been having much success with.

We are not scamming because they have an option to get the free cross sells and they have the option to cancel those free trials with ease. every free trial they choose to except they will recieve an email confirmation of it. So they can cancel.
we do not automatically bill them a full membership.

there are a few people who do a full membership offer with no trials like bangbus. I don't know there numbers so I cannot coment on them. It sounds like they are doing well with that model because of there exclusivecontent.
each program has its own formula to profit.

Just choose what fits you best.

If you would like to contact me all my info is on Pornkings.com

Good luck

well said Roger....and if you were to say "we're going to lower payouts" webmasters would run away screaming like they were on fire....if you come out with a lower paying program, they'll ignore it....if you do a site without trials, most will ignore it..

the biggest problem I have seen over the last few years isn't shaving, tgp's, corssbilling, etc. it's that most affiliates expectations are too high and they have forgotten to pre-sell..even sponsors...most of them brag more about "see it cheap" on their tours than "see this high quality" Both affiliates and sponsors seem to have gotten lazy in the selling department and rely more on cheaping it out....

there is also a problem where webmasters forget to think like surfers....it's hard for a program to balance what will "sell" to webmasters and what will sell to surfers...

49thParallel · 08-28-2002, 02:02 PM

Roger..I wish you had said this earlier...the part about.."As far as the 5 day free trial goes You get 5 days free". This is what I asked from the beginning and yes, this does make a world of difference. I do not have a problem with cross selling (as long as the terms & conditions for the cross sells are also clearly displayed)...the problem was with what appeared to be a misleading contradiction between the larger print and the small print in the terms and conditions.

Yes, your sites do clearly indicate that the programs will renew if a cancellation is not received. But, as mentioned above, with the contradictions in big and small type, it appeared that you were tellling people that they had 5 days, when really they had 4 days and then you started billing them. Now that we have clarified the cancellation time "discreprencies". I do not have a problem with your business model.

Sexhit on the other hand confirmed in an email that they do in fact bill $19.95 immediately for their "free trial" ...so for SEXHIT, no retraction is forthcoming...their business model is stilled based on theft and deceit.

quiet · 08-28-2002, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RogerV
Unfortunetly Most up front programs that are not miss leading in any way what so ever just don't convert. we have tried it all. and we plan on staying in business.

hmm.

RogerV · 08-28-2002, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet

hmm.

What I ment was most sites that don't have a great promotion
like our $1 a month trial don't do well. We built a program that converts. with a great promotion for surfers.
freefreeprogram.com

If you want your basic program we have eroticcash.com
which is a paid 3 day trial and a 1 free year membership.

Lexxx · 08-28-2002, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 49thParallel
I recently started to promote one of the high paying "Free Trial" sponsors. This one pays $70 per free trial. $40 for the first month and $20 for the second and $10 for the third...and they pay even if surfer quits before the free trial is over. How is this possible?

I read somewhere that 3 out of 4 surfers will quit before the trial ends. And then the one that stays will stay for an average of 3 to 4 months. So, for 4 trials the payout would be 4 X $70 = $280. And the profit to the sponsor would be 4 months X $50 = $200. So, looks like I make more then the sponsor. Something is wrong... The math works out when a sponsor pays even $40 per trial, but not $70...

Very eazy:

[1] The surfer gets billed $20 right away + a hold is placed on his cc for $50 for later.
[2] They process in-house so they don't give refunds even if surfer poops in his pants from rage...
[3] Their processors are located offshore so they will bill the shit outta surfers.
[4] No TGP or CJ traffic - so people convert!

But nonetheless who gives a flying fuck what people get billed! $70 per signup suits me!

Cash · 08-28-2002, 02:38 PM

Bigbagsofcash has the same payout like sexhit, they are also Australian based, probably associated. UniversalPass also has confusing terms related to free ... but not free

49thParallel, you said you wanted honest sponsors, the first 2 in my signature do not have hidden charges. One of them uses entrance and exit console where you don't get paid, that's how they can pay $40/trial, but that's all.

49thParallel · 08-28-2002, 03:58 PM

Cash..thanks..I will look into these sponsors.

Lexxx...have you been following this thread?...thankfully the general feeling of most that have posted would not be one of "fuck the surfers", as would appear to be the sentiment you harbor. Read the entire thread...perhaps then you will understand why these dishonest practices are the same as outright theft.

Here's a similar scenario..Say you took advantage of a free offer for a product at your local store, say even a food sample at your local grocery..you walk out the door...then when you check your bank statement you find out that the store had installed an automatic credit card card scanner which charged you a $49 fee when you walked out the door for some service that you did not even know you had received nor wanted...same thing as SEXHIT's practices...won't you be steaming mad...it's a scam and it's theft..don't try and justify it.

SykkBoy · 08-28-2002, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 49thParallel

Here's a similar scenario..Say you took advantage of a free offer for a product at your local store, say even a food sample at your local grocery..you walk out the door...then when you check your bank statement you find out that the store had installed an automatic credit card card scanner which charged you a $49 fee when you walked out the door for some service that you did not even know you had received nor wanted...same thing as SEXHIT's practices...won't you be steaming mad...it's a scam and it's theft..don't try and justify it.

what if the same store said, upon leaving you will be charged the $49? Also, you're talking about a free sample...wrong scenario...

but have you ever gotten a free magazine subscription? They give you a couple issues for free then bill you for the amount due...have you ever reserved a hotel room (free reservation) and not shown up only for them to have billed your card for 1 day? How well are these things disclosed?

gothweb · 08-28-2002, 04:42 PM

I don't get it.

I offer non-rebilling options. I don't do free trials. There are no hidden clauses or even remotely deceptive tactics to any of my membership options. I haven't even considered such tactics...

Yet, I make my living off of around 1,000 hits a day. I have loyal members, they rebill with rebilling memberships, they buy multiple non-rebilling memberships, they sign up for 6 months at a time.

Why do the big programs, with their high production values and professional staff, not to mention thousands of affiliates, have such a hard time making money with plain and simple membership?

I guess what I am saying is this: Offering free trials, or making $70 payouts, or whatever, is your choice. You could be making good money, even if you hadn't upped the bar. Tactics like those have made it that much harder for people like me to market our sites, and our affiliate programs. Further, it is *not* the only way to make money. It's just a way to make *more*... but can it last?

SykkBoy · 08-28-2002, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb
I don't get it.

I offer non-rebilling options. I don't do free trials. There are no hidden clauses or even remotely deceptive tactics to any of my membership options. I haven't even considered such tactics...

Yet, I make my living off of around 1,000 hits a day. I have loyal members, they rebill with rebilling memberships, they buy multiple non-rebilling memberships, they sign up for 6 months at a time.

Why do the big programs, with their high production values and professional staff, not to mention thousands of affiliates, have such a hard time making money with plain and simple membership?

I guess what I am saying is this: Offering free trials, or making $70 payouts, or whatever, is your choice. You could be making good money, even if you hadn't upped the bar. Tactics like those have made it that much harder for people like me to market our sites, and our affiliate programs. Further, it is *not* the only way to make money. It's just a way to make *more*... but can it last?

notice that did you? webmasters only care about that big per signup money...

but, here is the reason they have more problems with "plain and simple" is that when you open per signup, the cheaters crawl out of the woodwork and "newbie mistakes" happen, you deal with a lot more TGP traffic (most TGP webmasters only go for the per signup programs) TGP traffic is mostly "educated" it doesn't matter if you have every nude picture ever shot, most have no intentions of EVER going past the trial membership. With per signup, you're also generally getting more signups, but this can also mean more problems like higher chargeback rates, more surfer fraud, etc.

RogerV · 08-28-2002, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2

notice that did you? webmasters only care about that big per signup money...

but, here is the reason they have more problems with "plain and simple" is that when you open per signup, the cheaters crawl out of the woodwork and "newbie mistakes" happen, you deal with a lot more TGP traffic (most TGP webmasters only go for the per signup programs) TGP traffic is mostly "educated" it doesn't matter if you have every nude picture ever shot, most have no intentions of EVER going past the trial membership. With per signup, you're also generally getting more signups, but this can also mean more problems like higher chargeback rates, more surfer fraud, etc.

Well said.

The bottom line is there is only a few ways to get new traffic if you don't have a good hook and mouse trap.
In the long run you will be eating the cheese. If you don't understand the average surfer.

Surfers are much smarter now. unless you have great type-in traffic or search engine traffic.
your getting traffic that know's what their doing.

We have a few good type-ins like erotica.com, wetdreams.com chubby.com etc. but it still doesn't matter cause type in has dropped and people go to search engines now and find all the free stuff
which needs to be converted. or something like that

we even have a site thats 6.95 a month and they still cancel
trust me it has alot of content more than you will ever be able to get thru. so you tell me whats wrong?
www.megaporn.com great site no bullshit

gothweb · 08-28-2002, 05:45 PM

I'm confused. Are you guys saying that the standard megasite methods are good, or that they are bad?

49thParallel · 08-28-2002, 05:45 PM

The bottom line is...if you can't make an HONEST buck...then you should just give up!!

SykkBoy · 08-28-2002, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 49thParallel
The bottom line is...if you can't make an HONEST buck...then you should just give up!!

somebody just missed a whole section of the thread....

well YOU tell ME...why do you send to a per signup over a revshare? Granted it's much easieer to open a revshare program and there are a bunch of shitty ones....if you prefer per signup, what is it that makes you select who you send your traffic to? 99% of webmasters only care about one thing: "How much are you paying me?"

everything is about the marketing....

I am far from a "fuck the customer" type...I say "fuck the freeloader" but that something entirely different...

Do you have any idea how much Hilton makes from charging people one room night for cancellations? Do you think their shareholders care how much of the hotel's income is derived from that? No, all they want to know: "How much are you making me?"

49thParallel · 08-28-2002, 06:00 PM

Cut it how you want..some of us make a very decent living by treating our customers with respect and honesty...the rest of you can continue to kill the industry and ensure that the words "I am an adult webmaster" need to be whispered...

08-26-2002, 08:38 PM	#1
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Free Trial Payouts-I don't get it... I recently started to promote one of the high paying "Free Trial" sponsors. This one pays $70 per free trial. $40 for the first month and $20 for the second and $10 for the third...and they pay even if surfer quits before the free trial is over. How is this possible? I read somewhere that 3 out of 4 surfers will quit before the trial ends. And then the one that stays will stay for an average of 3 to 4 months. So, for 4 trials the payout would be 4 X $70 = $280. And the profit to the sponsor would be 4 months X $50 = $200. So, looks like I make more then the sponsor. Something is wrong... The math works out when a sponsor pays even $40 per trial, but not $70...

08-27-2002, 06:07 AM	#6
.:Frog:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ~ C A N A D A ~ Posts: 2,123	are we talking about sexhit? __________________ <a href="http://www.pornopayouts.com/?rid=pp3076">PornoPayouts</a> Tons of Hosted Galleries.

08-27-2002, 01:36 PM	#7
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Yep, you hit it! Their techniques are not even close to borderline legit...Nowhere on their site does it mention that you are also subscribing for a site that starts immediately..no trial...$19.95 right off the bat. The adult industry does not have room for these types of techniques. Guess I'll stick to promoting sites like AP and NastyPages...2 programs I can actually feel honest about promoting. Last edited by 49thParallel; 08-27-2002 at 02:05 PM..

08-27-2002, 01:39 PM	#8
Turboface Back in Black Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 9,976	I was just think about starting a thread about this very same thing, earlier on today. __________________ Search Engine Optimization Services for Adult Sites

08-27-2002, 01:41 PM	#9
DrGuile Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 2,025	its a 20$ free trial... a lot of people are doing that now... its what I call the "Babenet Model" __________________ LiveBucks / Privatefeeds - Giving you money since 1999 Up to 50% Commission! 25% Webmaster Referal Powered by Gamma

08-26-2002, 08:39 PM	#2
KingK7 Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 6,372	LOL, check out the signup page with this sponsor...

08-26-2002, 08:45 PM	#3
Goonx Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,048	The user gets a free trial to the sponsors site maybe but maybe they forgot to mention (to the user as well) that for his own convenience he also gets a free trial to like 20 other sites which will eventually convert to a $50 per month subscription...

08-27-2002, 05:11 AM	#5
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Yep...I just read the fine print...every "free" membership includes an automatic membership to a $19.95 site....no trial period...I have pulled all links for this sponsor. Since when does being an adult webmaster mean that you also have to be a scamming crook.

08-27-2002, 02:04 PM	#11
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Others may do it in some form, but SEXHIT is by far the lowest I have seen yet. Even by reading the terms over and over, it still isn't clear that you are also joining a paysite. Here's their disclaimer: After your 3 day trial has expired, membership will be charged at $USD49.95 per month until membership is cancelled. NudesLive.com is charged at $USD19.95 per month from date of signup. Credit card processing is provided by: This is the ONLY time Nudeslive is mentioned. And, it's easy to read this and think that this is just a general terms statement...and since you aren't signing up for NudesLive...it doesn't apply to you.. Pretty damn shaddy.

08-27-2002, 03:19 PM	#13
RRRED Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: WA Posts: 6,754	You can always earn up to $25.00 per free one day trial through the wegcash Join4free Gold sites with no hidden crap. If the surfer cancels within the one day, you'll still get paid but we are not going to pay you $70.00. The number level out this way for us so that the webmasters can gain the surfers trust, get paid, and shok can still ride around on his 24 carat gold tricycle with no seat. ;)

08-27-2002, 04:36 PM	#14
Trenton Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Albany Posts: 471	Dont forget the shave factor. It helps with the chargebacks.

08-27-2002, 04:54 PM	#15
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	O.K. I found another sponsor - Pornkings- Porn for a buck. Are they upfront and honest, or does anyone have any horror stories about them as well.

08-27-2002, 05:28 PM	#16
RogerV Banned! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,591	all I can say is we pay All our sites are a $1 a month trial no bullshit www.freefreeprogram.com Give me a call or shoot me an email and I can show you all the webmasters who promote us. I have never had any complaints on our conversions. Good luck in whatever you decide to do we have NO automatic memberships we do have cross sells but that is an option if they choose so. if they choose not to get the other free trial options they get a membership for $1 for a month. Last edited by RogerV; 08-27-2002 at 05:41 PM..

08-28-2002, 05:49 AM	#18
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Roger...even your program has a few hidden twists to it. To finish the sign-up procedure, the surfer has no choice but select a second 4 day trial membership. $0.00 for 4 days. But, it's only in the separate terms & conditions that there is a reference to the fact that surfer must cancel one day before end of trial period. So really, trial is only for 3 days. This isn't the indication a surfer would get reading the print on the sign-up page. So, the 4 days free is fradulent...explain to me how when a person needs to cancel within 3 days, that "4 days free" is in anyway anything but a scamming lie. Can't anyone out there provide enough quality material and depend on skillful-honest marketing to make a living? I Last edited by 49thParallel; 08-28-2002 at 05:52 AM..

08-28-2002, 07:02 AM	#19
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	If you offer a "straight up and honest" trial program..please spam me. I already use AmateurPages and Nastydollars..these 2 tell it like it is...there's got to be more of these out there.

08-28-2002, 07:18 AM	#22
Shooter Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 2,842	Does Nasty Dollars remove sign-ups? I was under the impression they just waited 12 hours to add sign-ups but I don't send them much traffic so I wouldn't really know.

08-28-2002, 10:00 AM	#24
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Carol...last night I signed up for your $1 chubby site to test it out before selling it to my surfers. I declined the first 2 cross sell opportunities. Then when I hit confirm to go ahead with my purchase, this took me to a new screen for a 4 free day trial for fattyfatty. This page did not have an option to deselect or refuse the free trial. Instead, all indications were that I would need to hit the only enter button on the page to complete my purchase of the $1 site. This is what I mean by the forced purchase. As far as the misleading trial period, here is the paragraph that I am referring to: First on the join page: Click here to signup for a 4 day No Charge Membership to Adult Flics No Charge Four Day Trial Membership. After 4 days, Membership renews automatically at $36.19 every 1 month. Here's the terms and conditions: (located on the credit card info page - https://wnu.com/secure/fpost.cgi) If you purchase a trial subscription, and decide to terminate your trial subscription, you must do so AT LEAST one (1) day prior to the end of the Trial Period and you will not be charged any further. If you do not cancel at least one (1) day prior to the end of the Trial Period, you are agreeing to continue as a regular subscriber upon the terms and conditions for.... As you can see, these 2 conditions are very contradictory. If you can tell me that the Terms and Conditions are WRONG and in fact a person can cancel his/her membership right up until the last minute of the 5 day trial (or whatever the length of the trial may be), then great. I look forward to your reply. If the T & C are wrong (which would make all the difference in the world) could you clarify when cancellation needs to be received. i.e. Say I took out a 5 day trial membership at 10:00 a.m. on August 21, 2002. What is the latest time and date that the 5 day membership can be cancelled, without incurring a month's subscription billing? Last edited by 49thParallel; 08-28-2002 at 10:11 AM..

08-28-2002, 10:24 AM	#26
Braincash Fred Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,589	If you're looking for another story like that visit www.porncash.com All their business model is base on screwing customers. They turn happy customer into customer that will never or be really hard to convince to join a paysite again. In the end, this is killing the business...

08-28-2002, 10:45 AM	#28
YDG Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Dordogne Posts: 1,614	This is why the adult industry is in the state it is (this and TGP's!). Imagine all these xyzcash programs with their shitty websites scamming the public left right and center just to make a few bucks, and a load of stupid webmasters helping them doing it by promoting their sites. If everyone realised you dont have a long term business by pissing off your clientele, the industry would be in a much better state than it is today. I've had so many people tell me "I would not join another adult website as I got scammed last time" One day we'll stop shooting ourselves in the foot, and instead of thinking about who's paying the the most per signup, say to ourseleves, who's offering the best website. That is the most important issue. __________________ Promote the webs Highest Rated Teen Paysite TeenDreams.com. #1 Teen Paysite at almost every review site on the internet. Over 4,500 FHG's and 100's of Hosted Flash Movies and FLV dump Tool.

08-28-2002, 10:57 AM	#29
RogerV Banned! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,591	I do understand your concern but it is an option to get the cross sell and if for some reason they did not notice it and joined with the cross sells. the surfer gets a confirmation in their email about it and then they can cancel at any time before they get charged. No Scams! we need to keep our chargebacks down just like everyone else. We do not have any automatic full Price memberships all our cross sells are a free trial that can be canceled with plenty of time without getting charged. Please don't confuse the way we do biz with other program tatics. most of the ones you are refering to have there own Merchant acounts. If you do not understand email me. [email protected] we have great members sections and sites we do not scam anyone. if anything the surfers are much more savvy and they try to scam us first. Last edited by RogerV; 08-28-2002 at 11:13 AM..

08-28-2002, 11:10 AM	#30
RogerV Banned! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,591	good luck with who ever you decide to choose. ~R Last edited by RogerV; 08-28-2002 at 11:13 AM..

08-28-2002, 11:57 AM	#31
Rory Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: I Love Ixtapa, Mexico ö Posts: 616	It sounds like you are saying that if you 'fine print' join a member to a site they never wanted to see with a free trial that converts into a full membership thats OK, but if you fine print them and immediatly charge them thats bad. Your logic seems a bit flawed to me, to an average person it sounds like you are totally legit because you give the consumer a few days to figure out he has been scammed. Iam not trying to tell you how to run your business, but at least admit that you are scamming as opposed to trying to say that giving them advanced warning of your scam somehow makes it not a scam. Rory

08-28-2002, 12:15 PM	#32
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Roger and Carol...I still do not see an explanation of the contradicting x days free trials and the opposing conditions in the T & C's. And since you choose not to address this in any of your replies, I am lead to believe that this is indeed a scam and completely fraudulent in nature. Again, plese clarify beyond, "all our cross sells are a free trial that can be canceled with plenty of time without getting charged". When it says 5 days free, does the surfer really have 5 days to cancel, or is the opposing condition in the T & C the correct practice...which says that the surfer must cancel at least 1 day prior. Playing the numbers game...accepting the chargebacks because the number of surfers that don't know any better will pay the bills is dishonest and weak. I for one am perfectly comfortable with making a living in the Adult Industry. I am not, nor should anyone be comfortable with what amounts to boiler room techniques and what is quite honestly theft. Last edited by 49thParallel; 08-28-2002 at 12:41 PM..

08-28-2002, 01:25 PM	#33
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	I read an article written by someone from Sex Hit awhile back that explained their business model. They average 2 rebills per free join and they charge $50 a month. They collect $100 and pay the webmaster $70. The reason they're rebills are so high is that they DO NOT TAKE TGP TRAFFIC! Read the TOS very carefully. Sex Hit $70 proggie is a good one if you're a webmaster with a lot of SE or AVS high quality traffic, and you want your $$ now instead of waiting for a partnership program to pay you on the rebills. They have other programs with different payouts for webmasters with lower quality traffic.

08-28-2002, 01:41 PM	#34
RogerV Banned! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,591	I'm just curious if anyone of you who are complaining run your own sites? I'm not slamming anyone just curious? do you guys know what the average retention is? Do you know how many people cancel the first day? I am am looking into the terms and conditions with epoch right now. As far as the 5 day free trial goes You get 5 days free. I think the terms are confussing we will get it resolved and we are looking into it right now. we just started cross sells to compete with the other top programs out there. Which we have been having much success with. We are not scamming because they have an option to get the free cross sells and they have the option to cancel those free trials with ease. every free trial they choose to except they will recieve an email confirmation of it. So they can cancel. we do not automatically bill them a full membership. there are a few people who do a full membership offer with no trials like bangbus. I don't know there numbers so I cannot coment on them. It sounds like they are doing well with that model because of there exclusivecontent. each program has its own formula to profit. Just choose what fits you best. If you would like to contact me all my info is on Pornkings.com Good luck Last edited by RogerV; 08-28-2002 at 01:59 PM..

08-28-2002, 02:02 PM	#37
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Roger..I wish you had said this earlier...the part about.."As far as the 5 day free trial goes You get 5 days free". This is what I asked from the beginning and yes, this does make a world of difference. I do not have a problem with cross selling (as long as the terms & conditions for the cross sells are also clearly displayed)...the problem was with what appeared to be a misleading contradiction between the larger print and the small print in the terms and conditions. Yes, your sites do clearly indicate that the programs will renew if a cancellation is not received. But, as mentioned above, with the contradictions in big and small type, it appeared that you were tellling people that they had 5 days, when really they had 4 days and then you started billing them. Now that we have clarified the cancellation time "discreprencies". I do not have a problem with your business model. Sexhit on the other hand confirmed in an email that they do in fact bill $19.95 immediately for their "free trial" ...so for SEXHIT, no retraction is forthcoming...their business model is stilled based on theft and deceit. Last edited by 49thParallel; 08-28-2002 at 02:16 PM..

08-28-2002, 02:38 PM	#41
Cash Click on my TCG signature Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 20,825	Bigbagsofcash has the same payout like sexhit, they are also Australian based, probably associated. UniversalPass also has confusing terms related to free ... but not free 49thParallel, you said you wanted honest sponsors, the first 2 in my signature do not have hidden charges. One of them uses entrance and exit console where you don't get paid, that's how they can pay $40/trial, but that's all. __________________ $9.95/month for 15000 GB bandwidth monthly, unlimited (sub)domains and MySQL5, PHP4/5, 500 GB disk storage! ; use any of these invitation codes: 216263692101; 408636009193; 846090586647; my ICQ 30160426!

08-28-2002, 03:58 PM	#42
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Cash..thanks..I will look into these sponsors. Lexxx...have you been following this thread?...thankfully the general feeling of most that have posted would not be one of "fuck the surfers", as would appear to be the sentiment you harbor. Read the entire thread...perhaps then you will understand why these dishonest practices are the same as outright theft. Here's a similar scenario..Say you took advantage of a free offer for a product at your local store, say even a food sample at your local grocery..you walk out the door...then when you check your bank statement you find out that the store had installed an automatic credit card card scanner which charged you a $49 fee when you walked out the door for some service that you did not even know you had received nor wanted...same thing as SEXHIT's practices...won't you be steaming mad...it's a scam and it's theft..don't try and justify it. Last edited by 49thParallel; 08-28-2002 at 04:12 PM..

08-28-2002, 04:42 PM	#44
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	I don't get it. I offer non-rebilling options. I don't do free trials. There are no hidden clauses or even remotely deceptive tactics to any of my membership options. I haven't even considered such tactics... Yet, I make my living off of around 1,000 hits a day. I have loyal members, they rebill with rebilling memberships, they buy multiple non-rebilling memberships, they sign up for 6 months at a time. Why do the big programs, with their high production values and professional staff, not to mention thousands of affiliates, have such a hard time making money with plain and simple membership? I guess what I am saying is this: Offering free trials, or making $70 payouts, or whatever, is your choice. You could be making good money, even if you hadn't upped the bar. Tactics like those have made it that much harder for people like me to market our sites, and our affiliate programs. Further, it is not the only way to make money. It's just a way to make more... but can it last? __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

08-28-2002, 05:45 PM	#47
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	I'm confused. Are you guys saying that the standard megasite methods are good, or that they are bad? __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

08-28-2002, 06:00 PM	#50
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Cut it how you want..some of us make a very decent living by treating our customers with respect and honesty...the rest of you can continue to kill the industry and ensure that the words "I am an adult webmaster" need to be whispered... Last edited by 49thParallel; 08-28-2002 at 06:59 PM..