woj

50.........

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JoshyJ

Let's spin this thread abit, Who here thinks GWB done a good job in Iraq?

Antonio

if you bash my beloved beautiful US of A one more time I'll fuck you up, you African midgets !!!!!!!

hunterfilms

That should be the flag the gop waves!

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borked

Not really - there just has to be a balnace between captilism (essential for country wealth) and socialism (essential for society's wealth) and the government needs to be involved for both to succeed. Why does pure capitilsm have to be achieved for society to exceed? Look at the state that England is in because of trying to implement this - total capitilistic disarray. Sure, there are the big hitters thriving. There are the entrepreneurs doing well, but communities have been killed off completely (by and large) because no limits were set.

You have to set limits, saying "ok grow, the sky is the limit, but you can't touch x/y/z because that would suppress or eliminate local growth in a/b/c"

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pocketkangaroo

As if the GOP is the only one who supports corporate interests. Both sides are crooks, the difference being that they each support different companies/groups.

Tempest

Naja-ram

you wanna a piece of me ?

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Paul Markham

So you think that never buying content from me is a threat.?

Where did I say that "The American people are stupid and fat etc"

Maybe you think questioning GWB's policy in Iraq is in fact saying "The American people are stupid and fat etc" but the rest of it see it as what it is.

Take your business and stick it up your arse. I need people with a bit more brains than you buying content. Now that is a direct insult to you and not to other US citizens.

WOW I just lost $0.000 business.

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Webby

When you were in the diplomatic corp Paul - how were things?



PS Agree with your decision to reliquish all these valuable dollars on principle :-)

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Paul Markham

If lying and betraying one's principles cost me some business then so be it. I'm not doing so badly.

Splums principles is to get his business you have to keep your mouth shut whn the US fucks up. Maybe he likes the US fucking up and wants the US to continue, don't know.

But glad he has some principles he sticks to.

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Sexxxy Sites

Still with the daily babble and lies asswipe.

Webby

Jeeez .. It stalks again - You got to be raving mental Sexy Pants

Did someone let you out to stalk again?

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lambpie

im from the UK, been to the states a lot.. and most of europe.. i can honestly say i was more compfortable in the states.. the american folks really welcomed us, us brits arent always very popular in europe.. too much bad history!

Magix

why i hate should americans ? they are people who like porn, and this is why i'm in adult industry, because americans like porn and buy it and i get money from it .....

ofcourse where is a lot of fucked up things about US, but also a lot good things..

whant to see most fucked up life, go to US, you'll see most dumbest people in the world...and fatest too ....

whant to see most good life, go to US, you'll see smartest people in the world ( ofcourse most of them are from japan and eastern european countries ) and some of the richiest people in the world....

and one more fact about US... a lot of US dwellers think they live in most Free country in the world, in fact it is opposite , by statistics US is one of most regulated countries, only Cuba, North Korea and some countries are more regulated then US....

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Ross

I fucking love America. So much so infact I'm gonna move there! You guys can bitch about it as much as you like but the quality of things in USA and pricing of things is much better than in 75% of the world. The 25% where pricing is better I don't wanna live there.

Bring on the USA

Twisted Dave

Just because I live somewhere doesn't mean I like it.

The USA is FULL of fucking idiots. But hold on ... SO is the rest of the world. Fuck... the UK (where I live) has some fucking horrible parts, with some of the fucking most idiotic people in the world. Just because I live here, doesn't mean I can say it's perfect. And someone putting the flag up saying they don't give a fuck about what other people say, is just blind patriotism.

There... my two cents and I'll tell you what, probably one of the most non biased replies on here ;)

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Lykos

It's preety normal for some board....
yes some things are over rated,and some are true..
but this is just forum,so it shouldn't bother u.

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Manowar

I don't mind them, let them spew it and get it out of their system

scottybuzz

I LOVE AMERICA BECAUSE THATS WHERE MY CHEQUES COME FROM!!!

but they do some very bad things around the world. Some of which needs to be done though.

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Paul Markham

It's amazing when you think about it for a few minutes.

We are commenting on Americans invading a country on the thinnest of excuses, involving as many countries as they possibly could, messing with the worlds economy and putting the lives of many non Americans at risk. While a few people on GFY think no one should say anything.

If you want us to say nothing invade Ohio and you might find us a lot less critical.

Why I have a right to comment on Bush, the US in Iraq and any other thing I feel like.

IT'S FREE WORLD.
Freedom of speech goes beyond me saying what you want to hear.
I own property in the US.
I pay taxes in the US.
I have a US bank account.
I make my living in the world economy.
I have a relative who has fought in Iraq, Afghanistan and will return there soon.
As a citizen of the world I have a duty to speak out for injustice.
As a traveller I'm at risk and the situation in the Middle East directly effects my safety.

Now then there are Americans without the wit and intelligence to enter into and compete with honest debate. For these their argument is STFU, pity they can't contribute more.

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He did and he is

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justsexxx

That's because they all get drunk before 1am, are loud, and the ladies are not very pretty either


(hey just kidding hehe)

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justsexxx

Hehe you are funny, or stupid :D

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as far as the US government is concerned the old sayings always come to mind with me, like "its better the devil you know". basically when europe was the main powers we invaded countries like it was our god given right to rule the world, same with the uk.

the US is about the all mighty dollar and thats what motivates them, but they're government cant invade the world without a very good reason because they also claim to be the land of the free and only wanting to spread democracy etc etc.

when china becomes the worlds super power, which will porbably happen in my life time, do you think they will just sit in china and chill? every other country in the world who has become the super power has tried to rule the world (even up and coming nations like germany under the nazis etc), so the chances are china will do the same.

so basically, we can all moan about the US government, but lets face it, i'd rather have them invading iraq for oil than china invading us because they can.

nekrom

The only thing I can hold against America, is you banned me vegemite.

-N

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Quagmire

You've said a mouthful there, and it is all sensible and logical.

I think the problem that occurs a lot of the time is people say "those Americans invaded..." and bitch and complain about what they are doing wrong when in fact its the American administration that was doing it.

I don't like the current administration down there, but I do like Americans.

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Paul Markham

I don't even blame the current administration. I blame Bush and a few cronies around plus some of the ass lickers who refused to stand up to him. Which includes Blair.

Have a lot of friends from the US, love going there, love doing business with them (even with the dollar in the toilet) just hate the invasion of Iraq.

For the record I would even choose to live there, just not anywhere it was possible to make a living. Love the mid West.

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TeaseumGirls

So i guess we should leave iran alone and n.korea... fuck it let the world deal with it. Leave saddam in power and etc... I aint gonna say oil wasnt a huge part, of course it is... All wars are based on economics and the game of resources... Either you got it, or you don't! If it wasn't us, it would be china, india, who's economys are now needing oil just as badly to keep up with the growth....

why would we spend BILLIONS / Trillions to help better a country for free. Me as a taxpayer fuck that, when i say wee, I say we = TAXPAYERS! If i am paying ($$$/Lives) I want something in return. Shaving a dollar off every gallon of gas works... World War II paid for itself and then some in business dealings and etc... now is oil & helping the people worth lives well thats another arquement in itself...

In the end, I would have still liked bush over kerry or gore in a time of war.
I know we were getting a war type president rather have him fighting for me than kerry or gore. Gore is busy improving the internet he invented lol

When Bush is out of office there will be relief on all sides in hope of something better but sadly the way our election system is rigged we never really get the BEST people to choose from. Tweedle Dee (Bush) or Tweedle Dumb (Kerry / Gore) Your fucked either way!

I still think Colin Powell would have been a good president. Financially conservative, Socially in the middle!

Webby

Your conclusion may be correct - "let the world deal with it". The US never was elected to act on behalf of any other nation. It's prob more than fair to say the current admin had an invasion of Iraq on the table before even reaching office and subsequently lying to the UN and pressing for a resolution.

The current status of Iraq is a mess and reaching the introduction of the "final realization" where the US govt will, whether it likes it or not, sit down with "insurgents" and attempt to negotiate a peace. (Noticed this is now part of options being considered to stem the attacks - we are slowly getting there, but a long way to go)

In total, the US has done extensive damage by raising the "anti" against other nations - which started with the "Axis of Evil" and the nations quoted in that statement have taken defensive steps already.

The US has no "foreign policy" other than wars, threats, sanctions, warnings - diplomatic skills are non-existant. That, together with elements of greed, arrogance and generally playing smartass, have placed the US in the bed it has chosen to sleep in now. Agree - it's not a comfortable bed - and probably going to get far less comfortable before any change.

The obvious division over politics within the US is very unhealthy and damaging - it offers no benefit to the country. A qualified leader may have a chance of shifting/removing that division - the current admin have demonstrated no such ability.

Overall... the problem is not with the world. It's a problem with the US where the world is watching and waiting. Depending on the elected path, we will see an increase in aggressive action towards to US or a cooling of the current overall scenario to a point of irrelevance. It is up to the US to take the action it considers appropriate and be willing to accept the consequences/benefits of that decision. It's not a game of hardball and the next few years will be crucial.

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TeaseumGirls

So what is the UN? The UN is basically the United States no one else supports it like us. China and Russia don't count for shit... UN might as well be a referee between to fighters who respect the ref but if they don't ref is just a "figure" who watches shit go down. And when the world crys help and United States says GFY you bitch when we try and help, and bitch when we don't... Whats one to do? go beg china, russia, india and etc...

Its fucked no matter how you look at it..

TeaseumGirls

As far as the world dealing with it.... World Wouldn't have done shit... plain and simple.

Webby

The UN, least as far as the US is concerned, is a punching bag. An organization which in any way represents the international community will, by it's nature, become an obstacle course of any countries with a different agenda to that of the international community. By the way, it's worth noting the US has been the country which, by far, has placed objections on the table at the UN. Prob one of the most recent "obstacle courses" was the bickering and delay on a ceasefire in Israel/Palestine which extended that even by more weeks than necessary. Why? The US was not ready to stop the Israeli invasion and agree to the resolution on the table. Speaks volumes.

China and Russia count for shit do they? Interesting to learn new stuff - I never knew that. Both are substantial nations and both are members of the UN Security Council.

Sure the UN is a referee, they serve a purpose in many areas and at many levels. They are also as effective as their members countries. When the UN calls for troops in whatever parts of the world, this has always been a struggle in assembling those troops - it's not exactly thru a lack of effort on the part of the UN. As opposed to the UN sitting back and watching "shit go down", it may be more relevant to address the member country failure in supporting the UN. It is the membership who are watching "shit go down" - the UN is their "club" - they are all members of the international community.

Looking back in history, I can't recall the world crying for US help. What date was that? Also can't recall much begging for help from the US, China, Russia or India. Must have also missed that day.

Bottom line - what has the UN or any other nation got to do with the problems and adventures of the US?? The US admin chose to follow a certain path and made a bed to lie in. It is not to the benefit of other countries that it selected that path. Despite that, little doubts support would be forthcoming from other nations if these was justifiable action required leading to the resolution of a crisis or whatever. The unfortunate scenario here is that the US has lost so much credibility - it's a damage limitation exercise and the sooner that starts the better, both for US folks and the rest of the world.

BTW.. Re your comment on Powell - inclined to agree. Least he has a clue of what war means and prob would command more respect all round than the current occupant of the White House.

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Webby

Sorry you are so disappointed in the world

Perhaps it may be an idea to clean your own backyard up before trying to address the world as a whole - thanks.

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s9ann0

that kind of terrorist shit realy upsets me

Dagwolf

That reminds me, I've got some raking to do. I love Autumn.

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borked

Webby,

Have a read of Rebuilding America's Defences: Strategy, Forces and Resources
For a New Century

It dates to just before 9/11, but it outlines well what the Bush administration already had planned. 9/11 was simply a red carpet.

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Webby

Damn... keep forgetting it's autumn in some parts of the world Dagwolf

Every day seems much that same here (Costa Rica) - the temp is around 72 constantly - it's easy to forget seasons. But... techically it's winter and more rain at the moment, but never cold.

Enjoy the raking - it's a kinda therapy

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cmj1981

As an American I have an enormous sense of pride in my country and I just try and ignore all the U.S. hating bullshit. When people in other countries talk shit about the U.S. it doesn't really bother me, but what does bother me is when other Americans piss on our President and Piss on our country while we are at war. There is nothing wrong with disagreement or debate, but to make outrageous statements that deliberately fuel the enemies propaganda machine is shameful. I also, think its equally shameful for those in the British press to say what they say about there country and Tony Blair. The way I see it if your an American and you think that America is an evil country and George Bush is a horrible person then feel free to move to France. Even as I write this there is someone coming into this country illegally who would be glad to take your place.

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lol, thas quiet a high opinion of the US you have there teaseum. a big part of why different people from different parts of the world see things differently is because of thieir nationality, stupidity etc, but its also the news they watch and read. and the news generally gives people the information in which they base their views.

for example the same story in 3 different news reports would go something like this....

-------
Al Jazeera: US soldiers massacred over 50 civilians today after attacking, killing and arresting even more civilians in their own homes as part of their "war on terror".
-----
BBC News: US Soldiers have been accused of massacring iraqi civilians after a dawn raid on houses thought to be used by insurgents. The US arrested 20 suspected insurgents before getting into a fire fight after the raids. it is thought civilians were caught up in the crossfire but accusations have been made that US soldiers did not distinguish between insurgents and civilians. it has been reported that over 50 people died in the resulting firefight, many of them civilians.
-----
FOX News: US soldiers successfully arrested 20 insurgents today in dawn raids on houses used by insurgents. US soldiers were attacked after the raids in which they returned fire and killed a reportedly 50 further insurgents. there has been an unsubstantiated report that some civilians may have been caught up in the firefight, but a whitehouse spokesman has said the people killed were insurgents disguised as civilians.
--------

obviously if 3 people got together after waching 1 report each they would all have different views on what happened. try watching different countries news reports the next time something like this happens and see for yourself

woj

100.......,..

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OG LennyT

I say let Canada take care of the Middle East, eh?

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Kimo

I know daddy, its a real problem.

The problem is because all of the people who hate America, and Americans dont hate us because of how stupid or naive we are, or even because Truman dropped 2 atomic bombs to end a war that could have been ended with the same stipulations without the bomb, and they dont hate us also because of Trumans attempt at atomic diplomacy, they dont hate us for exploiting the natural resources of 3rd world countries, or having an unofficial overseas empire. They dont even hate us for winning wars by bombing civilian areas.


They hate America because they hate freedom. They hate freedom because they dont want freedom for themselves, or for anyone else. They are pissed at America because jesus loves America and all of her legal citizens more then anyplace and anyone else in the whole world.

They hate America because America is beautiful and clean, and we all know that cleanliness is next to godliness.

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Samir_Nagheenanajar

I love america !!!!

Twisted Dave

Have you lost your mind or are you being sarcastic Kimo ;) ? :D hehe...

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Webby

Intersting stuff borked! And much in line with other papers such as the Pax Americana concept and contributed to by individuals who are now part of the current admin staff (eg Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz et al).

One comment that stood out - (before Young George was dumped in as a tenant in the White House) - and made by Rice, - "US troops are trained to kill and that's what they should be doing". (Yea - had to check this a few times cos just did not believe she said that - and it stands up and it's in context).

OK, Condi is only one person and her views may not represent the overall - but suspect that was the general aura and intention. Basically we need to get into war games and conflict - and where we can show a magical resolution and take the lead. That paper in your link appears to be going along the same path.

Little doubts Iraq was on the table prior to election time - along with a few more countries. You may remember at the start of the first term of office, George was going nowhere, rapidly sinking in polls, - then 9/11. There was masses of support and sympathy for the US at that time. George did stand up, but uttered a pile of cowboy rhetoric with no substance which pretty much started his bad PR and questioned his brain capacity. At the same time, there were rare excellent PR "happenings" - one was the footage of him with a Fire Chief at ground zero - that, among a few more helped pull US public support for him. But, he then pressed off on another avenue and pursued an invasion with Iraq - which was mostly likely, the intention from the start where he could play the role of Commander-in-Chief and defend the US against evil. (He's obviously useless in most other roles - eg economics or "nation constructing").

Only me, but have little doubts this admin know exactly what their aims and agenda is - and that has little to do with enhancing the US as a country. Whether by design or error of judgement, they now have multiple hot spots to address - tho none of them appear to have the simplistic "remedy" scenarios descibed in the link paper. They have all become a problem and causing ripples. Iraq is now a mess and this has eventually been admitted (it's not just a "group of local thugs" as Rumsfeld once tried to claim at the start). Here's a current "status report" of news pieces with talk of a "fresh look" at that situation..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6073504.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6074182.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6075424.stm

Prediction... we will see "insurgent groups" sitting at the table with the US and both parties trying to find a remedy with the aim of cutting down attacks - and the US finding an exit route from Iraq. The sooner the better

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Webby

I'm sure Kimo is just oozing with sarcasm - to the point it's flooding the floor where he sits

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